Trading down from 1 would be miraculous, and then wasting that by taking an undersized center would be the most because jaguars thing ever.

Kevin Mawae was only 6'4" 289 lbs. and was a 7 time First Team All Pro and an 8 time Pro Bower and a Hall of Famer. 

Dermontti Dawson measured under 6'2" and only 272 lbs. at the Combine. He was a 6 time First Team All Pro, a 7 time Pro Bowler and a Hall of Famer.

Mike Webster was drafted as a 6'1" 255 lb. Center and was a 7 time First Team All Pro, a 9 time Pro Bowler and a Hall of Famer. 

You don't need to be a behemoth to play Center in the NFL. Linderbaum is listed at 6'3" 290 lbs. That is hardly undersized. He's bigger than Dawson and Webster and is basically the same size as Mawae.

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Trading down from 1 would be miraculous, and then wasting that by taking an undersized center would be the most because jaguars thing ever.

Kevin Mawae was only 6'4" 289 lbs. and was a 7 time First Team All Pro and an 8 time Pro Bower and a Hall of Famer. 

Dermontti Dawson measured under 6'2" and only 272 lbs. at the Combine. He was a 6 time First Team All Pro, a 7 time Pro Bowler and a Hall of Famer.

Mike Webster was drafted as a 6'1" 255 lb. Center and was a 7 time First Team All Pro, a 9 time Pro Bowler and a Hall of Famer. 

You don't need to be a behemoth to play Center in the NFL. Linderbaum is listed at 6'3" 290 lbs. That is hardly undersized. He's bigger than Dawson and Webster and is basically the same size as Mawae.

For me personally, I have no problem with his size.  I think he will be an excellent center and would love to have him.  I just don't like taking a center in the top half of the first round.  I think centers drop in the draft.  Case in point, the three players you mentioned were taken in the second round, second round and fifth round.  If we look at Jaguar's history, Brad Meester was a late second round pick.  Linder, who I think is a good center when healthy, was a late 3rd round pick.  The best team in Jaguars history was the 1999 team which had a 14-2 record.  They had a 5th rounder starting at center.  To be clear, I'm not saying Linderbaum will drop to the second or that we are guaranteed a hall of famer by waiting, but I think it is not uncommon to find a good center in the 2nd, 3rd or 4th round.   If we have a top 10 pick, I'm highly biased in favor of taking a premium position that doesn't usually fall in the draft.

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Kevin Mawae was only 6'4" 289 lbs. and was a 7 time First Team All Pro and an 8 time Pro Bower and a Hall of Famer. 

Dermontti Dawson measured under 6'2" and only 272 lbs. at the Combine. He was a 6 time First Team All Pro, a 7 time Pro Bowler and a Hall of Famer.

Mike Webster was drafted as a 6'1" 255 lb. Center and was a 7 time First Team All Pro, a 9 time Pro Bowler and a Hall of Famer. 

You don't need to be a behemoth to play Center in the NFL. Linderbaum is listed at 6'3" 290 lbs. That is hardly undersized. He's bigger than Dawson and Webster and is basically the same size as Mawae.

For me personally, I have no problem with his size.  I think he will be an excellent center and would love to have him.  I just don't like taking a center in the top half of the first round.  I think centers drop in the draft.  Case in point, the three players you mentioned were taken in the second round, second round and fifth round.  If we look at Jaguar's history, Brad Meester was a late second round pick.  Linder, who I think is a good center when healthy, was a late 3rd round pick.  The best team in Jaguars history was the 1999 team which had a 14-2 record.  They had a fifth rounder starting at center.  To be clear, I'm not saying Linderbaum will drop to the second or that we are guaranteed a hall of famer by waiting, but I think it is not uncommon to find a good center in the 2nd, 3rd or 4th round.   If we have a top 10 pick, I'm highly biased in favor of taking a premium position that doesn't usually fall in the draft.

I would normally agree with you, but I think Linderbaum is just that good. I would be perfectly fine taking him in the top half of the first.

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Pardon me, but you're an idiot with your 'burner account' accusations.  These guys have been here for years and you show up a month ago a make ridiculous accusations.  Of course, that probably makes ne a 'burner account' now.

Maybe it's because you have this weird fascination with Bevell and you're like the ONLY ONE?

  Nah...that can't be it.

Maybe you should mind your own business, you idiot.

If you don't want bystanders in your business, why are you not shifting to PMs?

How long before you start blocking everyone? That seems to be the modus operandi these days when people start calling others out on their baloney.

As was asked previously, I too am interested in the association that makes you a message board tourist. I can relate, somewhat, in that the first coach my alma mater had that got us to win (Jim Grobe) got a much higher profile job at a P5 school (Wake Forest), and I suddenly cared how Wake did. Now I didn't go to wakeboard.com and start posting puff pieces in his honor, but I did want to see them (and him) succeed.

I'm suspecting some association with Westmar. Sorry to hear the school is shuttered.

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I am not impressed by Neal at all. He gets beat way too much. It's just that the Alabama QB was so good, he bailed Neal out. As far as Ekwonu, he is still the #1 OG on my board. Whether he can be an OT IMO, depends on what his official measurements are. If he is truly 6'4" or over, he'll be my #1 OT, but if he is even a tad under 6'4" I'm keeping him at OG. In any case, I'm taking the BAP at #1 and that is either Hutchinson or Thibodeaux, no exceptions.

Given that Spielman likes to trade back on draft picks, what about if we traded back a little and got someone like Tyler Linderbaum who could play OG or center, and then some more players after that? That would give us some prime beef up front right away, as well as a future option for center.

I like the idea of getting Hutchinson, but I also like the thought of bulking up the line and grabbing some extra picks.

Trouble is, who is going to trade up?
Who are they trading for?
Why don't we want to darft that same player?

I'd love to trade, but it looks to be a buyer's market this year.

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Maybe you should mind your own business, you idiot.

If you don't want bystanders in your business, why are you not shifting to PMs?

How long before you start blocking everyone? That seems to be the modus operandi these days when people start calling others out on their baloney.

As was asked previously, I too am interested in the association that makes you a message board tourist. I can relate, somewhat, in that the first coach my alma mater had that got us to win (Jim Grobe) got a much higher profile job at a P5 school (Wake Forest), and I suddenly cared how Wake did. Now I didn't go to wakeboard.com and start posting puff pieces in his honor, but I did want to see them (and him) succeed.

I'm suspecting some association with Westmar. Sorry to hear the school is shuttered.

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Given that Spielman likes to trade back on draft picks, what about if we traded back a little and got someone like Tyler Linderbaum who could play OG or center, and then some more players after that? That would give us some prime beef up front right away, as well as a future option for center.

I like the idea of getting Hutchinson, but I also like the thought of bulking up the line and grabbing some extra picks.

Trouble is, who is going to trade up?
Who are they trading for?
Why don't we want to darft that same player?

I'd love to trade, but it looks to be a buyer's market this year.

No reason to shift to PMs and I rarely block anyone. As of late, just been responding to other prick's selfish attacks. 
I guess Westmar ran a mean West Coast Spread back in the day, lol.

There very may still be a hype train for that No. 1 pick once FA plays out. Especially if DeShaun Watson becomes unavvailable via a trade.

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Maybe you should mind your own business, you idiot.

If you don't want bystanders in your business, why are you not shifting to PMs?

How long before you start blocking everyone? That seems to be the modus operandi these days when people start calling others out on their baloney.

As was asked previously, I too am interested in the association that makes you a message board tourist. I can relate, somewhat, in that the first coach my alma mater had that got us to win (Jim Grobe) got a much higher profile job at a P5 school (Wake Forest), and I suddenly cared how Wake did. Now I didn't go to wakeboard.com and start posting puff pieces in his honor, but I did want to see them (and him) succeed.

I'm suspecting some association with Westmar. Sorry to hear the school is shuttered.

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Given that Spielman likes to trade back on draft picks, what about if we traded back a little and got someone like Tyler Linderbaum who could play OG or center, and then some more players after that? That would give us some prime beef up front right away, as well as a future option for center.

I like the idea of getting Hutchinson, but I also like the thought of bulking up the line and grabbing some extra picks.

Trouble is, who is going to trade up?
Who are they trading for?
Why don't we want to darft that same player?

I'd love to trade, but it looks to be a buyer's market this year.

The question of who will trade up is a good one - it sounds like Spielman is a good salesman for draft swapping, so it would up to him to see what he could do.

As of now, if someone traded for the #1 spot it would be for one of the edge rushers or an OT as those are the presumptive first picks. And I'd love to get any one of those guys - I'm just thinking of all the different needs we have, and wondering if getting more picks might have greater value for us than getting the top pick. 

It's all theoretical at this point - what they do with Cam and who they get in free agency will drive a lot of this. 

For me, we're in a good place. We can keep the #1 pick and build from the trenches as Pederson said - get a tackle or an edge rusher. Or, maybe they can trade and dig out more picks to fill more holes. The more I think about this, the more optimistic I am - especially if (and I say IF) we do hire Spielman and put a muzzle on Mr. Torn ACL.

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Kevin Mawae was only 6'4" 289 lbs. and was a 7 time First Team All Pro and an 8 time Pro Bower and a Hall of Famer. 

Dermontti Dawson measured under 6'2" and only 272 lbs. at the Combine. He was a 6 time First Team All Pro, a 7 time Pro Bowler and a Hall of Famer.

Mike Webster was drafted as a 6'1" 255 lb. Center and was a 7 time First Team All Pro, a 9 time Pro Bowler and a Hall of Famer. 

You don't need to be a behemoth to play Center in the NFL. Linderbaum is listed at 6'3" 290 lbs. That is hardly undersized. He's bigger than Dawson and Webster and is basically the same size as Mawae.

For me personally, I have no problem with his size.  I think he will be an excellent center and would love to have him.  I just don't like taking a center in the top half of the first round.  I think centers drop in the draft.  Case in point, the three players you mentioned were taken in the second round, second round and fifth round.  If we look at Jaguar's history, Brad Meester was a late second round pick.  Linder, who I think is a good center when healthy, was a late 3rd round pick.  The best team in Jaguars history was the 1999 team which had a 14-2 record.  They had a 5th rounder starting at center.  To be clear, I'm not saying Linderbaum will drop to the second or that we are guaranteed a hall of famer by waiting, but I think it is not uncommon to find a good center in the 2nd, 3rd or 4th round.   If we have a top 10 pick, I'm highly biased in favor of taking a premium position that doesn't usually fall in the draft.

I also really like Nick Ford of Utah. He can probably had somewhere in the 5th round. He's got a nasty streak that I like and he has started every position on the O-Line. He's been first team all-PAC-12 the last 2 years running. He started 11 games at Center last season and 3 at LG. He could come in and play OG until Linder leaves (he has 1 year left on his deal) and then move to Center.

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Trading down from 1 would be miraculous, and then wasting that by taking an undersized center would be the most because jaguars thing ever.

Kevin Mawae was only 6'4" 289 lbs. and was a 7 time First Team All Pro and an 8 time Pro Bower and a Hall of Famer. 

Dermontti Dawson measured under 6'2" and only 272 lbs. at the Combine. He was a 6 time First Team All Pro, a 7 time Pro Bowler and a Hall of Famer.

Mike Webster was drafted as a 6'1" 255 lb. Center and was a 7 time First Team All Pro, a 9 time Pro Bowler and a Hall of Famer. 

You don't need to be a behemoth to play Center in the NFL. Linderbaum is listed at 6'3" 290 lbs. That is hardly undersized. He's bigger than Dawson and Webster and is basically the same size as Mawae.

You can't compare people from multiple eras ago size wise. That's just silly. Everyone is bigger and stronger and faster now.

You could have said the person that he is almost always comped to in Jason Kelce. They are similar size. But now you are drafting one of the least valuable positions with a top 10 pick and hoping that he is an outlier physically. That's an extremely unwise decision considering what else would be on the board at the time.

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Kevin Mawae was only 6'4" 289 lbs. and was a 7 time First Team All Pro and an 8 time Pro Bower and a Hall of Famer. 

Dermontti Dawson measured under 6'2" and only 272 lbs. at the Combine. He was a 6 time First Team All Pro, a 7 time Pro Bowler and a Hall of Famer.

Mike Webster was drafted as a 6'1" 255 lb. Center and was a 7 time First Team All Pro, a 9 time Pro Bowler and a Hall of Famer. 

You don't need to be a behemoth to play Center in the NFL. Linderbaum is listed at 6'3" 290 lbs. That is hardly undersized. He's bigger than Dawson and Webster and is basically the same size as Mawae.

You can't compare people from multiple eras ago size wise. That's just silly. Everyone is bigger and stronger and faster now.

You could have said the person that he is almost always comped to in Jason Kelce. They are similar size. But now you are drafting one of the least valuable positions with a top 10 pick and hoping that he is an outlier physically. That's an extremely unwise decision considering what else would be on the board at the time.

Center one of the least valuable positions? Are you crazy? They are in charge of getting all the blocking schemes straight for the entire O-Line. One could argue that outside of LT, Center is the most important position on the O-Line.

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You can't compare people from multiple eras ago size wise. That's just silly. Everyone is bigger and stronger and faster now.

You could have said the person that he is almost always comped to in Jason Kelce. They are similar size. But now you are drafting one of the least valuable positions with a top 10 pick and hoping that he is an outlier physically. That's an extremely unwise decision considering what else would be on the board at the time.

Center one of the least valuable positions? Are you crazy? They are in charge of getting all the blocking schemes straight for the entire O-Line. One could argue that outside of LT, Center is the most important position on the O-Line.

Lol ok even if I granted that (which I don't RT is far more important), that still makes it less important than everything except for OG and RB (with TE and off ball LB debateable).

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Center one of the least valuable positions? Are you crazy? They are in charge of getting all the blocking schemes straight for the entire O-Line. One could argue that outside of LT, Center is the most important position on the O-Line.

Lol ok even if I granted that (which I don't RT is far more important), that still makes it less important than everything except for OG and RB (with TE and off ball LB debateable).

So you would advocate for taking a position player over BAP?

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So you would advocate for taking a position player over BAP?

He would have to be BAP alone in his tier for me to take him, which he won't be.

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So you would advocate for taking a position player over BAP?

He would have to be BAP alone in his tier for me to take him, which he won't be.

IMO, he is much better than Landon Dickerson, Josh Myers or Creed Humphrey and those were the top 3 Centers in last year's draft.

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He would have to be BAP alone in his tier for me to take him, which he won't be.

IMO, he is much better than Landon Dickerson, Josh Myers or Creed Humphrey and those were the top 3 Centers in last year's draft.

I wouldn't argue if we were talking about him going in the 20s or something, maybe even late teens. Top 10-15 is just wild considering who else will be up there.

For example, no way in hell I'm taking Linderbaum over Jermaine Johnson.

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IMO, he is much better than Landon Dickerson, Josh Myers or Creed Humphrey and those were the top 3 Centers in last year's draft.

I wouldn't argue if we were talking about him going in the 20s or something, maybe even late teens. Top 10-15 is just wild considering who else will be up there.

For example, no way in hell I'm taking Linderbaum over Jermaine Johnson.

I am. I am taking Linderbaum over Johnson. Without question. Linderbaum has consistently played well at his position. Not only does he fit a need he's easily BAP between these two.

Johnson had one big year of production at FSU after being "meh" at Georgia in the SEC for two years. No different than Hutchinson or Thibodeaux. I still like Binotto a little bit more in this mix. As well as Ebiketie.

He's all of a sudden on everybody's radar because he beat up on an offensive line group during practice all week during the senior bowl [something a lot of defensive lineman did that week] and he didn't play in the game.

If he's there at pick 33? Sure. If I trade down from 1 and land a deal with Atlanta, New York [Giants] Washington or Philadelphia? I am going C, OT or even WR before considering Johnson. And that's based on BAP still. Not even need based. There's too much value that perfectly fits needs in these trade down scenarios for this team that puts Johnson on the board at a lower value.

I think he's lower than Philips and Rousseau that came out of Miami last year to be honest.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

I like Johnson but yeah, I'm not taking him over Linderbaum.  I think Linderbaum is a future All Pro at C

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I wouldn't argue if we were talking about him going in the 20s or something, maybe even late teens. Top 10-15 is just wild considering who else will be up there.

For example, no way in hell I'm taking Linderbaum over Jermaine Johnson.

I am. I am taking Linderbaum over Johnson. Without question. Linderbaum has consistently played well at his position. Not only does he fit a need he's easily BAP between these two.

Johnson had one big year of production at FSU after being "meh" at Georgia in the SEC for two years. No different than Hutchinson or Thibodeaux. I still like Binotto a little bit more in this mix. As well as Ebiketie.

He's all of a sudden on everybody's radar because he beat up on an offensive line group during practice all week during the senior bowl [something a lot of defensive lineman did that week] and he didn't play in the game.

If he's there at pick 33? Sure. If I trade down from 1 and land a deal with Atlanta, New York [Giants] Washington or Philadelphia? I am going C, OT or even WR before considering Johnson.  And that's based on BAP still. Not even need based. There's too much value that perfectly fits needs in these trade down scenarios for this team that puts Johnson on the board at a lower value.

I think he's lower than Philips and Rousseau that came out of Miami last year to be honest.

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Agreed.

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This is what happens when your best/most loved players of all time (minus Jimmy) have been RBs and olineman.

If Johnson is just a good not even great EDGE he's more valuable than an all pro C. And I think Johnson will be better than just good, and the odds Linderbaum is an all pro is small.

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This is what happens when your best/most loved players of all time (minus Jimmy) have been RBs and olineman.

If Johnson is just a good not even great EDGE he's more valuable than an all pro C. And I think Johnson will be better than just good, and the odds Linderbaum is an all pro is small.

I still think Stroud, Henderson, Brackens, Payne, Walker and Meier were some all time greats on the defensive side of the football.

Also, a little crazy to me you would take a "good" pass rusher over an all pro caliber Center. As often as Linder has been hurt.

We need to get younger and healthier at that position. In a trade down scenario you have to consider Linderbaum. He's one of the best players in this draft. He'll excel in the NFL. Talent starts to fall off heavily at that position after Linderbaum is off the board.

There's still ample pass rushers that are "good" to be had in RD2 and RD3. I know it won't happen. But, how crazy would it be if they swapped 1 with the Giants for 5 and 7 or the Eagles for 15 and 16? Pederson believes in building through the trenches?

[BLEEP]. There you go. Get you Ekwonu and Karlaftis or Linderbaum and Johnson. Would be a perfect opening night IMHO.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

Linder has graded as a top tier center most years, he gets hurt most years, and then Shatley comes in and we barely notice a difference. Decent at center is all you need. Give me just good at EDGE and decent at center allllll day over elite at center and decent at EDGE. Not even close.

And again, I don't grant that Johnson will be only good and Linderbaum will be elite.

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