FBT, why are you always trying to take personal shots at TMD?

 

It seems to happen in just about every thread you both are in. Never just good conversation, but arguments. All the time.

 

I don't get much internet over here so I'm not gonna type more but even if you don't like the guy at least respect him. Don't dishonor the admin title that you hold.

 

It's kind of amusing watching FBT agreeing with TMD in such a way as to suggest that he's arguing violently with him. Force of habit, and an inability to hold to his own oft-repeated mantra about arguing with idiots.

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It's kind of amusing watching FBT agreeing with TMD in such a way as to suggest that he's arguing violently with him. Force of habit, and an inability to hold to his own oft-repeated mantra about arguing with idiots.

The bickering between the two has gone on for years. It's part of the board experience at this point.

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Can't agree with that.  Bortles is better than Henne -- yes.  But there's no reason to put a limit on when he should come out.  If he's ready before mid-season, then there's no reason to wait that long, unless everything else isn't ready.

 

A head coach usually goes with the players that give him the best option to win, but if you have a brand new V8 engine and an old used 4 cyl. which one do you want in the race... not so fast your car's frame is damaged while you have new peices (Luke Joekel, Beadles) you also have some unproven (Mike Brewster, etc) do you really want to risk damaging that brand new V8 especially with damaged tires (all the WRs are injured right now except for Hurns and Brown). 


I think if Bortles continues to improve during preseason and if the WRs (cecil and Robinson come back healthy by week 1) there will be tons of pressure on Gus to start Bortles over Henne (especially if Henne continues to look well like Henne).


I honestly dont see Bortles starting week 1 (even though this preseason game was impressive), because of Dave & Gus strong commitment to him not starting this season and it being so early in the season... now a few games into the regular season if the team is losing primarily to Henne's poor performance I see the switch being made at that point.

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The bickering between the two has gone on for years. It's part of the board experience at this point.

 

Oh, I know, but it's not a good part of the experience. FBT's better when he's talking football than when he's throwing out ad hominems, but he's too easily trolled. TMD gets his kicks from getting reactions to his schtick, reinforcing his belief that this somehow makes him smarter than the people responding to him, and FBT just feeds that.

 

I honestly dont see Bortles starting week 1 (even though this preseason game was impressive), because of Dave & Gus strong commitment to him not starting this season and it being so early in the season... now a few games into the regular season if the team is losing primarily to Henne's poor performance I see the switch being made at that point.

 

But that's the point - if Bortles is being held back because it's beneficial to his development to do so, then throwing him in should have nothing to do with Henne's performance. If that's what's going on, then in that situation either we continue to suck it up with Henne at the helm or we declare Stanzi the starter (or hey, trade for Gabbert again). What we're being told is that Bortles is on his own timeline, and will go into the lineup when he's ready, not when the team needs him.

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I don't necessarily want Bortles to start, and I really don't think he will. But I think that those that think it is completely set in stone are wrong. If he lights it up in pre-season...consistently...I could see him starting.


Russel Wilson was expected to sit behind Flynn.....

or just look at Blaine Gabbert and David Garrard, in that case both the GM & HC (although different ones than now) both said the plan was to have Blaine sit all year too...

 

What if Henne gets injured?  Do you really expect Ricky to go in instead of Blake?

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Oh, I know, but it's not a good part of the experience. FBT's better when he's talking football than when he's throwing out ad hominems, but he's too easily trolled. TMD gets his kicks from getting reactions to his schtick, reinforcing his belief that this somehow makes him smarter than the people responding to him, and FBT just feeds that.

 


 

But that's the point - if Bortles is being held back because it's beneficial to his development to do so, then throwing him in should have nothing to do with Henne's performance. If that's what's going on, then in that situation either we continue to suck it up with Henne at the helm or we declare Stanzi the starter (or hey, trade for Gabbert again). What we're being told is that Bortles is on his own timeline, and will go into the lineup when he's ready, not when the team needs him.

 

Of course if the starter is playing so poorly that he hurts the team then you go with the best back up, but you cant honestly beleive that would ever be Ricky over Blake do you?

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I'm afraid of him starting behind our O-Line. 

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I'm afraid of him starting behind our O-Line. 

 

I'm not.  He played well behind guys who mostly won't even be here after final cuts and did fine.  

 

And to the car person, you haven't raced before.  If the V8 gives you the best chance to win, then you go with the V8.  You don't dial the car in for the 4cyl and put the 8 in after.  You put the 8 in and fix the problems it causes after the fact so the car is built for the bigger motor.

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http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000...and-losers

NFL has Bortles as one of the week 1 preseason winners... as link above indicates...

 

 Bortles is doing his best to force the organization to rethink its stance that the No. 3 overall pick will sit behind Chad Henne for an entire season. The rookie looked comfortable under pressure,took chances down the field and showed good chemistry with his receivers while completing 7-of-11 passes for 117 yards versus the Bucs. We still believe Bortles will take over the reins by Thanksgiving.

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My thoughts on Blake that don't deserve it's own thread. Here are my thoughts on Blake Bortles. There's some things that separate Blake from Blaine, and I'll be making excuses for Blake and Blaine. I say this because I think the excuses I make for Blaine can be an absolute positive for Blake

1. Blake is just better than Blaine

Bortles is simply more talented than Gabbert who although had the prototypical NFL size like Bortles, Bortles has shown that he can utilize his size, speed, and arm talent more.

2. Bortles has more talent around him

This is where I make an excuse for Gabbert that bodes well for Blake's success. A lot of times, Gabbert had Jason Hill and Mike Thomas as his #1 and #2 receivers. A younger Cecil Shorts and an oft-suspended Blackmon. He did have MJD and Marcedes, but for the most part, he didn't have the receivers and protection that Blake will. Not here to argue whether he would have been better as we've seen his San Fran debut, but it's hard to argue that he had talent. Blake who has talent and talent around him from Marqise Lee, Allen Robinson, Cecil Shorts, Ace Sanders, Mike Brown, Toby Gerhart, Marcedes Lewis, the O-Line talent, and even D-Rob!

3. Coaching continuity

If you include Mel Tucker, Gabbert has had 5 Head Coaches in 4 years. Not including his college coach Gary Pinkel, he's gone from JDR to Mel Tucker to Mularkey to Gus to Harbaugh. This guy hasn't seen the same leader at te helm in a long, long time. I think little things like this matters. More likely than not, Blake will have that opportunity. He'll go into his second season with the same coach and same offense.

3. Defense!

The best offense is a good defense, right? Blake will have what Gabbert didn't: a formidable defense. Assuming that our defense stays on track, we're looking at a pretty talented bunch. Poz, Smith, Mince, and Pottoast lead Gabbert's team. All good players, but not nearly as talented as the D we have now.

5. Bortles just shows up!

Blaine always flashed his talent, but it was rarely seen on the field. He probably prepared well and knew the offenses, but he just didn't show up on GAMEDAY. Even one game, Bortles showed more stuff that goes beyond stats. Scramble ability, toughness, throwing or the run, throwing with pressure in your face. If he didn't have a couple of drops, his stat line would "look" better. But he just shows up. He flashes potential, but he definitely is a gamer as well.

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Of course if the starter is playing so poorly that he hurts the team then you go with the best back up, but you cant honestly beleive that would ever be Ricky over Blake do you?

 

If that's the approach you want to take, then Bortles should be starting now if he's better than Henne. That isn't the approach we've been told is being taken, though. Bortles is sitting until he's ready to play, not until he's the best option. If that's the case now, why would it change just because Henne sucks?


To put it another way, if Bortles ends up sitting behind Henne despite being the better quarterback, why would you think it's impossible for him to then end up sitting behind Stanzi despite being the better quarterback?

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I'm not.  He played well behind guys who mostly won't even be here after final cuts and did fine. 

 

Against pretty much no pass rush. Throw him up against a team blitzing heavily and it could be a different story, and one with a less happy ending.

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My thoughts on Blake that don't deserve it's own thread. Here are my thoughts on Blake Bortles. There's some things that separate Blake from Blaine, and I'll be making excuses for Blake and Blaine. I say this because I think the excuses I make for Blaine can be an absolute positive for Blake

1. Blake is just better than Blaine

Bortles is simply more talented than Gabbert who although had the prototypical NFL size like Bortles, Bortles has shown that he can utilize his size, speed, and arm talent more.

2. Bortles has more talent around him

This is where I make an excuse for Gabbert that bodes well for Blake's success. A lot of times, Gabbert had Jason Hill and Mike Thomas as his #1 and #2 receivers. A younger Cecil Shorts and an oft-suspended Blackmon. He did have MJD and Marcedes, but for the most part, he didn't have the receivers and protection that Blake will. Not here to argue whether he would have been better as we've seen his San Fran debut, but it's hard to argue that he had talent. Blake who has talent and talent around him from Marqise Lee, Allen Robinson, Cecil Shorts, Ace Sanders, Mike Brown, Toby Gerhart, Marcedes Lewis, the O-Line talent, and even D-Rob!

3. Coaching continuity

If you include Mel Tucker, Gabbert has had 5 Head Coaches in 4 years. Not including his college coach Gary Pinkel, he's gone from JDR to Mel Tucker to Mularkey to Gus to Harbaugh. This guy hasn't seen the same leader at te helm in a long, long time. I think little things like this matters. More likely than not, Blake will have that opportunity. He'll go into his second season with the same coach and same offense.

3. Defense!

The best offense is a good defense, right? Blake will have what Gabbert didn't: a formidable defense. Assuming that our defense stays on track, we're looking at a pretty talented bunch. Poz, Smith, Mince, and Pottoast lead Gabbert's team. All good players, but not nearly as talented as the D we have now.

5. Bortles just shows up!

Blaine always flashed his talent, but it was rarely seen on the field. He probably prepared well and knew the offenses, but he just didn't show up on GAMEDAY. Even one game, Bortles showed more stuff that goes beyond stats. Scramble ability, toughness, throwing or the run, throwing with pressure in your face. If he didn't have a couple of drops, his stat line would "look" better. But he just shows up. He flashes potential, but he definitely is a gamer as well.

That's an awful lot of words.


You could shorten that a hell of a lot by saying Gabbert's problems are all in his head (or spine).

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At the end of the day I feel it was more coach speak than anything. Blake has his problems to work on and I don't want him to start until that is rectified, but to me the real reason he will sit is because there are just to many moving parts in this offense right now that could lead to diasterious results.


Russell had Marshawn and okung on the line, Ryan had Roddy, even Luck was throwing to Wayne. There is no version of veteran presence or stability on this offense in any way shape or form. I feel they want this to take shape first and then slowly easy him in. The only player I feel could provide that presence is Marecdes Lewis and...... Yeah.


Let's just understand this season to be another focus of getting better and 2015 as our ascension into the upper tier of the league. I haven't watched a jags qb play like that in sometime. Even in the preseason. I can endure on more season cause I see the light at the ending the tunnel.

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I have gone back and forth on this issue.   Here is what I think right now.   Against the Bucs, Blake looked a lot better than Chad.   BUT, he played against second stringers, and no blitz, and if you watch the miked up video, he says himself he's glad they didn't blitz because he wouldn't have been able to deal with it.   Something about having "no idea who the Mike was."   Plus Henne had two drives stopped by bad snaps from the center. 

 

So as good as he looked, he is not ready to start in a real game.   Henne is still our best option.   Probably not for long, but for right now.   

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I have gone back and forth on this issue.   Here is what I think right now.   Against the Bucs, Blake looked a lot better than Chad.   BUT, he played against second stringers, and no blitz, and if you watch the miked up video, he says himself he's glad they didn't blitz because he wouldn't have been able to deal with it.   Something about having "no idea who the Mike was."   Plus Henne had two drives stopped by bad snaps from the center. 

 

So as good as he looked, he is not ready to start in a real game.   Henne is still our best option.   Probably not for long, but for right now.   

 

Only one of those snaps was bad enough that it should have killed the drive. One he just didn't appear to be ready for.

 

That being said, we've seen Henne against other teams second stringers, he hasn't ever played like that in a game I've seen. Closest would be a couple of years ago against the texans, and that was only because he got monstrous YAC from Shorts and Blackmon.

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If that's the approach you want to take, then Bortles should be starting now if he's better than Henne. That isn't the approach we've been told is being taken, though. Bortles is sitting until he's ready to play, not until he's the best option. If that's the case now, why would it change just because Henne sucks?


To put it another way, if Bortles ends up sitting behind Henne despite being the better quarterback, why would you think it's impossible for him to then end up sitting behind Stanzi despite being the better quarterback?

 

Here's my issue with this:  Bradley has said from day one that this team is all about competition.  Every position is a competition for playing time and the guy who wins that competition will play.  Why is it now so different for the QB's?  I just don't think he can talk about competition all the time then say that Henne is the starter even though Bortles clearly is the better player (if he continues to show).

 

My thoughts on Blake that don't deserve it's own thread. Here are my thoughts on Blake Bortles. There's some things that separate Blake from Blaine, and I'll be making excuses for Blake and Blaine. I say this because I think the excuses I make for Blaine can be an absolute positive for Blake

1. Blake is just better than Blaine

Bortles is simply more talented than Gabbert who although had the prototypical NFL size like Bortles, Bortles has shown that he can utilize his size, speed, and arm talent more.

2. Bortles has more talent around him

This is where I make an excuse for Gabbert that bodes well for Blake's success. A lot of times, Gabbert had Jason Hill and Mike Thomas as his #1 and #2 receivers. A younger Cecil Shorts and an oft-suspended Blackmon. He did have MJD and Marcedes, but for the most part, he didn't have the receivers and protection that Blake will. Not here to argue whether he would have been better as we've seen his San Fran debut, but it's hard to argue that he had talent. Blake who has talent and talent around him from Marqise Lee, Allen Robinson, Cecil Shorts, Ace Sanders, Mike Brown, Toby Gerhart, Marcedes Lewis, the O-Line talent, and even D-Rob!

3. Coaching continuity

If you include Mel Tucker, Gabbert has had 5 Head Coaches in 4 years. Not including his college coach Gary Pinkel, he's gone from JDR to Mel Tucker to Mularkey to Gus to Harbaugh. This guy hasn't seen the same leader at te helm in a long, long time. I think little things like this matters. More likely than not, Blake will have that opportunity. He'll go into his second season with the same coach and same offense.

3. Defense!

The best offense is a good defense, right? Blake will have what Gabbert didn't: a formidable defense. Assuming that our defense stays on track, we're looking at a pretty talented bunch. Poz, Smith, Mince, and Pottoast lead Gabbert's team. All good players, but not nearly as talented as the D we have now.

5. Bortles just shows up!

Blaine always flashed his talent, but it was rarely seen on the field. He probably prepared well and knew the offenses, but he just didn't show up on GAMEDAY. Even one game, Bortles showed more stuff that goes beyond stats. Scramble ability, toughness, throwing or the run, throwing with pressure in your face. If he didn't have a couple of drops, his stat line would "look" better. But he just shows up. He flashes potential, but he definitely is a gamer as well.

 

Why are you talking about Blaine Gabbert?  Gabbert doesn't compare in any catagory to Bortles.

 

Against pretty much no pass rush. Throw him up against a team blitzing heavily and it could be a different story, and one with a less happy ending.

 

Of all the teams we play, Houston blitzed the most last season (46% of dropbacks).  Houston only allowed 200 passing yards per game, but that's because they were behind so much that other teams ran the ball more.  Even though they only allowed 200 passing yards per game, the average opposing team QB rating was 94 because they allowed 29 passing TD's (tied for 5th most in the league) to only 7 INT's (fewest in the league).  To me, that shows that their blitzes didn't have the effect they wanted.  So that's just one example of why I'm not afraid of blitz packages.  If you want another example, the Jags blitzed the least of all 32 teams (only 17%) and our defense was improving at the end of the year.  (Blitz source: https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/20...blitzing/)

 

When Bortles was under pressure, he made the right decisions.  One was a big completion for a first down as he was getting hit.  The other was a sack he took where he did the right thing by not trying to force anything when he realized he was being hit.  The game isn't too big for him.  

 

Henne is hot garbage even when the opposing teams aren't blitzing.  Let it go.  Start the kid.

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Only one of those snaps was bad enough that it should have killed the drive. One he just didn't appear to be ready for.

 

That being said, we've seen Henne against other teams second stringers, he hasn't ever played like that in a game I've seen. Closest would be a couple of years ago against the texans, and that was only because he got monstrous YAC from Shorts and Blackmon.

 

It's obvious to everyone that Bortles has a lot more potential than Chad.  But if he cannot yet identify a blitz or make a line call to deal with it, I would not start him.   Just being "better than Chad" is not enough.   He has to be ready.    And right now, he is not ready.  Yet. 

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It's obvious to everyone that Bortles has a lot more potential than Chad.  But if he cannot yet identify a blitz or make a line call to deal with it, I would not start him.   Just being "better than Chad" is not enough.   He has to be ready.    And right now, he is not ready.  Yet. 

 

I didn't say Bortles was ready, just that it's already clear that he's a far superior talent at QB than Henne.

 

Henne is on the Gabbert level, Bortles is on the Andrew Luck level.

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Here's my issue with this:  Bradley has said from day one that this team is all about competition.  Every position is a competition for playing time and the guy who wins that competition will play.  Why is it now so different for the QB's?  I just don't think he can talk about competition all the time then say that Henne is the starter even though Bortles clearly is the better player (if he continues to show).

 

Take that up with Bradley. The fact of the matter, though, is that this is what he's said. Bortles will sit, not until he's better than Henne, but until he's ready.


 

Of all the teams we play, Houston blitzed the most last season (46% of dropbacks).  Houston only allowed 200 passing yards per game, but that's because they were behind so much that other teams ran the ball more.  Even though they only allowed 200 passing yards per game, the average opposing team QB rating was 94 because they allowed 29 passing TD's (tied for 5th most in the league) to only 7 INT's (fewest in the league).  To me, that shows that their blitzes didn't have the effect they wanted.  So that's just one example of why I'm not afraid of blitz packages.  If you want another example, the Jags blitzed the least of all 32 teams (only 17%) and our defense was improving at the end of the year.  (Blitz source: https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/20...blitzing/)

 

When Bortles was under pressure, he made the right decisions.  One was a big completion for a first down as he was getting hit.  The other was a sack he took where he did the right thing by not trying to force anything when he realized he was being hit.  The game isn't too big for him.  

 

Henne is hot garbage even when the opposing teams aren't blitzing.  Let it go.  Start the kid.

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Except, of course, that our offensive line is likely to be very porous against the blitz. Unless you want Bortles to be David Carr Mk II, you might want to respect the blitz a little more...

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