Between these two...Mayfield

---

How do you explain 4,000+ yards and 35 TDs in 2015 that earned him 48 NFL MVP votes? He was the only QB who threw for more yards than our guy Blake Bortles that year.

Also, Newton was drafted in 2011. That is a lot more than "a season or two."

Now look at two guys I named, Steve Young and Michael Vick. They had long careers as dual threat QBs.

Steve Young was a pocket passer.  He was athletic, very athletic, but not a "dual threat" QB.  

Newton is a physical freak.  OTOH, Jackson is a heck of an athlete who is a level above his competition in that regard.  Won't be that way in the NFL.

Look up any top 10 list of all-time great "dual threat" quarterbacks and Steve Young will be near the top of that list. Being a scrambler was very much his aura while he was playing. Jackson is also a physical freak in terms of athleticism, arguably moreso than RG3. He will certainly be a level above in terms of athleticism compared to most of the NFL.

---

I'm still concerned by the size/injury-vulnerability of both of these prospects. They'll both have to do more to win me over.

That said -- we have a VP of Football Ops that went with a 6'1" QB in Brunell and made it work, so.... grain of salt.

---

Jackson probably has the height at 6'2" or 6'3" but the injury aspect is probably his biggest knock. He's been healthy, but he is a very explosive/physical runner. His knees are bound to get torn up eventually. Since we just got done watching Deshaun Watson today, that is pretty much his exact frame.

---

Jackson probably has the height at 6'2" or 6'3" but the injury aspect is probably his biggest knock.  He's been healthy, but he is a very explosive/physical runner.  His knees are bound to get torn up eventually.  Since we just got done watching Deshaun Watson today, that is pretty much his exact frame.

I think Jackson may actually need to bulk up a little bit to be that "exact frame" and I'd like to see him a bit bigger and stronger than Watson, personally.  

I'd really like to see a "running QB" bulk up enough to take some hits in stride.  This is all idealistic talk - but I'll have to be seriously sold out to go all in on a QB prospect under 6'4" and 230lbs.  I prefer the prototypical pocket passer and don't want to see a Bridgewater-esque injury scenario take place in Jax. 

I'll be watching these guys with interest, and I'm not opposed to the concept of an elusive undersized QB. Just very cautious about it.

---

Jackson probably has the height at 6'2" or 6'3" but the injury aspect is probably his biggest knock.  He's been healthy, but he is a very explosive/physical runner.  His knees are bound to get torn up eventually.  Since we just got done watching Deshaun Watson today, that is pretty much his exact frame.

I think Jackson may actually need to bulk up a little bit to be that "exact frame" and I'd like to see him a bit bigger and stronger than Watson, personally.  

Maybe. They are listed at the same size. They looked the same height and more or less the same weight at the Heisman Presentation. I think Watson had probably 5 pounds on him though. Jackson looks to have bulked up quite a bit this season. I think they are probably the same weight now. You just know that when Jackson weighs in at the combine, he'll probably weigh in at 220-225. I just hope that the weight he adds will being meaningful muscle and that he can keep it on.

---

Mayfield and it's not even close. Jackson isn't even on my radar. He's a product of the system he plays in. QB's who run 20 times a game never succeed as signal callers in the NFL. I still Like Mason Rudolph the best though.

You are aware that Rudolphs passing scheme is less advanced than Jacksons right? Jacksons passing offense is pretty similar to the one we saw the Chiefs use against the Pats. He's probably the most advanced QB in this class in terms of playing eye games with safeties. He's a more advanced passer mentally than everyone in the class at this point.

The QB's go by the system they are in while playing college ball. That's the system they run, they have no say in the matter. Call it a less advanced scheme or whatever, but the Cowboys and Sooners' schemes looks way more like an NFL offense than Louisville. The offense is balanced between the run and the pass, the QB sits in the pocket and only runs when flushed, there are crossing patterns, bubble screens, screen passes, fades, deep throws, two minute drills and pretty much anything else you'd see in the NFL. Yes, they work exclusively out of the shotgun, but nowadays the vast majority of teams do the same thing in college. Learning to take the ball directly from Center is something they work on from day 1, when they college season ends and the draft preparation begins. Looking at Louisville's offense, there is no offense in the NFL that looks remotely like it. No NFL team uses nearly that many designed QB runs per game. Nothing close to it. The most recent successful QB's like Carson Wentz, Jameis Winston, Derek Carr and a few others came from offenses that resembled what Oklahoma and Oklahoma State looked like as opposed to Louisville.

---

[quote='TheO-LineMatters' pid='1023864' dateline='1505064917']


Petrino's offense is so gimmicky it's ridiculous. That's why when he was given a chance to coach the Falcons, the team was last in the division and he was run out of the NFL. He gets athletic QB's for his college system who rely totally on physical abilities and no actual football instincts.

Dude...Petrinos offense in the passing game is closer to whats used in the pros than Rudolph's , Mayfields , Darnolds etc etc.

---

JagsFanJay once again showing he doesn't have a clue what he's talking about.

---

JackCity, I take it you are addressing me, since you quoted my post. You're clueless. Rudolph, Mayfield and Darnold offenses are balanced and they make all the types of throws an NFL QB would make. Lamar Jackson is the entire Louisville offense. I don't even know why they bother keeping RB's on the roster, when Jackson runs the ball more than anyone else on the team. That's not what NFL QB's do. He takes off and runs if a defender gets within 7 yards of him. That won't get it in the NFL.

---

You are aware that Rudolphs passing scheme is less advanced than Jacksons right? Jacksons passing offense is pretty similar to the one we saw the Chiefs use against the Pats. He's probably the most advanced QB in this class in terms of playing eye games with safeties. He's a more advanced passer mentally than everyone in the class at this point.

The QB's go by the system they are in while playing college ball. That's the system they run, they have no say in the matter. Call it a less advanced scheme or whatever, but the Cowboys and Sooners' schemes looks way more like an NFL offense than Louisville. The offense is balanced between the run and the pass, the QB sits in the pocket and only runs when flushed, there are crossing patterns, bubble screens, screen passes, fades, deep throws, two minute drills and pretty much anything else you'd see in the NFL. Yes, they work exclusively out of the shotgun, but nowadays the vast majority of teams do the same thing in college. Learning to take the ball directly from Center is something they work on from day 1, when they college season ends and the draft preparation begins. Looking at Louisville's offense, there is no offense in the NFL that looks remotely like it. No NFL team uses nearly that many designed QB runs per game. Nothing close to it. The most recent successful QB's like Carson Wentz, Jameis Winston, Derek Carr and a few others came from offenses that resembled what Oklahoma and Oklahoma State looked like as opposed to Louisville.

Buddy,, the Louisville offense uses more pro style concepts in the passing game than both the Sooners and the cowboys. The timing routes they use with Lamar the pocket are pretty similar to what you see on a Sunday where as the other too are more simplistic college style. On a play to play basis Lamar has to make more advanced reads and has to use his IQ at a higher level than both of the other two QBs.  

Does he run alot? Yes of course he does. He's arguably the best talent we've seen at QB since Cam. You'd be crazy not to run with him in college. Notice how often he keeps his head up while doing so though and notice how often he escapes without taking a hit clean. 

Jamesis Winston came from an advanced passing scheme with Jimbo Fisher. Much much closer to and NFL scheme than any of them mentioned. Derek Carr played at an air raid scheme. Carson Wentz took snaps under center but was basic enough.  

I don't really care about the scheme as long as they have the traits. I like Mayfield and Rudolph. It's just intellectually dishonest to say that Lamar won't make it in the NFL because of his scheme.

---

Petrino's offense is so gimmicky it's ridiculous. That's why when he was given a chance to coach the Falcons, the team was last in the division and he was run out of the NFL. He gets athletic QB's for his college system who rely totally on physical abilities and no actual football instincts.

Dude...Petrinos offense in the passing game is closer to whats used in the pros than Rudolph's , Mayfields , Darnolds etc etc.

---

JagsFanJay once again showing he doesn't have a clue what he's talking about.

---

JackCity, I take it you are addressing me, since you quoted my post. You're clueless. Rudolph, Mayfield and Darnold offenses are balanced and they make all the types of throws an NFL QB would make. Lamar Jackson is the entire Louisville offense. I don't even know why they bother keeping RB's on the roster, when Jackson runs the ball more than anyone else on the team. That's not what NFL QB's do. He takes off and runs if a defender gets within 7 yards of him. That won't get it in the NFL.

You're missing the forest for the trees. If we are talking from a pure passing standpoint , Lamar makes more difficult throws than than the rest of those guys and is asked to do more from his scheme. 
I get that you don't like running QBs or white running backs for various reasons but the criteria you are using doesn't make sense at all. There isn't a hope in hell Lamar is ran that much in the NFL. His ability to run breaks defensive schemes so your still going to give him the keys to do it if needs be.  He's an adept in the pocket based on everything we have seen so far and is more advanced mentally than any other QB in the class. That's what you should judge him on imo. He has the arm, brain and legs to be a super star. Look at the traits they possess instead of how much they run in college.

---

Did they die?

They were cut, traded, waived, not re-signed, demoted, or fired.

The QB's go by the system they are in while playing college ball. That's the system they run, they have no say in the matter. Call it a less advanced scheme or whatever, but the Cowboys and Sooners' schemes looks way more like an NFL offense than Louisville. The offense is balanced between the run and the pass, the QB sits in the pocket and only runs when flushed, there are crossing patterns, bubble screens, screen passes, fades, deep throws, two minute drills and pretty much anything else you'd see in the NFL. Yes, they work exclusively out of the shotgun, but nowadays the vast majority of teams do the same thing in college. Learning to take the ball directly from Center is something they work on from day 1, when they college season ends and the draft preparation begins. Looking at Louisville's offense, there is no offense in the NFL that looks remotely like it. No NFL team uses nearly that many designed QB runs per game. Nothing close to it. The most recent successful QB's like Carson Wentz, Jameis Winston, Derek Carr and a few others came from offenses that resembled what Oklahoma and Oklahoma State looked like as opposed to Louisville.

Buddy,, the Louisville offense uses more pro style concepts in the passing game than both the Sooners and the cowboys. The timing routes they use with Lamar the pocket are pretty similar to what you see on a Sunday where as the other too are more simplistic college style. On a play to play basis Lamar has to make more advanced reads and has to use his IQ at a higher level than both of the other two QBs.  

Does he run alot? Yes of course he does. He's arguably the best talent we've seen at QB since Cam. You'd be crazy not to run with him in college. Notice how often he keeps his head up while doing so though and notice how often he escapes without taking a hit clean. 

Jamesis Winston came from an advanced passing scheme with Jimbo Fisher. Much much closer to and NFL scheme than any of them mentioned. Derek Carr played at an air raid scheme. Carson Wentz took snaps under center but was basic enough.  

I don't really care about the scheme as long as they have the traits. I like Mayfield and Rudolph. It's just intellectually dishonest to say that Lamar won't make it in the NFL because of his scheme.

No. You didn't know that college scramblers exclusively run Wishbone Triple Option? It's impossible for fast quarterbacks to throw. Everyone knows that without even having to watch. It just is.

---

The problem with Lamar is the problem you have with any mobile QB. They extend drives in college that they may not be able to in the pro's so they'll be able to pad stats. And because of their scrambling ability, they are more likely throwing to WRs who are far more open than non-mobile QBs are throwing to. So it's harder to judge them. Here is a good video of basically every play of his last week against UNC. And this was one of his better games obviously.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kDNxXNDLSg

Almost every single play is either him running or dumping it off to a wide open guy running a short crossing pass. How do you judge that in terms of what he'll need to do in the NFL? It's hard. He had one really pretty bomb that went for a TD. And had one really nice pass to a guy about 15 yards down the field that wasnt open when he threw it. But the majority of throws he made down the field were pretty far off target. And a lot of those were to wide open guys. You just dont see very many of the kinds of throws you'll need to make consistently in the NFL so it's hard to judge. I remember having this discussion about Cam back when he was coming out. And at least with him there seemed to be far more throws down the field in tight coverage that he was throwing on a rope for a completion. You don't see as many with Lamar. And obviously he doesnt have to.

The other scary thing is look at the hits Lamar was taking early in that game. Can you imagine him taking those in the NFL? Ugh. Wouldnt want to see that if he was our QB. He needs to learn how to slide and avoid hits the way Russell Wilson does.

But he has all the physical tools you'd want an NFL QB to have. So of course he will be drafted early. And just like every other QB going into the draft, you have no idea if they have whatever "it" is that makes one successful. It really just seems to be luck of the draw. Find a guy who has the physical tools and then cross your fingers that it works out.

---

________________________________________________
Scouting well is all that matters.  Draft philosophy is all fluff.

Mayfield isn't even close to Jackson as a prospect.

---

Article breaking down Petrinos offense

http://settingedge.com/lamar-jackson-pro-ready

---

Article breaking down Petrinos offense

http://settingedge.com/lamar-jackson-pro-ready

Great post! Thanks for sharing.

---

Kind of ironic the very first image in that link is of him overthrowing a wide open guy down the field.

---

________________________________________________
Scouting well is all that matters.  Draft philosophy is all fluff.

I love LJ. He's a fantastic college player. Whether that translates to the pros is beyond me, I'm not a scout but he's a very good player.

---

I tell you what... you guys might be arguing just to argue.

I think both of these guys are 1st round picks.
Whether they pan out or not will definitely depend on who they go to and when they start I think.'

I really think Jackson will struggle to stay healthy if he keeps taking the pounding he is taking.
And I don't see how any wouldn't see Mayfield as a first round QB at this point.

Comp %=83.6 YPA=13.00 TD=6 INT=0 Rating=228.8
In one and a half games...
He was perfect VS nobody UTEP and then proceeded to have an amazing game VS Ohio State.... they're pretty good in case you didn't know.

He might be taking over as my personal favorite.... Luke Falk hasn't really turned it up a notch at all, while Mayfield improves each season.

---

I tell you what... you guys might be arguing just to argue.

I think both of these guys are 1st round picks.
Whether they pan out or not will definitely depend on who they go to and when they start I think.'

I really think Jackson will struggle to stay healthy if he keeps taking the pounding he is taking.
And I don't see how any wouldn't see Mayfield as a first round QB at this point.

Comp %=83.6  YPA=13.00  TD=6  INT=0 Rating=228.8
In one and a half games...
He was perfect VS nobody UTEP and then proceeded to have an amazing game VS Ohio State.... they're pretty good in case you didn't know.

He might be taking over as my personal favorite.... Luke Falk hasn't really turned it up a notch at all, while Mayfield improves each season.

Mayfield wont go in the first round, I can guarantee you that, he doesnt have NFL traits, Josh Allen sucks most of the time and scouts still like him, scouts look at size, arm strength and all that stuff more then they should, teams would not draft a guy like Mayfield in the 1st.

He's Ken Dorsey, Danny Warful, great college QB not an NFL QB

---

<B><FONT color=cyan>Jags this is your year</FONT></B>

I tell you what... you guys might be arguing just to argue.

I think both of these guys are 1st round picks.
Whether they pan out or not will definitely depend on who they go to and when they start I think.'

I really think Jackson will struggle to stay healthy if he keeps taking the pounding he is taking.
And I don't see how any wouldn't see Mayfield as a first round QB at this point.

Comp %=83.6  YPA=13.00  TD=6  INT=0 Rating=228.8
In one and a half games...
He was perfect VS nobody UTEP and then proceeded to have an amazing game VS Ohio State.... they're pretty good in case you didn't know.

He might be taking over as my personal favorite.... Luke Falk hasn't really turned it up a notch at all, while Mayfield improves each season.

Mayfield wont go in the first round, I can guarantee you that, he doesnt have NFL traits, Josh Allen sucks most of the time and scouts still like him, scouts look at size, arm strength and all that stuff more then they should, teams would not draft a guy like Mayfield in the 1st.

He's Ken Dorsey, Danny Warful, great college QB not an NFL QB

We'll see...

---