KC took a RB in the first last year and if im not mistaken they went to the superbowl. And before you tell me their team is built, their defense is not that good..

And yet I bet they wish they had drafted an Olinemen so they didn't get blown up in the Super Bowl.....

And CEH only played in the SB. Darrell Williams was their leading post season rusher.

They were fine at OL until the 4th quarter of the AFC championship game.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

My god you're really going to make me put all of these posts into one thing huh? What pedantry.

1. Never draft a RB in the first round. Even if you have a franchise QB on a rookie deal and 20 other pro bowl starters.
2. Don't worry about RB at all until your rebuild is in its later phases. Don't worry doesn't mean ignore: take some late swings and try to hit on a couple day 3/UDFA RB.
3. Once you have a team that is ready to compete (and if #2 didn't work out), you can draft RB on day 2. That's where the evidence shows you get the best blend of value and chance to hit.

I don't see how these are minor details when you just now had to modify your blanket statement from your previous post.  Let's just keep modifying your statement so you can be 'right'.  All before the guy has played a down.

You know full well what my philosophies about taking RB early are I've posted about the topic probably more than a hundred times by now. I was emphasizing that the Panthers especially royally screwed it up by taking CMC when they clearly didn't have a franchise QB. But even if you do have one you still don't draft an RB in the first round.

The Chiefs are 100% kicking themselves for taking CEH. No doubt about it.

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I don't see how these are minor details when you just now had to modify your blanket statement from your previous post.  Let's just keep modifying your statement so you can be 'right'.  All before the guy has played a down.

You know full well what my philosophies about taking RB early are I've posted about the topic probably more than a hundred times by now. I was emphasizing that the Panthers especially royally screwed it up by taking CMC when they clearly didn't have a franchise QB. But even if you do have one you still don't draft an RB in the first round.

The Chiefs are 100% kicking themselves for taking CEH. No doubt about it.

RIGHT NOW?  Maybe.  I'd like to see you try to pimp that point if BOTH starting tackles hadn't gotten hurt in the playoffs.

Or should they have read their tarot cards and known that?

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You know full well what my philosophies about taking RB early are I've posted about the topic probably more than a hundred times by now. I was emphasizing that the Panthers especially royally screwed it up by taking CMC when they clearly didn't have a franchise QB. But even if you do have one you still don't draft an RB in the first round.

The Chiefs are 100% kicking themselves for taking CEH. No doubt about it.

RIGHT NOW?  Maybe.  I'd like to see you try to pimp that point if BOTH starting tackles hadn't gotten hurt in the playoffs.

Or should they have read their tarot cards and known that?

It was a baaaaaad pick from the second they wrote his name on the draft card and handed it to Roger.

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RIGHT NOW?  Maybe.  I'd like to see you try to pimp that point if BOTH starting tackles hadn't gotten hurt in the playoffs.

Or should they have read their tarot cards and known that?

It was a baaaaaad pick from the second they wrote his name on the draft card and handed it to Roger.

If you say so chief.

Would drafting another player have prevented the tackles from getting hurt?  They're not going to take another tackle in the first round when they are set it the position.

So other than your belief that taking a RB in the first round...and at the very bottom of the first round...I'm not seeing how that wouldn't make any difference with their fate last year.

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Drafting for the next year is how you wind up making the mistake of drafting a running back in the first round.

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Mmmm popcorn.

Idk i still say the guy that touches the ball on offense second most to your qb still has value. No matter what the new school says.

Are the steelers built? I guess some pretty respected franchises are just stupid too.

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RIGHT NOW?  Maybe.  I'd like to see you try to pimp that point if BOTH starting tackles hadn't gotten hurt in the playoffs.

Or should they have read their tarot cards and known that?

It was a baaaaaad pick from the second they wrote his name on the draft card and handed it to Roger.

He was having a great rookie season before he got hurt. It definitely was not a bad pick.

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Ok, instead of bemoaning the wasted draft value that is water under the bridge. Lets try to figure out what would make the selection enough to begrudgingly be okay with:

What if ETN gets say 125 rushing attempts for 500 yards, 3 TDs and 45 catches for 550 yards and 5 TDs, and is one of the league leaders in punt returns?

Is that enough? What is your over/under on rushing and passing returns this season?

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Ok, instead of bemoaning the wasted draft value that is water under the bridge. Lets try to figure out what would make the selection enough to begrudgingly be okay with:

What if ETN gets say 125 rushing attempts for 500 yards, 3 TDs and 45 catches for 550 yards and 5 TDs, and is one of the league leaders in punt returns?

Is that enough? What is your over/under on rushing and passing returns this season?

Jamal Agnew was brought here to be the main return man. If they drafted ETN 25th overall to put him on return duty as well, that's not a good look.

I think 1050 total yards and 8 TD is pretty underwhelming for a 25th overall pick. Considering our UDFA James Robinson put up 1414 total yards and 10 TD, in only 14 games.

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Ok, instead of bemoaning the wasted draft value that is water under the bridge. Lets try to figure out what would make the selection enough to begrudgingly be okay with:

What if ETN gets say 125 rushing attempts for 500 yards, 3 TDs and 45 catches for 550 yards and 5 TDs, and is one of the league leaders in punt returns?

Is that enough? What is your over/under on rushing and passing returns this season?

Jamal Agnew was brought here to be the main return man. If they drafted ETN 25th overall to put him on return duty as well, that's not a good look.

I think 1050 total yards and 8 TD is pretty underwhelming for a 25th overall pick. Considering our UDFA James Robinson put up 1414 total yards and 10 TD, in only 14 games.

Forgot about Agnew. 

I know the totals are not exciting, but whole point of ETN being "worth" a high pick is the efficiency meaning big plays, so lots of a yards from few touches.

JR has 289 touches last year for 4.8 yards a play. Sure that is pretty good for a RB. 

So my number are on the low side, but if could get you somewhere near 1000 yards at 10 yards a touch, that would be worth it. But I'm not sure any RB/WR hybrid has ever produced that.

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Jamal Agnew was brought here to be the main return man. If they drafted ETN 25th overall to put him on return duty as well, that's not a good look.

I think 1050 total yards and 8 TD is pretty underwhelming for a 25th overall pick. Considering our UDFA James Robinson put up 1414 total yards and 10 TD, in only 14 games.

Forgot about Agnew. 

I know the totals are not exciting, but whole point of ETN being "worth" a high pick is the efficiency meaning big plays, so lots of a yards from few touches.

JR has 289 touches last year for 4.8 yards a play. Sure that is pretty good for a RB. 

So my number are on the low side, but if could get you somewhere near 1000 yards at 10 yards a touch, that would be worth it. But I'm not sure any RB/WR hybrid has ever produced that.

Robinson did that on arguably the worst Offense in the league though. I wanna say I remember seeing a stat that we played from behind (in score) more than any team in the league, besides the Jets. This was months and months ago though so I could be wrong, but we were basically #1 or #2 in playing from behind in points iirc.

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RIGHT NOW?  Maybe.  I'd like to see you try to pimp that point if BOTH starting tackles hadn't gotten hurt in the playoffs.

Or should they have read their tarot cards and known that?

It was a baaaaaad pick from the second they wrote his name on the draft card and handed it to Roger.

So what tackle should they have taken instead?

The odd thing is that there were few tackles taken anywhere near that spot in the draft.  The tacks took Isaiah Wilson at 29.  But that was a good pick because it wasn't a RB, right?  The Chiefs picked CEH at 32.  Then there were two OL taken the entire 2nd round:  Robert Hunt taken at 39th overall-seven (7) picks later, and then the Vikings took Ezra Cleveland 58th overall. 

http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/years/2020

The interesting thing there is both Robert Hunt and Ezra Cleveland have both been moved inside to G.

So even if the Chiefs drafted either Cleveland or Hunt at 32, it likely would not have solved their T issue for the Super Bowl if the two starters got hurt like they did.  Even if the Chiefs drafted either Cleveland or Hunt at 32, they still likely would have made the trade for Orlando Brown.

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Drafting for the next year is how you wind up making the mistake of drafting a running back in the first round.

The draft is held in April.  The regular season does not begin until September.  If you are not drafting for the next year, for when are you drafting?!?

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Mmmm  popcorn.

Idk i still say the guy that touches the ball on offense second most to your qb still has value.  No matter what the new school says.

Are the steelers built?  I guess some pretty respected franchises are just stupid too.

Bingo.

The Patriots also took a RB in the first round back in 2018.  So did the Seahawks.  Giants too.

There are eleven (11) Super Bowl trophies between those three franchises.  Counting the Steelers this year, that's 17 Lombardi's.  Three recent Super Bowl winning teams drafted RBs in the first round.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Forgot about Agnew. 

I know the totals are not exciting, but whole point of ETN being "worth" a high pick is the efficiency meaning big plays, so lots of a yards from few touches.

JR has 289 touches last year for 4.8 yards a play. Sure that is pretty good for a RB. 

So my number are on the low side, but if could get you somewhere near 1000 yards at 10 yards a touch, that would be worth it. But I'm not sure any RB/WR hybrid has ever produced that.

Robinson did that on arguably the worst Offense in the league though. I wanna say I remember seeing a stat that we played from behind (in score) more than any team in the league, besides the Jets. This was months and months ago though so I could be wrong, but we were basically #1 or #2 in playing from behind in points iirc.

I think we are arguing past each other.

I'm not arguing ETN is a replacement for JR or will be better than him. The whole "reasoning" for ETN is because he supposedly can create big plays, like 20+ yard runs or catches.

JR is great for what he is, a chain mover. But he only had five 20-yard runs, one 40-yard run, and two 20-yard catches. That is basically on the same level as David Montgomery. It is nice, but doesn't really scare a defense.

Just because he was on the worst offense that was always behind doesn't really matter. If anything with more space/prevent defenses playing the pass, JR could have had more big plays.

I'm just trying to move this past the whole ETN vs JR debate which is pointless. The goal is to have both on the team and hopefully even on the field at the same time.

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RIGHT NOW?  Maybe.  I'd like to see you try to pimp that point if BOTH starting tackles hadn't gotten hurt in the playoffs.

Or should they have read their tarot cards and known that?

It was a baaaaaad pick from the second they wrote his name on the draft card and handed it to Roger.

First of all, I am and will always be against selecting a RB in round 1. With that said, at the time, KC had no glaring weaknesses. If they had any minor needs at all, it was at RB. They needed a more dynamic runner and they were picking at the very bottom of round 1. They identified CEH as the player they wanted and they knew he wouldn't last until the end of round 2, so they took him. I wouldn't have, but I don't have too much of a problem with what they did, because again, they were Superbowl Champions with no glaring needs. Not a 1-15 team who could've used elite talent at almost every position. 

In hindsight, could KC have used that pick on an O-Lineman and been better served? Who knows? All of the good OT's had seemingly been picked over and at the time, Fisher and Schwartz were two of the more reliable OT's in the league. It's easy to point out now what they could've used that #32 pick on, but at the time, it appeared to be a low risk move. They had nice bookend Tackles and a really good starting OG in Duvernay-Tardif. Having both OT's suffer serious injuries and their best OG opt to sit out and fulfill his role as a doctor during a pandemic was just bad luck that no one saw coming.

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It was a baaaaaad pick from the second they wrote his name on the draft card and handed it to Roger.

First of all, I am and will always be against selecting a RB in round 1. With that said, at the time, KC had no glaring weaknesses. If they had any minor needs at all, it was at RB. They needed a more dynamic runner and they were picking at the very bottom of round 1. They identified CEH as the player they wanted and they knew he wouldn't last until the end of round 2, so they took him. I wouldn't have, but I don't have too much of a problem with what they did, because again, they were Superbowl Champions with no glaring needs. Not a 1-15 team who could've used elite talent at almost every position. 

In hindsight, could KC have used that pick on an O-Lineman and been better served? Who knows? All of the good OT's had seemingly been picked over and at the time, Fisher and Schwartz were two of the more reliable OT's in the league. It's easy to point out now what they could've used that #32 pick on, but at the time, it appeared to be a low risk move. They had nice bookend Tackles and a really good starting OG in Duvernay-Tardif. Having both OT's suffer serious injuries and their best OG opt to sit out and fulfill his role as a doctor during a pandemic was just bad luck that no one saw coming.

As rarely as I agree with you, this was/is my argument.  In this particular instance, he is making a really bad argument using this as an example.

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It doesn’t matter where you take them as long as you hit on the pick, especially the higher ones. I do agree with waiting until you have your QB to spend any significant draft capital on RB though. If you don’t have your franchise QB, the front office should be trying to tank without making it look obvious to the casual fan that’s what they’re doing. If the team is too good in other areas, you will perpetually prevent yourself from having a shot at the best QB prospects in a given draft and soon find yourself in QB purgatory.

The problem with these best case scenarios and philosophies are that GM’s/Head Coaches generally have a very short time to get the team competitive before the owner will replace them so doing what’s best long term for the team gets trumped by what’s best right now to keep their job(s) safe.

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It was a baaaaaad pick from the second they wrote his name on the draft card and handed it to Roger.

So what tackle should they have taken instead?

The draft is held in April.  The regular season does not begin until September.  If you are not drafting for the next year, for when are you drafting?!?

I didn't say they should take a tackle, I said they shouldn't have taken CEH. Big difference. They could have gone a ton of different directions.

You are drafting for the next half decade or more when you select first rounders, well any pick really but especially the earlier you get in the draft. There needs to be a blend of need and value, and RB is never going to add enough value to enter the equation in the first round.

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So what tackle should they have taken instead?

The draft is held in April.  The regular season does not begin until September.  If you are not drafting for the next year, for when are you drafting?!?

I didn't say they should take a tackle, I said they shouldn't have taken CEH. Big difference. They could have gone a ton of different directions.

You are drafting for the next half decade or more when you select first rounders, well any pick really but especially the earlier you get in the draft. There needs to be a blend of need and value, and RB is never going to add enough value to enter the equation in the first round.

Seemingly everyone else in the thread, including OLine, who agrees with you philosophically, seemingly thinks you were referring to T.

So why else would the Chiefs regret the CEH pick now?

They went back to the Super Bowl after they took him.  Is going back to the Super Bowl a basis for regret?  What else happened between them taking CEH in the first round and now to make them regret the pick?

He's still healthy.  There's nothing currently stopping him from playing another 4-5 years, meeting your half decade standard.

Why are they kicking themselves for that pick?

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!