We need to really focus on addressing our defense through the draft and try to sign a couple veteran o linemen.

---

Cann will fix the LG spot

Linder will fix the RG spot

Free Agent/draft will fix the Center spot

Marks and Fowler will fix the Defensive Line

Draft will fix the CB spot

Draft will fix the FS spot


Everybody else is good.


Hopefully Myers won't miss extra points and FGs next season.


Greene will hopefully be healthy to boost our PR position.


Not sure why he don't return kickoffs. But that spot is ok for now


We need all defense in the draft and FA with the exception of Center.

---

Ok Dave went out and got his skill guys.  He got his QB, RB, Receivers, Tight End, and Tackle.

 

It's clear as day what the major problem is with the talent level of the team especially inside the 20's.

 

The offensive line is not strong enough to push ahead to lead the Running back.  If you have watched most of the redzone running attempts you will see there was no place for the runners to go.  I'm not saying Toby is good but when the defenders were hitting him behind the LOS that's on the line.  The same exact result for Robinson.  In the NFL if you can't run inside the redzone you don't score. 

 

To fix it some players are going to have to be upgraded or replaced? Linder coming back will be huge but the problem is much greater than just one player.

 

On the Defensive side its the same story. The lack of pass rush gives QB's too long.  Fowler coming back may help (tbd) but when you look at this line Marks is the only consistent player.   How to fix it?

 

 

 

On the offensive side:  Luke is serviceable and a decent run blocker, LG needs a big upgrade, Wiz is just decent, Linger at RG, and Parnell should stay.   Maybe get some competition for Luke and try to upgrade Guard and Center.

 

On the Defensive side:

 

Marks is the only player I really care about keeping,  There are some good backups on the team but the goal should be to get atleast another 2 starters.

 

Fowler To Be Determined

Marks should be healthy

Clemons Cut

Branch Cut

The rest are just backups.

I'm not sure about Joeckel being a decent run blocker.

 

I remember the failure to punch it in the endzone in the Buffalo game.  One pay in thay series stands out.  It was a run to the right, but Joeckel's guy absolutely blew him up, forced him into the backfield, and forced Gerhart to move further laterally to the right.

 

We cannot have failures of that sort and expect to convert short yardage.

 

If the defender we want isn't there when we pick, I would not be opposed to a Ronnie Stanley in the draft.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

How about we try yeldon in the redzon

---

They could try the rub route

 

Fred Taylor, during the postgame radio show on sunday, was saying the team needs to run more plays like this.  And that Tom Coughlin loved slipping the RB out of the backfield.  makes sense to me.

 

Personally I think the biggest issue with redzone woe's is the lack of Oline.  Aside from maybe Linder, I think every single player on the Oline is replaceable.  Not saying we should go out and replace all of them.  But if we are sitting there in the early 2nd round, and a first round graded center is sitting there, take him.  Or if we are there in the early 3rd round and a late 1st / early 2nd round graded RT is sitting there, take him.  I think all of our olineman are solid average players.  But there is no Tony Boselli.  No Leon Searcy.  No Vince Manuwai.  Not even a Ben Coleman.  

---

________________________________________________
Scouting well is all that matters.  Draft philosophy is all fluff.

I agree with you that a key element of our red zone 'woes' is the offensive line. However, I think poor play calling is also an element in our red zone impotence. I don't agree with you about Joeckel though; he gets beat like a drum too often. Beadles wasn't that good to begin with... that's why Denver let him go. Wiz is a vet, and while I think he isn't a world stopper at center, he is probably better than a rookie would be in that position. We just need to get our starters at RG and RT healthy and we should be okay on that side of the line.

 

As I said, the other seemingly apparent problem with our red zone offense is the play calling. I'm not a professional coach, but I have to wonder what is Olson thinking when he calls the same running play up the middle four times in a row? Is he doing a 'gut check'? There are better times for that than in a real game!

 

Why, considering we have two tall TE's, some very effective WR's, a highly mobile QB and fast, pass catching RB's... why don't we do more 'play action' when we're close like that? Other teams do that and are very effective at getting into the end zone. In fact, once upon a time that's what the Jags did run with great success (I'm referring back to the TC days). 

 

Perhaps there are factors that I'm not aware of or considering. But I know this; from the one yard line, if you can't punch it in after two tries, it's foolish to keep running the same play that's already failed. That was straight up on Olson, as is the lack of imaginative play calling in those situations. You don't have to be a rocket scientist (or a pro football coach) to realize that we don't have a very good run blocking line. Therefore, alter the plays when at close range like that to take advantage of what you do have.

 

It looks to me like with the talent we do have on the offensive side of the ball that the play action would be our 'go to' play... especially when close to the goal line.

 

 

---

Ok Dave went out and got his skill guys.  He got his QB, RB, Receivers, Tight End, and Tackle.

 

It's clear as day what the major problem is with the talent level of the team especially inside the 20's.

 

The offensive line is not strong enough to push ahead to lead the Running back.  If you have watched most of the redzone running attempts you will see there was no place for the runners to go.  I'm not saying Toby is good but when the defenders were hitting him behind the LOS that's on the line.  The same exact result for Robinson.  In the NFL if you can't run inside the redzone you don't score. 

 

To fix it some players are going to have to be upgraded or replaced? Linder coming back will be huge but the problem is much greater than just one player.

 

On the Defensive side its the same story. The lack of pass rush gives QB's too long.  Fowler coming back may help (tbd) but when you look at this line Marks is the only consistent player.   How to fix it?

 

 

 

On the offensive side:  Luke is serviceable and a decent run blocker, LG needs a big upgrade, Wiz is just decent, Linger at RG, and Parnell should stay.   Maybe get some competition for Luke and try to upgrade Guard and Center.

 

On the Defensive side:

 

Marks is the only player I really care about keeping,  There are some good backups on the team but the goal should be to get atleast another 2 starters.

 

Fowler To Be Determined

Marks should be healthy

Clemons Cut

Branch Cut

The rest are just backups.

 

I think you covered it.   I agree with everything you said, other than cutting starters.    If you've got guys on the depth chart as #1, #2, and #3, why cut #2 and keep #3?   If we have starters who are better than the backups, then make those starters into backups and cut the backups.   Then get some new starters.   It just doesn't make sense to cut starters and keep their backups. 

 

But other than that, I agree entirely.   The biggest problems on this team are the offensive and defensive lines. 

---

OL is a problem. No push. Yeldon has to dance to pick up positive yardage, and when its an obvious run down the defenses just t up on our run game and can easily shut us down. We're also starting to see teams make adjustments knowing our OL is not good. They are dropping guys in coverage and rushing 4...sometimes 3...and affecting Blake regardless.

 

I will also agree that Olson's playcalling has been...lacking. People hated the Alualu call. But you know what? The Patriots score TDs on these types of plays. Houston did the same with JJ Watt. But therein lies the problem...that kind of playcall should be made in the goalline...not in the middle of the field (which we've tried a couple of times already) Goal line, the defense NEED to sell on the run, and they also have to contend with Blake's run option. Because the field is condense, it adds pressure on the defense: do I play the RB? Oh QB has the ball, do I play his run then? But wait, there's a big FB coming my way.

 

When its 3rd and short but there's 50 yards behind you, you can sit back and defend the FB knowing there's time for the rest of the defense to catch up. And even if you make a mistake, are you really scared of Alualu running a 50 yard touchdown run? Of course not. So the threat is minimal.

 

You run the same play in the redzone? It's bang bang. And the defense has very little time to decide to take TJ, Blake, or the FB. And guess what? You guess wrong, by the time your teammate tries to help you out to cover for your mistake...its too late. It may have only been a 4 yard gain...but that 4 yards just cost you 6 points.

 

Its mind numbingly dumb that we try these type of plays in the middle of the field but not in the redzone.

---

I agree we are improved.  We were 32nd in PPG last year and we are 22nd this year and that is a nice improvement.

 

Oakland was 31st last year with Olson.  They are 11th this year without him.

 

That is a much better improvement.  The offense got better when he left.

 

The teams he's called plays for seem to struggle to score points; minus his first year as Rams OC.

 

The Rams were 10th in PPG that season.  The next year they were 28th.

 

His first year with Tampa in 2009 they were 30th.  They had been 20th the year prior.

 

His 2nd year in Tampa they were 20th.  In the 3rd and final year they were 27th.

 

His two years in Oakland they were 24th and 31st.

 

Points are what matters and he's not been good in that category.

I really don't think it is on Olson beyond some questionable no run play calling.

But it has been said that Blake has checked out of some RZ runs, and there have been some run pass options, that BB5 has chosen to pass on.

 

That being said.... it is expected that young players improve from year to year. So an uptick in offensive production should have happened for both teams.

The offense improving more in Oakland has multiple factors, with their new offensive scheme obviously being one of them. Carr has improved and Cooper was a serious threat to add to that team.

The defense also has played better in Oakland, in both seasons really. 

However, here recently Oakland has come back down to Earth a bit. 

 

You always have to weigh all factors. Who did he have rostered with those teams....

 

 

I'm not ready to BLAME Olson yet. Our young Oline doesn't get a lot of push in the run game. Our QB and weapons on the outside can make plays. 

Leaning toward what seems to be the teams strength isn't so crazy.

 

Next year the Oline will have 2 really good guards, a solid RT and LT and Mack or Wiz. I think the run game will improve. 

I would bring back a FB. I would find a John Kuhn type guy.

I would run it more but like I said before playing to the strengths of the team isn't a bad idea, and we're not really a power run team, even if we want to be.

 

On D? Well... we need a playmaker at S. Find one. Get one. Somehow someway.

We need to get quicker sideline to sideline cover backers... Poz is great against the run, but we have to find his future replacement (Myles Jack?)

We can't rush the QB, so if we can't ever get to the QB consistently it won't matter if we can cover in the RZ or between the 20s.

Pass rusher should be attacked hard. Even if we miss on one or two, if we bring in 4 it'll be fine.

The market will have a lot of guys coming free, tweeners, 4-3 ends, we should bring in 2 or 3, and draft at the LEO position at least once in the top 3 rounds.

 

That's what I'd do.

None of that can happen until next season. So for now... I just hope we get a little better in the area each game. Focus on improving....

Next year we have to make our move.

---

Fred Taylor, during the postgame radio show on sunday, was saying the team needs to run more plays like this.  And that Tom Coughlin loved slipping the RB out of the backfield.  makes sense to me.

 

Personally I think the biggest issue with redzone woe's is the lack of Oline.  Aside from maybe Linder, I think every single player on the Oline is replaceable.  Not saying we should go out and replace all of them.  But if we are sitting there in the early 2nd round, and a first round graded center is sitting there, take him.  Or if we are there in the early 3rd round and a late 1st / early 2nd round graded RT is sitting there, take him.  I think all of our olineman are solid average players.  But there is no Tony Boselli.  No Leon Searcy.  No Vince Manuwai.  Not even a Ben Coleman.  

I agree with your statements about the o-line. 

Wis is definitely no Meester either. 

---

.  Aside from maybe Linder, I think every single player on the Oline is replaceable. 

Cann is getting really good. Linder and Cann are locks.

Wiz could be replaced... but if he isn't being replaced by Mack (or someone better) then I wouldn't risk a rookie.

Joker has improved. I know he isn't great, but to go LT you usually need to go in the 1st... not sure we can afford to use a 1st on OL

Parnell played better with Linder in the lineup. I'm OK with drafting a mid-round tackle to compete for RT duties or "swing tackle"

 

I think every depth player can be replaced for sure on the OL

---

As far as the Redzone offense.

 

First things first: Fade to Robinson... Post route/rebound play to Julius Thomas... Yeldon up the middle/offtackle... Bortles rolls out of the pocket and takes it himself. What else do you need?

 

Play to your personnel. we have a plethora of skill players. I like Hurns and Robinson on the outside, Marcedes and Julius as in line TE's with Yeldon in the backfield. the 7 men on the line allows flexibility for run blocking or keeping extra guys back to pass block (because we can't create holes up front or protect our QB consistently) both JT and Marcedes are big body's so they can work the middle and post up the smaller DB's and LB's that they dwarf in size. on one side do a fade to Robinson, the other a quick slant to Hurns/doublemove to shake open shallow at the goalline on an inbreaking type route (or another fade since both the Alliens have height)

 

the other option. "Spread em and Shred em":

Denard Robinson in at RB. Allen Robinson isolated on one side, Hurns out wide to the other, Greene in the slot next to him, and Julius Thomas inside of him in the tight slot between the RT and Greene. motion Denard out of the backfield to the slot by robinson. or in a "Quads" formation to the far side. You can then screen pass to Denard Robinson in space with 3 blockers ahead of him. Have Drob motion out then come back across for a Jet sweep (variation being a pass to allen robinson off the sweep) if you put 5 quick talented guys and spread the goalline formation, ill bet one of them can win short, outjump someone on a fade or bortles can scramble. This kind of formation worked in the first titan game and i was so confused why Olson didn't call personnel groupings like this the whole game.

---

Championship Formula:

1) Draft Trevor Lawrence!
2) Play good physical Defense! 
3) Keep 91% of the roster healthy!
4) ???
5) Blank #2
6) CHAMPIONSHIP!!!

I really don't think it is on Olson beyond some questionable no run play calling.

But it has been said that Blake has checked out of some RZ runs, and there have been some run pass options, that BB5 has chosen to pass on.


That being said.... it is expected that young players improve from year to year. So an uptick in offensive production should have happened for both teams.

The offense improving more in Oakland has multiple factors, with their new offensive scheme obviously being one of them. Carr has improved and Cooper was a serious threat to add to that team.

The defense also has played better in Oakland, in both seasons really.

However, here recently Oakland has come back down to Earth a bit.


You always have to weigh all factors. Who did he have rostered with those teams....



I'm not ready to BLAME Olson yet. Our young Oline doesn't get a lot of push in the run game. Our QB and weapons on the outside can make plays.

Leaning toward what seems to be the teams strength isn't so crazy.


Next year the Oline will have 2 really good guards, a solid RT and LT and Mack or Wiz. I think the run game will improve.

I would bring back a FB. I would find a John Kuhn type guy.

I would run it more but like I said before playing to the strengths of the team isn't a bad idea, and we're not really a power run team, even if we want to be.


On D? Well... we need a playmaker at S. Find one. Get one. Somehow someway.

We need to get quicker sideline to sideline cover backers... Poz is great against the run, but we have to find his future replacement (Myles Jack?)

We can't rush the QB, so if we can't ever get to the QB consistently it won't matter if we can cover in the RZ or between the 20s.

Pass rusher should be attacked hard. Even if we miss on one or two, if we bring in 4 it'll be fine.

The market will have a lot of guys coming free, tweeners, 4-3 ends, we should bring in 2 or 3, and draft at the LEO position at least once in the top 3 rounds.


That's what I'd do.

None of that can happen until next season. So for now... I just hope we get a little better in the area each game. Focus on improving....

Next year we have to make our move.

So the fact that he's never had a productive scoring offense isn't concerning? His offense have always struggled to score...and we are struggling to score.

---

I have said this several times but at goal and short to go I would spread five wide, put Bortles in shotgun, maybe motion a big WR in tight and run Bortles up the gut. He is 6'5" 250 and is uprisingly quick and nimble. They haven't attempted this once this year.


Otherwise, I agree with rolling Bortles out and letting him bootleg towards the corner and either throw it in there or run it. The problem is we did this twice this weekend and it was covered both times and Bortles made a mistake both times.


The other thing I would do is the same thing as the GIF above: throw a quick slant middle of the field and let our big WRs and TE body and box out the smaller DBs.


That being said, I disagree with Scarecrow, I think the playcalling has been really good this year, with the exception of in the redzone at times. I think they are scrambling to find plays that work because they have been so inept. I blame it on being such a young offense. Also, as I stated earlier, I like the bootleg calls in the redzone this week, they were just well-defensed.

You know despite all the yards Blake has ran for the last two years, he has yet to score a touchdown.


I agree with you though; some QB draw, power, and zone read plays used sparingly would really open up the offense in the red zone.

---

Haven't read any of the comments but my first instinct would be to bring in someone who was a proven talent in scoring which this gm already has done with Julius Thomas. my second instinct would be to bring in a bigger back to help pound the line on goaline situation which we have already tryed with gerhart but that has ended up being a disaster. on of the highlight lows of the year for me was watching gerhart and alualu try and fail 4 times in a row from 1st and goal from the 1 yard line, bringing in another back IMHO is a waste of cap space and a roster spot when you have the albino rhino on our pay roll and saddly parting ways with toby would only free up the roster spot since most of his money is guaranteed iirc( not really sure how the cap space works in regards to guaranteed money). but for some reason our redzone offense doesnt concern me at this point because we are managing to put points on the board everygame. until we sure up our D, IMO, our offense is going to continue to get out scored regardless of what they can or cant do in the redzone. 

---

Copy the exact same plays that seem to work for every other freaking team. How come every other team runs the play action wide [BAD WORD REMOVED] open TE play to perfection and we have the QB throwing bullet fades into the stands?

awesome

---

Roll the QB out one way, sneak the TE across the field to the back side opposite of the way the QB is rolling, throw back to the wide-open TE.  It's unstoppable; I've never seen a team stop it.

 

Also, zone reads with Bortles.

---

Cheat like the Pats.

---

I ain't no monkey... I'm an ape.

You know despite all the yards Blake has ran for the last two years, he has yet to score a touchdown.


I agree with you though; some QB draw, power, and zone read plays used sparingly would really open up the offense in the red zone.

 

That is so strange. 

---

I wouldn't fix it, I think Bortles will naturally progress there, as it's commonly thought that's the last thing a QB "gets."


In the offseason I would draft for both lines.

---