I mean they have tons of different defense formations but the jist of both teams defense is to stop the run and force the pass...

 

they play zone cover three with the Strong Safety being brought in on most plays to help stop the run.

 

Look how Seattle played without Cam, so some of it could simply be that the DBs dont have the talent to execute Gus Bradley's scheme but if that is the case why didnt they draft or trade for a DBs or why say that the team is built?

Or like most HCs or DCs why not change the game plan to the players strengths?

 

Dude, you're asking questions I don't think any of us can answer...  Next time Seattle plays, I'll have to focus on their D...

 

But as for what you're saying about our talent and what we could or should have done to adress any potential issue they may have seen is totally valid.  

 

My main gripe is that it's clear the current base defense we constantly run isn't working, and yet there really isn't anything they are deciding to do in order to get better results.  I mean, that's all on the coach.  The season is slipping away, heck there are games that begin to slip away, and no adjustment to fix it on D is ever done.  It's quite maddening.

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The team has been the worst at getting INTs for three years in a row, is that coaching by the HC, the DC Bob Babich, or the DB coach DeWayne Walker?

 

Or is it simply the DBs themselves in lack of talent?

It has to be one of them...

 

Safeties: Cyprien is a weak link. Brown was an upgrade over last year but is now injured.


CBs: I disagree with you. McCray was one of the top CBs in the NFL last year. Colvin isn't a pro bowler but is a good #2. IMO House is starting mainly because they paid him so much, but he was all over Hopkins today; Hopkins just made one amazing play after another.


 

The pass coverage looks worse than it is this year because the pass rush stinks.


 

As far as interceptions, I agree, none of our defenders are very good. But a DB is judged by more than just interceptions.


 

The CBs are fine. Brown and Sample might make a decent safety combo. Maybe some better coaching would make a difference.

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"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

The very sad fact is our best coverage player is MLB Paul Posluszny with 1 interception and he is currently ranked #66 (tied) in PDs with 3!

 

When your MLB (especially one that missed time with an injury) is your best coverage player, the team has serious DB problems!

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Safeties: Cyprien is a weak link. Brown was an upgrade over last year but is now injured.


CBs: I disagree with you. McCray was one of the top CBs in the NFL last year. Colvin isn't a pro bowler but is a good #2. IMO House is starting mainly because they paid him so much, but he was all over Hopkins today; Hopkins just made one amazing play after another.


 

The pass coverage looks worse than it is this year because the pass rush stinks.


 

As far as interceptions, I agree, none of our defenders are very good. But a DB is judged by more than just interceptions.


 

The CBs are fine. Brown and Sample might make a decent safety combo. Maybe some better coaching would make a difference.

 

You my friend, are why I created this thread.  You are drunk on the teal koolaid.  I agreed INTs are not the sole stat to judge a DB but PDs are pretty darn important and for not even one Jaguar to have more than 3 (MLB Poz is the only one that has 3Pds and only Jag [i think] to have an interception heading into week 7 is a fair assesment that something is seriously wrong with the DBs)!  How about Passing yards, or Points scored by passing...

 

I mean we have to take a serious look at the DBs and figure some of it (even a small part is their fault)!

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I mean many failing franchises can have tons of excuses but great HCs find a way to win.  I tend to group GM & HC together because its like a QB & WR they need to both be working good together or it'll simply fall apart.

 

I am on the fence with GM Dave Caldwell he's done some moves that I think are good, but I am no longer on the fence with Gus Bradley after this game... He has to be fired.

 

I jumped off the Bradley fence like 3 or 4 weeks ago...  LOL!

 

But I don't have any doubts about Caldwell yet...  Though this off-season is gonna be big...  He needs to hire the best possible HC.  Seriously, if he doesn't find a HC that can get us to 7-9 or 8-8 next year, I think Caldwell's seat begin to get hot.  

 

I no longer think, with BB5 and our offense that 6 wins is acceptable anymore.  This is easily a mediocre.  We are playoff caliber under the right coach and with just a couple more pieces...   

 

Colvin, House, McCray are solid DBs.  I'm sorry they just are.  Is Cyp the answer at SS?  Outlook is getting murky on that one.  Evans is a total disaster these last 2 weeks at FS.  He was WAAAAAAAY out of position on that last TD that the WR Houston WR had....  I talking WAAAAAAY out of position.  And Evans is always out of position.  If you want to flame anybody in the secondary, I would start with that guy.  He's a total liability.

 

 

By the way, I'm watching Andrew Luck.  He still sucks...  So innaccurate.  This division is so ready to be taken...

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Dude, you're asking questions I don't think any of us can answer...  Next time Seattle plays, I'll have to focus on their D...

 

But as for what you're saying about our talent and what we could or should have done to adress any potential issue they may have seen is totally valid.  

 

My main gripe is that it's clear the current base defense we constantly run isn't working, and yet there really isn't anything they are deciding to do in order to get better results.  I mean, that's all on the coach.  The season is slipping away, heck there are games that begin to slip away, and no adjustment to fix it on D is ever done.  It's quite maddening.

 

Maybe we wont know until HC Gus Bradley & DC Bob get fired (heck maybe even DeWayne Walker DB coach too)... then if new coaches come in and all of a sudden our CBs like McCray, Gratz, Colvin, and House get INTs and tons of PDs then we can say oh it was the scheme... or if the team got great pass rushers and the DBs still failed to get INTs for example....

 

It is hard to tell, and that is why I hope to discuss it in depth (with people like yourselves and others that might have a different perspective or knowledge on the matter to inform me what is what because Im not certain a 100% that its the DBs solely).. it very well could be coaching..

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Did you guys just see what happened in Indy?

 

OMG, the clots are a trainwreck

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Isn't an illegal formation a replay of the down, no matter what?

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I mean they have tons of different defense formations but the jist of both teams defense is to stop the run and force the pass...

 

they play zone cover three with the Strong Safety being brought in on most plays to help stop the run.

 

Look how Seattle played without Cam, so some of it could simply be that the DBs dont have the talent to execute Gus Bradley's scheme but if that is the case why didnt they draft or trade for a DBs or why say that the team is built?

Or like most HCs or DCs why not change the game plan to the players strengths?

 

That's the problem. The coaching staff needs to design the defense to the players he has. Expecting to succeed using Seattle's defense without Seattle's players is poor coaching.


There was one series today (maybe more) where the Jags blitzed on 1st and second down and Hoyer couldn't complete a pass. Then on 3rd and long the Jags went back to a 4-man rush and Hoyer had forever to finally complete a pass for a 1st down. I guess I'm a kindergartener because I can't see why they'd stop doing what was working. Clearly I don't understand the nuances of an NFL defense.

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"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

"It's built"

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I jumped off the Bradley fence like 3 or 4 weeks ago...  LOL!

 

But I don't have any doubts about Caldwell yet...  Though this off-season is gonna be big...  He needs to hire the best possible HC.  Seriously, if he doesn't find a HC that can get us to 7-9 or 8-8 next year, I think Caldwell's seat begin to get hot.  

 

I no longer think, with BB5 and our offense that 6 wins is acceptable anymore.  This is easily a mediocre.  We are playoff caliber under the right coach and with just a couple more pieces...   

 

Colvin, House, McCray are solid DBs.  I'm sorry they just are.  Is Cyp the answer at SS?  Outlook is getting murky on that one.  Evans is a total disaster these last 2 weeks at FS.  He was WAAAAAAAY out of position on that last TD that the WR Houston WR had....  I talking WAAAAAAY out of position.  And Evans is always out of position.  If you want to flame anybody in the secondary, I would start with that guy.  He's a total liability.

 

 

By the way, I'm watching Andrew Luck.  He still sucks...  So innaccurate.  This division is so ready to be taken...

 

 

I guess here is my main problem with GM Dave Caldwell if you truly feel that HC Gus Bradley is the problem than why did GM Dave Caldwell hire him, or why after three years into it did he finally quit on the guy?  I mean he is a professional, we are simply fans.  He had more data, more input, basically more information at his disposal to make that choice & he made a bad one not once, not twice but three years into it? 

The say a GM is tied with a QB a lot of times the guy he picks at the top of a 1st round to be the teams franchise QB shows his ability to pick out talent and lead the team in the right direction but the same is true with the GM's HC pick maybe more so than a QB because a lot of times GM pick the QB that the HC tells them to pick.  


I mean when it comes to trades, free agents, and drafting at this point in the third year I think hes better than average GMs (granted his staff is helping with many aspects of those decisions).  When it comes to hiring coaches if we all agree that he failed with Gus how come he didnt see it last year after only winning three games and only four the year before?

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Did you guys just see what happened in Indy?

 

OMG, the clots are a trainwreck

 

At least the Colts are competitive with the Patrtiots, the Jaguars were never really in that game.. maybe the first qtr.

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House in the endzone looking for his guy...

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That's the problem. The coaching staff needs to design the defense to the players he has. Expecting to succeed using Seattle's defense without Seattle's players is poor coaching.


There was one series today (maybe more) where the Jags blitzed on 1st and second down and Hoyer couldn't complete a pass. Then on 3rd and long the Jags went back to a 4-man rush and Hoyer had forever to finally complete a pass for a 1st down. I guess I'm a kindergartener because I can't see why they'd stop doing what was working. Clearly I don't understand the nuances of an NFL defense.

 

Doesn't it seem to you that for three years under HC Gus Bradley and DC Bob Babich that the Jaguars Defense couldnt stop any team from passing, and heck this year they struggle against the run too.

I mean the stats don't truly show you how the games are being played every game this season and the past three I felt that even the worst QB was going to look good against the Jaguars...

 

it is beyond frustrating, its simply as one fan said on here maddening!

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The Jaguars Defense are currently ranked 20th in passing yards but 28th in opposing QB ratings with an average of 103.6 against the Jaguars....

 

the jaguars defense though is tied 13th in sacks with 11, so is it truly that the pass rush is failing to get at the QB or is it what I think that the DBs or coaching is failing when it comes to the DBs on this team...

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Any defensive back can look bad with hardly any pass rush.   Guys get tired.

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Bleeding Teal since 1995. The Icon Teal Time Radio aka ctjags

  #Gojags

 

You my friend, are why I created this thread.  You are drunk on the teal koolaid.  I agreed INTs are not the sole stat to judge a DB but PDs are pretty darn important and for not even one Jaguar to have more than 3 (MLB Poz is the only one that has 3Pds and only Jag [i think] to have an interception heading into week 7 is a fair assesment that something is seriously wrong with the DBs)!  How about Passing yards, or Points scored by passing...

 

I mean we have to take a serious look at the DBs and figure some of it (even a small part is their fault)!

 

I just looked at the NFL.com stats. Poz is the only Jag listed with even one PD, so that can't be correct. I think the problem is that only players with INTs are listed there. In the general (sortable) DB stats anyone without an INT has only "---" for PD and several other columns.


 

I still say the biggest problem is a lack of pass rush, and that goes back to coaching. When the Jags blitzed Hoyer today he wasn't very successful. There was no excuse in not blitzing rookie Winston or fossil Hasselbeck, and that was 100% on the coaching staff.

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"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

Last year 2014 the Jaguars finished the regular season with 52 PDef (ranked #32) and tied for last in INTs with 6, but keep in mind that is for the entire Jaguars team and not solely the DBs...


If it wasnt for the LBs & DLine the stats would be much worse in the last three years.

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I guess here is my main problem with GM Dave Caldwell if you truly feel that HC Gus Bradley is the problem than why did GM Dave Caldwell hire him, or why after three years into it did he finally quit on the guy?  I mean he is a professional, we are simply fans.  He had more data, more input, basically more information at his disposal to make that choice & he made a bad one not once, not twice but three years into it? 

The say a GM is tied with a QB a lot of times the guy he picks at the top of a 1st round to be the teams franchise QB shows his ability to pick out talent and lead the team in the right direction but the same is true with the GM's HC pick maybe more so than a QB because a lot of times GM pick the QB that the HC tells them to pick.  


I mean when it comes to trades, free agents, and drafting at this point in the third year I think hes better than average GMs (granted his staff is helping with many aspects of those decisions).  When it comes to hiring coaches if we all agree that he failed with Gus how come he didnt see it last year after only winning three games and only four the year before?

 

I hear this critique of Caldwell often here in the Jungle.  Let's face it, when hiring a 1st time HC, no matter how much actualy research on that person you do, it's a crap shoot because you have no empirical data to formulate your opinion. 

 

Now, don't take this as I'm calling you out, because it is not what I'm doing...  But you must remember back 3 years ago when the hiring process was going on.  Bradley was one of the top HC hiring prospects of the time.  3 years ago, if you remember, going after a successfull Coordinator that may not have HC experience was all the rage.  The entire league was hiring inexperienced OCs and DCs during that period.  3 years ago, the concept of hiring a "retread" HC was not in vogue.

 

This is important to realize, because it's not as though there were any other coaches that were hired 3 years ago that are really lighting the world on fire right now are there?  Just checked, Bruce Arians is the only HC from that period who's killing it now.  Chip Kelley, and Chudzinsky were also in that class.  

 

Again, Bradley was one of the top candidates for multiple teams that year.  On top of that, there is a legit arguement to be made that an ice cream cone type coach is what we needed the first 2 years of this major rebuild.  If only Gus actually grew into this HC position as the team's talent got better, we wouldn't be having this arguement.

 

But the reality is the reality.  Gus was/is a good rah rah HC that kept this team's head up.  But he never advanced beyond that.  Caldwell made a hire in Gus that at the time was not panned by the league.  Matter of fact, he was considered an OK pick.

 

The thing that could indict Caldwell is if he keeps Gus beyond Tuesday after Week 17's game.  The other thing is that Caldwell needs to hire a world class head coach to take this team to the next level.  If those 2 things don't happen, then yeah, Caldwell's in trouble.

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A pass rush from the front 4 and LBs that can cover would help the DBs. Jags get zero pass rush from the front 4.

Not if QBs are throwing quickly. The Jaguars are extremely vulnerable in the short passing game. The underneath stuff is killing us. We are supposed to be an excellent man coverage defense.

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