Remember how stacked his Ds were? And I don't consider Alex Smith and Kaep poor to mediocre. Above average athletic game managers.

 

"Above average athletic game managers" is pure nonsense. They played the position, they won games, they were mediocre QBs at best. Jim made them look decent, but their efforts were much like Garrard's 2007 effort, obviously a product of the athletes and system around them. We're talking about two guys whose career high for TD passes in a season is 23, and that was Alex Smith. Kaepernick hasn't even gotten to 23.

 

Take it to the bank, Kaepernick will be remembered in the same vein as guys like Randall Cunningham and Mike Vick, guys that once were thought to be something special who ultimately showed too much limitation in their game to achieve true passing success.

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So am I supposed to rate them SOLELY based on your view, or are we allowed to use personal takes?


I don't consider, see my choice of words, Idon't consider, I don't consider them poor. I consider them above average athletic game managers, like Garrard.


Michael Vick was not poor to mediocre in his prime.


Superlatives and unnecessary uncouthness generally kill American writing.

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Success is a journey, not a destination.  Go all out Mighty Jaguars.

Brunell had 23 seasonal career high TDs, and that's after Jacksonville.


Your Pride QB, that had Fred, Smooth, Boselli, Searcy n co in his prime. 3x problwler. Is he poor to mediocre, like Alex Smith? Or do we use different standards for him? Perhaps your merits aren't too reasonable?

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Success is a journey, not a destination.  Go all out Mighty Jaguars.

'Berger with Wheels huh?

 

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So am I supposed to rate them SOLELY based on your view, or are we allowed to use personal takes?


I don't consider, see my choice of words, Idon't consider, I don't consider them poor. I consider them above average athletic game managers, like Garrard.


Michael Vick was not poor to mediocre in his prime.


Superlatives and unnecessary uncouthness generally kill American writing.

 

You took my words way too personally. Michael Vick was never above mediocre as a passer, and unless you really think running is what allows a QB to win championships then their abilities as a passer are their abilities as a QB. Reading defenses and making the right decisions along with throwing good passes is what makes a good or great QB. Vick is a great example, never had a passer rating as a starter over 90 except for one as a system QB for part of a season with the eagles, and he was fading fast at the end of that one.

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I used to call Vick an athlete that can pass the ball...very different from a QB, indeed. The overall body of work is what I was referring to.


And you can't call someone's view pure nonsense, then say they took your words too personally. I like your edge and zestiness. Then there's rudeness.

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Success is a journey, not a destination.  Go all out Mighty Jaguars.

I used to call Vick an athlete that can pass the ball...very different from a QB, indeed. The overall body of work is what I was referring to.


And you can't call someone's view pure nonsense, then say they took your words too personally. I like your edge and zestiness. Then there's rudeness.

 

Calling the phrase "above average athletic game manager" nonsense isn't personal, it's just pointing out that it makes no sense. Putting above average next to game manager is nonsensical. If you mean they're above average as game managers go then I think you're allowing for too much variation in the "game manager" moniker, as really what game manager means is a QB that can't elevate his team. Saying someone is above average at not elevating the play around him leaves my head spinning. It's even worse if you meant they're above average as QBs go, because really that's a pretty pointless thing to say, too. There are three kinds of QBs, those that are the Rodgers/Roethlisberger/Luck/Manning/Brees/Brady type that WIN games and push their teams to higher achievements, there's backup level guys, which is what most of the league has, and then there are guys that you should hope you never have to see play that are just taking up roster spots because there aren't even enough game manager (read as "back up") level guys in the league to fill out team roster needs.

 

Do you understand where I'm coming from?

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Above average signal callers: When on, Kaep, Alex Smith and Garrard flashed commendably.


Athletic: Dynamic, physical guys who move the chains with their legs, and aren't that easily brought down.


Game Managers: System guys who can man the position fairly well, IF all other pieces are functioning, but with limited game changing abilities.

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Success is a journey, not a destination.  Go all out Mighty Jaguars.

It looks like the betting world is starting to believe too. The Jags lead in win total "over" bets according to the Westgate Las Vegas SuperBook.

<a class="bbc_url" href='http://espn.go.com/chalk/story/_/id/13175897/nfl-money-coming-jaguars-broncos-win-total-bets'>http://espn.go.com/chalk/story/_/id/13175897/nfl-money-coming-jaguars-broncos-win-total-bets</a>

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"Before you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry, he's a mile away and barefoot."

Take it to the bank, Kaepernick will be remembered in the same vein as guys like Randall Cunningham and Mike Vick, guys that once were thought to be something special who ultimately showed too much limitation in their game to achieve true passing success.

Did you ever watch Randall Cunningham play?

It is no accident that he was a two time all pro, four time pro bowler, is second all time in rushing for A QB. Add to all of that... He was a three time NFL MVP.


His limitations seem to be eluding me at the moment.


Sure, he didn't put up the total number of yards of Manning, Favre or Marino,....but the guy was everything Michael Vick, Tim Tebow, Johnny Manziel and other "athletic" QBs were supposed to be.


And he was a damn good quarterback.


/rant

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Signature goes here.

Did you ever watch Randall Cunningham play?

It is no accident that he was a two time all pro, four time pro bowler, is second all time in rushing for A QB. Add to all of that... He was a three time NFL MVP.


His limitations seem to be eluding me at the moment.


Sure, he didn't put up the total number of yards of Manning, Favre or Marino,....but the guy was everything Michael Vick, Tim Tebow, Johnny Manziel and other "athletic" QBs were supposed to be.


And he was a damn good quarterback.


/rant

 

Cunningham was a "damn good QB" in the same way that guys like Michael Vick was a "damn good QB." Had some pretty good seasons early on, most of his seasons mediocre, suffered a lot of injuries, and had a late career blue chip season. In his case it was chucking the rock to Randy Moss on a stacked offense, in Vick's case it was chucking the ball to Desean Jackson. Randall is a great analogue to Vick and Kaepernick, he teased and made a buffoon of a lot of analysts that didn't understand you don't win championships as a QB with your legs.

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Is Steve Young the best passing and running QB to win a Super Bowl or is it someone else?

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I survived the Gus Bradley Error.

Is Steve Young the best passing and running QB to win a Super Bowl or is it someone else?

The number 3 all time rushing QB? There's no way he could have won a SB. That's just nonsense.

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Throwing in a nonqb related point, its hard to break out as a running back with the Oline we had too... D rob was good because he ran outside, away from our lineman to our receivers, who surprisingly were all good at blocking last year...

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Anyone mentioning Steve Young as some kind of defense of rushing QBs clearly doesn't get it. He won because of his passing, not because of his rushing, which wasn't even rushing, it was scrambling. He has a career YPA of 8.0 and career passer rating in the upper 90s in a time in the NFL when that was far higher than his peers. There have been some good passing QBs that scrambled really well, Tarkenton was another one, but it wasn't the rushing yards they made that made them great, it was their ability to understand defenses and make good passes to the right receivers.

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Throwing in a nonqb related point, its hard to break out as a running back with the Oline we had too... D rob was good because he ran outside, away from our lineman to our receivers, who surprisingly were all good at blocking last year...

And I think this was a big factor in Gerhart's failure to break out. Asking a runner like him to go around the outside clearly didn't suit him.


At the end of the day Bortles ability to break out isn't completely down to him though. We can talk about improving the "weapons" around him, but it's got to come down to the OLine...


It's hard to "break out" as a QB with an awful OLine. It wasn't all about sacks last season, Bortles was being put under pressure far too often and forced into making mistakes. If we can plug the gaps then Bortles must improve. If we can't, he won't.

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And I think this was a big factor in Gerhart's failure to break out. Asking a runner like him to go around the outside clearly didn't suit him.


At the end of the day Bortles ability to break out isn't completely down to him though. We can talk about improving the "weapons" around him, but it's got to come down to the OLine...


It's hard to "break out" as a QB with an awful OLine. It wasn't all about sacks last season, Bortles was being put under pressure far too often and forced into making mistakes. If we can plug the gaps then Bortles must improve. If we can't, he won't.

The phrase: "Can't see the forest for the trees" comes to mind.

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Original Season Ticket Holder - Retired  1995 - 2020


At some point you just have to let go of what you thought should happen and live in what is happening.
 

The phrase: "Can't see the forest for the trees" comes to mind.

Which bit don't you agree with ? Explain.

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Which bit don't you agree with ? Explain.

My bad, I was agreeing with you.  I could have made it clearer

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Original Season Ticket Holder - Retired  1995 - 2020


At some point you just have to let go of what you thought should happen and live in what is happening.
 

Did you ever watch Randall Cunningham play?

It is no accident that he was a two time all pro, four time pro bowler, is second all time in rushing for A QB. Add to all of that... He was a three time NFL MVP.


His limitations seem to be eluding me at the moment.


Sure, he didn't put up the total number of yards of Manning, Favre or Marino,....but the guy was everything Michael Vick, Tim Tebow, Johnny Manziel and other "athletic" QBs were supposed to be.


And he was a damn good quarterback.


/rant

Actually, very late in his career, Cunningham was the QB for the most prolific scoring offense of all time (late 90's Vikings). That is, until the '07 Patriots overtook them. *side note- Randy Moss was on both of those teams*


Cunningham was an outstanding QB that gets seriously underrated because he was a "running" QB for much of his time. He was far more than Vick/Kaep/etc.

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