Well...considering it is my argument that possibly an extra 3-4 first downs in this game could minimally have made a 10 point difference...I would agree with your closing statement. It is entirely possible Bortles gets us completions Henne didn't, resulting in those extra first downs.


Truthfully, there are two plays involving Lee I would like back. The first was the quick out to the left on third down right before the blocked FG. Not sure if it was a bad throw, route or both, but if that pass is completed, maybe the team goes in for another score. The dropped deep pass in the 2nd half (in no way Henne's fault), if caught, flips the field, gives us some momentum and takes more time off the clock

The first pass to Lee that you describe, it sure looked like Lee left his feet early and was left to awkwardly lunge at the ball.


I swear it looked like if he would have just run his route to the sidelines it would have been an easy catch. :/

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The first pass to Lee that you describe, it sure looked like Lee left his feet early and was left to awkwardly lunge at the ball.


I swear it looked like if he would have just run his route to the sidelines it would have been an easy catch. :/

 

On that play, McClendon snapped it high and Henne didn't recover well on the quick timing route and threw it too far outside and high for Lee to make a play on it. A lower and closer pass was an easy first down. 

 

Henne made a bad throw but he was trying to recover from a bad snap.  It's on Henne and McClendon more than Lee in my book. 

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Good analysis in this thread.  It's pretty rare these days to read an agenda free football discussion on this board.

 

Yes, this is actually my favorite thread about the Eagles game because it is an objective analysis of what happened.

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There's a lot of little things to like about Henne, but it's the big things that he's just can't nail down. In particular, it's his accuracy. While he's starting to have some effective streaks where he's on target with his passes, he tends to regress to his more erratic nature in critical situations. In the second half, he was just flat out missing targets, and I'm not just talking about deep strikes...he was missing dink-and-dunk range passes.

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'02

On that play, McClendon snapped it high and Henne didn't recover well on the quick timing route and threw it too far outside and high for Lee to make a play on it. A lower and closer pass was an easy first down. 

 

Henne made a bad throw but he was trying to recover from a bad snap.  It's on Henne and McClendon more than Lee in my book. 

 

It was as much on Lee as McClendon and Henne. Wide receivers should be able to catch slightly errant passes and we saw Allen Hurns do that on his two touchdowns.

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Twice in a half and I believe those didn't happen until the eagles had come back.

 

It was pretty conservative until the eagles took control of the game and by then it was too late.

 

 

There were three deep pass attempts in the second half.

 

With 5:30 left in the third and Jags still up by 3  -  Henne threw deep right to Hurns and the ball grazed his outstretched fingertips.  Probably deemed an overthrow by statisticians. 

 

Then, one play later  (3rd and 10) after a timeout due to misaligned rookies, Henne threw deep right to Lee. He nearly caught it but he did have to slow a bit for the ball and Boykin caught a hand in to break it up. 

 

10:40 left in the fourth quarter - Henne throws deep middle to Lee (looked like same play lee scored on in preseason week 4) but he overthrew him by 4 yards. Lee had half a step on defender. 

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There were three deep pass attempts in the second half.

 

With 5:30 left in the third and Jags still up by 3  -  Henne threw deep right to Hurns and the ball grazed his outstretched fingertips.  Probably deemed an overthrow by statisticians. 

 

Then, one play later  (3rd and 10) after a timeout due to misaligned rookies, Henne threw deep right to Lee. He nearly caught it but he did have to slow a bit for the ball and Boykin caught a hand in to break it up. 

 

10:40 left in the fourth quarter - Henne throws deep middle to Lee (looked like same play lee scored on in preseason week 4) but he overthrew him by 4 yards. Lee had half a step on defender. 

 

I agree the second pass was overthrown. No receiver could have caught that pass.

 

The one to Lee on the right sideline could not have been more perfect. I can only blame Lee for not catching it before the defender got his hand in.

 

OMG that would have been so awesome to see if the pass was not overthrown. But Lee would have been tackled at the spot with the defender right there.

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The part I don't understand is the mindless backing of him.

 

I will say this, though, when Bortles comes in and the Jaguars suddenly look like a good team I don't expect any of the people peddling Henne right now to backtrack on it, they'll just act like they knew all along that Henne was holding the team down.

Couldn't possibly be that Bortles isn't ready until the week that they actually put him in? Nah, couldn't be.


Like you said a few posts ago, you were arguing with pirkster about something that neither of you know, but that's not stopping you from pretending to know when Bortles is ready to go or not.


Putting Bortles in and having him look lost and unprepared would be very damaging to a coaching staff's credibility. The only logical conclusion someone can come to regarding this situation is that Gus isn't comfortable with Bortles' grasp of the offense. Anything else is pulling things out of your rear end. But logic is lost on a lot of people on these forums, especially those who are emotionally invested in Bortles and his preseason performance. Your opinion that Bortles would have won us that game is just that, an opinion. And quite frankly, it's based on very little information for you to be as snippy about it as you are.


Nice strawman on creating Henne "backers". I've not seen anyone post anything about backing Henne. Everyone knows what we have in him. You're whole argument and desire to start Bortles immediately assumes that there is no chance that he might come in not fully prepared and be very confused at what the opposing defense throws at him. You're also already patting yourself on the back for when Bortles does come in and plays well (hopefully) and being the one who knew it all along. At this point in time, it's little more than arrogant ignorance.

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I am so frustrated with the fans who think they know better than the coaches about Blake Bortles. None of you have seen a single practice. None of you have been on the sideline or in the locker room during games. None of you were at the UCF Pro Day or the NFL Scouting Combine. None of you were in quarterbacks and offense meetings. So why does anyone here think Bortles is ready and should be the starter?

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I am so frustrated with the fans who think they know better than the coaches about Blake Bortles. None of you have seen a single practice. None of you have been on the sideline or in the locker room during games. None of you were at the UCF Pro Day or the NFL Scouting Combine. None of you were in quarterbacks and offense meetings. So why does anyone here think Bortles is ready and should be the starter?

It's the emotion from being a fan and desperately wanting to see something different. Fortunately coaches and front office guys aren't making decisions emotionally. Sure, the coach may get fired up on the sideline about a bad call or a player who screws up, but they're not making personnel decisions with their heart. They're making them with their head.

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Jedd Fisch tried to exploit the 8/9 man boxes the Eagles were showing but Henne did not execute. Simple as that.

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Great analysis, Bullseye.  While I don't agree with all of it, I will say that you bring up some points that should be considered.

 

I've been one that has been harping on the fact that the 2nd half playcalling went into prevent.  It's interesting to see that the number of throwing plays was 8-1.  All I can say is that from my perspective, it seems to me that the throws became more for short yardage, almost like we went into a west coast offense.

 

I believe it was you, or maybe NYCJags, and some others that mentioned the lack of a running game was a big factor.  I agree with that as well.  But what allowed us to move the ball in the first half was that the D was not sure exactly what was coming.  It seemed to me that the start of the second half, the plays we ran were pretty predictable.

 

If the D knows the type of play you're going to run they can tee up on it.  We really weren't challenging the iggles the way we did in the first half, at least that's my perspective.  Yes we threw the ball quite a bit, but that doesn't necessarily mean that we were being aggressive and challenging their D.  

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There were three deep pass attempts in the second half.

 

With 5:30 left in the third and Jags still up by 3  -  Henne threw deep right to Hurns and the ball grazed his outstretched fingertips.  Probably deemed an overthrow by statisticians. 

 

Then, one play later  (3rd and 10) after a timeout due to misaligned rookies, Henne threw deep right to Lee. He nearly caught it but he did have to slow a bit for the ball and Boykin caught a hand in to break it up. 

 

10:40 left in the fourth quarter - Henne throws deep middle to Lee (looked like same play lee scored on in preseason week 4) but he overthrew him by 4 yards. Lee had half a step on defender. 

 

I'm not saying I'm right or that you are wrong.  But 3 deep passes does not an entire picture of the 2nd half make...  I'll defer to you, NYCJags in regards to the play log.  But the thing I notice is that the first deep pass you mentioned was well into the 3rd Quarter.  While I was watching the 3rd Quarter, it became clear to me that the main concern was to manage the rest of the game--- To not make any turn overs.  I thing it got our guys, particularly Henne, to play tight.  

 

I'm of course more than likely wrong.  But that was the impression I got.  

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On that play, McClendon snapped it high and Henne didn't recover well on the quick timing route and threw it too far outside and high for Lee to make a play on it. A lower and closer pass was an easy first down. 

 

Henne made a bad throw but he was trying to recover from a bad snap.  It's on Henne and McClendon more than Lee in my book. 

 

It seemed there were a couple plays were if the snap or blocking were just a little bit better we could have made something happen in the 2nd half...  I don't think this game was all on Henne.  And I should probably admit that the OC was not the only reason our offense started to choke.  

 

The collapse on the offense was multi-faceted.  There's no doubt about that.  

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Many have posted creditable reasons for Sundays lose. It was not all Henne’s fault this is a young team making young team mistakes. There is another aspect to the debate about starting Henne!

No one can justify starting a quarterback with a career record of games started of 18-33-0 over there third round pick that has out performed him in preseason,played better under pressure and played beyond the coaching staffs expectations. It all goes back to making a bad decision on not playing a drafted player before ever seeing him play under NFL conditions. I don’t put the blame on Henne I put it squarely on the general manager and coach. Just like this young team needs to learn as they go so does the organization. Any NFL team that makes a finite decision before using OTA, Camp and preseason to evaluate a player may find themselves in the same position as this coaching staff.

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No one can justify starting a quarterback with a career record of games started of 18-33-0 over there third round pick that has out performed him in preseason,played better under pressure and played beyond the coaching staffs expectations.

 

Don't be so stupid. Of course they can justify it.


To think otherwise requires us to believe that the entire coaching/front office staff are somehow deluded and can't see what you think you see (and remember, they have access to a whole load more information than you on every play and every practice session) and that the owner is a credulous fool who also can't see what you think you see.

 

The fact of the matter is that they've made the choice based on the information they have to hand, and they will have had to justify it to their employer.

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Many have posted creditable reasons for Sundays lose. It was not all Henne’s fault this is a young team making young team mistakes. There is another aspect to the debate about starting Henne!


No one can justify starting a quarterback with a career record of games started of 18-33-0 over there third round pick that has out performed him in preseason,played better under pressure and played beyond the coaching staffs expectations. It all goes back to making a bad decision on not playing a drafted player before ever seeing him play under NFL conditions. I don’t put the blame on Henne I put it squarely on the general manager and coach. Just like this young team needs to learn as they go so does the organization. Any NFL team that makes a finite decision before using OTA, Camp and preseason to evaluate a player may find themselves in the same position as this coaching staff.

 

I have been wondering what Henne's career starting record was.

 

If you are correct, it's 18-33-0, including Sunday's game. That's just a terrible starting record as a QB.

 

I knew he had a career losing record and have said before that he will retire with a career losing record.

 

Of those 18 wins, how many were come from behind wins in the 4th qtr, down by a TD or more?? Yes, I remember the Browns win from last season, when he hit CS111, so that's at least one.

 

Henne has been in that position with the Jags a few times and all I can recall is the Browns comeback.

 

How many more?

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I survived the Gus Bradley Error.

Don't be so stupid. Of course they can justify it.


To think otherwise requires us to believe that the entire coaching/front office staff are somehow deluded and can't see what you think you see (and remember, they have access to a whole load more information than you on every play and every practice session) and that the owner is a credulous fool who also can't see what you think you see.

 

The fact of the matter is that they've made the choice based on the information they have to hand, and they will have had to justify it to their employer.

 

I may remember wrong but I remember Dallas fans shouting for them to play Romo and the coaching staff was still holding onto Bledsoe as the starter. Then as soon as Romo came in the cowboys instantly became a much better team.

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We went to passes later in the game after going into panic mode.  If you rewatch the 1st half you'll see we actually went conservative late in the 1st half going up by 17.

 

Fisch was stubborn calling the run and we ran more times to the right than we did up the middle or to the left combined and had the lowest average (1.5 YPC to the right).  Why in the world would an O-Coord call the most runs to the weakest part of his line?  I don't know but it sure didn't make sense.

 

I will also offer that Beadles is not impressive so who knows...maybe Fisch isn't confident running behind him, nor should he be based on what I saw.

I did not break down the run in terms of left-middle-right distribution, so I defer to your analysis on that (good job, BTW).  However, that analysis does not answer the question of how the play calling was ultra conservative in the 2nd half, considering the first three drives netted a 1/8 run/pass ratio.  Examining whether the team ran left-middle-right on the ONE running play in the first three possessions of the second half doesn't tell us whether or how the team got conservative during that time.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

The first pass to Lee that you describe, it sure looked like Lee left his feet early and was left to awkwardly lunge at the ball.


I swear it looked like if he would have just run his route to the sidelines it would have been an easy catch. :/

It kinda looked like that, but my initial impression watching it was that it was poorly thrown-perhaps prematurely.

 

I don't know for sure.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!