Agreed wholeheartedly. I watched the SEC Championship game between Mizzou and Auburn and when the score was 45-42 I turned to my buddy and told him it's no fun watching football where the defenses are lethargic. A defensive battle can be a lot of fun to watch. Give me 12 wins 10-7 and it's a compelling matchup.

 

Regards........the Chiefjag

 

I agree.   This basketball on grass is getting way out of control. 

 

I remember the old days when the Raiders and Steelers faced off.   The scores were usually something like 10-7, and multiple players would be carted off the field unconscious.  That was pure confrontation, mano a mano.   Ahhh the good old days, when men were men. 

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The style of play might excite a fringe element of the fan base to buy tickets to a losing team, but a winner will excite more people. Look around town at the flags flying from cars. You see many, many, more FSU flags than Gator flags. People love to support a winner.

 

Regards........the Chiefjag

 

Um....a team that is playoff caliber and exciting (read big play potential) actually will have a greater chance of success once in the playoffs. 

 

A boring team that just barely gets by in the reg season by beating bad teams with consistent 13-10 type scores is going to create much less buzz than a team that exhibits some domination while going through their reg season schedule. 

 

Teams that don't have the ability to go point for point with potent offenses generally do not go far in the playoffs. So, yeah everyone loves a winner, thats true, and everyone generally knows what makes a winner, hence the more excitement over a team with the exciting style of play. 

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I agree.   This basketball on grass is getting way out of control. 

 

I remember the old days when the Raiders and Steelers faced off.   The scores were usually something like 10-7, and multiple players would be carted off the field unconscious.  That was pure confrontation, mano a mano.   Ahhh the good old days, when men were men. 

 

Yep and then came the 49ers of the 1980's and those teams couldn't win that way anymore because it took more than 10 points to beat the top teams. 

 

Those dinosaur days of your fathers Steelers and Raiders are relics. 

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exhibits some domination while going through their reg season schedule. 

 

 

In case you havne't noticed in the NFL there is rarely domination. When there is domination it's in the form of a 17 point margin and a single game or two.

 

I showed 2 years ago that the remaining 8 teams in the playoffs were top 10 defenses in the regular season while only 3 of them had top 10 offenses. Defense still matters.

 

Regards................the Chiefjag

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In case you havne't noticed in the NFL there is rarely domination. When there is domination it's in the form of a 17 point margin and a single game or two.

 

I showed 2 years ago that the remaining 8 teams in the playoffs were top 10 defenses in the regular season while only 3 of them had top 10 offenses. Defense still matters.

 

Regards................the Chiefjag

 

 

I don't think I ever said defense doesn't matter. Style of defense matters too. Forcing turnovers is huge. These generally happen more frequently from an aggressive style of defense as opposed to a plain vanilla style, unless you are a 2000 Baltimore Ravens one in 100 year type defense. 

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From watching what's happening in Dallas and Washington, I am starting to think the most important thing for Shad Khan to do is stay out of the way of the GM and the coach. 

 

And I think he will, because Shad Khan is a smart guy.  

 

Khan has been smart about not getting involved in football decisions.  The one time he did express an opinion, we were fortunate that it didn't wind up landing us another mediocre QB in a trade deal.  Since then, he's been allowing the football people to do their jobs, and his focus has been on the business side of the house trying to increase the revenue stream.  That's how things need to be. 

 

Meddling owners rarely succeed in the NFL. 

 

Jerry Jones is still living off the fumes of Super Bowl titles from the mid 1990s. 

 

Snyderbrenner in Washington has spent literally billions during his tenure as the Redskin's owner trying to buy a title, but he's barely had a whiff of the post season as an owner. 

 

For this team to turn things around in the eyes of the mainstream media, it needs to win, and it needs to do so consistently.  Once it's figured out how to accomplish that, the fans will be there, and media hacks will have to find something else to dismiss us for.  This notion that fans won't buy into it unless there's an exciting offense is a bunch of hooey.  I think our fans are a little more savvy than that.  We don't require a video game type offense in order to get behind this team.  Those who need that aren't buying tickets.  They're just spouting ignorance. 

 

Winning is fun for fans regardless of how it's accomplished.  Ask any fan who was at the game last Thursday night.  It was a great atmosphere throughout the game, and everyone left feeling good about this team.  We haven't been able to enjoy a win at home in over a year, so it was a nice slump buster, and the entire mood after the game was the best we've seen in a long, long time.  It didn't require a video game score.  All that was required was a win. The more consistently this team cobbles together wins, the more engaged the fan base will become.

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Yep and then came the 49ers of the 1980's and those teams couldn't win that way anymore because it took more than 10 points to beat the top teams. 

 

Those dinosaur days of your fathers Steelers and Raiders are relics. 

 

The problem I have with the current NFL is that they've made the quarterback so important that they have to put in all kinds of crazy rules to protect them, plus there aren't enough to go around.   It's really kind of unfair.  If you have an Aaron Rogers you are set for the next 10 years, and if you don't, you're screwed.  

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Winning is fun for fans regardless of how it's accomplished.  Ask any fan who was at the game last Thursday night.  It was a great atmosphere throughout the game, and everyone left feeling good about this team.  We haven't been able to enjoy a win at home in over a year, so it was a nice slump buster, and the entire mood after the game was the best we've seen in a long, long time.  It didn't require a video game score....

 

 

Lets not pretend as if it was a 9-6 snoozer, either...

 

That game Thursday night was not boring. They jumped out to a quick 2 TOUCHDOWN lead, (not settling for 2 FG's and be happy like during "another era"), and a healthy 17-7 Halftime lead before ultimately scoring a respectable 27 points and winning the game on a turnover, (another exciting play). 

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Gimme 3 yards and a cloud of dust baby!! And beer!!


Hip hip HORAY! x3


Plus occasional losing so that I don't get so desensitized to winning that it reduces blood flow! Got to have runs and losses!


Thanks teammates

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I understand what TMD is saying though.  I think the Jags need to be ahead of the curve, but for too often we have been behind it.  Of course winning trumps everything, but if you can win and be exciting then you will excite your fan base even more.  Anyways, point is, we need to be aggressive in this new NFL on offense and defense in my opinion.  I think Gus will bring that once we start getting more pieces in place and we have already shown some aggressive play calling with positive results this year.

 

I think more games like the one in Cleveland will do the trick. If we could actually have a few of those at home.

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The sun's not yellow, it's chicken.

Lets not pretend as if it was a 9-6 snoozer, either...

 

That game Thursday night was not boring. They jumped out to a quick 2 TOUCHDOWN lead, (not settling for 2 FG's and be happy like during "another era"), and a healthy 17-7 Halftime lead before ultimately scoring a respectable 27 points and winning the game on a turnover, (another exciting play).

Its weird seeing you oppotimistic about things.

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The 80's 49ers had one heck of a defense. Don't sell that short.

A very good/elite D is super exciting to watch.

Especially when you are in the stands. I had season tix in 2008 when I lived on Amelia Island. The crowd was amazing when our D was on the field. We were all screaming our heads off, and Stroud would get us riled up right after a break when Crazy Train would start up.

It was a great thing!


Yeah, watching Freddy break off a long run, was very exciting as well. But that 2008 D was monster too, and I actually had more fun as a fan in the stands when the D was on the field than when the offense was.

In the stands, you're pretty quiet and tense when the offense has the ball, waiting for a big play or a FIRST DOWWWWWWN (Move them chains).

But when the D is on the field, everyone goes berserk. It's a ton of fun! And worth the price of admission. But again, it's about wins and talent.

A tough D that swarms and jacks up QB's is awesome to watch.

I bet you if you polled the Seattle fans 2 mondays ago, they would say they loved seeing the D take apart Drew Breese more than they they liked watching the offense put up points. I could be wrong, but that Seattle D is very good/elite. It would be a blast to watch them blow up offenses

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My point though is important. Style of play does matter. 

 

NFL fans want to win yes, but want an exciting team while doing it as well. It will ultimately draw more fans and also draw more national attention and legitimacy to the team and IMO, ultimately reach higher peaks of success. Deny it all some of you want, but its true. 

 

The #1 consensus label I heard people say when I spoke of the Jags during the last decade was "boring". IMO, thats a big part of why the networks largely ignored us, 

Rico has already pointed out that one of the loudest and most exciting games ever player here was a 9-0 game against Pittsburgh.  Fans will embrace great defense as long as the team wins.  The explosive offense is more important if you not winning games and want to draw fans.  Winning cures all ills regardless of style.

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Original Season Ticket Holder - Retired  1995 - 2020


At some point you just have to let go of what you thought should happen and live in what is happening.
 

The problem I have with the current NFL is that they've made the quarterback so important that they have to put in all kinds of crazy rules to protect them, plus there aren't enough to go around.   It's really kind of unfair.  If you have an Aaron Rogers you are set for the next 10 years, and if you don't, you're screwed.

Its not unfair.. you just have to draft the right players.

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Yep and then came the 49ers of the 1980's and those teams couldn't win that way anymore because it took more than 10 points to beat the top teams. 

 

Those dinosaur days of your fathers Steelers and Raiders are relics. 

 

While that sounds cool and all, and certainly fits your agenda, it was because of rules changes that allowed teams like the 49ers to flourish.

 

You're fighting a straw man - something you are good at setting up. There are no teams winning 10-7 anymore. Any "good" team, good enough for the playoffs, will score a fair amount of points because the rules pretty much require it.

 

There will be the very rare team that wins on defense, and good for them. I don't think the Ravens of 2000, or their fans, are giving back their Super Bowl trophy.

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The sun's not yellow, it's chicken.

Its weird seeing you oppotimistic about things.

 

I've always claimed never to be optimistic or pessimistic....just realistic/ keep it real

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I echo the sentiments of jtmoney regarding TMD's post.

 

I think the prime ticket buying people for the Jaguars are in their 30's-40s.  Now I haven't researched this with the ticket office or anything, but just based upon typical life and professional development, I think people can be better equipped to afford season tickets during that time.

 

Assuming this to be true, our football frames of reference were formed in the 1980s and 1990s.

 

Think about what was happening in football during that time.

 

NFL teams had adapted fully to the 1978 rules changes that liberalized pass blocking and instituted the one-chuck rule for DBs.

 

San Francisco was the team of the 1980s, winning 4 Super Bowls that decade, and one more in the 1990s.  The Miami Dolphins drafted Dan Marino in 1983, and even though the Dolphins never won a Super Bowl with Marino, they were, without question, one of the most exciting teams to watch during that time.  Washington went to four Super Bowls between the 1982 season and the 1991 season under Don Coryell disciple Joe Gibbs.  Coryell was a passing game guru, and Gibbs was a revolutionary offensive mind in his own right-basically inventing the one back offense.  SF, Washington and Miami got a lot of exposure here in Jacksonville during that period, and all three teams had wild success with explosive passing offenses.

 

Meanwhile, college football followed the NFL and became more of a passing game.  The University of Miami and FSU rose to national prominence using explosive passing attacks and gadget plays.  This was followed by the University of Florida in the 1990s.  At least two of those schools, UF and FSU, have large followings here in Jacksonville.  To the extent people here were college fans before the Jaguars came along, it makes sense that these fans' football frames of reference were shaped by their teams ascent to national football powers utilizing explosive passing attacks.

 

When the Jaguars came along, we immediately developed strong rivalries with the Steelers, Brawns/Ravens and Oilers/Titans.  I submit part of that was due to the approaches the different teams took to offensive football.  Pittsburgh, Houston/Tennessee and Cleveland/Baltimore were all run the ball/stop the run teams and had been that way for decades before the Jaguars came along.  Jacksonville emphasized the passing game more and had the more explosive passing attacks, which appealed to the STHs whose football frames of reference begun as described above.  it was easier to see those teams as completely alien and foreign and thus easier to hate because of this.

 

I still think this paradigm of the passing game still holds sway amongst our fan base here, and I think that partially explains the fans being less than enthusiastic about the JDR era despite a moderate amount of success the team had.

 

Winning is of utmost importance in getting fannies in the seats.  But having an explosive offense I think is more important here than it is in say Pittsburgh or Cleveland or Chicago.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Rico has already pointed out that one of the loudest and most exciting games ever player here was a 9-0 game against Pittsburgh.  Fans will embrace great defense as long as the team wins.  The explosive offense is more important if you not winning games and want to draw fans.  Winning cures all ills regardless of style.

 

Point is, what did that season get us? Nowhere. That season we beat the Steelers 9-0, we also shut out another team too....

 

In the end though, we never could score enough points for that team to make the playoffs. 

 

You can cherry pick games like the 9-0 Steeler game, and they are good as a novelty....but 13-10 games are boring and consistent 13-10 type games suggest an offense that is either far to conservative, not good enough or both. You're not having much success in the playoffs with that style of play. Not in this current era of football. 

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Can someone please tell me what everyone's arguing about....can't for the life of me figure this one out.

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"Stay tight, stay close. Great things are going to continue to happen for this football team."  - Doug Peterson

I echo the sentiments of jtmoney regarding TMD's post.
 
I think the prime ticket buying people for the Jaguars are in their 30's-40s.  Now I haven't researched this with the ticket office or anything, but just based upon typical life and professional development, I think people can be better equipped to afford season tickets during that time.
 
Assuming this to be true, our football frames of reference were formed in the 1980s and 1990s.
 
Think about what was happening in football during that time.
 
NFL teams had adapted fully to the 1978 rules changes that liberalized pass blocking and instituted the one-chuck rule for DBs.
 
San Francisco was the team of the 1980s, winning 4 Super Bowls that decade, and one more in the 1990s.  The Miami Dolphins drafted Dan Marino in 1983, and even though the Dolphins never won a Super Bowl with Marino, they were, without question, one of the most exciting teams to watch during that time.  Washington went to four Super Bowls between the 1982 season and the 1991 season under Don Coryell disciple Joe Gibbs.  Coryell was a passing game guru, and Gibbs was a revolutionary offensive mind in his own right-basically inventing the one back offense.  SF, Washington and Miami got a lot of exposure here in Jacksonville during that period, and all three teams had wild success with explosive passing offenses.
 
Meanwhile, college football followed the NFL and became more of a passing game.  The University of Miami and FSU rose to national prominence using explosive passing attacks and gadget plays.  This was followed by the University of Florida in the 1990s.  At least two of those schools, UF and FSU, have large followings here in Jacksonville.  To the extent people here were college fans before the Jaguars came along, it makes sense that these fans' football frames of reference were shaped by their teams ascent to national football powers utilizing explosive passing attacks.
 
When the Jaguars came along, we immediately developed strong rivalries with the Steelers, Brawns/Ravens and Oilers/Titans.  I submit part of that was due to the approaches the different teams took to offensive football.  Pittsburgh, Houston/Tennessee and Cleveland/Baltimore were all run the ball/stop the run teams and had been that way for decades before the Jaguars came along.  Jacksonville emphasized the passing game more and had the more explosive passing attacks, which appealed to the STHs whose football frames of reference begun as described above.  it was easier to see those teams as completely alien and foreign and thus easier to hate because of this.
 
I still think this paradigm of the passing game still holds sway amongst our fan base here, and I think that partially explains the fans being less than enthusiastic about the JDR era despite a moderate amount of success the team had.
 
Winning is of utmost importance in getting fannies in the seats.  But having an explosive offense I think is more important here than it is in say Pittsburgh or Cleveland or Chicago.

All these points are well thought out, and while I agree with them, I think you exclude alot regarding a real football experience if the defense isn't mentioned. The 49ers in the SB they won against the Marino Dolphins happened because the D was littered with all pros. Even if you go back to the 70's, the 1972 Perfect Season Dolphins were carried by the Killer B's on Defense. Yes the 'Phins had 2 great RB's and a All Pro WR that made that team click on the offense, but I think the D is key.

Now if we flash forward to today's NFL, we all know that it's a QB driven league. And scoring points is great if you're a Red Zone subscriber. But scoring points means nothing if you can't hold back the other team. As a fan of 1 team, and one that has the Red Zone Channel, my opinion is that I'm not very interested in it.

I don't care about how much a team scores other than that it is more than the other team. For me, I prefer to watch games in their entirety to see how the ebbs and flows, the shifts of momentum, the way the lines play against eachother, the small mistakes, the bad penalties, create the entire picture of a game.

Each 60 minute game is a drama within itself. Getting the cliff's notes based on the red zone channel dilutes the intricacies that Made me fell in love with the NFL.

A great portion of the game is the D. To ignore it means you're ignoring a huge part of the struggle that happens on Sundays.

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