I think the answer is you provide people with money in some way where it can be spent on a useful education or skill. A skilled job or trade that gets paid above minimum wage. Minimum wage jobs are not meant for adults to fund their life, they're meant for kids/people in school trying to make a few extra bucks, and unemployment isn't meant to pay people more just because they don't want to work because they're being paid more to stay home, it was meant to help people in a bad spot/between jobs.

I don't think under our current political system we'll ever get there, though. The minute you start taking away money you were already giving people, you immediately sacrifice votes for yourself..

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I think the answer is you provide people with money in some way where it can be spent on a useful education or skill.  A skilled job or trade that gets paid above minimum wage.  Minimum wage jobs are not meant for adults to fund their life, they're meant for kids/people in school trying to make a few extra bucks, and unemployment isn't meant to pay people more just because they don't want to work because they're being paid more to stay home, it was meant to help people in a bad spot/between jobs.

I don't think under our current political system we'll ever get there, though.  The minute you start taking away money you were already giving people, you immediately sacrifice votes for yourself..

This (bolded) is the crux of the argument right here. Are service jobs meant to produce a living wage? Short and long answer, NO.

While the providing people with money to learn a trade sounds good on the surface, that becomes a regulation nightmare, and like colleges, trade schools would start price gouging since they know Uncle Sam is footing the bill.

The sad fact of the matter is that even if you provide free trade schools and free community college, I still don't think there would be a huge draw to them more than you see today. A person who wants to educate themselves or learn something will find a way to come up with the money to do so.

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Sure, if we still lived in an industrial economy, I'd agree with you. However, I'd wager most jobs in the US are service jobs. We still have the same problem we used to have, which is exploitation of the workers by the elite. I'm not talking about your real-estate millionaire or your mom-and-pops that make several hundred thousand a year. I'm talking about the ultra rich. The kind that meet and figure out how to map out our futures. Until conservatives get real about the real cause of corruption in our government (major corporate oligarchs), we are never going to be able to solve the problem. No one person should have more say than the masses as it pertains to shaping our future. Yet, that's happening all the time.

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Sure, if we still lived in an industrial economy, I'd agree with you. However, I'd wager most jobs in the US are service jobs. We still have the same problem we used to have, which is exploitation of the workers by the elite. I'm not talking about your real-estate millionaire or your mom-and-pops that make several hundred thousand a year. I'm talking about the ultra rich. The kind that meet and figure out how to map out our futures. Until conservatives get real about the real cause of corruption in our government (major corporate oligarchs), we are never going to be able to solve the problem. No one person should have more say than the masses as it pertains to shaping our future. Yet, that's happening all the time.

Wow, I thought Trotsky was dead, but here he is.

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I think the answer is you provide people with money in some way where it can be spent on a useful education or skill.  A skilled job or trade that gets paid above minimum wage.  Minimum wage jobs are not meant for adults to fund their life, they're meant for kids/people in school trying to make a few extra bucks, and unemployment isn't meant to pay people more just because they don't want to work because they're being paid more to stay home, it was meant to help people in a bad spot/between jobs.

I don't think under our current political system we'll ever get there, though.  The minute you start taking away money you were already giving people, you immediately sacrifice votes for yourself..

Who is "you"?

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

I think the answer is you provide people with money in some way where it can be spent on a useful education or skill.  A skilled job or trade that gets paid above minimum wage.  Minimum wage jobs are not meant for adults to fund their life, they're meant for kids/people in school trying to make a few extra bucks, and unemployment isn't meant to pay people more just because they don't want to work because they're being paid more to stay home, it was meant to help people in a bad spot/between jobs.

I don't think under our current political system we'll ever get there, though.  The minute you start taking away money you were already giving people, you immediately sacrifice votes for yourself..

Who is "you"?

It's YOU! ME, and any other tax paying American.

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Who is "you"?

It's YOU! ME, and any other tax paying American.

Precisely.  At least put the tax dollars to slightly better use than they are now.

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It's YOU! ME, and any other tax paying American.

Precisely.  At least put the tax dollars to slightly better use than they are now.

You consider your tax dollars paying for someone else' education "good use"?

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Precisely.  At least put the tax dollars to slightly better use than they are now.

You consider your tax dollars paying for someone else' education "good use"?

No, and I didn't say that.

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Need to find a way to deflate the currency because wages can't keep increasing. Most people don't have a clue how it works, so they just look at their own issues of I don't have enough money so give me more. They never see the person who put in the work in school, college, trade school, etc who would then be getting paid the same as someone trying to make a living working as a cashier, so that person say no way, you need to increase my pay because this deadbeat is making the same as me now. That doesn't work.

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Need to find a way to deflate the currency because wages can't keep increasing. Most people don't have a clue how it works, so they just look at their own issues of I don't have enough money so give me more. They never see the person who put in the work in school, college, trade school, etc who would then be getting paid the same as someone trying to make a living working as a cashier, so that person say no way, you need to increase my pay because this deadbeat is making the same as me now. That doesn't work.

Slow Joe and the Fed got that handled already with the money printer working overtime.

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Need to find a way to deflate the currency because wages can't keep increasing. Most people don't have a clue how it works, so they just look at their own issues of I don't have enough money so give me more. They never see the person who put in the work in school, college, trade school, etc who would then be getting paid the same as someone trying to make a living working as a cashier, so that person say no way, you need to increase my pay because this deadbeat is making the same as me now. That doesn't work.

Slow Joe and the Fed got that handled already with the money printer working overtime.

Don't know which one is deflating faster. The US Dollar or this Presidency..

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Sure, if we still lived in an industrial economy, I'd agree with you. However, I'd wager most jobs in the US are service jobs. We still have the same problem we used to have, which is exploitation of the workers by the elite. I'm not talking about your real-estate millionaire or your mom-and-pops that make several hundred thousand a year. I'm talking about the ultra rich. The kind that meet and figure out how to map out our futures. Until conservatives get real about the real cause of corruption in our government (major corporate oligarchs), we are never going to be able to solve the problem. No one person should have more say than the masses as it pertains to shaping our future. Yet, that's happening all the time.

Wow, I thought Trotsky was dead, but here he is.

What about that looks like Trotsky to you?

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Wow, I thought Trotsky was dead, but here he is.

What about that looks like Trotsky to you?

Well, "exploitation of the workers by the elite" to start with.

That whole paragraph sounded like it could have been written by Elizabeth Warren.

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What do you think the elite are doing? When you think about the actual control we have as the voter and compare that to the influence by the elite, it should be pretty obvious that we are exploitable. I could make quite the list of the ways the elite take advantage of the working class to line their pockets and further entrench their political power and influence. People need to wake up to that. No ideology is 100% wrong. It wouldn't even gain traction if there wasn't truth to it. I hate communism. It's an adolescent dream that has failed over and over again. That doesn't mean they don't make some good points.

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What do you think the elite are doing? When you think about the actual control we have as the voter and compare that to the influence by the elite, it should be pretty obvious that we are exploitable. I could make quite the list of the ways the elite take advantage of the working class to line their pockets and further entrench their political power and influence. People need to wake up to that. No ideology is 100% wrong. It wouldn't even gain traction if there wasn't truth to it. I hate communism. It's an adolescent dream that has failed over and over again. That doesn't mean they don't make some good points.

Allow me to introduce you to humans.

The problem with humans that have idealistic views? Once they taste the power - they become the oligarchs and the cycle continues anew.

Communism would be amazing if we weren't human beings - but we are - we always will be.

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Allow me to introduce you to humans.

The problem with humans that have idealistic views? Once they taste the power - they become the oligarchs and the cycle continues anew.

Communism would be amazing if we weren't human beings - but we are - we always will be.

Agreed, I've said this before. The ideas are great but people have to run it and people are bad, evil so nothing will work widespread. You may be able to get something working with a few families but after a generation or 2, unless you cull the bad ones, it will never be sustainable with the human beings looking at someone else saying I'm better than you or I'm producing more value.

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It might be possible with AI. No way the elites would subject themselves to that.

I am becoming increasingly convinced that the populist left and right need to find common ground. I think that is channeling our frustrations against the ruling class.

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It might be possible with AI. No way the elites would subject themselves to that.

I am becoming increasingly convinced that the populist left and right need to find common ground. I think that is channeling our frustrations against the ruling class.

I have some blueprints for a nice guillotine around here somewhere.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

It might be possible with AI. No way the elites would subject themselves to that.

I am becoming increasingly convinced that the populist left and right need to find common ground. I think that is channeling our frustrations against the ruling class.

It will depend if the left finally realizes they have been lied to and used for decades. If they do that, I think most of the will come to their senses and move to the middle. The crazies are already too far gone.

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