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JackCity · 04-20-2016, 10:33 AM

Quote:One of the disappointments of 22 years of Jaguars fandom is that the Jaguars have never had a truly dominant C in the entire time.

I think Michael Cheever would have been that dominant C had he not hurt his back.

Widell offered size, veteran savvy and nastiness. He would identify the necessary players, but was never a dominant run blocker. I can think of a few key plays he was pushed into the backfield by an opposing NT.

Wade was kind of like Widell lite.

Meester was probably the best overall, but I'm not sure he would be considered a dominant guy.

Yeah Meester best of bunch. Not dominant but a very good run blocker.

All I want in a center is a leader who can push hard in the run game and is there for 16 games each year.

irontrooper83 · 04-20-2016, 10:42 AM

I'm all for trading back into the first round for either a pass rusher or Ryan Kelly.

The bitter thing about FA was that although I was very happy with it, not being able to add another LEO/pass rusher like we wanted it complicated a bit more the combination of first 2 rounds.

If we were set at the position after FA we could have just drafted Jack and then traded back for Ryan Kelly, fixing 2 positions with the 2 best players at those positions in the draft and then go BAP for the rest of the draft.

Not having added another LEO now if we go Jack in the first (like I hope), trading up for R. Kelly I think it becomes really unlikely as I can't see Dave waiting round 3 to start adding other pass rushers as he will most likely find a a C or a G in those rounds than a DE.

If we go Bosa (or Lawson) instead we could trade up for R. Kelly and then focusing on linebackers on following rounds. (although we'll be nowhere closer to finding the talent Jack is in those rounds)

We'll see what we'll do, but if we draft Jack (again, I really hope he's the pick) at 5 I think it will be difficult to see pass rushers falling after pick 20-23 that will meet the value of Ryan Kelly. Tough choices for Dave, one week and we'll know Smile

SuperJville · 04-20-2016, 10:44 AM

can anyone remember a team trading up in the late 1st and getting a pass rusher that became a stud?

(not saying it's never happened, I'm just drawing a blank)

Bullseye · 04-20-2016, 11:09 AM

Quote:can anyone remember a team trading up in the late 1st and getting a pass rusher that became a stud?

(not saying it's never happened, I'm just drawing a blank)

I know the Texans traded up into the bottom of the 1st round and drafted Jason Babin. I don't think he became a stud for them, but he wound up becoming a 2 time Pro Bowler.

Besides that, I can't think of any time that happened.

That would be something I'd have to research.

Worst to 1st. Curse Reversed!

GlockBortles · 04-20-2016, 11:35 AM

Quote:How many truly dominant centers are there in the league right now? 5?

Pouncey, Mangold, Hudson, Mack, Kelce?

Frederick

Teal Curtain · 04-20-2016, 12:16 PM

"Cant hold anything back now" -Dan Fouts

Josh Stewart · 04-20-2016, 12:46 PM

Quote:I absolutely would especially if we go Jack and the 1st and there is an edge rusher falling. Still would love a Jack/Spence start to the draft.

I'm totally with you. I think whether it's Mack or Ramsey at 5. I'd like to see us trade back up for Spence or other edge rusher. What do you think about Jags trading up for a CB in 1st rd if we pick Buckner or Bosa at 5? M Alexander,Eli Apple or Kyle Fuller? I say no personally but Apple would be intriguing.

SuperJville · 04-20-2016, 12:54 PM

I say no trading up in the late first. We will get a very good player in the 2nd. I do think trading up into the 2nd or 3rd would not be a bad idea

git'er_done · 04-20-2016, 01:28 PM

Lots of analysts saying prospects 15-45 are pretty similar. Unless there's someone who they rate much higher than most because of scheme fit or something , I'd say early 2nd round is a good spot to be in.

Markulous · 04-20-2016, 01:46 PM

IMO, they'd only do it for someone like Noah Spence. If he falls, it's because of character concerns and not talent. If he had stayed at Ohio State and not gotten into trouble, he'd probably be a top 5 pick. Otherwise, they can probably just wait.

VisitingCobra · 04-20-2016, 01:57 PM

Quote:Lots of analysts saying prospects 15-45 are pretty similar. Unless there's someone who they rate much higher than most because of scheme fit or something , I'd say early 2nd round is a good spot to be in.

That same idea could be interpreted as the reason why another team would be OK trading out of the first round without it costing too much. It's also possible they try to trade back into the 2nd round with their 3rd round pick.

rpr52121 · 04-20-2016, 02:43 PM

Quote:Pass rush and secondary have been horrible for us. I feel like the first 2 picks should be dedicated to this, especially if we trade back. Not to say that a Center or O-lineman isn't needed. But defense is now our weakest link.

An effective inside running game and winning the TOP while also scoring to put the other team behind the eight ball would help the defense nearly as much as getting another secondary player.

SuperJville · 04-20-2016, 03:32 PM

Quote:IMO, they'd only do it for someone like Noah Spence. If he falls, it's because of character concerns and not talent. If he had stayed at Ohio State and not gotten into trouble, he'd probably be a top 5 pick. Otherwise, they can probably just wait.

What makes anyone say he would be a top 5 pick?

He doesn't have good size, doesn't have long arms, isn't particularly quick or fast...

I mean Joey Bosa on the same team is much bigger and much better as a prospect overall.

Markulous · 04-20-2016, 03:46 PM

Quote:What makes anyone say he would be a top 5 pick?

He doesn't have good size, doesn't have long arms, isn't particularly quick or fast...

I mean Joey Bosa on the same team is much bigger and much better as a prospect overall.

They are different players. Spence is much more of a 3-4 OLB or LEO and Bosa is probably best suited as a LDE or 5-tech.

Look at how quick Spence gets off the ball compared to Bosa. Look at his moves and how he gets away from lineman. You don't see Bosa doing that. Spence was being talked about as a dark horse for our #5 pick prior to the combine after all the "bad interview" stuff came out. If he was from a big school like Ohio State and had that production with no character concerns, I think it's pretty reasonable to think he'd be in the conversation as a top 5 pick. Edge rushers that can get after QBs are a premium position and this class is pretty weak.

SuperJville · 04-20-2016, 04:38 PM

Quote:They are different players. Spence is much more of a 3-4 OLB or LEO and Bosa is probably best suited as a LDE or 5-tech.

Look at how quick Spence gets off the ball compared to Bosa. Look at his moves and how he gets away from lineman. You don't see Bosa doing that. Spence was being talked about as a dark horse for our #5 pick prior to the combine after all the "bad interview" stuff came out. If he was from a big school like Ohio State and had that production with no character concerns, I think it's pretty reasonable to think he'd be in the conversation as a top 5 pick. Edge rushers that can get after QBs are a premium position and this class is pretty weak.

Sorry I just don't see it. As An edge guy, he's not explosive enough. Not big enough, not fast enough. He actually tested as a pretty average athlete.

I see him as a late 1st rounder regardless of the fact thAt he played for eastern Kentucky.

Markulous · 04-20-2016, 07:27 PM

Quote:Sorry I just don't see it. As An edge guy, he's not explosive enough. Not big enough, not fast enough. He actually tested as a pretty average athlete.

I see him as a late 1st rounder regardless of the fact thAt he played for eastern Kentucky.

I'm not saying he's as good of a prospect as Von Miller or anything, but the only other guy that's as good off the edge in this draft is Lawson IMO. Not many others compare and part of that is because there aren't many edge rushers in this draft. Bosa is stronger and better against the run than Spence, but I don't see how anyone could see him being quicker. Spence also will throw out different moves when something isn't working or when he's trying to get off of a block, Bosa doesn't. I don't see how Bosa could be a better LEO than Spence at the present time. Maybe with coaching it'll be different.

SilentJaguar · 04-20-2016, 08:37 PM

Quote:What makes anyone say he would be a top 5 pick?

He doesn't have good size, doesn't have long arms, isn't particularly quick or fast...

I mean Joey Bosa on the same team is much bigger and much better as a prospect overall.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyURLxUwaI4

Also: His arms are 33 inches which is very much long enough for a LEO pass-rusher.

JagAU09 · 04-20-2016, 08:52 PM

Quote:can anyone remember a team trading up in the late 1st and getting a pass rusher that became a stud?

(not saying it's never happened, I'm just drawing a blank)

Clay Matthews

SuperJville · 04-20-2016, 09:53 PM

Quote:<a class="bbc_url" href='https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyURLxUwaI4'>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyURLxUwaI4</a>

Also: His arms are 33 inches which is very much long enough for a LEO pass-rusher.

Sorry, don't have time to watch a 30 minute video.

His arms are "long enough" but not elite. He is shorter than you would like. He is 250 lbs... Not really explosive in his combine or pro day numbers....

Like I said - I may be wrong, but I see him as a late 1st-2nd round pick.

SuperJville · 04-20-2016, 09:57 PM

Quote:I'm not saying he's as good of a prospect as Von Miller or anything, but the only other guy that's as good off the edge in this draft is Lawson IMO. Not many others compare and part of that is because there aren't many edge rushers in this draft. Bosa is stronger and better against the run than Spence, but I don't see how anyone could see him being quicker. Spence also will throw out different moves when something isn't working or when he's trying to get off of a block, Bosa doesn't. I don't see how Bosa could be a better LEO than Spence at the present time. Maybe with coaching it'll be different.

I don't care about labels like LEO... I just want a good player. Michael Bennet isn't a Leo but he's a great player. Overall Bosa is a better player and more versatile IMO.