Hyperbole much? Message boards aside he hasn't lived up to his draft expectations. And that applies to about 24 or 25 other teams picking in the first round of that horrible draft. Seriously only about 7 first round draft picks have played up to their draft status.

That's about average in a given draft. Go back and look at 2012, 2011, 2010 most of those 1st rounders didn't pan out. 2013 wasn't some anomolly we just missed thank God it looks like we struck gold in 2014.

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I can work with that......so we are in agreement Luke J. has reached his ceiling and should be replaced at the first opportunity?

Cut bait on joeckel and gratz I'd keep cyp around and see if he figures it out.

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I can work with that......so we are in agreement Luke J. has reached his ceiling and should be replaced at the first opportunity?

 

I'm on board with replacing Luke Joeckel if something better is available.  I don't believe he needs to be replaced just to be replaced.  I believe we can do a lot worse at LT than Luke Joeckel (Heck before Luke we had been doing a lot worse - Bradfield et al).

 

If someone better than Luke is available I'm all for it, as I don't see Luke as an all-Pro LT in any, way, shape or form.  I do believe he's better than a lot of other tackles who you could just stick out there.

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There is no way I would give up on Cyprien.  Get that defense better and Cyprien can be a player.  The collective fan base gave up on Reggie Nelson, he got in a better situation and become a much better player.  Same very well could occur with Cyp.  I'd not be ready to cut bait.  Just need to improve the team.

 

The difference between Cyp and Nelson is that Nelson showed the ability/potential to be a ballhawk his rookie season. The team just switched schemes the next year, Nelson couldn't grasp the scene, and subsequently completely fell apart. He definitely needed to be traded and get a clean slate. Cyp, at his absolute peak that we've seen, looked like a guy who could tackle and every once in a while blow a play up in the backfield. Cyp hasn't flashed nearly as much as Nelson did.

 

Speaking of Cyp, and to a lesser extent Darius Slay who was mentioned by D6 up above, I went looking for a quip from Caldwell I heard earlier today (and referenced in another thread) and found this interesting tidbit;

 

Before the second round, in which Jacksonville held the first pick, the Jaguars had John Cyprien, Zach Ertz and Darius Slay atop their board. With three teams inquiring about a potential trade-up, Jacksonville ran the numbers on the probability one of those guys would be left in the 40s. Statistics showed it was likely. But Caldwell decided he liked Cyprien too much to risk losing him and took the Florida International safety with the No. 33 pick. The other two players were gone by 36.

 

Source: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000...ebut-draft

 

Definitely interesting to think how different this team would look had they gone with either Ertz or Slay instead.

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"The season's not over... we still have a bunch of games to lose..." - TemporaryName

 


"The middle of the field is like Narnia to us, we don't believe it really exists" - Marvsin


 

Maybe my eyes are broken, but I don't see where he mentions Aaron Donald at all. I do see where he mentions their safety TJ McDonald though.

Oh my bad. Don't no much about TJ

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That's about average in a given draft. Go back and look at 2012, 2011, 2010 most of those 1st rounders didn't pan out. 2013 wasn't some anomolly we just missed thank God it looks like we struck gold in 2014.

You may want to double check that.

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"Before you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry, he's a mile away and barefoot."

The difference between Cyp and Nelson is that Nelson showed the ability/potential to be a ballhawk his rookie season. The team just switched schemes the next year, Nelson couldn't grasp the scene, and subsequently completely fell apart. He definitely needed to be traded and get a clean slate. Cyp, at his absolute peak that we've seen, looked like a guy who could tackle and every once in a while blow a play up in the backfield. Cyp hasn't flashed nearly as much as Nelson did.

 

Speaking of Cyp, and to a lesser extent Darius Slay who was mentioned by D6 up above, I went looking for a quip from Caldwell I heard earlier today (and referenced in another thread) and found this interesting tidbit;

 

 

 

 

Source: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000...ebut-draft

 

Definitely interesting to think how different this team would look had they gone with either Ertz or Slay instead.

We would probably still have gone 5-11 with Slay or Ertz.

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I can work with that......so we are in agreement Luke J. has reached his ceiling and should be replaced at the first opportunity?

 

  If the Jags want to replace Luke J.,  they will have the opportunity in the 2016 Draft   It could come down to drafting a LT vs. the best available Defensive player.   With Blake Bortles being the most important player the Jags have had this decade,  keeping him in one piece is a priority of the highest order for the Jaguars organization.   Of course having a better Defense puts the Offense in more favorable situations.  But a solid case can be made to take a blue chip LT prospect if the thought process of the team brass is Luke J.  won't come close to living up to his draft billing. 

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We would probably still have gone 5-11 with Slay or Ertz.

 

Heh, I'm not sure I disagree. I just think the makeup of the team would be drastically different. It's not like when Gene was drafting and he had his one guy that he needed to get that round, so there was never any "what if he went this way instead?" type theories, outside of the hindsight fan-theories. Here, though, we know that Caldwell was debating between 3 guys, who all play different positions and would have filled a completely different role. It's kind of fun to think how different the team would look if they took a TE in the 2nd back in 2013 instead of a safety; would JT be on the team? Would they have cut Lewis by now? Just sorta things like that.

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"The season's not over... we still have a bunch of games to lose..." - TemporaryName

 


"The middle of the field is like Narnia to us, we don't believe it really exists" - Marvsin


 

  If the Jags want to replace Luke J.,  they will have the opportunity in the 2016 Draft   It could come down to drafting a LT vs. the best available Defensive player.   With Blake Bortles being the most important player the Jags have had this decade,  keeping him in one piece is a priority of the highest order for the Jaguars organization.   Of course having a better Defense puts the Offense in more favorable situations.  But a solid case can be made to take a blue chip LT prospect if the thought process of the team brass is Luke J.  won't come close to living up to his draft billing. 

 

We took a blue chip LT prospect in 2013 and he's still struggling at this point.  Maybe to the point of being bust, but it is quite possible you draft a blue chip LT prospect in this draft and wait 2-3 years while he develops as well.

 

I don't mind drafting an OT, but he better beat Luke out 100% before he gets the starting gig.

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We took a blue chip LT prospect in 2013 and he's still struggling at this point.  Maybe to the point of being bust, but it is quite possible you draft a blue chip LT prospect in this draft and wait 2-3 years while he develops as well.

 

I don't mind drafting an OT, but he better beat Luke out 100% before he gets the starting gig.

 

  Competition usually makes players that are motivated better.   If the Jags use the pick # 5 draft resource on a LT,   I agree with you that he should have to earn his way into the starting lineup.  With the cap space the Jags have,  it would be easy to keep Joeckel even if the Jags draft a LT prospect in Round 1.  

 

  One thing we have seen is that players that are considered the ' can't miss'  types don't always pan out.   Most NFL people likely had Joeckel in the top 3 of the 2013 Draft,  in terms of ratings.  Aaron Curry is another example of a player who didn't pan out,  despite being considered the safest pick in the 2009 Draft.   Because Dave Caldwell has done a good job overall with personnel,  he deservedly has the opportunity to help compensate for the Joeckel pick if he feels it's necessary to go in that direction.   Gene Smith didn't earn the same opportunity for the Blaine Gabbert selection because his draft mistakes were too numerous.

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DO NOT DRAFT AN OL IN THE FIRST ROUND.

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A True Fan ladies and gentlemen:

Ramsey for Grier straight up

DO NOT DRAFT AN OL IN THE FIRST ROUND.

 

^THIS.

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Hopkins, Jordan Reed, Allen are the only 3 huge names that come to mind. Maybe Lacy, but he seems to be a head case.

 

There's a guy who's #3 in the league in sacks that was rumored to be a target, even mocked by a lot (including O-zone) to the Jags.

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There is no way I would give up on Cyprien. Get that defense better and Cyprien can be a player. The collective fan base gave up on Reggie Nelson, he got in a better situation and become a much better player. Same very well could occur with Cyp. I'd not be ready to cut bait. Just need to improve the team.

Reggie was much more talented than Cyp out the gate.

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Its funny how things change. I remember in 2013/2014, everyone was heralding this draft class and I cautioned many to compare this draft to Gene's first draft (which looked great early on). Now 3 years later, and it looks very very sub-par

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Hopkins, Jordan Reed, Allen are the only 3 huge names that come to mind. Maybe Lacy, but he seems to be a head case.

What about Sheldon Richardson?

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Sure, the 2013 draft was bad for us.  But let's not pretend that a lot of people weren't happy with the selections of Joeckel and Cyprien.  And sure it'd be awesome if we had Ansah.  But let's not forget many of us wanted Dion Jordan and some of us (myself included) wanted Geno Smith.  


Bad class for us, but it just pans out that way sometimes.  Caldwell more than made up for it in 2014.

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I was wrong about Trent Baalke. 

Sure, the 2013 draft was bad for us.  But let's not pretend that a lot of people weren't happy with the selections of Joeckel and Cyprien.  And sure it'd be awesome if we had Ansah.  But let's not forget many of us wanted Dion Jordan and some of us (myself included) wanted Geno Smith.  


Bad class for us, but it just pans out that way sometimes.  Caldwell more than made up for it in 2014.

 

DC's 2014 really looks like a great class, and along with finding Blake likely buys him some goodwill. That said...Fowler and whoever we draft #5 has to show flashes this season. So far, DC is batting .500 between Luke and Blake. Fowler is a huge ? due to injuries, but every GM has to deal with unexpected injuries. 

 

No one in the entire history of the Jaguars has gotten the benefit of FOUR top five picks (TC two, Shack 0, Gene 1 in a trade up). 

 

Gus is on the hot seat, but I still believe that DC isn't quite safe as some think he is.

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DO NOT DRAFT AN OL IN THE FIRST ROUND.

 

I wouldn't worry about that.

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The sun's not yellow, it's chicken.