I'm arguing because I love discussing/debating football.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Anchorman...my apologies for not quoting your post.  There is a quirk on my home computer that seemingly precludes me from properly utilizing the quote feature, and I'm not smart enough to figure it out.

 

Believe me, I do not ignore defense.

 

I love dominant defense, and one of the most disheartening things about how the game has evolved-especially in recent years-is the near neutering of great defensive football by the rules.  Great defenses like The Steelers-Raiders-Cowboys of the 1970s, the 1985 Bears, 1980s Parcells-Belicheck-Taylor-Banks led Giants-and the Buddy Ryan Era Eagles of the 1980s and 1990s couldn't really thrive today.  Hard hitters like Ronnie Lott, Todd Bell, Gary Fencik  and Wes Hopkins would be all but legislated out of the game.

 

But I think the 1980s saw football take a decidedly offensive turn and it's gotten further and further away from defense.  That turn impacted both the professional and college levels...and now down to high schools.  I think fans have been influencd by these developments.

 

 

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Point is, what did that season get us? Nowhere. That season we beat the Steelers 9-0, we also shut out another team too....


In the end though, we never could score enough points for that team to make the playoffs.


You can cherry pick games like the 9-0 Steeler game, and they are good as a novelty....but 13-10 games are boring and consistent 13-10 type games suggest an offense that is either far to conservative, not good enough or both. You're not having much success in the playoffs with that style of play. Not in this current era of football.

Jesus dude. You talk about cherrypicking. I can cherrypick a ton of teams that score a bajillion points and done nothing.


Winning is freakin' winning. I do not care how it happens. Just because YOU want to see it a particular way doesn't make it 'RIGHT'.

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Point is, what did that season get us? Nowhere. That season we beat the Steelers 9-0, we also shut out another team too....

 

In the end though, we never could score enough points for that team to make the playoffs. 

 

You can cherry pick games like the 9-0 Steeler game, and they are good as a novelty....but 13-10 games are boring and consistent 13-10 type games suggest an offense that is either far to conservative, not good enough or both. You're not having much success in the playoffs with that style of play. Not in this current era of football. 

Unless I am mistaken you made the claim that fans will not embrace defense and want to see an explosive offense.  I disagree and was not cherry picking a 9-0 game but to say that the house was rocking.  The fans were fully engaged, enthusiastic and embraced every hard hit, every bone crushing tackle, every stuff at the line of scrimmage and every single pass break up.  Winning a defensive slug fest will be embraced as much as a shootout.  The point I am trying to make is winning regardless of style will bring in the fans; however if you have an explosive offense and are not winning you will put more butts in the seats than with a conservative game plan.  I have said since I have been on here that I would not mind losing as much if the team is fun to watch.  I'll add to that statement with give me a win over a loss regardless of how it was achieved and I think an over whelming majority of fans agree with me.

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Original Season Ticket Holder - Retired  1995 - 2020


At some point you just have to let go of what you thought should happen and live in what is happening.
 

Jesus dude. You talk about cherrypicking. I can cherrypick a ton of teams that score a bajillion points and done nothing.


 

 

Dan Marino and the Dolphins, Dan Fouts and the Chargers, would be two examples. 

 

I understand why the NFL changed the rules to favor the offense.  It's so they can draw in the people who really don't care about the intricacies of a great defense, but just want some action.   But that's not me.   Personally, I hate it that they neutered the defense and made the pretty-boy QB so all-important they might as well put a skirt on him.  

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Agreed and don't think we should be taking attendance advice from someone who doesn't attend games.

This

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I'm arguing because I love discussing/debating football.

me too!

I used your quote to continue my point of view regarding how I fell in love with the Jaguars. The D was what cinched it for me. Man that 2008 D-Line was gangster in all sense of the word. Stroud and Henderson? Are you kidding me? How can you not love that?

But yes, as I stated before, your analysis for the most part is spot on, as usual. I grew up watching Marino and thinking he was a GOD in all sense of the word. But he never had a D that could help him. As I got older, I realized how important that is.

The consequences you are talking about I think are pretty deep. Kids get hooked on the scores as youngsters. And then to compound the SportCenter mentallity of the highlight real is that there are no other alternative avenues for them to get their football talk. The ESPN model has become the hedgemony of NFL talk. You can't turn on the TV and get an alternative POV other than the focus on QB and WR/TEs. Dude, we've all even begun to downplay the importance of a running game. It's gotten crazy. Yes, in a passing league, the RB is less. But a running game is important especially if you're trying to run down the clock I think there is about to be a big pendulum swing back to the running game.

Shoot-outs are great, but if you have a stout D, in the playoffs, it can work to your benefit. The whole concept of 16 games won at by 3 points where neither team scores 14 points is a false premise. But a team that can toast a QB and stifle the rythm of an offense is a big deal.

Whether some people like to admit it or not... The SB's the Giants won was with a mediocre/pretty good Eli Manning with a monster D that destroyed the HOF'er Brady. That's gotta be worth something, even in this QB love happy NFL.

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To me, a sack is the most exciting play I could possibly see at the stadium.

 

I think it's because sacks have been more rare than TDs for us, which is quite sad.

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A great portion of the game is the D. To ignore it means you're ignoring a huge part of the struggle that happens on Sundays.

 

No one including myself is saying to ignore the defense. 

 

To the person that brought up San Fran's good defense in the 1980's/ 90's.....did you ever consider how much easier it is to play defense when you are usually ahead by double digit points? You basically force your opponent to be one dimensional at that point, making them pass more, creating more 2nd/ 3rd & long opportunities, and tee off, creating even more chances for sacks/ fumbles/ INT's. 

 

Unless I am mistaken you made the claim that fans will not embrace defense and want to see an explosive offense.  I disagree and was not cherry picking a 9-0 game but to say that the house was rocking.  The fans were fully engaged, enthusiastic and embraced every hard hit, every bone crushing tackle, every stuff at the line of scrimmage and every single pass break up.  Winning a defensive slug fest will be embraced as much as a shootout.  The point I am trying to make is winning regardless of style will bring in the fans; however if you have an explosive offense and are not winning you will put more butts in the seats than with a conservative game plan.  I have said since I have been on here that I would not mind losing as much if the team is fun to watch.  I'll add to that statement with give me a win over a loss regardless of how it was achieved and I think an over whelming majority of fans agree with me.

 

They'll embrace a defensive minded team such as that 2006 team for small period of time as said like a novelty act, until it gets monotonous and almost every game is the snoozefest 13-10 type of which I speak of. Compounded with the inevitable early bounce from the playoffs if you even make it. 

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Off the field, Khan is the best thing that has ever happened to Jacksonville.

 

Weaver of course deserves eternal thanks for bringing the Jags to Jax in the first place, but other than that Khan is a vastly superior owner in every way. 

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I really don't have the energy to read all this so I'm not sure this even fits in but I love low scoring games with dominant defenses. 

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"Sucess Is Not a Goal, It is a By-product"

I really don't have the energy to read all this so I'm not sure this even fits in but I love low scoring games with dominant defenses. 

 

Two of the best NFL games from my perspective I've seen over the years involved the Giants and 49ers in the 1990 season.

 

On a MNF game in San Francisco in early December of that season,  the 49ers beat the Giants 7-3.   This easily ranks in the top 5 MNF games I can recall.

 

In the NFC Championship game that season in San Francisco,  the Giants beat the 49ers 15-13.  That ended the 49ers quest to 3-peat as Super Bowl Champions.   It's the type of game why Bill Parcells is now in the HOF.

 

In both of these games, every first down was critical.  Field position advantage was at a premium.   While there have been many classic high scoring games,  it's hard to top the low scoring games with two great teams.  

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They'll embrace a defensive minded team such as that 2006 team for small period of time as said like a novelty act, until it gets monotonous and almost every game is the snoozefest 13-10 type of which I speak of. Compounded with the inevitable early bounce from the playoffs if you even make it. 

 

And please tell me when there has ever been any team...ever....that's played almost every game to a 13-10 score.  Or even the majority of them.  

 

I'll wait.

 

I'm sorry, you're wrong.  You're just too stubborn to admit it.  If that's even why you're continuing this.

 

Just from this thread alone you should be able to see that. 

 

And I would bet that the majority of true football fans would rather see wins over anything else.

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Two of the best NFL games from my perspective I've seen over the years involved the Giants and 49ers in the 1990 season.

 

On a MNF game in San Francisco in early December of that season,  the 49ers beat the Giants 7-3.   This easily ranks in the top 5 MNF games I can recall.

 

In the NFC Championship game that season in San Francisco,  the Giants beat the 49ers 15-13.  That ended the 49ers quest to 3-peat as Super Bowl Champions.   It's the type of game why Bill Parcells is now in the HOF.

 

In both of these games, every first down was critical.  Field position advantage was at a premium.   While there have been many classic high scoring games,  it's hard to top the low scoring games with two great teams.  

 

I've been going to games for years.  And I'll tell you right now, there's is nothing more electric than a 'defensive crowd'.  

 

Sacks, fumbled recoveries, interceptions.  Screaming the whole game to help your team on defense.  There's nothing in the world like it.  And if I'm not mistaken from looking around at the other 65,000 or so other people, they seem to be having a really good time too.

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Off the field, Khan is the best thing that has ever happened to Jacksonville.

 

Weaver of course deserves eternal thanks for bringing the Jags to Jax in the first place, but other than that Khan is a vastly superior owner in every way. 

 

AhA! The topic! Totally agree.....Khan is a winner. Weaver also needs to be thanked for selling to him.

 

I've been going to games for years.  And I'll tell you right now, there's is nothing more electric than a 'defensive crowd'.  

 

Sacks, fumbled recoveries, interceptions.  Screaming the whole game to help your team on defense.  There's nothing in the world like it.  And if I'm not mistaken from looking around at the other 65,000 or so other people, they seem to be having a really good time too.

 

It does seem to excite the crowd more....nothing sweeter than putting the beatdown on some arrogant opponent, especially a division one.

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"Stay tight, stay close. Great things are going to continue to happen for this football team."  - Doug Peterson

Why would anyone argue attendance with someone who never attends?   His opinion is meaningless.

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Why would anyone argue attendance with someone who never attends?   His opinion is meaningless.

 

 Just because a person is a non-participant, that doesn't make their opinion meaningless.  Most of us don't play football, but we argue football.

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Why would anyone argue attendance with someone who never attends? His opinion is meaningless.

For some reason he thinks that he has the pulse of the fanbase of the entire NFL, not just Jacksonville. Apparently a win isn't a win in his book. There has to be "style points".


I couldn't disagree more and my opinion is that most fans, regardless of how, would rather see a win than anything.


I don't know. I played sports for an awfully long time, and continue to play some more sedentary sports. I've always been under the impression that there is one object to the game, to win.


Hey....maybe that's just me. But I kinda doubt it.

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Actually no. Just W's don't solve everything. Jack Del Rio thought just W's solve everything - and thought - and strived to (by his actions, not rhetoric) win every game 10-7. Thing is in todays NFL you can beat the bad teams that way, but you aren't getting very far in the playoffs or making them consistently by playing that style. 

 

The Jags need to be an explosive offense too. Being an explosive offense will in turn, help you beat the actual good teams in this league in the inevitable shoot out type games you will come across vs some of the better teams with better QB's. 

 

Fans will also enjoy going to a Jaguars home game that features a big play explosive offense rather than Del Rio's cold cereal offenses of the better part of his tenure. 

Winning solves everything.

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TravC59, aka JacksJags. @TravC59 on Twitter
;
; "This is really good, you want a bite, Honey?"

Two of the best NFL games from my perspective I've seen over the years involved the Giants and 49ers in the 1990 season.

 

On a MNF game in San Francisco in early December of that season,  the 49ers beat the Giants 7-3.   This easily ranks in the top 5 MNF games I can recall.

 

In the NFC Championship game that season in San Francisco,  the Giants beat the 49ers 15-13.  That ended the 49ers quest to 3-peat as Super Bowl Champions.   It's the type of game why Bill Parcells is now in the HOF.

 

In both of these games, every first down was critical.  Field position advantage was at a premium.   While there have been many classic high scoring games,  it's hard to top the low scoring games with two great teams.  

 

But D6....

 

Part of the reason, IMO, why you remember those fondly is because they were novelty games. i.e. don't happen all that often. 

 

If every game started to be a 15-13 type game, trust me, it would get old REAL QUICK. Most fans don't want that kind of game on a consistent basis. Every now & then? Sure. 

 

The way the Jaguars tried to win games during the dark ages of 2003-2011 was a flat out snooze on both sides of the ball. Conservative on both sides of the ball. 

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