Truly elite QB can and do elevate the talent around them. But the offense has to have SOMETHING other than the QB. 

 

You say that I have cited Manning as a QB that made good with a bad OL, thats true - he also had Harrison/ Wayne and a good running game with Edge at the time. 

 

You say that I cited Brady as a QB that made good with a lack of WR options, thats true - but he also consistently had one of the better OL in the sport blocking in front of him. 

 

Luck has nothing. He's got poor receiving weapons, NO running game, and a bad OL. How is he supposed to succeed?? The fact that he's in this situation and they still are going to win the division and Luck still has half decent numbers is a credit to him. 

 

As said in other threads - put Luck on the current Bengals offense and you have a superbowl team. 

STILL not what you said when this argument pertained to a Jaguar player. You discounted the entire notion and said that elite QB's are elite despite those around them. We don't have the old board to reference, and I really don't have the time, nor the inclination to reference it. I'm sure more than enough people here know exactly what I'm talking about.

 

According to you now, it's a perfectly acceptable excuse for another team. It will never be an excuse for the Jags though.

 

Either it's right or it's wrong. I won't even debate which is which. What I will say is you're playing both sides of the field. That's not debatable.

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What lies behind us, and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.







 

STILL not what you said when this argument pertained to a Jaguar player. You discounted the entire notion and said that elite QB's are elite despite those around them. We don't have the old board to reference, and I really don't have the time, nor the inclination to reference it. I'm sure more than enough people here know exactly what I'm talking about.

 

According to you now, it's a perfectly acceptable excuse for another team. It will never be an excuse for the Jags though.

 

Either it's right or it's wrong. I won't even debate which is which. What I will say is you're playing both sides of the field. That's not debatable.

 

who are you talking about?? What Jagiar player? I have no idea what you are referring to. 

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sir, bortles, please... Somewhere in this draft.... To Jacksonville...

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Funny, you used to beat the exact opposite drum when this was used as an excuse for Jaguar quarterbacks. You used Manning as an example when the O-line problems were presented, and used Brady when the receiver problems were presented in the past. You said that truly elite QBs elevate those around them, not need those around them to elevate him.

 

So, what changed? Do the Jags just have a completely different set of rules in your book?

 

NOTHING changed.  What changed was the rhetoric.  Thank you for pointing this out.  I've been reading so many posters backtracking on QBs, what you just wrote points out the flaw in hinging all hope of one QB as "elite".

 

I've heard people speaking about Eli, Big Ben, Rivers, etc as elite QBs.  There are only 3 Elite QBs in the league.  

 

All other QBs are only as good as the team and coaching staff that surround them.  Even the 3 Elite QBs haven't won a SB in quite a few years.  Yeah, those 3 QBs are consistently in the playoffs, but they do not find ultimate success without support all around.  

 

The Jaguars are in the process of building a contender.  QB is important, but it's not so important that we need to sacrifice.  There are many positions that still need to be addressed.  I'm just kinda getting bored of the MB drooling over the recent crop of QB's that are slated to be selected this year in the upcoming draft.  I'd much rather we focus on getting our O-Line and D-Line set up, QB will fall into position via the GM evaluation.

 

With that said, watching Mccarron against Auburn made me realize that there can be many QBs that have potential in this up coming draft.  If we select a read option QB, I'll be very skeptical.  I prefer a QB that sits in the pocket, makes his progression reads, and is accurate.  

 

I''m a old school football fan.  I find all this running QB non-sense to be short-sighted.

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The draft is a lottery plain and simple.  Even GM's aren't sure how players are going to work out.  Pick your favorite numbers and hope for the best. 

 

While I agree, that draft is a lottery and you can get JaMarcus Russell with 1st pick or Tom Brady with 199th, I also believe, better GM's or teams with better scouting etc. usually gets better players, regardless of their draft position.

 

 

Luck has nothing on offense, other than a midget WR they play on the outside by necessity. 

 

Put Luck on the Bengals offense and we're talking a superbowl team. 

 

 

Uhm.....yeah, Dalton is doing better than Luck because of those weapons. Luck would take a similar team that Andy Dalton QB's further. Always. Thats the point. 

 

What?....you don't think Dalton would be doing just as lousy if not worse if he was QB of the current Colts team?? He'd be doing worse than Luck. 

 

Agree. I don't think Dalton is a bad QB (he's probably around top 15 right now), but can't see Bengals win (or even get into) a Super Bowl with him. With Luck they would be perennial contenders. And as I said in my first post here, I am not the biggest Luck fan and think he's been overhyped by the media back to his Stanford days and all the way into NFL.

 

 

Yes, look at the Falcons and  Julio Jones.   A really good WR, to be  sure, but they traded a away a lot of picks to get him and how where are they?  

 

You can also say, they are where they are this season, because JJ got injured (White wasn't healthy most of the season also). When Falcons drafted him, they think, he's the missing piece, who'll get them to SB and he could still do that in the future. If they do win a SB with Jones as important part of the team, then I'd say, that trade work out for them.

 

That said, I agree with you and if I were a GM, wouldn't trade "a whole draft" for one (college) player. There is too much risk involved. Something different with proven NFL players. If my team was set on other positions and only need a QB, then I'd trade "everything" for Rodgers (Peyton, Brady and Brees are probably too old to justify a trade). But that's just hypothetical, as we all know, franchise QBs are not traded. 

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Anchorman is so right- build the lines.

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Season Ticket holder since 2004.

 

        

We seem to have missed pretty hard between 6-10 in our history and it looks like we will be there again. Lets hope our luck has turned.

 

Picks between 6-10 in our history. Certainly trended in the wrong direction.

 

Gabbert

Alualu

Harvey

Reggie Williams

Leftwich

Henderson

F. Taylor

sure started strong with taylor and henderson coughlin still here i believe

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"If this team gets lessons from losing they should all be Einsteins by now."---Jaguarmvp

 

"Football is not played on paper, its played inside Televisions"---Random Poster BCC

Luck has nothing on offense, other than a midget WR they play on the outside by necessity. 

 

Put Luck on the Bengals offense and we're talking a superbowl team. 

 

The Colts can just use their #1 pick to get a starting stud WR next year...oh wait, they don't have one! haha, I hate the Colts.

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60% of the Time...It works everytime...

The Colts can just use their #1 pick to get a starting stud WR next year...oh wait, they don't have one! haha, I hate the Colts.

Karma

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Luck has nothing on offense, other than a midget WR they play on the outside by necessity. 

 

Put Luck on the Bengals offense and we're talking a superbowl team. 

Luck doesn't even make smart decisions with the ball a lot of times.

 

Lets not act like he's not responsible for his bad play up until this week.

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THERE IS A SKELETON INSIDE OF YOU.

 

RIGHT NOW. THIS IS NOT A JOKE.

Is it Karma or is it Luck?  He is good for sure - but I wish people did not think that we could never beat him - I think we can in the future- we just have to trust the process and out coaches and GM - we can beat him in the future I am sure of it!

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Luck doesn't even make smart decisions with the ball a lot of times.


Lets not act like he's not responsible for his bad play up until this week.

I said this a few weeks ago.


For as great as he's supposed to be, he sure has his fair share of 'what the hell?' moments.

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I absolutely HATE when people say "There is no Andrew Luck in this draft". Of course there isn't! An Andrew Luck-type player is a very rare thing.

 

You mean an average QB is a rare thing?

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Andrew luck will end up a top 10 qb within a couple years, if he isnt already. Colts need to build a team around him, and trading away picks isn't the way to do it. Hopefully they keep trading 1st round picks for average players, because we don't want Luck having even a decent supporting cast.

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No commercial messages in sigs

I absolutely HATE when people say "There is no Andrew Luck in this draft". Of course there isn't! An Andrew Luck-type player is a very rare thing.

 

I think there is an Andrew Luck in this draft.   The difference this time is, we don't have any idea who it will be.   But I guarantee you there is a player in this draft that will wind up as a first ballot Hall of Famer.   Let's hope the Jaguars win the lottery this time and get him in the 3rd round. 

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I said this a few weeks ago.


For as great as he's supposed to be, he sure has his fair share of 'what the hell?' moments.

 

Yes, that happens where theres no decent weapons on offense around you. 

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Actually I remember giving Garrard (and especially Dirk Koetter) credit for the 2007 season when he produced despite what I thought were a weaker supporting cast, WR wise.


So you are wrong.


Plus, the Jags at least had a combo of Fred Taylor/ MoJo to help take focus away. Andrew Luck has nothing. Their passing weapons, running game and OL all suck.

No he isn't just because you can give one example doesn't mean he is wrong

For example just because you don't masturbate for a day doesn't make you any less of a w.... This stuff writes itself

You sure did use the Manning example to prove your point and now to the contrary get over it you twist like a twisty turny thing

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No he isn't just because you can give one example doesn't mean he is wrong

For example just because you don't masturbate for a day doesn't make you any less of a w.... This stuff writes itself

You sure did use the Manning example to prove your point and now to the contrary get over it you twist like a twisty turny thing

 

sounds like you have yourself a little problem there...  

 

and I still stand by everything I said about Manning. Great QB do make those around them better. But they have to have some sort of good pieces on offense already. Which Peyton did, and which Luck does not. 

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sir, bortles, please... Somewhere in this draft.... To Jacksonville...

 

I don't get the hype here.  Bortles disappoints me.  He looks not very good.

 

Yes, that happens where theres no decent weapons on offense around you. 

 

It's true that Luck doesn't have a lot, but Peyton had comparable levels of talent and won with that team.  Luck isn't as good as Peyton and IMO, won't ever be.  He isn't capable of putting the team on his back, and when the division toughens up, the Colts will just be the second place team methinks.

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I don't get the hype here.  Bortles disappoints me.  He looks not very good.

 

 

It's true that Luck doesn't have a lot, but Peyton had comparable levels of talent and won with that team.  Luck isn't as good as Peyton and IMO, won't ever be.  He isn't capable of putting the team on his back, and when the division toughens up, the Colts will just be the second place team methinks.

 

I don't think Luck is as good as Peyton nor will ever be either.....that said, I never remember at any time during Peyton's Colts career where they were as decimated on offense as Luck is. Right now they have a garbage OL, a garbage running game, and no WR weapons of consequence. 

 

Peyton at least had Edge for most of his Colts career, and also had at least Harrison or Wayne or both for his entire Colts career. Not to mention the TE weapons Peyton had. 

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