Here is the only place anyone is scared about it.  My point stands, as it always has.  But you can ignore that again if you like.

I pointed out multiple times over a month before the combine that I was reading a different scout/analyst almost daily mentioning how concerned teams are about Allen's shoulders. Now it's a dull roar.

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You really think no one is scared about it? You really think NFL teams have zero concern over a guy getting two surgeries in his shoulders as a dlineman? Im not sure how you can come to that conclusion.

He clearly has his own echo chamber, a very small one at that. There's no way he could have any sizeable streams of info and not see a plethora of worry about Allen's shoulders. 

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What individual team doctors have to say about Jon Allen's medical report will have major impact on each team's evaluation of him IMO. 

 

I'd love to know what the doctors from the top ten teams in the draft have to say about Allen's shoulders. 

 

Personally - I haven't read enough about his condition to be all that hesitant of taking him at four - so a professional opinion would be the deciding factor for me  - and most GMs are probably in the same boat. 

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He clearly has his own echo chamber, a very small one at that. There's no way he could have any sizeable streams of info and not see a plethora of worry about Allen's shoulders.

thats not even an info thing thats just logic. Since when is having two shoulder surgeries as a dlineman something that you logically would assume is being brushed off?

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It's not, and there's no one way to draft. Teams have swung for the fences and won. Teams have also drafted "base hits" and won. But the point of this board is to discuss these types of things even if we won't know for another few years whether we are right or wrong.

 

I know. I am basically saying that anyone who says we shouldn't take a TE at 4 just because its a tight end getting drafted at 4 is a naive stance in my opinion.

 

If you are betting on the guy being the best pick, then who cares if you take him at 4 vs 8. 

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Coughlin when asked if winning will be a focus: "What the hell else is there? This is nice and dandy, but winning is what all this is about."

I pointed out multiple times over a month before the combine that I was reading a different scout/analyst almost daily mentioning how concerned teams are about Allen's shoulders. Now it's a dull roar.

 

You act like this is your first draft.

 

Probably because like this one, you've had your head in twitter the entire time and not in reality.

 

This smoke happens every year.

 

And every year, the big guys like Allen still go at the top.

 

Same was done with Clowney, Leonard Williams, even Watt (people here argued he as too big and not what we needed, yadda, yadda...), people even tried to "drop" Mario Williams from the top overall spot.  Every year people bite on the nonsense and it never comes to fruition.

 

It's the same reason some folks' heads spun when they couldn't reconcile they were on the wrong path thinking Bridgewater was going to be drafted high.

 

Some never learn.  They ignore reality, then wonder why no one else is thinking the same way they do.  There's a reality disconnect that will never be bridged, until these faux analysts recognize their flaws in thinking.

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"You do your own thing in your own time. You should be proud."

I pointed out multiple times over a month before the combine that I was reading a different scout/analyst almost daily mentioning how concerned teams are about Allen's shoulders. Now it's a dull roar.

 

thats not even an info thing thats just logic. Since when is having two shoulder surgeries as a dlineman something that you logically would assume is being brushed off?

 

<p style="font-family:Georgia, serif;font-size:17px;color:rgb(59,59,59);">“My shoulder feels good,” Allen said. “Every doctor said if there is a problem it’s after football, way after football. I have no concerns at all.”

<p style="font-family:Georgia, serif;font-size:17px;color:rgb(59,59,59);">Allen said that he has arthritis in his left shoulder, but doctors did not place restrictions on any type of workouts he may do because of it.

<p style="font-family:Georgia, serif;font-size:17px;color:rgb(59,59,59);">“It might be a problem 15-20 years down the road,” Allen added. “This is probably the best I felt in the past four years.”

<p style="font-family:Georgia, serif;font-size:17px;color:rgb(59,59,59);"> 

<p style="font-family:Georgia, serif;font-size:17px;color:rgb(59,59,59);">So unless you guys have connections with any team doctors, this is the best and most complete info we have to go on right now. Maybe team doctors dig deeper and have a differing opinion, but right now, like i said, we have to take jon allen at his word. If he is being truthful, then no, no team would be concerned. It is not logic, because you have literally no idea what you are talking about. The only people that do know what they are talking about will be Allen, the scouting teams, and the doctors. You are none of those things. What you are doing, is called speculation, not logic. 

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Coughlin when asked if winning will be a focus: "What the hell else is there? This is nice and dandy, but winning is what all this is about."

And every year, the big guys like Allen still go at the top.

 

Same was done with Clowney, Leonard Williams, even Watt (people here argued he as too big and not what we needed, yadda, yadda...), people even tried to "drop" Mario Williams from the top overall spot.  Every year people bite on the nonsense and it never comes to fruition.

Not sure why you are making this odd comparison between actual big people and good athletes vs Allen. He is neither of those. 

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I know. I am basically saying that anyone who says we shouldn't take a TE at 4 just because its a tight end getting drafted at 4 is a naive stance in my opinion.

 

If you are betting on the guy being the best pick, then who cares if you take him at 4 vs 8. 

I agree.

 

Look back in past drafts and it seems its always asked

 

"Why was so-and-so available outside of the top 10?"

 

Then you hear the talk about so-and-so's position, and then you look at the busts ahead of him and they are filled by QBs, DEs, LTs, CBs...so-called premium positions.

 

With the exception of QB (and maybe a true pass rushing DE), which I think you have to pretty much take if you think he can be that guy even if you have someone rated higher than him, sometimes you just have to take the guy you think is either the best or will be the best.

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Exactly.  

 

When Calais or Malik needs a breather, do we have another impact player to replace them?  Nope, so Allen or Thomas would be great in that regard.  

 

So you wanna take a rotational player with our first round pick? No way! I want to use that pick on an impact player who is on the field almost every down. You can find rotational players later in the draft.

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So you wanna take a rotational player with our first round pick? No way! I want to use that pick on an impact player who is on the field almost every down. You can find rotational players later in the draft.

 

i think it is pretty clear that you dont really understand how things work. 

 

edit: got pulled away for a second, but generally rookie players get eased into the lineup anyway. the DL is an important group to keep fresh. if you go back and watch any football game, the lineman rotate out pretty regularly. no one was saying they want allen so that he can be a rotational player his whole career, just that even though we have campbell and malik on the line right now, there is still plenty of playing time for allen. players get tired, injured, retire....you dont pass on elite guys in the trenches because youre good for right now.

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Coughlin when asked if winning will be a focus: "What the hell else is there? This is nice and dandy, but winning is what all this is about."

Not sure why you are making this odd comparison between actual big people and good athletes vs Allen. He is neither of those. 

 

Keep jawing all you want, but he'll be drafted high regardless of your take or how you feel about him being drafted high.

 

This is not Myles Jack who will fall out because of medical concerns.

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"You do your own thing in your own time. You should be proud."

Keep jawing all you want, but he'll be drafted high regardless of your take or how you feel about him being drafted high.

 

This is not Myles Jack who will fall out because of medical concerns.

I don't play the will or won't game, front offices do stupid stuff on the regular. I play the should or shouldn't game. 

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I don't play the will or won't game, front offices do stupid stuff on the regular. I play the should or shouldn't game. 

 

you shouldn't keep posting, but you will. 

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Coughlin when asked if winning will be a focus: "What the hell else is there? This is nice and dandy, but winning is what all this is about."

i think it is pretty clear that you dont really understand how things work. 

 

 

I understand how things work, but it makes no sense to spend a first round pick on a guy who isn't gonna be on the field for at least 75% of the defensive plays. Part time players can be found later in the draft. We need full time O-Linemen and a full time RB before we go looking for rotational guys. Teams like New England can afford to make luxury picks in round 1, we can't. 

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I understand how things work, but it makes no sense to spend a first round pick on a guy who isn't gonna be on the field for at least 75% of the defensive plays. Part time players can be found later in the draft. We need full time O-Linemen and a full time RB before we go looking for rotational guys. Teams like New England can afford to make luxury picks in round 1, we can't. 

 

i elaborated on my post a little bit earlier.

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Coughlin when asked if winning will be a focus: "What the hell else is there? This is nice and dandy, but winning is what all this is about."

I understand how things work, but it makes no sense to spend a first round pick on a guy who isn't gonna be on the field for at least 75% of the defensive plays. Part time players can be found later in the draft. We need full time O-Linemen and a full time RB before we go looking for rotational guys. Teams like New England can afford to make luxury picks in round 1, we can't.

Taking a top pass rushing talent isn't a luxury pick unless you have bucket loads of them already. Which we don't have.

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Taking a top pass rushing talent isn't a luxury pick unless you have bucket loads of them already. Which we don't have.

Exactly.  Can never have too many and we don't have an elite defensive line or anything.

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Taking a top pass rushing talent isn't a luxury pick unless you have bucket loads of them already. Which we don't have.

 

Exactly.  Can never have too many and we don't have an elite defensive line or anything.

 

One injury to campbell, jackson, or even day and we suddenly get pretty thin on the line. 

 

i dont think taking allen is a pressing need or anything like that. it all depends where the jags have him rated, but in my mind he would be a great pick.

 

ive said before the jags have done good work with the players we have. we are at a point where we could draft numerous guys at 4 and it would make sense. i dont envy dave or toms job this year. 

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Coughlin when asked if winning will be a focus: "What the hell else is there? This is nice and dandy, but winning is what all this is about."

I don't play the will or won't game, front offices do stupid stuff on the regular. I play the should or shouldn't game. 

 

Yup, only stupid because it isn't what you would do.

 

We get the shtick already, it's old and tired.

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"You do your own thing in your own time. You should be proud."