Von miller and demarcus ware tortured qbs and won a championship. Malik jackson was there. Im not paying the guy who was just THERE. Football 101.

 

Malik Jackson is a monster, he's one of the best DT's in football and has been the last two seasons. Your post shows how much you don't know about the league, Jackson was second in the league amongst DT's in hurries, and while "hurries" don't always translates into stats, it does translate into disruption, and disruption is production in this league.

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Malik Jackson is a monster, he's one of the best DT's in football and has been the last two seasons. Your post shows how much you don't know about the league, Jackson was second in the league amongst DT's in hurries, and while "hurries" don't always translates into stats, it does translate into disruption, and disruption is production in this league.

 

He didn't even start two years ago so to say he's been one of the best DTs for two years is quite a stretch.  He's very good, but I wouldn't put him in the top 10 DTs.

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Isn't as large as it would appear?


Maybe your right, we should probably try to get $150 million under the cap instead of only $100 million. THEN just think of the guys we could sign.

 

You are talking to one of the biggest proponents of spending our money for the last few seasons so the assumption that I'm somehow against spending money is silly.  

 

I would love to spend huge chunks of money and overspend on certain players, but you don't just throw money away because you have it.  Overspend on impact players, not a guy who will be part of a 4 man rotation at 3 and 5 tech.  If you are going to spend $14 million he better be a clear upgrade - which Malik is not.  I'm against spending money on a 3 and 5 tech this season, but you could at least justify Muhammad Wilkerson getting $14 million as he's a proven double digit sack monster who impacts the game.  Malik Jackson is this week's flavor of the month and this board has gone absolutely nuts overvaluing him to the nth degree.  This board does this to a player or two every offseason and Malik Jackson this year is almost exactly like Tashaun Gipson last year.

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He didn't even start two years ago so to say he's been one of the best DTs for two years is quite a stretch.  He's very good, but I wouldn't put him in the top 10 DTs.

 

He didn't have to start in order to be productive, he was incredibly productive in 2014 (especially considering he only "started" 3 games) and absolutely dominant in 2015. Most Bronco fans (they actually watch the games) consider Jackson a dominant-disruptive player, I find it funny that a few Jag fans on this message board who haven't watched Jackson play are "scared" of paying him. If you watched Bronco games you would know how dominant of player he is, which tells me you haven't watched a lot of Bronco games.

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Von miller and demarcus ware tortured qbs and won a championship. Malik jackson was there. Im not paying the guy who was just THERE. Football 101.

 

DT =/= DE

 

Football 098: Remedial Pigskin 

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You are talking to one of the biggest proponents of spending our money for the last few seasons so the assumption that I'm somehow against spending money is silly.  

 

I would love to spend huge chunks of money and overspend on certain players, but you don't just throw money away because you have it.  Overspend on impact players, not a guy who will be part of a 4 man rotation at 3 and 5 tech.  If you are going to spend $14 million he better be a clear upgrade - which Malik is not.  I'm against spending money on a 3 and 5 tech this season, but you could at least justify Muhammad Wilkerson getting $14 million as he's a proven double digit sack monster who impacts the game.  Malik Jackson is this week's flavor of the month and this board has gone absolutely nuts overvaluing him to the nth degree.

 

How do you know this? You're acting as if your word is gospel, when it's not. 

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How do you know this? You're acting as if your word is gospel, when it's not. 

 

Based off production.  His stats are mostly a mirror image of Jared Odrick's.  He offers a little more pass rush and a little less against the run, but they are very similar players.  That isn't a CLEAR upgrade.  That's questionable at best.  A clear upgrade is Muhammad Wilkerson who gets 10+ sacks and is better against the run than both players.

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You are talking to one of the biggest proponents of spending our money for the last few seasons so the assumption that I'm somehow against spending money is silly.


I would love to spend huge chunks of money and overspend on certain players, but you don't just throw money away because you have it. Overspend on impact players, not a guy who will be part of a 4 man rotation at 3 and 5 tech. If you are going to spend $14 million he better be a clear upgrade - which Malik is not. I'm against spending money on a 3 and 5 tech this season, but you could at least justify Muhammad Wilkerson getting $14 million as he's a proven double digit sack monster who impacts the game. Malik Jackson is this week's flavor of the month and this board has gone absolutely nuts overvaluing him to the nth degree. This board does this to a player or two every offseason and Malik Jackson this year is almost exactly like Tashaun Gipson last year.

The thing is guys like Wilkerson will get 20 million like Suh. In his case a franchise tag would be the cheapest route for him. Vinny curry who has 2.5 more sacks than Andre Brach (yeah i was shocked to find that out just now lol) just got paid like 9.5 mil a year lol. Granted thats a different position but the fact remains. Guys who effect the pocket will get paid period.


Wilkerson will get a Suh type deal. Jackson will get somewhere around 12-15. Thats the range his is. Same as Vernon. Miller will be he highest paid defenive player. Vernon will get between 15-18. Thats his range. It is what it is. Caldwell has us in a situation where we can focus on acquiring the player not the hanstrings of the contract. And because the offense is so young we can pay these guys to get them here and possibly free up 60 mil (minimum) again by 2018 to re-sign our own guys. This is a non issue.

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You are talking to one of the biggest proponents of spending our money for the last few seasons so the assumption that I'm somehow against spending money is silly.  

 

I would love to spend huge chunks of money and overspend on certain players, but you don't just throw money away because you have it.  Overspend on impact players, not a guy who will be part of a 4 man rotation at 3 and 5 tech.  If you are going to spend $14 million he better be a clear upgrade - which Malik is not.  I'm against spending money on a 3 and 5 tech this season, but you could at least justify Muhammad Wilkerson getting $14 million as he's a proven double digit sack monster who impacts the game.  Malik Jackson is this week's flavor of the month and this board has gone absolutely nuts overvaluing him to the nth degree.  This board does this to a player or two every offseason and Malik Jackson this year is almost exactly like Tashaun Gipson last year.

You keep throwing your opinions out as fact. $9 million average salary. $14 million contract.


Odrick and Jackson, same player. Those are all your opinions.


The Broncos reportedly offered $10 million/year which he declined because he's seeking $12 million (per the OPs video).


If the Broncos are willing to pay 10, the Jags would be silly not to consider him for 12.


And please don't bring up Alualu as a reason not to sign anyone, cmon.

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Based off production.  His stats are mostly a mirror image of Jared Odrick's.  He offers a little more pass rush and a little less against the run, but they are very similar players.  That isn't a CLEAR upgrade.  That's questionable at best.  A clear upgrade is Muhammad Wilkerson who gets 10+ sacks and is better against the run than both players.

 

Disruption is production! You have a guy that was second in the league in QB hurries last year only behind N. Suh, and ahead of dominant interior D-linemen such as Gerald McCoy, Marcel Dareus etc..., he had 5.5 sacks, that's not a number to "sneeze at" considering his position. Comparing stats is dangerous, while his "production" in numbers are similar to Odrick's, Malik Jackson is a far superior player as he consistently effects the pass game more.

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He didn't have to start in order to be productive, he was incredibly productive in 2014 (especially considering he only "started" 3 games) and absolutely dominant in 2015. Most Bronco fans (they actually watch the games) consider Jackson a dominant-disruptive player, I find it funny that a few Jag fans on this message board who haven't watched Jackson play are "scared" of paying him. If you watched Bronco games you would know how dominant of player he is, which tells me you haven't watched a lot of Bronco games.

Odrick and Jackson had similar sack numbers. Same guy. Would not sign.

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The thing is guys like Wilkerson will get 20 million like Suh. In his case a franchise tag would be the cheapest route for him. Vinny curry who has 2.5 more sacks than Andre Brach (yeah i was shocked to find that out just now lol) just got paid like 9.5 mil a year lol. Granted thats a different position but the fact remains. Guys who effect the pocket will get paid period.


Wilkerson will get a Suh type deal. Jackson will get somewhere around 12-15. Thats the range his is. Same as Vernon. Miller will be he highest paid defenive player. Vernon will get between 15-18. Thats his range. It is what it is. Caldwell has us in a situation where we can focus on acquiring the player not the hanstrings of the contract. And because the offense is so young and can pay these guys to get them here and possibly free up 60 mil (minimum) again by 2018 to re-sign our own guys. This is a non issue.

 

That is absolute insanity.  There is zero way Olivier Vernon, Mr. 7.5 sacks, makes $18 million.  If he gets $18 million Andre Branch gets $10 million.  The salary cap went up 8% and some of you are acting like it went up 50%.  No, players aren't suddenly going to make $10 million dollars more than they would have last year.  Insanity.

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That is absolute insanity.  There is zero way Olivier Vernon, Mr. 7.5 sacks, makes $18 million.  If he gets $18 million Andre Branch gets $10 million.  The salary cap went up 8% and some of you are acting like it went up 50%.  No, players aren't suddenly going to make $10 million dollars more than they would have last year.  Insanity.

 

This your problem, teams aren't going to pay guys based off "numbers" alone, teams also consider how guys "effect" the game. Olivier Vernon and Malik Jackson are disruptive football players, Todd Walsh in his introductory press conference used the word "disruption" several times, for a reason. The Jags had 40+ sacks in 2014, which is a nice number, I personally wouldn't call that 2014 D-line a "disruptive" unit, numbers can be deceiving.

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You keep throwing your opinions out as fact. $9 million average salary. $14 million contract.


Odrick and Jackson, same player. Those are all your opinions.


The Broncos reportedly offered $10 million/year which he declined because he's seeking $12 million (per the OPs video).


If the Broncos are willing to pay 10, the Jags would be silly not to consider him for 12.


And please don't bring up Alualu as a reason not to sign anyone, cmon.

 

If Odrick made $8.5 last year and is the 2nd highest paid LDE in the league, $9 million is obviously a reasonable estimate.  The $14 million contract is what is being brandied about by other posters as saying what they would like to pay for Malik.  Show me what makes Jackson over $6 million dollars better than Jared Odrick.  Please justify it.

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Disruption is production! You have a guy that was second in the league in QB hurries last year only behind N. Suh, and ahead of dominant interior D-linemen such as Gerald McCoy, Marcel Dareus etc..., he had 5.5 sacks, that's not a number to "sneeze at" considering his position. Comparing stats is dangerous, while his "production" in numbers are similar to Odrick's, Malik Jackson is a far superior player as he consistently effects the pass game more.

 

Considering like 15 3T/5T tweeners had higher sack numbers last year than the man that is being talked about as deserving a contract that approaches JJ Watt.  He also doesn't offer the run stopping that Odrick offers as Malik Jackson managed 0 stuffs in 20 games last season.

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This your problem, teams aren't going to pay guys based off "numbers" alone, teams also consider how guys "effect" the game. Olivier Vernon and Malik Jackson are disruptive football players, Todd Walsh in his introductory press conference used the word "disruption" several times, for a reason. The Jags had 40+ sacks in 2014, which is a nice number, I personally wouldn't call that 2014 D-line a "disruptive" unit, numbers can be deceiving.

 

Yes, their pressures and disruption are nice and they should get paid accordingly.  I'm just not willing to pay Olivier Vernon 2 million dollars per year more than JJ Watt.  That's just me though.  You can do that with your imaginery NFL team and I'll not do it with mine.

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Considering like 15 3T/5T tweeners had higher sack numbers last year than the man that is being talked about as deserving a contract that approaches JJ Watt.  He also doesn't offer the run stopping that Odrick offers as Malik Jackson managed 0 stuffs in 20 games last season.

 

In this pass happy league, the d-linemen that get paid are guys that get after the QB.

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DT =/= DE


Football 098: Remedial Pigskin

1.) hes a 3 4 end.


2.) youre right. Why in hell would u pay an interior lineman like an elite edge rusher?


50 million guarenteed 84 million over 6 years for bleeping hurries?


Miami is already trying to restructure suh because they realize how stupid this is.


If marks comes back healthy hell be the most overpaid backup in history

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1.) hes a 3 4 end.


2.) youre right. Why in hell would u pay an interior lineman like an elite edge rusher?


50 million guarenteed 84 million over 6 years for bleeping hurries?

Miami is already trying to restructure suh because they realize how stupid this is.


If marks comes back healthy hell be the most overpaid backup in history

 

Yea there's one minor difference in Jacksonville & Miami's situation, it's about $66million dollars in cap space, it could be a lot more if/when the Jags decide to cut some of the dead weight on this roster.

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That is absolute insanity. There is zero way Olivier Vernon, Mr. 7.5 sacks, makes $18 million. If he gets $18 million Andre Branch gets $10 million. The salary cap went up 8% and some of you are acting like it went up 50%. No, players aren't suddenly going to make $10 million dollars more than they would have last year. Insanity.

Dude you gotta wake up. Players like Dalton are getting 100 million dollar contracts. I just showed you Currys stats and he's getting 9.5 mil. Vernon almost doubled his production. I would put that around 15-18 mil. I did say range because we have seen instances where one team will completely out and over bid other team (e.g. Murray last year).


I understand you assigned a value to these guys. I was hoping we could get Vernon for like 10-12 a year and Curry for like 6 a year as a thrid rotational guy and be set. When i saw what Curry got that automatically adjusted my expectaions for Vernons salary. Not because i though he was worth more but because the market changed. Curry isnt worth 9.5 but that what he's getting now. Guys who effect the qb come a premium. You either draft them then pay em. Or pay them. Either way your gonna pay.



Its not about what you assign there value as. Its about do you feel comfortable giving them that much. If you get a quality player then in my mind it shouldnt matter within reason. Im cool with paying him 14 espcially with the state of defense is in and our healthy cap situation going forward. The situation we currently in makes me fine with bending my own rules of over paying guys because 1) we suck and 2) the cap space we have is amazing coupled with how the structure contracts now. Our contract department is doing a good job with contract structure.



Im not saying you are wrong. I did think like that not to long ago but once it set in how much we really have and that we really dont have to re-sign anybody for at least 2 years we are beyond good. Thats not counting anyone we may draft who becomes a better cheap replacement in that time frame.

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