That's the only Clemons comp I've seen for him, and to me it doesn't make much sense.

 

Just about everyone else has him comped to rush OLBs like Von Miller, which makes him a bad choice for LEO.  Not the best scheme fit for him, IMO.  You could say the same thing for about most of the tweeners in this draft.

 

Let's not get the mindset that Dave will feel forced to make a LEO selection at 3 where there isn't a good LEO fit.  I'm not sure there's a LEO candidate worth the #3 pick.

 

I think you have it backwards.   The LEO is a unique position because 3-4 OLB types actually work better than 4-3 DEs, becuase they have to bend and twist and close gaps from awkward angles.  They line up so far away and have to navigate more space than most DE's, so I honestly don't think a straight-line defender like Fowler is a good fit, he struggles to redirect if his first angle isn't correct.  They also aren't expected to do much against the run and are almost always given one-on-one matchups, so smaller/more agile guys work better.

 

Shane Ray, Vic Beasley, Randy Gregory are all better fits for the LEO than Fowler. 

 

Leonard Williams is the far better pick because we have plenty of good rotating players at LEO but the line depth elsewhere is terrible.  He can be the starting strong side end, and a rotational 3-technique DT with Marks, and Jared Odrick would most likely come off the bench to play the same spots.  If I see Ziggy Hood, Tyson Alualu, and Abry Jones give up a long run while the starters are taking a breather ONE more time...

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Also Josh Evans sucks, and the safety position is so demanding and high pressure that we should have never relied on a 6th rounder, with slow instincts and sloppy tackling, in the position in the first place.

 

I also wouldn't consider Skuta a final solution at Otto.  The team is likely to bring in competition -- we were using a WILL linebacker at Otto last year (J.T. Thomas) because we don't have any Otto linebackers other than Skuta at this point.

 

But offensive line is clearly the biggest need, and there's no guarantee at all that Parnell, who only started 8 games in his career, is the answer at RT.  The young guys (Joeckel, Bowanko, Linder) will still be given a shot to succeed -- Linder's already good, Joeckel has elite tools and just needs to learn how to use them, Bowanko is good in the running game but needs to vastly improve pass protection.  But I'd like to see us replace Zane Beadles sooner rather than later because 1) he suuuuuuuuuucks 2) we've paid pretty much all his guaranteed money in his contract already.

 

Brandon Scherff would be an excellent pick 3 if Williams is gone because he can excel at RT or LG depending on who looks worse between Parnell and Beadles.  I'm really hoping Parnell works out.

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Also Josh Evans sucks, and the safety position is so demanding and high pressure that we should have never relied on a 6th rounder, with slow instincts and sloppy tackling, in the position in the first place.

 

I also wouldn't consider Skuta a final solution at Otto.  The team is likely to bring in competition -- we were using a WILL linebacker at Otto last year (J.T. Thomas) because we don't have any Otto linebackers other than Skuta at this point.

 

But offensive line is clearly the biggest need, and there's no guarantee at all that Parnell, who only started 8 games in his career, is the answer at RT.  The young guys (Joeckel, Bowanko, Linder) will still be given a shot to succeed -- Linder's already good, Joeckel has elite tools and just needs to learn how to use them, Bowanko is good in the running game but needs to vastly improve pass protection.  But I'd like to see us replace Zane Beadles sooner rather than later because 1) he suuuuuuuuuucks 2) we've paid pretty much all his guaranteed money in his contract already.

 

Brandon Scherff would be an excellent pick 3 if Williams is gone because he can excel at RT or LG depending on who looks worse between Parnell and Beadles.  I'm really hoping Parnell works out.

You kind of explain why I like the pick of Fowler at 3. (Although I think Williams, if there is a safe and solid pick)


Fowler may not be the "LEO" prospect. But he can play the position. As well as OTTO (where I think he is better suited).

This versatility adds to his value. He is a Leo, he is an Otto, he allows us to get him on the field with another pass rusher(s) whether it is Skuta, Clemons, Davis, or a combination of the sorts.

 

Scherff at 3 would be terrible value. 

 

Trade back and get Scherff, I guess... but that is like giving up on your FA RT you just signed already

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I think you have it backwards.   The LEO is a unique position because 3-4 OLB types actually work better than 4-3 DEs, becuase they have to bend and twist and close gaps from awkward angles.  They line up so far away and have to navigate more space than most DE's, so I honestly don't think a straight-line defender like Fowler is a good fit, he struggles to redirect if his first angle isn't correct.  They also aren't expected to do much against the run and are almost always given one-on-one matchups, so smaller/more agile guys work better.

 

Shane Ray, Vic Beasley, Randy Gregory are all better fits for the LEO than Fowler. 

 

Leonard Williams is the far better pick because we have plenty of good rotating players at LEO but the line depth elsewhere is terrible.  He can be the starting strong side end, and a rotational 3-technique DT with Marks, and Jared Odrick would most likely come off the bench to play the same spots.  If I see Ziggy Hood, Tyson Alualu, and Abry Jones give up a long run while the starters are taking a breather ONE more time...

 

Not backwards at all.  Many tweeners struggle to bend because they prefer to avoid contact and rely more on speed to go around/by linemen, and tend to get pancaked against the run.

 

Think Akin Ayodele when he tried to play RDE.

 

Had he been LEO, he may have worked out a little better.  He wasn't really a 4-3 linebacker, he wasn't really a 4-3 RDE... but he was ok in a 3-4.  Had he started his career and was groomed at LEO, who knows... that's the risk of tweeners.  Boom or bust.

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"You do your own thing in your own time. You should be proud."

Also Josh Evans sucks, and the safety position is so demanding and high pressure that we should have never relied on a 6th rounder, with slow instincts and sloppy tackling, in the position in the first place.

 

I also wouldn't consider Skuta a final solution at Otto.  The team is likely to bring in competition -- we were using a WILL linebacker at Otto last year (J.T. Thomas) because we don't have any Otto linebackers other than Skuta at this point.

 

But offensive line is clearly the biggest need, and there's no guarantee at all that Parnell, who only started 8 games in his career, is the answer at RT.  The young guys (Joeckel, Bowanko, Linder) will still be given a shot to succeed -- Linder's already good, Joeckel has elite tools and just needs to learn how to use them, Bowanko is good in the running game but needs to vastly improve pass protection.  But I'd like to see us replace Zane Beadles sooner rather than later because 1) he suuuuuuuuuucks 2) we've paid pretty much all his guaranteed money in his contract already.

 

Brandon Scherff would be an excellent pick 3 if Williams is gone because he can excel at RT or LG depending on who looks worse between Parnell and Beadles.  I'm really hoping Parnell works out.

 

Gus Bradley publicly said Skuta will be the OTTO he might be able to play the role based on 49ers play, but according to the things I have read it does seem that DE Shane Ray would be a better fit at LEO than Fowler Jr.

 

I think you have it backwards.   The LEO is a unique position because 3-4 OLB types actually work better than 4-3 DEs, becuase they have to bend and twist and close gaps from awkward angles.  They line up so far away and have to navigate more space than most DE's, so I honestly don't think a straight-line defender like Fowler is a good fit, he struggles to redirect if his first angle isn't correct.  They also aren't expected to do much against the run and are almost always given one-on-one matchups, so smaller/more agile guys work better.

 

Shane Ray, Vic Beasley, Randy Gregory are all better fits for the LEO than Fowler. 

 

Leonard Williams is the far better pick because we have plenty of good rotating players at LEO but the line depth elsewhere is terrible.  He can be the starting strong side end, and a rotational 3-technique DT with Marks, and Jared Odrick would most likely come off the bench to play the same spots.  If I see Ziggy Hood, Tyson Alualu, and Abry Jones give up a long run while the starters are taking a breather ONE more time...

 

I agree I had the Jaguars drafting Leonard Williams in my first and only mock draft a couple months ago, but it seems (like Clowney) a big push will occur right before the draft & he still might go #1 overall....

If he's on the board at #3 I dont see why they would pass on him as he seems to be the safer premium position pick.

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I am not so sure. I think he, and especially Sergio Brown, were signed cheap enough that it could go either way. They are upgrades on what we had, but not so expensive that they are cemented into their roles if someone comes along in the draft that Dave loves.


Skuta has some experience at ILB too, so he could play OTTO while Fowler/Beasley develop for a year and then shift over to be Poz' long term replacement next year. Drafting Beasley at 3 and then Randall day 2 and letting them marinate a while behind Skuta and Brown for some of this year. Next year Beasley is our full time OTTO, Randall the starting FS, Skuta the starting MLB, and Brown returns to being a rotational guy/ace special teams player.

Smh so you know we drafting Beasley?

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Once again all you guys sound like the media, having predictable analyst and mock draft pick. Caldwell is not predictable, and no one will know but the coaching staff who the jags are drafting. SOoooo Can some you guys please stop being predictable! It was just last year everyone thought we were getting Watkins, Greg Robinson, or Bridgewater/ Manziel. All wrong mock picks! Just think about it. And remember how surprise you guys were when Bortles name was called!!!!

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Once again all you guys sound like the media, having predictable analyst and mock draft pick. Caldwell is not predictable, and no one will know but the coaching staff who the jags are drafting. SOoooo Can some you guys please stop being predictable! It was just last year everyone thought we were getting Watkins, Greg Robinson, or Bridgewater/ Manziel. All wrong mock picks! Just think about it. And remember how surprise you guys were when Bortles name was called!!!!

I remember specifically having conversations that I liked Bortles over Bridgewater.

 

There was plenty of speculation that the tinhorns at 1 overall were thinking about taking Bortles.

 

:thanks:

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Once again all you guys sound like the media, having predictable analyst and mock draft pick. Caldwell is not predictable, and no one will know but the coaching staff who the jags are drafting. SOoooo Can some you guys please stop being predictable! It was just last year everyone thought we were getting Watkins, Greg Robinson, or Bridgewater/ Manziel. All wrong mock picks! Just think about it. And remember how surprise you guys were when Bortles name was called!!!!

Someone has learned how to cut and paste. 

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Once again all you guys sound like the media, having predictable analyst and mock draft pick. Caldwell is not predictable, and no one will know but the coaching staff who the jags are drafting. SOoooo Can some you guys please stop being predictable! It was just last year everyone thought we were getting Watkins, Greg Robinson, or Bridgewater/ Manziel. All wrong mock picks! Just think about it. And remember how surprise you guys were when Bortles name was called!!!!

 

Hate to burst your bubble of ignorance, but Hays Carlyon mentioned Bortles as the pick just prior to the draft.

 

Who does he feel will be the pick?

 

Well...

 

https://twitter.com/HaysCarlyon/status/5...9429945344

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"You do your own thing in your own time. You should be proud."

For all we know maybe GM Dave Caldwell will draft LT Humphries or WR A. Cooper, we will have to wait and see...

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Hate to burst your bubble of ignorance, but Hays Carlyon mentioned Bortles as the pick just prior to the draft.

 

Who does he feel will be the pick?

 

Well...

 

https://twitter.com/HaysCarlyon/status/5...9429945344

I would be very excited to see the Jaguars draft DT Leo Williams!!

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Hate to burst your bubble of ignorance, but Hays Carlyon mentioned Bortles as the pick just prior to the draft.

 

Who does he feel will be the pick?

 

Well...

 

https://twitter.com/HaysCarlyon/status/5...9429945344

If you're bursting any bubbles, they're small ones coming from the drool he's wiping off his chin.  No worries.  He's just excited he figured out how to cut and paste right now.

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

I would be very excited to see the Jaguars draft DT Leo Williams!!

 

That's setting itself up to happen, if QBs go 1 and 2 as many are starting to speculate.

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"You do your own thing in your own time. You should be proud."

Not backwards at all.  Many tweeners struggle to bend because they prefer to avoid contact and rely more on speed to go around/by linemen, and tend to get pancaked against the run.

 

Think Akin Ayodele when he tried to play RDE.

 

Had he been LEO, he may have worked out a little better.  He wasn't really a 4-3 linebacker, he wasn't really a 4-3 RDE... but he was ok in a 3-4.  Had he started his career and was groomed at LEO, who knows... that's the risk of tweeners.  Boom or bust.

 

Chris Clemons is a tweener, Andre Branch is a tweener, Ryan Davis is a tweener.  In Seattle Bruce Irvin was a tweener.  It fits Gus's defensive scheme because the scheme exaggerates their ability to win with finesse in space.  If you watch the film the Jags' LEO lines up very far out, almost like a wide 9 set.   You have to side-step so many blockers from the LEO position and you're never going to get a direct route to the sack. 

 

But the good news is, you can't double team them way out there.  The guard would have to pull block to the outside and leave a gaping hole in the B gap.  The whole point of the LEO is to totally isolate the left tackle, without help (because the other guys are busy blocking our other three 300+ pound dudes), and put pressure on him to contain a highly athletic and nimble kind of player he's not used to blocking.  The best part of the LEO to me is being able to chase even the quicker running quarterbacks down -- Chris Clemons doesn't let Andrew Luck escape the pocket without a fight, we learned that week 12.

 

Dante Fowler is ferocious and physical at the line but when I watched his games, he doesn't move side to side very well or come back to the ball when he overpursues the play.  He's great if you want to stick him in the face of an offensive lineman and power right through him, but that's not really what the LEO does.  His backside pursuit and ability to change directions isn't as good as Vic Beasley for example.

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You kind of explain why I like the pick of Fowler at 3. (Although I think Williams, if there is a safe and solid pick)


Fowler may not be the "LEO" prospect. But he can play the position. As well as OTTO (where I think he is better suited).

This versatility adds to his value. He is a Leo, he is an Otto, he allows us to get him on the field with another pass rusher(s) whether it is Skuta, Clemons, Davis, or a combination of the sorts.

 

Scherff at 3 would be terrible value. 

 

Trade back and get Scherff, I guess... but that is like giving up on your FA RT you just signed already

 

I agree that Fowler's not totally incapable of playing LEO, I'm just saying his skillset isn't ideal, and you want to take a scheme fitting player with pick 3 to make sure they pan out.  A player who's great in one scheme can be unproductive in another.

 

Fowler is further away from being an Otto than he is a LEO, though, and that's because the Otto also has to drop back and cover.  Randy Gregory is the only pure pass rusher in this draft that I think is capable of dropping back well enough to play that role.  Otherwise we might as well get a regular LB who is just really good at blitzing.  LIke Shaq Thompson, Lorenzo Mauldin, etc.

 

Scherff isn't great "value" per se... but we know we need him no matter what position he plays.  He can help at a lot of spots on the line.  You're not telling me all 5 of our starters are here to stay -- Scherff is the best lineman and he's capable of playing Tackle if he needs to.

 

Here's an interesting pick that no one is talking about: if Leonard Williams is gone, who's stopping us from taking Danny Shelton?  Shelton next to Marks would be the next Henderson/Stroud.

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