My daughter is a very tolerant person and she calls the media method the Homoschedule.  They have it all plotted out for us and we just need to follow along.

 

Irony to me is Tony commenting at all.  Why comment on a marginal player?  I don't understand the Rams boxing themselves into a corner with the selection.  Could they really cut him?  I really want all of this out of sports.

 

He was asked about Sam.  That's why he commented. 

 

Your last point is one I made at the time, and it's backed up by Dungy's actual point.  The circus surrounding a 7th round pick will make it difficult for the Rams to do anything with Sam.  If he fails miserably, and they cut him, they'll be ripped for it.  It doesn't matter if he's just not very good.  Any normal 7th round pick getting cut would barely make news.  That won't be the case here.

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

His clarification basically points out my main point.  At the time a possible reality show was going to follow him around, and that was beyond the mainstream coverage that would be focused on him.  I can understand why a coach that has to lead a group would think that distracts from the team.

 

http://www.si.com/nfl/2014/07/22/tony-du...m-comments

 

I do not assert Sam would/would not be a distraction.

 

But I do question Dungy's logic on this point.

 

I will not address applying the logic to the first black coaches/players because that has already been addressed.

 

However, I will point out his support for Tebow as problematic for me.

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/200...arterback/

 

Now Tebow and his huge following was considered a distraction by the teams who employed him.

 

This begs the question:  if Dungy would be willing to take on Tebow and his legion of followers, why not the circus surrounding Sam?

 

Of course, there is the disparate importance of position (QB vs. OLB/DE) that may have played a role in the application of the logic. There may have been a perceived gap in talent (1st/2nd round QB vs. Mid-late round OLB/DE) which drives the analysis.  In fairness, Dungy may have also changed his mindset regarding distractions since 2009, though I cannot imagine an NFL coach being overly enthusiastic about embracing distractions, especially Dungy, since his teams were largely devoid of them.

 

But in the remarks I have seen from Dungy, he didn't mention either of these as factors in his decision not to draft Sam.

 

Dungy has long been held in high esteem for not only his keen football acumen and coaching abilities, but his willingness to stand publicly for issues of faith.

 

But I fear he has betrayed his public persona a bit and is not being completely forthcoming for his real reasons for not being willing to draft Sam, as evidenced by his willingness to embrace the media circus that Tebow represented.

 

If he didn't want a gay player on his team due to faith based principles, just say so.  But don't hide behind the fig leaf of "avoiding distractions" when he would have taken on a huge one with Tebow.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

I do not assert Sam would/would not be a distraction.

 

But I do question Dungy's logic on this point.

 

I will not address applying the logic to the first black coaches/players because that has already been addressed.

 

However, I will point out his support for Tebow as problematic for me.

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/200...arterback/

 

Now Tebow and his huge following was considered a distraction by the teams who employed him.

 

This begs the question:  if Dungy would be willing to take on Tebow and his legion of followers, why not the circus surrounding Sam?

 

Of course, there is the disparate importance of position (QB vs. OLB/DE) that may have played a role in the application of the logic. There may have been a perceived gap in talent (1st/2nd round QB vs. Mid-late round OLB/DE) which drives the analysis.  In fairness, Dungy may have also changed his mindset regarding distractions since 2009, though I cannot imagine an NFL coach being overly enthusiastic about embracing distractions, especially Dungy, since his teams were largely devoid of them.

 

But in the remarks I have seen from Dungy, he didn't mention either of these as factors in his decision not to draft Sam.

 

Dungy has long been held in high esteem for not only his keen football acumen and coaching abilities, but his willingness to stand publicly for issues of faith.

 

But I fear he has betrayed his public persona a bit and is not being completely forthcoming for his real reasons for not being willing to draft Sam, as evidenced by his willingness to embrace the media circus that Tebow represented.

 

If he didn't want a gay player on his team due to faith based principles, just say so.  But don't hide behind the fig leaf of "avoiding distractions" when he would have taken on a huge one with Tebow.

 

Very well said

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He was asked about Sam.  That's why he commented. 

 

Your last point is one I made at the time, and it's backed up by Dungy's actual point.  The circus surrounding a 7th round pick will make it difficult for the Rams to do anything with Sam.  If he fails miserably, and they cut him, they'll be ripped for it.  It doesn't matter if he's just not very good.  Any normal 7th round pick getting cut would barely make news.  That won't be the case here.

 

This is what I don't get - what is this huge uproar that will occur if Sam is cut?

 

Do you really think anything will happen that will have any lasting effect on the Rams? Someone please explain it to me.

 

If Sam is cut, either this season or next, what will happen to the Rams? A small number of people will object, and 30 days later it will be business as usual.

 

Did the Tebowites storm the gates of the Jets when he was released? This fear of "distraction" is phony, in my opinion - just a cover for timid GMs and coaches who don't want to deal with anything outside the norm.

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The sun's not yellow, it's chicken.

This is what I don't get - what is this huge uproar that will occur if Sam is cut?

 

 

 

Were you born yesterday? :ermm:

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Dungy also said he would take Manziel...

 

 

It was just as OK when Dungy commented again on Manziel in February.

 

"He is productive, he's a winner," Dungy told Dallas radio station KTCK. "He's a guy that excites his teammates. He gets the most out of everybody around him. That's what you're looking for in a quarterback. But is he talented enough? Can you win with him? Is he going to make plays in the NFL? Absolutely. Should he be a top-five pick? We'll see how that goes. If I'm committed to winning, I'd take him."

 

http://www.si.com/2014/07/21/why-tony-du...ichael-sam

 

Can anyone dispute that Manziel hasn't been a bit of a distraction since being drafted by Cleveland?

 

So now there are at least two documented instances where Dungy would have taken known distractions. 

 

Dungy is being disingenuous here.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

This is what I don't get - what is this huge uproar that will occur if Sam is cut?

 

Do you really think anything will happen that will have any lasting effect on the Rams? Someone please explain it to me.

 

If Sam is cut, either this season or next, what will happen to the Rams? A small number of people will object, and 30 days later it will be business as usual.

 

Did the Tebowites storm the gates of the Jets when he was released? This fear of "distraction" is phony, in my opinion - just a cover for timid GMs and coaches who don't want to deal with anything outside the norm.

 

Have you been living under a rock?

 

If the Rams cut Sam at some point, it won't matter what reason is given.  There is a very vocal segment of our society who will try to make it about his sexual preference.  That small number of people you referenced will get an inordinate amount of media coverage because outlets are almost forced to pander to them. 

---

Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Have you been living under a rock?

 

If the Rams cut Sam at some point, it won't matter what reason is given.  There is a very vocal segment of our society who will try to make it about his sexual preference.  That small number of people you referenced will get an inordinate amount of media coverage because outlets are almost forced to pander to them. 

 

I get your point, but one could argue Dungy is among the group making it about his sexual preference.

 

Dungy has said he would not take Sam due to the distraction, but it is well documented with his saying he would take Tebow and Manziel, and his advocacy for Vick and Plaxico Burress, he is willing to accept distraction.

 

If, as I suspect, Dungy's faith is playing a role in his avoidance of Sam and embracing of other known distractions, that opens up another line of inquiry.

 

Without delving deeply into theological debate, fornication of the heterosexual variety is also frowned upon in Christian circles.  Is it safe to assume Dungy has had straight guys on his team who had sex before marriage?  Is it possible known distractions like Manziel, Vick, Tebow or Burress have also engaged in heterosexual fornication?

 

So if distraction isn't the issue, and living a "sinful lifestyle" does not preclude Dungy from drafting a particular player, what separated Sam from the others?

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Have you been living under a rock?

 

If the Rams cut Sam at some point, it won't matter what reason is given.  There is a very vocal segment of our society who will try to make it about his sexual preference.  That small number of people you referenced will get an inordinate amount of media coverage because outlets are almost forced to pander to them. 

 

This is so true. Just look at all the protests in NY due to the Brooklyn Nets not bringing Jason Collins back. Quite the contrary, there has been more protests in NY against the Nets signing of Collins, than there is that they did not bring him back.

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This is so true. Just look at all the protests in NY due to the Brooklyn Nets not bringing Jason Collins back. Quite the contrary, there has been more protests in NY against the Nets signing of Collins, than there is that they did not bring him back.

 

Sam was a bigger stage to begin with. Bigger stage when/ if the Rams cut him, too. 

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This is so true. Just look at all the protests in NY due to the Brooklyn Nets not bringing Jason Collins back. Quite the contrary, there has been more protests in NY against the Nets signing of Collins, than there is that they did not bring him back.

 

Again, what rock are you hiding under?  The hype around Sam is the main reason he was drafted.  Otherwise, he would have ended up a rookie free agent.  With TV cameras covering his every movement during draft weekend, and then NFL Network and ESPN both literally guilting teams into drafting him by running these packages intended to portray Sam as this heroic figure, there was no way he wasn't going to be drafted. 

 

I contended at the time he came out that it was most likely a ploy to gin up his visibility in the draft in order to assure he would get selected.  I still think that was the intention behind his big announcement.  Otherwise, there was no point.  It wasn't a secret he was gay.  His entire team in college was aware.  Why did he feel compelled to drive the narrative?  Because it was a benefit to him in doing so.

 

If you don't think there would be backlash from a very vocal minority if he's cut by the Rams, you're almost certainly living with your head planted firmly in the sand.  It will be a media circus covering a 7th round cut just like it was a circus covering his selection.

---

Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

I will make a bold prediction:

 

There will be backlash against the backlash, and it will be as strident, organized and herd-like as the backlash against which it is backlashing.

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If something can corrupt you, you're corrupted already.
- Bob Marley


 

If Sam gets cut then the we'll be hearing it was "because he was gay," for months. I wouldn't be surprised if LGBT groups tried some form of protest. 

 

Let's not pretend that this isn't a major possibility. Sam also is, quite honestly, a bigger risk than Plaxico and Vick were. His following rivals Tebow's, but Tebow's following didn't become truly massive until he won a Playoff game. 

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i would not hire Tony Dungy. Never trust a man that doesn't cuss or yell. :yes:

 

Falling Down?... 

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Sam was a bigger stage to begin with. Bigger stage when/ if the Rams cut him, too. 

 

Jason Collins was the first one. He is in Time's 100 most influential people....not athletes...people.

 

Collins is in NY in the center of media world, and a city in the US that is destination for celebrating that lifestyle. Sam was in Missou and now in St. Louis. If there was a city that would loudly protest Collins not being brought back, New York would have been one of it.

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Again, what rock are you hiding under?  The hype around Sam is the main reason he was drafted.  Otherwise, he would have ended up a rookie free agent.  With TV cameras covering his every movement during draft weekend, and then NFL Network and ESPN both literally guilting teams into drafting him by running these packages intended to portray Sam as this heroic figure, there was no way he wasn't going to be drafted. 

 

I contended at the time he came out that it was most likely a ploy to gin up his visibility in the draft in order to assure he would get selected.  I still think that was the intention behind his big announcement.  Otherwise, there was no point.  It wasn't a secret he was gay.  His entire team in college was aware.  Why did he feel compelled to drive the narrative?  Because it was a benefit to him in doing so.

 

If you don't think there would be backlash from a very vocal minority if he's cut by the Rams, you're almost certainly living with your head planted firmly in the sand.  It will be a media circus covering a 7th round cut just like it was a circus covering his selection.

 

The hype around Sam was a mid-round pick. The same way you can assume that he only got drafted due to him coming out is the same way some can argue that the only reason he slid was because he did come out and "became a distraction", as Dungy would refer to his drafting. It's not like Sam was a nobody in college, production wise. Guys who had similar production like that in college who lack some physical attributes (see Dillard, Jarrett) get drafted in the 6th-7th round. To say that the only reason Sam got drafted was because of his announcement screams of the agenda of those who do not agree with him coming out.

 

Everyone in Missou knew about Sam. People at the combine were starting to ask. It was going to come out eventually, so he put it out there so that it came from him, rather than as a rumor mill news break from unknown sources. It is no different than what Ace Sanders did ahead of getting suspended. His story was going to be told regardless, he just preferred that people heard it from him instead of a news blurb.

 

So again, I ask...

 

Why is it that there were more protests in NY for when Brooklyn signed Jason Collins than there is when they let him go? This is not a Tebow-like following. Those who supported Collins didn't support him because they think he had a real shot at making a difference in the NBA, and neither is the case with Sam. It is not about being an MVP or an All-Star appearance, its about acceptance for a group of people (especially young teens) who for the longest time fear that they would not be accepted should they reveal who they are amongst their peers.

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The hype around Sam was a mid-round pick. The same way you can assume that he only got drafted due to him coming out is the same way some can argue that the only reason he slid was because he did come out and "became a distraction", as Dungy would refer to his drafting. It's not like Sam was a nobody in college, production wise. Guys who had similar production like that in college who lack some physical attributes (see Dillard, Jarrett) get drafted in the 6th-7th round. To say that the only reason Sam got drafted was because of his announcement screams of the agenda of those who do not agree with him coming out.

 

Everyone in Missou knew about Sam. People at the combine were starting to ask. It was going to come out eventually, so he put it out there so that it came from him, rather than as a rumor mill news break from unknown sources. It is no different than what Ace Sanders did ahead of getting suspended. His story was going to be told regardless, he just preferred that people heard it from him instead of a news blurb.

 

So again, I ask...

 

Why is it that there were more protests in NY for when Brooklyn signed Jason Collins than there is when they let him go? This is not a Tebow-like following. Those who supported Collins didn't support him because they think he had a real shot at making a difference in the NBA, and neither is the case with Sam. It is not about being an MVP or an All-Star appearance, its about acceptance for a group of people (especially young teens) who for the longest time fear that they would not be accepted should they reveal who they are amongst their peers.

Again, what rock are you living under?

 

The Jason Collins situation is irrelevant.  When the NBA has the same level of fan interest as the NFL, let me know.  The story flashed, then quickly subsided as the media attention went elsewhere.

 

Sam coming out sparked a reality show on the Oprah Network.  That's why the cameras were there when he celebrated his selection as a 7th round player.  You are certainly entitled to believe the party line that he only came out in the most grand way possible by announcing it on national television because he wanted to head off the rumor mongering.  He could have very easily done the same thing quietly by confirming it if asked by teams at the combine.  By doing it in such a visual way, I tend to think he was just trying to get enough of the spotlight to raise his potential draft stock.  In the end, he was drafted, and there was a distinct possibility coming into the draft that he was going to be a rookie free agent. 

 

To say the potential doesn't exist where he could be considered a distraction is bogus.  The Rams saw this as well, and pretty much shut down his reality show once he was on the team.  Clearly they saw that as a potential distraction.  As players are asked on a daily basis about playing with a gay guy because the media is so overly infatuated with such things, they're going to be put in a position where it could also become a distraction, especially; when you're talking about a guy who's a 7th round pick. 

 

To think the potential doesn't exist in the current climate is just bogus. 

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

In fairness to Dungy...more clarification from him today.

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...-comments/

 

There were a couple of things of particular interest...

 

 

So I would not, and I’ve said that many times and been on record when asked about Michael Sam specifically.  No, I wouldn’t have a problem coaching him and I would not have a problem [with] him being on the team, and you make those decisions based on what people bring to the table athletically, and what they can do to make your team better.”

If you make decisions about who is on the football team based on athleticism and what they can do to make the team better, and you wouldn't have any problems coaching him or with him being on the team, why wouldn't you draft him, again?

 

If he's on the team, wouldn't somebody in authority have made the evaluation that he has the athleticism to make the team better?

 

If he means he wouldn't spend a draft pick on him, but would instead sign him as an undrafted free agent, would he be any less of a distraction as a UDFA vs a 7th round pick?

 

 

“Gay marriage and who should be on a football team have nothing to do with each other,” Dungy said.  “Bob Kravitz . . . knows the type of locker room that we had, the type of players.  Not everybody on that team was a Christian, not everybody believed the same things I did.  Not everybody had the same political views.  And that’s fine.  That’s good.  That’s what a football locker room is all about.  But to equate this to gay marriage to me is really silly.”

 

But he didn't come out and say he wouldn't draft those other guys. 

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Were you born yesterday? :ermm:

 

No - but I'm not some drama queen who over-simplifies everything so I can get the attention my mother never gave me.

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The sun's not yellow, it's chicken.

It's amazing how some folks are pretending to ignore Bullseye's posts. You made some great points, Bullseye. Very astute.

 

The hype around Sam is the main reason he was drafted. 

 

Not sure you can say that definitively. He was projected as a 4-7 round pick before he came out.

 

Personally, I think Dungy's faith triggered his comment about Sam. I have no proof of this, just as some folks in this thread have no proof that the reigning SEC defensive player of the year's announcement was some grand "ploy" to get drafted.

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