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To all that are not blaming Bortles

#81

(01-22-2018, 05:41 PM)jaglyn Wrote:
(01-22-2018, 04:37 PM)Kane Wrote: They trusted Blake enough in the first half to throw it a lot. And he was putting up better stats than Tom Turrific until that second half.

They got scared (which I see A LOT in the NFL). Too often teams try to squat on a lead in the 2nd half. No lead is safe. Never squat. Run up the score and let them complain about that.
Don't go from run, pa, drop back, screen, run, run, drop back, run, pa TO run run pass punt.

Players and coaches coming off a 3-13 season and who have never really sniffed a playoff game before this year, are just going to make mistakes in this situation. Compounded by the officiating issue, negating plays that were working, then I think I'm willing to give the Jags a pass.

Agree with the pass! This was an inexperienced team, yet still won 2 playoff games! The loss sucks really bad, but the experience should be huge going forward! Draft a quarterback in the second or third round, and if Blake continues to grow, great! If not, cut ties after 2018 and hope for the best.
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#82

You only need to be the best team on the field that day, is what they say. this is where the Patriots have an edge on most teams, they know how to win when it counts most. well, unless they play the Giants.
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#83

Even when he makes the occasional valid point, I can't take Bklyn seriously when it comes to Bortles.  He has hated on him, bashed him, trashed him, and blasted him from day one.

Here's my take:

Unbalanced and bad officiating was a deciding factor in this game.  I know you have to play well enough to overcome all that.  And the Jags didn't.  But the officiating was clearly biased, though not necessarily in a WWE way as I said last night while I was still raw.  The Patriots got the superstar discount.  Just like MJ used to get no traveling calls against him when he was the biggest traveler the NBA had ever seen up to that point.  But he was MJ and he was the star of the league.  And you can bet your boots that despite the NFL's two major investigations of the Patriots, New England is NFL royalty.  And Tom Brady is the most valuable of its stars.  They got a few calls and many no-calls that affected the outcome of the game.

The PI on AJ against Cooks at the end of the first half was a chicken-scratch call. Both players were engaging one another.  Both players were going for the ball.  And the ball was not catchable, regardless.  If anything, it should have been called on Cooks because of his hitting AJ's helmet.

The quick whistle on Jack's fumble recovery in the 4th quarter robbed the Jags of a potentially game-winning touchdown.

Two no-calls for PI committed against Marcedes when he was being mugged and wrapped by the DB before the ball even arrived.

Grabbing, holding, and wrapping up defensive players by the Patriots offensive line all afternoon was never called.  

The zone, zone, zone defense in the second half is Wash's fault.  You keep riding with what got there and what got you your big lead.  If your spine turns to jelly you will not beat a Belichick coached team.

The vanilla play-calling in the second half in on Hackett.  You have to keep your foot on the gas and keep scoring points.  As long #12 is taking snaps for the opponent, you can bet your backside that they will put them up.  Hackett's lack of faith in Bortles is on him, not on Blake.  And the Patriots making halftime adjustments with Nate having no answer for those adjustments is on Nate.

Bortles played well enough for us to win.  He played mistake-free football, committed no turnovers.  He was one of the few bright spots in the game for the Jags yesterday.  Meanwhile, Robinson is getting schooled by 39 y/o James Harrison, the former baddest man in the game.  The rest of the O-line, an improved asset for much of the second half of the season, couldn't establish dominance over the Patriots defense.  The Patriots!  We're not talking about Vikings or Eagles defense, the Patriots!  Blake Bortles was not your problem yesterday.  This was a team that didn't seize its moment, that came up a step short of its potential.

The Jags lost because, in order of importance, officiating, coaching errors, and execution errors.

All that being said, I love this team.  Love its heart and its grit.  Think we've got a very good coaching staff that will learn and adapt and get better.  And for all those analysts of Fox and ESPN who don't think the Jags even win the division next year, watch and see!  We are the best team in the division and second place ain't even close.
[Image: giphy.gif]
Fix the O-Line!
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#84

(01-22-2018, 05:54 PM)Patty Pat Wrote: You only need to be the best team on the field that day, is what they say. this is where the Patriots have an edge on most teams, they know how to win when it counts most. well, unless they play the Giants.

I was trying to figure out which teams' fans might actually be pulling for the Patriots in two weeks...the Redskins and Cowboys will pretty clearly not want their Division Rival to win the SB when they haven't in..like...well...forever...the Giants will have the added incentive of wanting to remain the only team to have beaten Belichick and Brady in a Super Bowl.  Aside from that, I think it's pretty much everyone else will be pulling for the Eagles.
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#85

As for the theme of the thread, you can't "blame" a player for being who he is...Bortles is a damn good QB, who took his team as far as he could. If his throw to Westbrook had had just a little more air under it and if Westbrook could have kept his balance had he caught the ball, that's a TD and Bortles is a hero today. But, he didn't make the throw he had to make when he had to make it and Gillmore made a heckuva play when he had to make it. I wouldn't "blame" Bortles anymore for the loss than I'd give the credit to gillmore for the win.

one thing I don't understand about the coaching was taking a knee at the end of the first half. two timeouts. a minute to play...a FG at that point with receiving the 2nd half KO. that would have beaten the Patriots at their own game. everybody is saying it was because they didn't trust Bortles. I think that's nonsense. I don't think they trusted themselves to make the right calls.
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#86

(01-22-2018, 08:28 AM)BklynJag Wrote: I agree, he played a decent game. BUT it's because of him we lost this game. The reason : THE TEAM DOES NOT TRUST HIM. Plain and simple. We had one minute left and 2 timeouts right before half and you take a knee. Are you serious ?  It' because they don' trust Bortles not to make a mistake

The same situation happened in the Eagles game and what did they do, they kept there foot on the pedal and scored. Yes the playcalling was bad in second half but I think it' because they didn' trust the QB to not turn it over. Also, not one Blake run today after it worked so much last week. 

This team has to think long and hard if Bortles is the answer.

"The Team Doesn't Trust Him" --- I actually agree to a certain extent with your point.  Is that Blake's fault?  No.  Not based on recent play (including that when we had good play calling in the 1st half) so I'll place the fault on the OC for crawling up in a fetal position during the 2nd half.
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#87

(01-22-2018, 06:40 PM)NYCFan Wrote: As for the theme of the thread, you can't "blame" a player for being who he is...Bortles is a damn good QB, who took his team as far as he could.  If his throw to Westbrook had had just a little more air under it and if Westbrook could have kept his balance had he caught the ball, that's a TD and Bortles is a hero today.  But, he didn't make the throw he had to make when he had to make it and Gillmore made a heckuva play when he had to make it.  I wouldn't "blame" Bortles anymore for the loss than I'd give the credit to gillmore for the win.

one thing I don't understand about the coaching was taking a knee at the end of the first half.  two timeouts.  a minute to play...a FG at that point with receiving the 2nd half KO.  that would have beaten the Patriots at their own game.  everybody is saying it was because they didn't trust Bortles.  I think that's nonsense.  I don't think they trusted themselves to make the right calls.

 A-ROB would have went up and snagged that pass.

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#88

(01-22-2018, 05:41 PM)jaglyn Wrote:
(01-22-2018, 04:37 PM)Kane Wrote: They trusted Blake enough in the first half to throw it a lot. And he was putting up better stats than Tom Turrific until that second half.

They got scared (which I see A LOT in the NFL). Too often teams try to squat on a lead in the 2nd half. No lead is safe. Never squat. Run up the score and let them complain about that.
Don't go from run, pa, drop back, screen, run, run, drop back, run, pa TO run run pass punt.

Players and coaches coming off a 3-13 season and who have never really sniffed a playoff game before this year, are just going to make mistakes in this situation. Compounded by the officiating issue, negating plays that were working, then I think I'm willing to give the Jags a pass.

I agree. It isn't easy to win in the playoffs, the lights are brighter and it's a lot different.
Season Ticket holder since 2004. Smile

 

        
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#89
(This post was last modified: 01-22-2018, 07:40 PM by atburg.)

(01-22-2018, 02:59 PM)BklynJag Wrote:
(01-22-2018, 01:12 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: He threw 4 or 5 passes well behind his receivers including coming up short on the late pass to Westbrook.  Westbrook clearly slowed down for the football and the DB was able to bat it. It's a TD if it's thrown two feet closer to the pylon. 

I'm not sure why he's getting a pass on this from so many. He played pretty good, but he left some big gains and a TD out there IMO. 

His performance was the testbook definition "you can win with this guy, but he can't lead a team to the championship."
  It's a bit cliché - but he encapsulated that phrase perfectly with that performance.
 He played pretty well but came up short. Had he played "really good" they win that game even though there were several other factors contributing to the loss. 

In this league he's a mid-tier asset - but you've got to keep mining for an upgrade in the draft IMO.

Its mind blowing, even there were plenty of passes that he should have connected with the receivers in stride but threw behind them. Even that last pass against Gilmore was underthrown

That pass was on the money! I've now watched it 15 times! Great defensive play, was what that was.
Amazing he many times you backtracked here under fire, yet you get someone to agree with your original comment, and it becomes unbearable.
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#90

(01-22-2018, 04:44 PM)KeepinItTeal Wrote: I don't blame him for the loss.  But the team deserves better.  If the coaches had no confidence in him, which the second half play calling showed, then it is time to move on.  I like the guy and have pulled for him since he got here, but there will be better options available.

I don't think the play calling, particularly in the second half, was predicated upon their lack of confidence in Bortles.  They were pretty much 50/50 run/pass during the game, and they darn sure weren't taking the ball out of his hand in the 2nd half.  I think Hackett tightened up, but it wasn't due to a lack of confidence in Bortles.  He's done nothing during the playoffs but exude confidence in making the plays necessary to win the games.  

I think where we stand right now, if the team were to unload Bortles and bring someone else in, that locker room would splinter severely.  As he has gained confidence, so has his team in his ability to make the plays, no matter whether it's with his legs or through the air.  The locker room has stepped up and backed him up, and I don't think that was just a temporary thing.  I think they recognize far better than fans on a message board just how mentally tough he is, and how far he has come as a QB.  There will certainly be guys that on paper are better QBs, but what's the cost?  And are they truly going to make a difference on this roster?  The chemistry matters here.

With the return of Robinson next year, and possibly some additional offensive weapons added to the mix via the draft and free agency, I think we may actually see Bortles come closer to his ceiling.  It's never going to be perfect, but it can absolutely get better.  With Doug and Tom running the show, it seemed like Bortles actually recognized the need to be more of a pro, and he worked to improve this past off season.  I fully expect to see him take another step this off season.
Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
[Image: attachment.php?aid=59]
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#91

(01-22-2018, 08:02 PM)FBT Wrote:
(01-22-2018, 04:44 PM)KeepinItTeal Wrote: I don't blame him for the loss.  But the team deserves better.  If the coaches had no confidence in him, which the second half play calling showed, then it is time to move on.  I like the guy and have pulled for him since he got here, but there will be better options available.

I don't think the play calling, particularly in the second half, was predicated upon their lack of confidence in Bortles.  They were pretty much 50/50 run/pass during the game, and they darn sure weren't taking the ball out of his hand in the 2nd half.  I think Hackett tightened up, but it wasn't due to a lack of confidence in Bortles.  He's done nothing during the playoffs but exude confidence in making the plays necessary to win the games.  

I think where we stand right now, if the team were to unload Bortles and bring someone else in, that locker room would splinter severely.  As he has gained confidence, so has his team in his ability to make the plays, no matter whether it's with his legs or through the air.  The locker room has stepped up and backed him up, and I don't think that was just a temporary thing.  I think they recognize far better than fans on a message board just how mentally tough he is, and how far he has come as a QB.  There will certainly be guys that on paper are better QBs, but what's the cost?  And are they truly going to make a difference on this roster?  The chemistry matters here.

With the return of Robinson next year, and possibly some additional offensive weapons added to the mix via the draft and free agency, I think we may actually see Bortles come closer to his ceiling.  It's never going to be perfect, but it can absolutely get better.  With Doug and Tom running the show, it seemed like Bortles actually recognized the need to be more of a pro, and he worked to improve this past off season.  I fully expect to see him take another step this off season.

I don't believe anyone from the dump Bortles , sign (insert name) crowd is thinking chemistry at all. I will take 20 touchdowns/10 picks all day, if it means championship appearances!
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#92

(01-22-2018, 05:33 PM)JAGFAN88 Wrote:
(01-22-2018, 05:26 PM)jagherd Wrote: I agree with you. That delay of game was huge at that juncture.

I still can't believe the Jags offense couldn't get the snap off in time after they just had a stoppage in play  (TO). It was critical.

There are alot of thing the QB is doing reads checks alignment yes he should also look at the clock. But i totally blame the coaches on this one. How many times do we see coaches running down the sideline calling time out when they dont have faith their QB will beat the clock. It was the first half TO are not as important. Marone should have BB5s back on that one. Just another one thing the coaches failed on to help us lose the game.

I agree, coaches have to be aware right there, undoubtedly. 

Notice I said that was "inexcusable by the Jags",, I don't pin it all on Bortles (although he should be looking there too.)
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#93

(01-22-2018, 08:56 PM)jagherd Wrote:
(01-22-2018, 05:33 PM)JAGFAN88 Wrote: There are alot of thing the QB is doing reads checks alignment yes he should also look at the clock. But i totally blame the coaches on this one. How many times do we see coaches running down the sideline calling time out when they dont have faith their QB will beat the clock. It was the first half TO are not as important. Marone should have BB5s back on that one. Just another one thing the coaches failed on to help us lose the game.

I agree, coaches have to be aware right there, undoubtedly. 

Notice I said that was "inexcusable by the Jags",, I don't pin it all on Bortles (although he should be looking there too.)

I mean, Blake was calling for the snap with like 2 or 3 seconds left I'm pretty sure. Not his fault Linder didn't get it
IT WAS ALWAYS THE JAGS
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#94

(01-22-2018, 09:29 AM)Caldrac Wrote: The play calling was fine in the 4th quarter. If the referees call a fair game you would have seen back-to-back PI's called in our favor when Lewis got straight mugged. This isn't a contest. It's not even up for debate. It was the most one sided game in officiating that I have seen in [BLEEP] years. Even non Jaguar fans. Analysts, regular Joe's and MSM writers were all over that [BLEEP] last night. It was atrocious. Blake didn't cost us the game. He did enough. I am sick and tired of people riding that kid into the dirt. I used to bash him left and right. I can't do it anymore I refuse.

That kid did a [BLEEP] LOAD of work this year with NOBODY around him at receiver. Rookie LT. Rookie RB that couldn't stay healthy all year. He had no Robinson. An oft injured Hurns. A hot and cold Lee who probably finished top three in dropped passes. He didn't get Westbrook back until mid season. He's a rookie. He had [BLEEP] Cole and Mickens at one point in his main line up and they were both undrafted. And Cole came on late.

Get off that kid's [BLEEP]. This team got jobbed! [BLEEP] jobbed! Jobbed and robbed! Nobody wanted to see little old Jacksonville in the Superbowl. Bortles Vs. Keenum/Foles isn't a catchy enough headline for TV ratings. Get the [BLEEP] out of here with this blaming Blake [BLEEP]. Tired of it.

+1 Great post.
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#95

(01-22-2018, 07:38 PM)atburg Wrote:
(01-22-2018, 02:59 PM)BklynJag Wrote: Its mind blowing, even there were plenty of passes that he should have connected with the receivers in stride but threw behind them. Even that last pass against Gilmore was underthrown

That pass was on the money! I've now watched it 15 times! Great defensive play, was what that was.
Amazing he many times you backtracked here under fire, yet you get someone to agree with your original comment, and it becomes unbearable.

I'll wait till I see the all 22.  Not sure what you mean about "how many times I backtracked" (assuming that's what you meant to type)

I merely submitted one disclaimer that I'd admit to being wrong if I am indeed wrong on my statement of what happened there. 

I think Westbrook slowed down for the ball. 

If he didn't - I was wrong.  I'll break it down when I have time to gif the all 22 stuff.  

Sorry that my having an opinion on that play is so unbearable for you. Maybe you need to lighten up a bit?
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#96

(01-23-2018, 01:40 AM)NYC4jags Wrote:
(01-22-2018, 07:38 PM)atburg Wrote: That pass was on the money! I've now watched it 15 times! Great defensive play, was what that was.
Amazing he many times you backtracked here under fire, yet you get someone to agree with your original comment, and it becomes unbearable.

I'll wait till I see the all 22.  Not sure what you mean about "how many times I backtracked" (assuming that's what you meant to type)

I merely submitted one disclaimer that I'd admit to being wrong if I am indeed wrong on my statement of what happened there. 

I think Westbrook slowed down for the ball. 

If he didn't - I was wrong.  I'll break it down when I have time to gif the all 22 stuff.  

Sorry that my having an opinion on that play is so unbearable for you. Maybe you need to lighten up a bit?

Honestly, it looks like Gilmore grabs Westbrook's jersey down by his waist and gives him a pull backwards. It's why it looks like Westbrook slows up and why Gilmore had the sudden quick burst to make the play on the ball. It's kinda ironic that the ref is literally standing 5 yards away from them and nothing gets called either.
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#97

(01-23-2018, 01:43 AM)Eric1 Wrote:
(01-23-2018, 01:40 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: I'll wait till I see the all 22.  Not sure what you mean about "how many times I backtracked" (assuming that's what you meant to type)

I merely submitted one disclaimer that I'd admit to being wrong if I am indeed wrong on my statement of what happened there. 

I think Westbrook slowed down for the ball. 

If he didn't - I was wrong.  I'll break it down when I have time to gif the all 22 stuff.  

Sorry that my having an opinion on that play is so unbearable for you. Maybe you need to lighten up a bit?

Honestly, it looks like Gilmore grabs Westbrook's jersey down by his waist and gives him a pull backwards. It's why it looks like Westbrook slows up and why Gilmore had the sudden quick burst to make the play on the ball. It's kinda ironic that the ref is literally standing 5 yards away from them and nothing gets called either.
Interesting. I'm definitely going to take a look at all the angles tomorrow when I have a minute. 
Curious what went down there. Gilmore def made a nice play, but my gut still tells me it was a shade underthrown. 

Will definitely post multiple gifs and an honest eval tomorrow. 

Hitting the pillow for now...
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#98

(01-23-2018, 01:43 AM)Eric1 Wrote:
(01-23-2018, 01:40 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: I'll wait till I see the all 22.  Not sure what you mean about "how many times I backtracked" (assuming that's what you meant to type)

I merely submitted one disclaimer that I'd admit to being wrong if I am indeed wrong on my statement of what happened there. 

I think Westbrook slowed down for the ball. 

If he didn't - I was wrong.  I'll break it down when I have time to gif the all 22 stuff.  

Sorry that my having an opinion on that play is so unbearable for you. Maybe you need to lighten up a bit?

Honestly, it looks like Gilmore grabs Westbrook's jersey down by his waist and gives him a pull backwards. It's why it looks like Westbrook slows up and why Gilmore had the sudden quick burst to make the play on the ball. It's kinda ironic that the ref is literally standing 5 yards away from them and nothing gets called either.

You can see it from the camera angle behind Bortles. He grabs Westbrook’s waist and slows him down a bit. Then he grabs him again with two hands and somehow manages to not only close the distance but also leap in the air against the faster Westbrook.
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#99

(01-22-2018, 09:29 AM)Caldrac Wrote: The play calling was fine in the 4th quarter. If the referees call a fair game you would have seen back-to-back PI's called in our favor when Lewis got straight mugged. This isn't a contest. It's not even up for debate. It was the most one sided game in officiating that I have seen in [BLEEP] years. Even non Jaguar fans. Analysts, regular Joe's and MSM writers were all over that [BLEEP] last night. It was atrocious. Blake didn't cost us the game. He did enough. I am sick and tired of people riding that kid into the dirt. I used to bash him left and right. I can't do it anymore I refuse.

That kid did a [BLEEP] LOAD of work this year with NOBODY around him at receiver. Rookie LT. Rookie RB that couldn't stay healthy all year. He had no Robinson. An oft injured Hurns. A hot and cold Lee who probably finished top three in dropped passes. He didn't get Westbrook back until mid season. He's a rookie. He had [BLEEP] Cole and Mickens at one point in his main line up and they were both undrafted. And Cole came on late.

Get off that kid's [BLEEP]. This team got jobbed! [BLEEP] jobbed! Jobbed and robbed! Nobody wanted to see little old Jacksonville in the Superbowl. Bortles Vs. Keenum/Foles isn't a catchy enough headline for TV ratings. Get the [BLEEP] out of here with this blaming Blake [BLEEP]. Tired of it.

This.
[Image: 5S5POfa.jpg]

80% of what I talk about is nonesense.. the other 25% is made up statistics...


 
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(This post was last modified: 01-23-2018, 09:18 AM by Kane.)

(01-22-2018, 05:02 PM)imtheblkranger Wrote: I don't understand the "they didn't have confidence in him" thought. Why in the world would they not have confidence in a guy who just executed the game plan almost to perfection for the entire half?

Kane nailed it. They got scared that they were up so high on NE and played too safe. Blake still took some deep shots the second half, and let's be honest, if they let Lewis actually run a route without being mugged, we'd have converted a lot more.

The play calling was never an indictment on Blake. It was the staff prematurely trying to protect a lead by running the clock.

Indeed...

It's a mindset that I've seen even from perennial good teams.
I've seen the Packers do it in the playoffs with Aaron Rodgers at QB.

Bortles had been playing his best game and didn't have any almost picks in the first half.
HE wasn't the reason THEY changed the play calling.

Reasons we lost
REFS NON CALLS
JAGS O & D 2ND HALF PLAY CALLING
GIPSON
I think the reasons could keep going and Bortles might not make the top ten.
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