According to a PFF report through week 8,  Jalen Ramsey does not appear in the top 20 cornerbacks.  https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-cornerback-...eek-8-2019

That does not necessarily pass my eye test.  But it is not a stretch to say that according to the numbers Marcus Peter, Stephon Gilmore, Jason McCourty, Richard Sherman, Chris Harris, and Jaire Alexander are all producing better at the corner.  That doesn't mean Ramsey stinks.  It just means he's not Deion or Reavis or Champ Bailey or Ty Law or whomever the other greats were.  It's ok to be good, really good.  But shutdown?  No.  That's someone justifying their take.  The numbers don't agree.  And neither does the eye test.

More than that, Hayden and prince made the list. Neither of which I would take over Ramsey or Boyue

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So is he healthy right now or you are gonna have that lame excuse all year? Because if he is healthy he should have no problem with finishing the season with much better numbers than Fowler. 

Also what's the excuse for Fowler clearly outplaying Yan in the playoffs in 2017?

Yan gets double teamed every play and Fowler doesn't? Also Fowler is a role player and probably much more "fresh" than Yan. LOL No he is not

Also Fowler was worth a 1 year deal for about 12 mil... Yan is worth probably double that per year. For a clueless fan or FO sure, no one outside Jacksonville would pay him that unless they have a lot of cap space to waste
Rams gonna let Fowler walk after this year too no doubt and he won't command much on the open market because everyone else knows much more than you do, fan boy.

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Except for Fowler having a better season LOL

Read: I look at the stat sheet at the end of a game and that tells the whole story cuz, I don't actually know football.

Fowler is in there 80% of the time, you are just proving you don't watch the Rams at all. 

Again, Fowler clearly outplayed Yan in the playoffs and also had some awesome games in the playoffs for the Rams too. Yan disappears in big games 

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Since being traded to Los Angeles, Jalen Ramsey has surrendered 14 completions on 17 targets for 202 yds and an NFL passer rating of 116.2. Ramsey has also gotten his hand on just one ball all year (week 2 against Houston)

It must be Ramsey's bad back.

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https://twitter.com/SlopingGiraffe/statu...52386?s=19

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According to a PFF report through week 8,  Jalen Ramsey does not appear in the top 20 cornerbacks.  https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-cornerback-...eek-8-2019

That does not necessarily pass my eye test.  But it is not a stretch to say that according to the numbers Marcus Peter, Stephon Gilmore, Jason McCourty, Richard Sherman, Chris Harris, and Jaire Alexander are all producing better at the corner.  That doesn't mean Ramsey stinks.  It just means he's not Deion or Reavis or Champ Bailey or Ty Law or whomever the other greats were.  It's ok to be good, really good.  But shutdown?  No.  That's someone justifying their take.  The numbers don't agree.  And neither does the eye test.

Probably has something to do with Ramsey missing games...

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According to a PFF report through week 8,  Jalen Ramsey does not appear in the top 20 cornerbacks.  https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-cornerback-...eek-8-2019

That does not necessarily pass my eye test.  But it is not a stretch to say that according to the numbers Marcus Peter, Stephon Gilmore, Jason McCourty, Richard Sherman, Chris Harris, and Jaire Alexander are all producing better at the corner.  That doesn't mean Ramsey stinks.  It just means he's not Deion or Reavis or Champ Bailey or Ty Law or whomever the other greats were.  It's ok to be good, really good.  But shutdown?  No.  That's someone justifying their take.  The numbers don't agree.  And neither does the eye test.

Probably has something to do with Ramsey missing games...

The No.1 guy on their list only had 50 more snaps than Ramsey.

Over the last 2 season, Ramsey just seems inconsistent at times, primarily when he feels that he is not matched up against an elite WR. He definitely steps up his play when going against the best, and varying times for big moments. But the the great CB's do that and then roast the non-elite WR/QB with monster games and huge plays consistently. I can honestly only think of a few games that Ramsey took over, and I'm pretty sure the Jags didn't even win the majority of those games.

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Since 2000, 60 players with 9 ints in their first 3 seasons. Since the Merger, there have been 223 such players in their first 3 seasons.
Since 2000, 17 players with 44 passes defended in their first 3 seasons. Since the Merger, there have been 19 such players in their first 3 seasons.
Since 2000, 46 cornerbacks with 176 tackles in first 3 their seasons. Since the Merger, there have been 81 such players in their first 3 seasons.

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Probably has something to do with Ramsey missing games...

The No.1 guy on their list only had 50 more snaps than Ramsey.

Over the last 2 season, Ramsey just seems inconsistent at times, primarily when he feels that he is not matched up against an elite WR. He definitely steps up his play when going against the best, and varying times for big moments. But the the great CB's do that and then roast the non-elite WR/QB with monster games and huge plays consistently. I can honestly only think of a few games that Ramsey took over, and I'm pretty sure the Jags didn't even win the majority of those games.

Valid point, but I suspect the reason he hasn't had more "big games" and splash plays is that we were losing so many games where the opponent was able to go conservative on offense because we weren't threatening to win the game.  The opponent could just grind out the win, ignoring his side of the field, running the ball or dumping it off, making first downs, and in that situation, it's hard for a star CB to have much of a visible effect.

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The No.1 guy on their list only had 50 more snaps than Ramsey.

Over the last 2 season, Ramsey just seems inconsistent at times, primarily when he feels that he is not matched up against an elite WR. He definitely steps up his play when going against the best, and varying times for big moments. But the the great CB's do that and then roast the non-elite WR/QB with monster games and huge plays consistently. I can honestly only think of a few games that Ramsey took over, and I'm pretty sure the Jags didn't even win the majority of those games.

Valid point, but I suspect the reason he hasn't had more "big games" and splash plays is that we were losing so many games where the opponent was able to go conservative on offense because we weren't threatening to win the game.  The opponent could just grind out the win, ignoring his side of the field, running the ball or dumping it off, making first downs, and in that situation, it's hard for a star CB to have much of a visible effect.

lol, opponents dont ignore his side of the field.  At times they go after him. Is that why hes only gotten his hand on the ball one time since week 2 and has gave up over 200 yards since being with the Rams? Or do you think it's his back? lol

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I think he is a good player with HOF ability. I also think he is his own worst enemy, and needs to mature before he can realize his full potential. If he doesn't, he is never going to be great, but he will be a quality NFL starter. If he learns to be disciplined, watch out. Like most arguments on this board, it depends on how you see that process unfolding.

If you deny his potential, you're being obtuse. If you think he's the best CB in the league, you're being optimistic. It doesn't matter. He's not a Jag. I don't care if he does well or not, but I want the Rams to lose.

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I think he is a good player with HOF ability. I also think he is his own worst enemy, and needs to mature before he can realize his full potential. If he doesn't, he is never going to be great, but he will be a quality NFL starter. If he learns to be disciplined, watch out. Like most arguments on this board, it depends on how you see that process unfolding.

If you deny his potential, you're being obtuse. If you think he's the best CB in the league, you're being optimistic. It doesn't matter. He's not a Jag. I don't care if he does well or not, but I want the Rams to lose.

Good points.  I don't think anyone denies his potential.  But he was crowned long before he has consistently realized that potential based in large part on his mouth and arrogance.  I definitely root against him and the Rams as long as he plays for them.

That sentiment expressed again, he is a really good player.  There's no denying it.

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Fix the O-Line!

I think he is a good player with HOF ability. I also think he is his own worst enemy, and needs to mature before he can realize his full potential. If he doesn't, he is never going to be great, but he will be a quality NFL starter. If he learns to be disciplined, watch out. Like most arguments on this board, it depends on how you see that process unfolding.

If you deny his potential, you're being obtuse. If you think he's the best CB in the league, you're being optimistic. It doesn't matter. He's not a Jag. I don't care if he does well or not, but I want the Rams to lose.

There is no denying he is one of the most talented corners but that doesnt meant that much if you dont put it to good use.  But the best ability is availability and hard work beats talent, as does one that buys in.

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Since 2000, 60 players with 9 ints in their first 3 seasons. Since the Merger, there have been 223 such players in their first 3 seasons.
Since 2000, 17 players with 44 passes defended in their first 3 seasons. Since the Merger, there have been 19 such players in their first 3 seasons.
Since 2000, 46 cornerbacks with 176 tackles in first 3 their seasons. Since the Merger, there have been 81 such players in their first 3 seasons.

I hope we aren't using tackles and PDs as a way to judge quality in cornerbacks. Even picks is a pretty poor way

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Probably has something to do with Ramsey missing games...

The No.1 guy on their list only had 50 more snaps than Ramsey.

Over the last 2 season, Ramsey just seems inconsistent at times, primarily when he feels that he is not matched up against an elite WR. He definitely steps up his play when going against the best, and varying times for big moments. But the the great CB's do that and then roast the non-elite WR/QB with monster games and huge plays consistently. I can honestly only think of a few games that Ramsey took over, and I'm pretty sure the Jags didn't even win the majority of those games.

He allowed a passer rating of 73 last season. I'll take that "inconsistency" over most corners in the league.

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I think he is a good player with HOF ability. I also think he is his own worst enemy, and needs to mature before he can realize his full potential. If he doesn't, he is never going to be great, but he will be a quality NFL starter. If he learns to be disciplined, watch out. Like most arguments on this board, it depends on how you see that process unfolding.

If you deny his potential, you're being obtuse. If you think he's the best CB in the league, you're being optimistic. It doesn't matter. He's not a Jag. I don't care if he does well or not, but I want the Rams to lose.

There is no denying he is one of the most talented corners but that doesnt meant that much if you dont put it to good use.  But the best ability is availability and hard work beats talent, as does one that buys in.

No it doesn't.

If it did, all those hard working practice squad players would be starting.

You need hard work AND talent.

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Since 2000, 60 players with 9 ints in their first 3 seasons. Since the Merger, there have been 223 such players in their first 3 seasons.
Since 2000, 17 players with 44 passes defended in their first 3 seasons. Since the Merger, there have been 19 such players in their first 3 seasons.
Since 2000, 46 cornerbacks with 176 tackles in first 3 their seasons. Since the Merger, there have been 81 such players in their first 3 seasons.

I hope we aren't using tackles and PDs as a way to judge quality in cornerbacks. Even picks is a pretty poor way

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The No.1 guy on their list only had 50 more snaps than Ramsey.

Over the last 2 season, Ramsey just seems inconsistent at times, primarily when he feels that he is not matched up against an elite WR. He definitely steps up his play when going against the best, and varying times for big moments. But the the great CB's do that and then roast the non-elite WR/QB with monster games and huge plays consistently. I can honestly only think of a few games that Ramsey took over, and I'm pretty sure the Jags didn't even win the majority of those games.

He allowed a passer rating of 73 last season. I'll take that "inconsistency" over most corners in the league.

I know stats are not the best way. Having said that, elite/generational CB’s still pile up those “poor” metrics. The argument is that just because you have those numbers doesn’t mean you are elite, but if you are, why don’t you have more defining moments?

My entire point is that, sure he is a top 10 CB at the moment, but to be worthy of a $20+ Million/year contract he needs more production.

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I hope we aren't using tackles and PDs as a way to judge quality in cornerbacks. Even picks is a pretty poor way

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He allowed a passer rating of 73 last season. I'll take that "inconsistency" over most corners in the league.

I know stats are not the best way. Having said that, elite/generational CB’s still pile up those “poor” metrics. The argument is that just because you have those numbers doesn’t mean you are elite, but if you are, why don’t you have more defining moments?

My entire point is that, sure he is a top 10 CB at the moment, but to be worthy of a $20+ Million/year contract he needs more production.

PDs and tackles are often more a result of target volume than not. Tackling especially has zero bearing on a corner playing well or not. That's why bad corners are so valuable in IDP fantasy...they rack up more stats.  

Patrick Peterson hasn't had more than 8 PDs or 3 picks in a season since 2013 for instance. 

I don't think Jalen is playing well this season, but that's because of how he's been in coverage, not his tackle/pd/INT stats. His 1v1 coverage hasn't been up to par and that's where Jalen makes his money.

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There is no denying he is one of the most talented corners but that doesnt meant that much if you dont put it to good use.  But the best ability is availability and hard work beats talent, as does one that buys in.

No it doesn't.

If it did, all those hard working practice squad players would be starting.

You need hard work AND talent.

Yes it does, of course you have to have both.  I didnt say the only thing you need Is hard work.

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There is no denying he is one of the most talented corners but that doesnt meant that much if you dont put it to good use.  But the best ability is availability and hard work beats talent, as does one that buys in.

No it doesn't.

If it did, all those hard working practice squad players would be starting.

You need hard work AND talent.

I see it as, if you put in the hard work your talent will elevate everything you do on the field. If you don't put in the hard work your talent only gets you so far. 

In Ramsey's case (and others who have a tremendous amount of natural ability) he is undisciplined and shoots himself in the foot by not putting the work in to enhance his abilities. He thinks he's just fine because he always has been. The problem is he's not in high school and college anymore. Everyone in the NFL is elite compared to those who aren't in the pros. If he wants to be great he's going to have to work for it.

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No it doesn't.

If it did, all those hard working practice squad players would be starting.

You need hard work AND talent.

Yes it does, of course you have to have both.  I didnt say the only thing you need Is hard work.

So, let me get this straight. What you actually said was "hard work beats talent." 

NOW, you are saying that talent plus hard work - is better than - talent without hard work? 

The first is utter nonsense. The second is as obvious as the nose on my face.

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Yes it does, of course you have to have both.  I didnt say the only thing you need Is hard work.

So, let me get this straight. What you actually said was "hard work beats talent." 

NOW, you are saying that talent plus hard work -  is better than  - talent without hard work? 

The first is utter nonsense. The second is as obvious as the nose on my face.

This is to complicated for you

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