See, this is what I'm not getting.

How could he have singularly ruined the 49ers if he has those accolades-besides from maybe driving away Harbaugh?

The critics would argue that the early success was due to players mostly acquired prior to him being GM and the team just got worse the longer Baalke ran things.  Let's just take the record of 51-44-1.  It doesn't sound that bad.  Hypothetically, if it went as follows, I think most people would be pleased:

Season 1:  2-14
Season 2:  5-11
Season 3:  8-8
Season 4:  12-4
Season 5:  11-4-1
Season 6:  13-3

However, that's not what happened.  The reality is reversed.  His actual records went as follows:

Season 1:  13-3
Season 2:  11-4-1
Season 3:  12-4
Season 4:  8-8
Season 5:  5-11
Season 6:  2-14

That's the concern.

Exactly

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Lots of theories buzzing around about the Khan/Urban/Baalke hierarchy.

While we don't know to what degree Urban and Baalke will be collaborating with or delegating to one another --
Their past coaching history together at Utah may speak to the notion that they are philosophically aligned enough to work more together than one for the other.

Their history may also suggest that Baalke played no small role in bringing Meyer to the table.

Khan seems to have made it clear that his primary role is that of financial oversight. So I think the real question is whether Meyer and Baalke organize as a team in personnel decisions or if Meyer is set to assume more control than that.
I wouldn't listen to the noise about Khan having roster control.

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See, this is what I'm not getting.

How could he have singularly ruined the 49ers if he has those accolades-besides from maybe driving away Harbaugh?

The critics would argue that the early success was due to players mostly acquired prior to him being GM and the team just got worse the longer Baalke ran things.  Let's just take the record of 51-44-1.  It doesn't sound that bad.  Hypothetically, if it went as follows, I think most people would be pleased:

Season 1:  2-14
Season 2:  5-11
Season 3:  8-8
Season 4:  12-4
Season 5:  11-4-1
Season 6:  13-3

However, that's not what happened.  The reality is reversed.  His actual records went as follows:

Season 1:  13-3
Season 2:  11-4-1
Season 3:  12-4
Season 4:  8-8
Season 5:  5-11
Season 6:  2-14

That's the concern.

Come on man those are hate stats, stop it! You're making my head hurt! 

It's a bad hire. I'd argue at best we have another Caldwell, we did not improve and we may have even severely downgraded the GM spot. I kinda feel bad for Dave, as soon as his team was seen into fruition(FINALLY) in 2017, after several years of building, we bring in ole Tom(love ya Tom, but ya [BLEEP] us) and made Dave into a puppet to Tom. Then old man Tom practically threw a hand grenade at the roster. Then Shad goes and plays GM and strips him of his duties again. It has been 1 major disfunction with Khan as owner, with the hires we've made I dont see it changing. I'd like to be 100% wrong though.

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If Baalke gets all the "blame" for "ruining" the 49ers, then he also deserves credit for their early 2010's run. Which was a good run and one play away from a championship.

I am not incredibly thrilled about being in-house, but in his defense, he was only here a few months. So he was not here long enough to absorb the "stink".

Let's see how it plays out.

That's what happens every time this team does something stupid. We "wait and see what happens." Guess what, it's always the same thing. It fails and we start all over. If it ever succeeded, we wouldn't be in the current situation we are in. I'm tired of waiting and seeing. When is it our turn to see this team actually run like a real NFL franchise? We had a golden opportunity to build a real staff around a real QB. Instead we hire a college HC with no NFL experience, who has questionable character, health problems and is power hungry. Then we hire one of the worst GM candidates in the NFL, because he's friends with Meyer, then we retain an O-Line coach who has completely failed to develop our young OT's and is widely considered one of the worst O-Line coaches in the league. What's next? Are we gonna retain Todd Wash as Defensive Coordinator? I'm expecting that. 

Almost always, when this board is largely in agreement on certain moves, the board is usually right. I haven't see too many people on here that like any of these moves. Why is it so apparent to us, but not to the "professional football people." It's called incompetence and it starts from the owner down. I'm getting older and I just wanna see this team win a Superbowl before I die. When we lucked into getting Lawrence I thought that might happen. He needs help though and so far, he's not getting it. My dream is slipping away.

---

The critics would argue that the early success was due to players mostly acquired prior to him being GM and the team just got worse the longer Baalke ran things.  Let's just take the record of 51-44-1.  It doesn't sound that bad.  Hypothetically, if it went as follows, I think most people would be pleased:

Season 1:  2-14
Season 2:  5-11
Season 3:  8-8
Season 4:  12-4
Season 5:  11-4-1
Season 6:  13-3

However, that's not what happened.  The reality is reversed.  His actual records went as follows:

Season 1:  13-3
Season 2:  11-4-1
Season 3:  12-4
Season 4:  8-8
Season 5:  5-11
Season 6:  2-14

That's the concern.

Come on man those are hate stats, stop it! You're making my head hurt! 

It's a bad hire. I'd argue at best we have another Caldwell, we did not improve and we may have even severely downgraded the GM spot. I kinda feel bad for Dave, as soon as his team was seen into fruition(FINALLY) in 2017, after several years of building, we bring in ole Tom(love ya Tom, but ya [BLEEP] us) and made Dave into a puppet to Tom. Then old man Tom practically threw a hand grenade at the roster. Then Shad goes and plays GM and strips him of his duties again. It has been 1 major disfunction with Khan as owner, with the hires we've made I dont see it changing. I'd like to be 100% wrong though.

Be prepared for a full on aneurysm, because it isn't gonna stop.

---

See, this is what I'm not getting.

How could he have singularly ruined the 49ers if he has those accolades-besides from maybe driving away Harbaugh?

The critics would argue that the early success was due to players mostly acquired prior to him being GM and the team just got worse the longer Baalke ran things.  Let's just take the record of 51-44-1.  It doesn't sound that bad.  Hypothetically, if it went as follows, I think most people would be pleased:

Season 1:  2-14
Season 2:  5-11
Season 3:  8-8
Season 4:  12-4
Season 5:  11-4-1
Season 6:  13-3

However, that's not what happened.  The reality is reversed.  His actual records went as follows:

Season 1:  13-3
Season 2:  11-4-1
Season 3:  12-4
Season 4:  8-8
Season 5:  5-11
Season 6:  2-14

That's the concern.

Thank you for posting this.

I expect to still have people defending this though lol "but but but SB!"

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"Treyvon Wallet is elite run defender and better overall than Aidan Hutchinson" 11/11/23

Look at his entire 2012 Draft.  Yikes.

That happens, for any number of reasons.

If a GM is hitting about 40% of his picks, he's doing exceptionally well.

Hopefully for us, there won't be any versions of that 2012 draft.

For me, those Super bowl appearances shape my perspective of Baalke.

I am, however, soliciting the input of some 49ers fans.  I know they are less than enthused about his stay there.  I would like some details from them as to why that is.

It just worries me a bit that he has a bit of a history of making reaches.  For all of Caldwell's issues, he never really reached in the early rounds.  Even with Taven Bryan and even Blake Bortles, they were generally seen as 1st round picks.  Just worries me he has 'smartest man in the room' gene smith syndrome.  I mean most people even figured Luke Joeckel was going to be the pick.  Even if ultimately it wasn't a good pick.

---

I really think he's the interim GM.  There's just not enough time to hire a coaching staff, evaluate the roster, and get into free agency and the draft PLUS go through day after day of interviewing GM candidates.

I think he'll be evaluated after one year and if he doesn't measure up, let go at that time.

That's a bad recipe.

First, all of the other candidates are currently working in an FO in some role, they are not going to be blindsided by the players available in either FA or the darft. It may take some time to fill out their staff, but a lot of that is also going to come from familiar contacts that are also working in some scouting capacity across the league. You're not going to hire a full staff of greenhorns even if you come over from another team.

That brings up a particular fear - if this is an internal hire, how many of our existing scouts and staff from Caldwell's regime are going to be retained? This is where a lot of the heartburn lies.

And if this is just a bandaid, waiting a year to seriously attempt filling the position is a fool's errand - Baalke will likely have used the darft capital that we have presently amassed and a bulk of the cap room to build the team in his (ok, Urbz's) design. You fire him after a year, and want to find candidates who want to sign on to a team that likely already has a young QB, coach (whether good or bad this time next year), and not nearly the flexibility to build a team as you see fit. I guess at this point though, nothing Shad does should surprise us.

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So we go from Coughlin to now Urban having full control with a lame yes man gm? Is this much better? IDK

It's kind-of like that. Aside from Khan repeatedly saying he'd be more involved than he was during Coughlin's tenure. 

Nonetheless, Khan is rolling the dice that Meyer (along with additional checks and balances) will be better than Coughlin was in a similar role. 

Another key difference is the fact that the "czar" in this scenario is the HC and not an executive. 
It's a more streamlined approach as the "czar" won't be potentially in disagreement w/ the coach on roster moves.

Ask the tinhorns how having the coach act as czar worked out...

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The guy made 3 Super Bowls and was voted excecutive of the year. Geez...

And a few years later, the 49ers were 2-14 and ESPN named his team the worst sports franchise in North America. That's going the wrong direction.

---

It's kind-of like that. Aside from Khan repeatedly saying he'd be more involved than he was during Coughlin's tenure. 

Nonetheless, Khan is rolling the dice that Meyer (along with additional checks and balances) will be better than Coughlin was in a similar role. 

Another key difference is the fact that the "czar" in this scenario is the HC and not an executive. 
It's a more streamlined approach as the "czar" won't be potentially in disagreement w/ the coach on roster moves.

Ask the tinhorns how having the coach act as czar worked out...

It can work.

It can fail. 

We won't know with Meyer till we actually try it.  Do you think Meyer is smarter than O'Brien?

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It can work.

It can fail. 

We won't know with Meyer till we actually try it.  Do you think Meyer is smarter than O'Brien?

Hey! Not fair. I have a tomato on my counter that meets that criteria!.

---

Looking to troll? Don't bother, we supply our own.

 

 

It can work.

It can fail. 

We won't know with Meyer till we actually try it.  Do you think Meyer is smarter than O'Brien?

Hey! Not fair. I have a tomato on my counter that meets that criteria!.

LOL

I'd wager many tinhorn fans agree.

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The guy made 3 Super Bowls and was voted excecutive of the year. Geez...

And a few years later, the 49ers were 2-14 and ESPN named his team the worst sports franchise in North America. That's going the wrong direction.

It happens in the nfl when you don’t have a franchise qb. I mean we were in the AFC championship and now we went 1-15. Most teams have no steady success without having a steady franchise qb.

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[img]blob:https://www.duvalpride.com/1a8a2498-9833-4b7d-8cc7-5e45aa36d9f6[/img][img=648x560]blob:https://www.duvalpride.com/cfd7a344-8206-4fed-a4c4-6536e150b1a7[/img]

And a few years later, the 49ers were 2-14 and ESPN named his team the worst sports franchise in North America. That's going the wrong direction.

It happens in the nfl when you don’t have a franchise qb. I mean we were in the AFC championship and now we went 1-15. Most teams have no steady success without having a steady franchise qb.

yep, it happened to us - and we fired the GM, same thing the 49ers did. I'm not comfortable hiring their failed GM any more than I would be rehiring one of ours.

---

Lmao.  BIG SURPRISE.

This trainwreck only barely.left the station folks.  Khan proves he sucks yet again.

What is your problem?

The last few coaches for the Jags have been from the NFL coaching cicrle.  They all failed.

This is a new move that could potentially be great.  I don't know if It will work out but we have a proven winner as head coach.  Del Rio, Malarkey, Marrone, all had previous NFL experience and look how that turned out.

Coughlin came from the Jags straight from Boston College.  He has assistant NFL experience before but nothing like previous NFL head coaching experience.  He was rough and tough but the results spoke for themselves.  The last time the Jags have steadily been relevant was the 90s. That was due to Coughlin's hard nose attitude and coaching. 2 AFC title games in a 4 year span to put icing on the cake.

The Jags had to hit the nuclear button and rebuild from the top to the bottom.  I love some of the comments I have heard from Meyer.  There wasn't like there was another bill bellicheck or any other proven head coach available.

---

That happens, for any number of reasons.

If a GM is hitting about 40% of his picks, he's doing exceptionally well.

Hopefully for us, there won't be any versions of that 2012 draft.

For me, those Super bowl appearances shape my perspective of Baalke.

I am, however, soliciting the input of some 49ers fans.  I know they are less than enthused about his stay there.  I would like some details from them as to why that is.

It just worries me a bit that he has a bit of a history of making reaches.  For all of Caldwell's issues, he never really reached in the early rounds.  Even with Taven Bryan and even Blake Bortles, they were generally seen as 1st round picks.  Just worries me he has 'smartest man in the room' gene smith syndrome.  I mean most people even figured Luke Joeckel was going to be the pick.  Even if ultimately it wasn't a good pick.

The 12-3 crew on 1010 XL interviewed a sports guy from the SF area this afternoon to provide some insight into exactly what I have been asking about.

The guy (Mayoco[?]) was saying Baalke had problems working with FOUR (4) different coaches:  Singletary, Harbaugh, Tomsula and Chip Kelly-not just Harbaugh.  As for drafting, he was saying Baalke took a lot of chances on guys who had torn ACLs, and seemed to double down on the strategy when questioned about it.

The guy was saying Baalke knew football, and could probably learn from his mistakes, but has difficulty working with others and takes chances on injured players.

Here is a link to the interview, which begins at the 1:44 mark.

https://soundcloud.com/1010xl-92-5-fm-ja...me-1-20-21

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Welp what do you think? Makes me feel like Urban is actually the gm here now.

The owner pretty much made it clear that they were moving to a coach centric model, so yeah, Urban will be wielding a lot more control.  To that end, if he can work with Baalke and they can build a team that wins quickly enough, it's a good hire.  I am relatively indifferent on Baalke.  He did some good and some not so good in SF.  But, he also had control over who was coaching there, and he won't have a say in the matter here, although he supposedly did want Urban.  

According to what I've read, there's nobody that will outwork Baalke when it comes to researching players.  If Urban and he can put that to work and build a quality roster, great.  If they can't do that with the trove of draft picks and cap space this team enjoys right now, they'll both be gone soon enough.

Should be interesting to watch this thing develop.

---

Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Welp what do you think? Makes me feel like Urban is actually the gm here now.

The owner pretty much made it clear that they were moving to a coach centric model, so yeah, Urban will be wielding a lot more control.  To that end, if he can work with Baalke and they can build a team that wins quickly enough, it's a good hire.  I am relatively indifferent on Baalke.  He did some good and some not so good in SF.  But, he also had control over who was coaching there, and he won't have a say in the matter here, although he supposedly did want Urban.  

According to what I've read, there's nobody that will outwork Baalke when it comes to researching players.  If Urban and he can put that to work and build a quality roster, great.  If they can't do that with the trove of draft picks and cap space this team enjoys right now, they'll both be gone soon enough.

Should be interesting to watch this thing develop.

(Emphasis added)

The interview this afternoon on 1010XL supports this viewpoint.  It seems the biggest question is whether he can actually have a functional working relationship with Meyer, considering he flamed out with FOUR (4) different 49ers head coaches.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

To be fair, most of his misses came between the 5th-7th rounds.. Lots of them to be honest, with some 3rds-4ths sprinkled in there. I know everyone wants a GM who can find hidden talent in the deeper rounds, but his drafts look pretty average.

AJ Jenkins and LaMichael James were concerning reaches, considered such even at the time by most (and considered even worse in hindsight).  I think most considered Jenkins a 3rd rounder, and James a 4th.  Yet those were their first and second picks of a draft where they didn't have a lot of draft capital to begin with.

But the very best GMs have their misses.

Jimmy Johnson  spent the first pick of the 2nd round in 1990 on Alexander Wright.

Bill Walsh drafted Larry Roberts.

Belichick missed on any number of WRs.

It concerns me that he takes a lot of chances on guys with torn ACLs.  THAT is more concerning that the mere presence of misses.

That happens with every GM from time to time.

But that a specific risky strategy leads to repeatable misses is what's concerning.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Lmao.  BIG SURPRISE.

This trainwreck only barely.left the station folks.  Khan proves he sucks yet again.

What is your problem?

The last few coaches for the Jags have been from the NFL coaching cicrle.  They all failed.

This is a new move that could potentially be great.  I don't know if It will work out but we have a proven winner as head coach.  Del Rio, Malarkey, Marrone, all had previous NFL experience and look how that turned out.

Coughlin came from the Jags straight from Boston College.  He has assistant NFL experience before but nothing like previous NFL head coaching experience.  He was rough and tough but the results spoke for themselves.  The last time the Jags have steadily been relevant was the 90s. That was due to Coughlin's hard nose attitude and coaching. 2 AFC title games in a 4 year span to put icing on the cake.

The Jags had to hit the nuclear button and rebuild from the top to the bottom.  I love some of the comments I have heard from Meyer.  There wasn't like there was another bill bellicheck or any other proven head coach available.

I was willing to take a wait and see attitude with the Meyer hire, but so far the choices he has made have been abysmal. How are we supposed to be optimistic, when he is just holding onto hires from the old regime (Warhop and Baalke)?

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