Zane Beadles just for an easy refrence. Came off playing with Peyton in Denver.

If you watched him play in Denver he was pretty bad there too.

Yes, but that illustrates his point about great QBing making OL seem better than they are.

But I'd rather have a great QB operating behind a great T who could be great on their own as opposed to a great QB making substandard players seem good.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Wasn't me defending LF27, I wanted one of the QBs. Tho I will say, to me ETN is a better prospect than Fournette and we took him at the end of rd 1, vs 4th overall.

I was screaming for us to trade down and take Ryan Ramczyk instead of Fournette. People thought I was crazy.

Wouldn't have been mad. Tho sitting still and taking Watson or Mahomes would have been just fine. I'll be the first to admit that I thought Watson wasn't good and really wanted us to get lucky and grab Mahomes at the top of the 2nd. Had no idea he was going to go so early that year. But we were stuck on Broke Bortles for god knows what reason.

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If you watched him play in Denver he was pretty bad there too.

That's the point. He was a bad player in general but he was exposed once he came to play with an incompetent QB.

He was also an OG. That is a big difference. No one is saying we need an All-Pro at every O-Line position, but in order to succeed, you at least need competent OT's.

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If you watched him play in Denver he was pretty bad there too.

Yes, but that illustrates his point about great QBing making OL seem better than they are.

But I'd rather have a great QB operating behind a great T who could be great on their own as opposed to a great QB making substandard players seem good.

Well yeah in a perfect world I'd like to have the best player at every position but it's just not viable lol.

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I don't know if he has talent "all over the offense."  Tackles are a huge question mark as is TE.

That said, you are absolutely right in that he is anything but a proven NFL commodity, and he does have SOME talent with which to work.

So what do you think the chances are that the Jags get a TE (via trade) before the start of camp?

Not good.

I think our best chance at upgrading the position will come with cap cuts.  We'll have to look at the teams looking to make cap cuts and scavenge from them.  It wouldn't surprise me to see Cleveland cut Njoku by June.  I could see Ertz possibly getting cut, too.  Maybe we make a run at Kyle Rudolph.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

That's the point. He was a bad player in general but he was exposed once he came to play with an incompetent QB.

He was also an OG. That is a big difference. No one is saying we need an All-Pro at every O-Line position, but in order to succeed, you at least need competent OT's.

Nate Solder was thought to be pretty damn good, until he left Tom Brady for a big payday and is now hated by everyone in New York lol.

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So what do you think the chances are that the Jags get a TE (via trade) before the start of camp?

Not good.

I think our best chance at upgrading the position will come with cap cuts.  We'll have to look at the teams looking to make cap cuts and scavenge from them.  It wouldn't surprise me to see Cleveland cut Njoku by June.  I could see Ertz possibly getting cut, too.  Maybe we make a run at Kyle Rudolph.

This is the most likely of the scenarios. I could also see the Bucs cutting O.J. Howard as well. Either way, I believe Njoku or Howard would be a mild upgrade, as far as our receiving TE's, as long as they stay healthy.

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Immediate draft grades are largely an exercise in futility anyway.
Whether you're a fan losing your marbles because they didn't take 6 of the 10 prospects you fell in love with, or if you're a media pundit haphazardly slapping a label on 32 draft classes you've likely not taken the time to analyze thoroughly.
Neither knows how these players will make impact or not.

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He was also an OG. That is a big difference. No one is saying we need an All-Pro at every O-Line position, but in order to succeed, you at least need competent OT's.

Nate Solder was thought to be pretty damn good, until he left Tom Brady for a big payday and is now hated by everyone in New York lol.

I wouldn't count that though because he is now way past his prime by the time he got to the Giants.

When you posed your question, I figured the reasonable basis for analysis would be guys in their primes or reasonably close to them who departed in free agency.

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Not good.

I think our best chance at upgrading the position will come with cap cuts.  We'll have to look at the teams looking to make cap cuts and scavenge from them.  It wouldn't surprise me to see Cleveland cut Njoku by June.  I could see Ertz possibly getting cut, too.  Maybe we make a run at Kyle Rudolph.

This is the most likely of the scenarios. I could also see the Bucs cutting O.J. Howard as well. Either way, I believe Njoku or Howard would be a mild upgrade, as far as our receiving TE's, as long as they stay healthy.

Assuming Howard has fully recovered from his achilles...he would represent an upgrade.  But that is a dubious proposition in my mind.  But I could see him getting cut too.  Tampa is too talented at TE with Gronk (who hasn't seem to have lost anything from NE) and Brate.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Yes, but that illustrates his point about great QBing making OL seem better than they are.

But I'd rather have a great QB operating behind a great T who could be great on their own as opposed to a great QB making substandard players seem good.

Well yeah in a perfect world I'd like to have the best player at every position but it's just not viable lol.

Well...maybe..maybe not depending on how well you draft and develop.

The Colts had a great QB in Manning and a great LT on Glenn.

The Rams had a great QB in Warner and a great LT in Pace.

The Chargers had a great QB in Rivers and at least a good LT in Marcus McNeill.

The Eagles had Mcnabb and Tra Thomas.

It can happen.

It can happen with the Jaguars if Little can be developed.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

He was also an OG. That is a big difference. No one is saying we need an All-Pro at every O-Line position, but in order to succeed, you at least need competent OT's.

Nate Solder was thought to be pretty damn good, until he left Tom Brady for a big payday and is now hated by everyone in New York lol.

Nate Solder was thought to be a solid, yet unspectacular OT. The Giants overpaid him out of desperation and his huge contract made it appear as though he was an elite player. This happens all the time. Dak Prescott is the 2nd highest paid QB in the NFL. Does that mean people view him as better than Aaron Rodgers? Certainly not. Solder is also 33 years old and has been dealing with injuries since going to New York and he opted out last season. He may not have lived up to the big contract, but he hasn't been terrible. The Giants knew what they were getting. They thought he was better than anything else they could get at the time. Solder at no time in his career, was ever thought of as an elite OT. The Giants would've kept him at LT last year, had he not opted out and they would've played Thomas at RT. That was the plan. Instead, with Solder gone, Thomas moved to LT and struggled a lot early on, but got much better as the season progressed. Now, it'll be interesting to see what they do with Solder.

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Well yeah in a perfect world I'd like to have the best player at every position but it's just not viable lol.

Well...maybe..maybe not depending on how well you draft and develop.

The Colts had a great QB in Manning and a great LT on Glenn.

The Rams had a great QB in Warner and a great LT in Pace.

The Chargers had a great QB in Rivers and at least a good LT in Marcus McNeill.

The Eagles had Mcnabb and Tra Thomas.

It can happen.

It can happen with the Jaguars if Little can be developed.

I would just be happy with a "middle of the road" LT and RT. If we could find an Anthony Castonzo type OT, I'd be thrilled. Nobody ever talks about him being elite, but he was reliable.

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You almost always overpay in free agency. Especially at premium positions. Few players live up to those expectations.

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________________________________________________
Scouting well is all that matters.  Draft philosophy is all fluff.

You almost always overpay in free agency. Especially at premium positions. Few players live up to those expectations.

Exactly. I really wanted Trent Williams in free agency, but once I saw what he got and how long the contract was, I wouldn't have done that deal. Even if I had a gun to my head. That was crazy.

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We consistently ranked in the middle of the pack in our draft choices - that's an average performance to me. How can we have an average performance when we picked first in every round?

I really hope that Little turns out to be the monster it seems he could be. Same with Campbell and the rest.

I just think we're going to look back on the past few days as yet another draft of missed opportunities. Of course, a year from now when we say "we should have taken this guy instead of that guy" the fanboys will call it hindsight. But many of us were questioning the picks on draft day.

I'd grade the draft at a C- and I feel like that's being charitable. But I've been a Jags fan since the team was announced - I'm really hoping I'm wrong and these players turn out to be great.

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Nate Solder was thought to be pretty damn good, until he left Tom Brady for a big payday and is now hated by everyone in New York lol.

Nate Solder was thought to be a solid, yet unspectacular OT. The Giants overpaid him out of desperation and his huge contract made it appear as though he was an elite player. This happens all the time. Dak Prescott is the 2nd highest paid QB in the NFL. Does that mean people view him as better than Aaron Rodgers? Certainly not. Solder is also 33 years old and has been dealing with injuries since going to New York and he opted out last season. He may not have lived up to the big contract, but he hasn't been terrible. The Giants knew what they were getting. They thought he was better than anything else they could get at the time. Solder at no time in his career, was ever thought of as an elite OT. The Giants would've kept him at LT last year, had he not opted out and they would've played Thomas at RT. That was the plan. Instead, with Solder gone, Thomas moved to LT and struggled a lot early on, but got much better as the season progressed. Now, it'll be interesting to see what they do with Solder.

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Well...maybe..maybe not depending on how well you draft and develop.

The Colts had a great QB in Manning and a great LT on Glenn.

The Rams had a great QB in Warner and a great LT in Pace.

The Chargers had a great QB in Rivers and at least a good LT in Marcus McNeill.

The Eagles had Mcnabb and Tra Thomas.

It can happen.

It can happen with the Jaguars if Little can be developed.

I would just be happy with a "middle of the road" LT and RT. If we could find an Anthony Castonzo type OT, I'd be thrilled. Nobody ever talks about him being elite, but he was reliable.

The Colts are faced with the prospect of possibly having Julien Davenport as their LT going into the season

I am giddy about that.  Reading the Colts board, they are less than giddy about that.

They have talked about bringing in Villanueva or Eric Fisher. 

That said, the rest of their OL is rock solid, so it won't be too bad for them.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

On long shots, we all thought the same crap even worse with the drafting of Myles Jack the heat the Jags took for taking that pick.... but now all these people that were at arms about now round cry #jackwasntdown if there is any team who I would trust about knee injuries is the Jags ... Just like you want to rip them for past picks ..praise them when they know exactly what they are doing.

I think its fair to bring him up. His knee injury was really bad and we took a gamble but it paid off. I will say I don't remember the reaction being overwhelming negative. Maybe I'm misremebering but I recall a number of people were pretty happy about it. I think part of it was because he was such a great college player and rare talent. Would have been top 5. Could play both ways if you wanted him to. He was so good that if he came back less than 100% he may still be a quality pro. Seemed more worth the gamble. Thats the take I remember. And plus Dave wasn't known for doing that often which helped.

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________________________________________________
Scouting well is all that matters.  Draft philosophy is all fluff.

Nate Solder was thought to be a solid, yet unspectacular OT. The Giants overpaid him out of desperation and his huge contract made it appear as though he was an elite player. This happens all the time. Dak Prescott is the 2nd highest paid QB in the NFL. Does that mean people view him as better than Aaron Rodgers? Certainly not. Solder is also 33 years old and has been dealing with injuries since going to New York and he opted out last season. He may not have lived up to the big contract, but he hasn't been terrible. The Giants knew what they were getting. They thought he was better than anything else they could get at the time. Solder at no time in his career, was ever thought of as an elite OT. The Giants would've kept him at LT last year, had he not opted out and they would've played Thomas at RT. That was the plan. Instead, with Solder gone, Thomas moved to LT and struggled a lot early on, but got much better as the season progressed. Now, it'll be interesting to see what they do with Solder.

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I would just be happy with a "middle of the road" LT and RT. If we could find an Anthony Castonzo type OT, I'd be thrilled. Nobody ever talks about him being elite, but he was reliable.

The Colts are faced with the prospect of possibly having Julien Davenport as their LT going into the season

I am giddy about that.  Reading the Colts board, they are less than giddy about that.

They have talked about bringing in Villanueva or Eric Fisher. 

That said, the rest of their OL is rock solid, so it won't be too bad for them.

I was shocked they didn't use a high pick on an OT. They have talked seriously about the idea of moving Quenton Nelson to OT. That would be interesting. They seem to think he can make the move.

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The Colts are faced with the prospect of possibly having Julien Davenport as their LT going into the season

I am giddy about that.  Reading the Colts board, they are less than giddy about that.

They have talked about bringing in Villanueva or Eric Fisher. 

That said, the rest of their OL is rock solid, so it won't be too bad for them.

I was shocked they didn't use a high pick on an OT. They have talked seriously about the idea of moving Quenton Nelson to OT. That would be interesting. They seem to think he can make the move.

I was too.  I like Kwity Paye, but when Darrisaw was there, I thought it was a no brainer for them.  I'm thinking they didn't like his run blocking considering how good the rest of their OL is in run blocking.

I think Nelson could perform decently at LT, but he's far better inside.  Their OL would be worse switching him to LT.

But if they don't bring in anyone else, either LT or LG (id Nelson is moved) is going to be a problem for them.  But I don't see anyone they could bring in at this stage that would be much of a help.  Villanueva is experienced but finished, as I fear is Solder.  Fisher tore his Achilles in late January.  There's no telling when he'll be ready to go or if he'll be anywhere what he was before the injury once he is ready to return.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

I still think this is the Titans' division to lose. They had a good free agency and one of the better drafts this past weekend. Given the uncertainty of the rest of the teams in the division. I think they will run away with it. I believe we did make up a little ground on the Colts, so that will be interesting to see what happens. I think Carson Wentz will return to his 2019 form and will be a good starter for Indy. The Texans are a complete disaster. They should undoubtedly be the favorite to have the #1 pick in the 2022 draft. If we can't beat them, I just don't know what to say. I see no chance that Watson is their starter in 2021 and he may never play in the NFL again, given his off the field issues.

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I still think this is the Titans' division to lose. They had a good free agency and one of the better drafts this past weekend. Given the uncertainty of the rest of the teams in the division. I think they will run away with it. I believe we did make up a little ground on the Colts, so that will be interesting to see what happens. I think Carson Wentz will return to his 2019 form and will be a good starter for Indy. The Texans are a complete disaster. They should undoubtedly be the favorite to have the #1 pick in the 2022 draft. If we can't beat them, I just don't know what to say. I see no chance that Watson is their starter in 2021 and he may never play in the NFL again, given his off the field issues.

Agreed completely.  I discused this very thing in the Division forum.

What sucks now for the Texans is that even assuming Watson can escape his legal issues, at this point, so many teams have resolved their QB situations-at least for now-the trade market for Watson is now suppressed, meaning they won't get as much for him as they would have gotten had they traded him before all this stuff happened.

If I had to predict the division standings


1.  Tennessee
2.  Indy (IF Wentz can be rehabbed)
3.  Jacksonville
4.  Houston

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!