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Russia invades Ukraine

#81
(This post was last modified: 02-26-2022, 02:09 PM by mikesez. Edited 2 times in total.)

(02-26-2022, 12:18 PM)Caldrac Wrote:
(02-26-2022, 10:53 AM)mikesez Wrote: Is your wife Bosnian Serb or Bosnian Bosnian?
Bosnia is one of those countries that doesn't really govern itself.  All decisions have to be approved by the High Representative.  The current High Representative was appointed by Germany but is not recognized by Russia.  Meanwhile the Serb areas are trying to secede from this arrangement.  So this is yet another part of the world where Russia is stirring the pot against the EU.

As for the President of Croatia, he shouldn't have said anything about Srbenicia, but, he did have a point.  What happened there was bad, but it was also an order of magnitude less bad than what happened in the 1940s.  I don't know why it matters, but, he wasn't wrong.  As they say, "you're not wrong, you're just an [BLEEP]".

Bosnian. They consider themselves ex Yugoslavians more than anything. Her dad is Orthodox religiously and her Mom is (was) Muslim during those times pre-War. After the War they fled to Germany and then eventually ended up here in Jacksonville in the 90's. They never want to live there again. 

They do have a long history of conflict over there. Her Grandmother's have both told me this. One came here with them in the 90s from her Mother's side and the other stayed in Bosnia and let her only son/child go. The grandmother still living in Bosnia was a War orphan from the 1940's. Her nor her husband, my father in law's parents, they have no clue who their real parents were. 

It's very deeply rooted over there. I often laugh with some of my friends here that think the US is littered with racist people, granted, we have our issues with that. However, from what I have seen geopolitically? Virtually almost of Europe and Africa is also deeply rooted in racism and hatred amongst each other. Asia is just as bad. Ethnic cleanses or attempts at ethnic cleanses were and, in some cases, still are widely viewed as acceptable over there. 

I agree with that last bit for sure. The 1940's were rough for a lot of European countries. Especially those caught in between Germany and Russia's power.


Right.  The Yugoslav government was usually encouraging people to set aside all the religious separation, but, they were also commies, so, not surprising that the people didn't go for it.  But your wife and her parents are examples to show that these types of petty, generational, religious conflicts are not necessary.  People can be in mixed marriages.  They don't have to believe what their parents believed.  It's really too bad there weren't more like her and her parents.
My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.
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#82
(This post was last modified: 02-26-2022, 02:35 PM by The Real Marty. Edited 4 times in total.)

(02-26-2022, 01:54 PM)mikesez Wrote:
(02-26-2022, 01:27 PM)Jag88 Wrote: There are reports that the Russians are frustrated.  Putin is pissed.

They're rolling tanks and APC's into Ukraine while Ukraine's air defenses are still functional and Ukrainian jets are still flying.  I'd be frustrated too!

Also, we, and others in the region, have supplied Ukraine with Javelin anti-tank missiles.  It's a self-guided fire-and-forget anti-armor missile.  It weighs 50 pounds, takes 30 seconds to set up and fire.  

It's quite a remarkable weapon.  Tanks nowadays have explosive tiles that are designed to defeat any incoming missile.  The tiles explode when the missile impacts, and that effectively defends the tank's underlying armor.  HOWEVER, the javelin uses a double warhead.  The first warhead explodes the exploding tiles on the outside of the tank, and that renders the tank defenseless to the second warhead.  


https://www.breitbart.com/national-secur...n-ukraine/
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#83

(02-26-2022, 12:07 PM)p_rushing Wrote:
(02-26-2022, 06:29 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: The video was faked?

It may have happened before Russian troops got there. So potentially it was an Ukrainian tank or being driven by them. It could also be a saboteur.

A lone tank, no backup, doesn't make a lot of sense when they are supposedly advancing to take the city. There were also reports of people using their free guns to internally fight and try to grab some power or steal some stuff.

The ghost of Kyiv was faked and was from a video game.


If Ukraine is allowed to negotiate, sounds like the US doesn't want them to, this should be over quickly. It just appears like all the liberals want Ukraine to stay open for their corruption.

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Sounds like someone is into conspiracy theories and making up excuses for Putin. Personally, I choose not to listen to Imperialist propaganda.
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#84

(02-26-2022, 12:30 PM)homebiscuit Wrote:
(02-26-2022, 12:07 PM)p_rushing Wrote: It may have happened before Russian troops got there. So potentially it was an Ukrainian tank or being driven by them. It could also be a saboteur.

A lone tank, no backup, doesn't make a lot of sense when they are supposedly advancing to take the city. There were also reports of people using their free guns to internally fight and try to grab some power or steal some stuff.

The ghost of Kyiv was faked and was from a video game.


If Ukraine is allowed to negotiate, sounds like the US doesn't want them to, this should be over quickly. It just appears like all the liberals want Ukraine to stay open for their corruption.

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https://twitter.com/Lxwolf1/status/14972...m7a82RXEqg
I know there is the longer video but it's still the lone tank and a truck that is disabled. That truck could have already been there or was just disabled. The tank though comes up after some time because there is a non-uniformed person next to the truck. Then afterwards 2 uniformed people come and kill him. They don't go towards the tank and stay in the open but look to be looking off camera and moving behind some cover.

The time the video first appeared supposedly doesn't match the troop locations and the video location. You also don't have any clear indication on who the people are and which side they are on.


Both sides are trying to win the propaganda war but the MSM is all in on Ukraine. You have elites coming out and saying Ukraine's liberal democracy is at stake. A weird thing is Russia hasn't killed the power or internet. They must want people getting things out.

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#85

Apparently, Putin's spokesman has a daughter that has been going on social media opposing what Russia is doing. I hope she has a heavy coat, because Putin is going to be sending her to a Siberian prison.
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#86
(This post was last modified: 02-26-2022, 04:03 PM by p_rushing.)

(02-26-2022, 03:28 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: Sounds like someone is into conspiracy theories and making up excuses for Putin. Personally, I choose not to listen to Imperialist propaganda.

It's propaganda from both sides. I'm just listening to both sides and not taking a side until we see the facts from actions.

Putin has a history of taking out the global elites. Those elites have been involved in Ukraine, look at all the money flowing in, politicians family with jobs and business deals, money laundering, and pushing NATO. He can't allow them to continue to encroach on Russia. There are also neo-nazis there and Russians in the east have been persecuted.

Ukraine is a free country and appears to have been trying to move past some of its history with the installation of the past president by the elites. They should be defended as much as possible to create a peaceful outcome that doesn't lead to W3. They can't defend themselves because of all the money being sent hasn't ended up where it was supposed to. They are trying to establish their freedom now and make sure it is secured with the EU.


Putin and Ukraine both have issues. They can both be right at the same time. Putin isn't pure evil like the MSM is pushing now, he is Russia first. That doesn't make him good though and doesn't make attacking Ukraine right. Ukraine has been used by elites to launder our taxes and the world's money into the elites pockets. That doesn't mean the people should pay the price and lose their freedoms.

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#88

There absolutely has been corruption in Ukraine. The Ukrainians know it. Zelenskyy's campaign platform in 2019 was to eliminate corruption.
However in the 30 years of Ukrainian independence, most of the corruption is tied up with Russian oligarchs, not western elites. Their big move in 2014 was to try to get more involved with western elites instead of Russian ones, which is how Hunter Biden ended up in their orbit. But that was a very recent, and not very effective, change. Westerners aren't very interested in corrupt arrangements and Ukrainian firms are still catching up on how to do accounting for capitalists. Most of Ukraine's entanglements remain with Russia.
Putin is at least as corrupt, and probably more corrupt, than any leader Ukraine has ever had.
The simplest explanation for Putin doing this invasion now, instead of any time from 2014 to 2019, is that Zelenskyy really was getting close to revealing what at least some of Russia's oligarchs have actually done with the wealth of Russia.
My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.
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#89
(This post was last modified: 02-26-2022, 04:47 PM by Caldrac.)

(02-26-2022, 04:37 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: https://twitter.com/christogrozev/status...RRAWknwX1Q

Looks vintage.

To be fair though. I don't think Putin is going to send his most prized possessions of war and military equipment directly into Ukraine at the moment.
[Image: 4SXW6gC.png]

"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."
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#90

(02-26-2022, 04:03 PM)p_rushing Wrote:
(02-26-2022, 03:28 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: Sounds like someone is into conspiracy theories and making up excuses for Putin. Personally, I choose not to listen to Imperialist propaganda.

It's propaganda from both sides. I'm just listening to both sides and not taking a side until we see the facts from actions.

Putin has a history of taking out the global elites. Those elites have been involved in Ukraine, look at all the money flowing in, politicians family with jobs and business deals, money laundering, and pushing NATO. He can't allow them to continue to encroach on Russia. There are also neo-nazis there and Russians in the east have been persecuted.

Ukraine is a free country and appears to have been trying to move past some of its history with the installation of the past president by the elites. They should be defended as much as possible to create a peaceful outcome that doesn't lead to W3. They can't defend themselves because of all the money being sent hasn't ended up where it was supposed to. They are trying to establish their freedom now and make sure it is secured with the EU.


Putin and Ukraine both have issues. They can both be right at the same time. Putin isn't pure evil like the MSM is pushing now, he is Russia first. That doesn't make him good though and doesn't make attacking Ukraine right. Ukraine has been used by elites to launder our taxes and the world's money into the elites pockets. That doesn't mean the people should pay the price and lose their freedoms.

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That corruption you speak of is embedded everywhere on this planet. Especially in our own Country. It's just a Plutocracy over here when you really crunch the numbers, follow the money and realize these puppets are all bumping elbows at the same dinner tables after they put on a little political theater to keep the majority willfully ignorant. 

Trump was at least interesting. He at least called it out for what it really was and I think that's why the people gravitated towards him. I don't think he's a Saint though. Problem is. Often times more than not. The people who should really be leading this Country end up getting seated in the back, marginalized and their voices drowned out by the mainstream media. 

[BLEEP] sucks. But that's the way of it.
[Image: 4SXW6gC.png]

"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."
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#91

(02-26-2022, 04:45 PM)Caldrac Wrote:
(02-26-2022, 04:37 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: https://twitter.com/christogrozev/status...RRAWknwX1Q

Looks vintage.

To be fair though. I don't think Putin is going to send his most prized possessions of war and military equipment directly into Ukraine at the moment.

I don't think Russia has many prized possessions with an economy smaller than that of Texas.
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#92

(02-26-2022, 05:11 PM)homebiscuit Wrote:
(02-26-2022, 04:45 PM)Caldrac Wrote: Looks vintage.

To be fair though. I don't think Putin is going to send his most prized possessions of war and military equipment directly into Ukraine at the moment.

I don't think Russia has many prized possessions with an economy smaller than that of Texas.

That kind of bothers me. You would think Russia has more than that for some reason. I wonder if he'll pull a [BLEEP] Doyle move from Dutch and then things go off on accident. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6d0mZX7Siw
[Image: 4SXW6gC.png]

"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."
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#93

(02-26-2022, 05:11 PM)homebiscuit Wrote:
(02-26-2022, 04:45 PM)Caldrac Wrote: Looks vintage.

To be fair though. I don't think Putin is going to send his most prized possessions of war and military equipment directly into Ukraine at the moment.

I don't think Russia has many prized possessions with an economy smaller than that of Texas.

The oligarchs are extremely wealthy regardless of the official size of their economy.  A lot of people theorize that their economy has actually grown at a healthy rate since the end of communism, but, the statisticians don't see it because it is skimmed off the top and hidden elsewhere.
My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.
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#94

(02-26-2022, 05:59 PM)mikesez Wrote:
(02-26-2022, 05:11 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: I don't think Russia has many prized possessions with an economy smaller than that of Texas.

The oligarchs are extremely wealthy regardless of the official size of their economy.  A lot of people theorize that their economy has actually grown at a healthy rate since the end of communism, but, the statisticians don't see it because it is skimmed off the top and hidden elsewhere.

That makes sense since their country is ruled by a glorified mob boss.
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#95
(This post was last modified: 02-26-2022, 08:47 PM by p_rushing.)

More and more fake videos and pictures coming out. Live streams are showing somewhat normal weekend.

Using old shots from the president. A woman from a gas explosion years ago now being claimed as a bombing victim. Videos showing small conflicts only. Snake island troops claimed to have died fighting are shown on video surrendering. Bombings happened but for the fact that this is a boots on the ground war, there is very little real footage.

Right now it is just really weird and if you aren't asking questions, you are probably someone who still believes all the covid lies. If Russia was going to openly wage war and occupy Ukraine, I doubt they leave the electricity, natural gas, and cell towers and internet up and running. Maybe some real footage will come out but right now it doesn't look like an open war is being fought.

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#96
(This post was last modified: 02-26-2022, 09:10 PM by mikesez. Edited 1 time in total.)

(02-26-2022, 08:42 PM)p_rushing Wrote: More and more fake videos and pictures coming out. Live streams are showing somewhat normal weekend.

Using old shots from the president. A woman from a gas explosion years ago now being claimed as a bombing victim. Videos showing small conflicts only. Snake island troops claimed to have died fighting are shown on video surrendering. Bombings happened but for the fact that this is a boots on the ground war, there is very little real footage.

Right now it is just really weird and if you aren't asking questions, you are probably someone who still believes all the covid lies. If Russia was going to openly wage war and occupy Ukraine, I doubt they leave the electricity, natural gas, and cell towers and internet up and running. Maybe some real footage will come out but right now it doesn't look like an open war is being fought.

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You're right that there are fake videos and reports from both sides.  Neither side has any incentive to tell the whole truth.
I think we're having a healthy skepticism about most of it.  The truth will come out in time.
As for your allegation that this is not an "open war" because Ukraine still has a lot of their utilities running, Fox News is reporting that Russia just hit Kiev's main oil storage facility.  Russia seems to be trying to get Ukraine to surrender with as little damage as possible.  But Russia can and will escalate the pressure each day.
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#97

I have no dog in this fight. But I’m pulling for the Ukrainians. They got heart…
"If you always do what you've always done, You'll always get what you always got"
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#98

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blo...ore-228606

Wow...

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[Image: 4SXW6gC.png]

"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."
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#99

https://youtu.be/djSiLxsCTmg

Also odd.

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[Image: 4SXW6gC.png]

"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."
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(02-26-2022, 09:08 PM)mikesez Wrote: You're right that there are fake videos and reports from both sides.  Neither side has any incentive to tell the whole truth.
I think we're having a healthy skepticism about most of it.  The truth will come out in time.
As for your allegation that this is not an "open war" because Ukraine still has a lot of their utilities running, Fox News is reporting that Russia just hit Kiev's main oil storage facility.  Russia seems to be trying to get Ukraine to surrender with as little damage as possible.  But Russia can and will escalate the pressure each day.

I agree on the open war escalating. I saw something about internet being taken out but haven't looked to see if it was true. Then saw something about Elon sending satellites to get it back up. No clue to the truth of it but I do think it will turn into an open war if Putin doesn't get whatever his objective is.


(02-27-2022, 12:22 AM)Caldrac Wrote: https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blo...ore-228606

Wow...

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That is just touching tip of the iceberg. Even the tank running over the car has moved further into the faked category.

(02-27-2022, 12:34 AM)Caldrac Wrote: https://youtu.be/djSiLxsCTmg

Also odd.

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I saw that. He also has a WEF profile but that doesn't guarantee he is elite scum. He seems to be friends with the Polish leader and they are not a liberal country for the most part.

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