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Week 3 talk: Houston vs Jax

#81

Should be a get right game, but it is a division rival. Richardson has been a lot better than Stroud in the early going.
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#82
(This post was last modified: 09-19-2023, 03:23 PM by Caldrac. Edited 1 time in total.)

(09-19-2023, 03:00 PM)AnOldBrownie Wrote:
(09-19-2023, 02:55 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: I'd be looking to get ETN 16 carries or more ~20+ touches this Sunday

We tend to win when he gets hot. Gotta get him going.

Knock off half of the over-the-top clever stuff and gimmick/gadget plays.
Our more standard pass plays give defenses plenty to worry about and as folks are saying - utilize the TEs in the run game instead of a bunch of smoke and mirrors.

This offense can produce without needing a ton of flea-flicker-no-look-behind-the-back-pump-fake to-the-decoy-shovel-pass-to-the-kick-returner nonsense. Just line up and beat the damn guy across from you.

I don't think the coaching staff believes this with Harrison and Scherff on the right?   Trick plays need to be dialed up because the O-line is losing when it comes to man to man blocking.

If they didn't believe in them then why did the design razzle dazzle play go to their side of the field, not once, but, twice? The trick play with Kirk to Agnew was designed to be on the right side of the formation. Same for the backdoor screen they were looking to set up with Etienne that got shutdown by Jones with a batted pass. 

Why would you also risk a trick play with an already struggling offensive line? It takes even more time to get that to work and it leaves plenty of time for their front four to react and attack collectively. They just need to get back to the fundamentals and start overloading and stacking in one area of the field with their best personnel. 

Think of it as the exact same way a defense tries to attack our line. If they stack or send their blitzes predominately up the middle or to the right? They should be deliberately stacking, motioning, pulling and scheming right back to that point of attack to wear it down or get them to back off. 

You're not going to feel as comfortable sending or stacking two defenders over Fortner, Scherff and Harrison if I have a split backfield with Etienne, Strange and Engram all leaning towards that very same side of the formation. You could also make a case for stacking Kirk and Ridley together more often on one side of the field.

Those are your two best route runners on the team. Let them work actual razzle dazzle with their route running and make plays downfield or underneath. There's a lot of potential here. It's really looking like a case of maybe TOO much at their disposal. Kind of like when you buy too many cool gadgets and gizmos for your three year old for Christmas and his room is just a cluttered mess all over the floor.

Get back to some of the bread and butter plays. Simplifying the gameplan by overloading it to one side of the field to shorten the read and react time from snap to execution. It'll go a long way as the season progresses.
[Image: 4SXW6gC.png]

"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."
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#83
(This post was last modified: 09-19-2023, 03:40 PM by flgatorsandjags. Edited 1 time in total.)

(09-19-2023, 02:40 PM)Caldrac Wrote:
(09-19-2023, 02:03 PM)AnOldBrownie Wrote: Our PFF ratings for Fortner, Scherff and Harrison were beyond bad in the Chiefs game.  If the coaching staff can't figure out how to get them to "execute" better this game will be a toss up.

Even with the poor pass block rating the Jaguars weren't bad running the ball against the Chiefs.    Run the ball to set up the pass, and stick with it.

They kind of gave up on the running game here and there. Which made no sense in a one possession game. They still struggled in creating any running lanes though for Etienne early. 

I think what they need to do, is, more of the TE's being sent in motion and pulling back inside. They did that a few times and Etienne was getting 5 - 6 YPC on the two to three attempts they did it. 

This is a good foundation to build around IMHO. If you think about it, if you can run the football well enough on 1st and 2nd downs utilizing Engram, Strange and Farrell in this regard? It could help set-up some nice play action options later on in the game. Where a guy like Engram or Strange pretends like they're motioning inside to block for Etienne but it's actually a nice route being leaked out into the flat for 10+ yards or more. 

Engram is especially good after the catch. Strange has the physicality as well to his game to where he could contribute in a similar fashion. You took him and Bigsby in the 2nd and 3rd RD respectively in April. I know it's early but they need to get them involved more.
Good post.  This is when Doug is at his best and gets in his bag of tricks and great play callong.  Also when the run game gets going.  Hopefully we see more of it

Not necessarily trick plays but just creative play calling like Andy Reid and like Doug usually does
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#84

Stroud is having a Bortles like season. Getting those garbage time stats
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#85

(09-19-2023, 03:37 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote:
(09-19-2023, 02:40 PM)Caldrac Wrote: They kind of gave up on the running game here and there. Which made no sense in a one possession game. They still struggled in creating any running lanes though for Etienne early. 

I think what they need to do, is, more of the TE's being sent in motion and pulling back inside. They did that a few times and Etienne was getting 5 - 6 YPC on the two to three attempts they did it. 

This is a good foundation to build around IMHO. If you think about it, if you can run the football well enough on 1st and 2nd downs utilizing Engram, Strange and Farrell in this regard? It could help set-up some nice play action options later on in the game. Where a guy like Engram or Strange pretends like they're motioning inside to block for Etienne but it's actually a nice route being leaked out into the flat for 10+ yards or more. 

Engram is especially good after the catch. Strange has the physicality as well to his game to where he could contribute in a similar fashion. You took him and Bigsby in the 2nd and 3rd RD respectively in April. I know it's early but they need to get them involved more.
Good post.  This is when Doug is at his best and gets in his bag of tricks and great play callong.  Also when the run game gets going.  Hopefully we see more of it

Not necessarily trick plays but just creative play calling like Andy Reid and like Doug usually does

Doug Pederson isn't calling the plays. 

I mean, I'm sure he's regulating the calls to a degree, but he isn't actually calling the plays.

Now, he is definitely making final decisions on a game plan, and I really hope he plans to get ETN cooking in this one. 
TE blocking - whether inside or out -  should help. All of that is great. I hope they do it. 

You mentioned a bag of tricks. I think the bag of tricks is what hurt us vs the chefs. 
I want him to stay OUT of the bag of tricks and run the damn football 20 times before the 4th quarter starts. 
Even the screens and short to intermediate passes can stay relatively simple. 
We have players that can win their match ups (minus a few linemen he must account for) and he does not need "tricks" to outgun the texans IMO. Didn't really need them vs the chefs either. 

It's time to revert to the old KISS method for this offense.

Keep
It
Simple,
Stupid
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#86

(09-19-2023, 03:45 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: Stroud is having a Bortles like season. Getting those garbage time stats

I think this could be a really interesting game. Potentially a bloodbath if Caldwell dials up the right pressure at the right time and Allen is in the game. I would like to see what happened with the Browns last night against the Steelers. Just constant pressure in the backfield. 

I could see them trying to use some screens early and especially draw plays with Pierce but this defense has been good against the run already in two weeks in particular. That's factoring in Richardson's ability to run and create with his legs as well as Mahomes. 

Stroud doesn't seem to be the same dual threat. I really think Campbell, Williams and Lloyd are going to have some opportunities to make multiple plays on the football in coverages this Sunday.
[Image: 4SXW6gC.png]

"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."
Reply

#87

(09-19-2023, 03:00 PM)AnOldBrownie Wrote:
(09-19-2023, 02:55 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: I'd be looking to get ETN 16 carries or more ~20+ touches this Sunday

We tend to win when he gets hot. Gotta get him going.

Knock off half of the over-the-top clever stuff and gimmick/gadget plays.
Our more standard pass plays give defenses plenty to worry about and as folks are saying - utilize the TEs in the run game instead of a bunch of smoke and mirrors.

This offense can produce without needing a ton of flea-flicker-no-look-behind-the-back-pump-fake to-the-decoy-shovel-pass-to-the-kick-returner nonsense. Just line up and beat the damn guy across from you.

I don't think the coaching staff believes this with Harrison and Scherff on the right?   Trick plays need to be dialed up because the O-line is losing when it comes to man to man blocking.

You don't fix struggling individual OL play with jazz-hands and razzle-dazzle.  Just get a TE or RB to line up or motion that way and help protect or block. 

Either that - or get the ball out of the QBs hands ultra quick with 2 read pass plays out of shotgun. 

Do something that allows those two or three struggling O-linmen to fail that won't kill the play. 
Not something that totally falls apart in one of the eleven players on the field gets thrown off his timing, positioning, or loses his blocking assignment.
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#88

This is a win. Bouncing back from the KC game.
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#89

(09-19-2023, 03:56 PM)NYC4jags Wrote:
(09-19-2023, 03:37 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: Good post.  This is when Doug is at his best and gets in his bag of tricks and great play callong.  Also when the run game gets going.  Hopefully we see more of it

Not necessarily trick plays but just creative play calling like Andy Reid and like Doug usually does

Doug Pederson isn't calling the plays. 

I mean, I'm sure he's regulating the calls to a degree, but he isn't actually calling the plays.

Now, he is definitely making final decisions on a game plan, and I really hope he plans to get ETN cooking in this one. 
TE blocking - whether inside or out -  should help. All of that is great. I hope they do it. 

You mentioned a bag of tricks. I think the bag of tricks is what hurt us vs the chefs. 
I want him to stay OUT of the bag of tricks and run the damn football 20 times before the 4th quarter starts. 
Even the screens and short to intermediate passes can stay relatively simple. 
We have players that can win their match ups (minus a few linemen he must account for) and he does not need "tricks" to outgun the texans IMO. Didn't really need them vs the chefs either. 

It's time to revert to the old KISS method for this offense.

Keep
It
Simple,
Stupid

You missed the first part of the 2nd post.  "Not necessarily trick plays but just creative play calling".  He needs to mix it up and get creative on offense.  We def need to run the ball more.  I thought we drafted Tank and Strange to help us in short yardage situations and the dont use them like that.  Even running the ball we you can get creative in run calls.  Doug and Reid have always done it and Press has learned from Doug.
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#90

Division games are a crapshoot.

We better come to play and win because if we dont I'm gonna have a huge meltdown
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#91

(09-19-2023, 07:33 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote:
(09-19-2023, 03:56 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: Doug Pederson isn't calling the plays. 

I mean, I'm sure he's regulating the calls to a degree, but he isn't actually calling the plays.

Now, he is definitely making final decisions on a game plan, and I really hope he plans to get ETN cooking in this one. 
TE blocking - whether inside or out -  should help. All of that is great. I hope they do it. 

You mentioned a bag of tricks. I think the bag of tricks is what hurt us vs the chefs. 
I want him to stay OUT of the bag of tricks and run the damn football 20 times before the 4th quarter starts. 
Even the screens and short to intermediate passes can stay relatively simple. 
We have players that can win their match ups (minus a few linemen he must account for) and he does not need "tricks" to outgun the texans IMO. Didn't really need them vs the chefs either. 

It's time to revert to the old KISS method for this offense.

Keep
It
Simple,
Stupid

You missed the first part of the 2nd post.  "Not necessarily trick plays but just creative play calling".  He needs to mix it up and get creative on offense.  We def need to run the ball more.  I thought we drafted Tank and Strange to help us in short yardage situations and the dont use them like that.  Even running the ball we you can get creative in run calls.  Doug and Reid have always done it and Press has learned from Doug.

They have  been pretty creative with their run calls IMO. It's just resulting in more missed blocks when I look at the tape. 
They've got struggling linemen overthinking their blocking assignments. 

They are also over thinking the RB passes that are an extension of the run game IMO. 

Every screen or RB pass play doesn't need 3 different decoys. 
Sometimes a simple QB look to the left sideline receiver followed quickly by a swing pass to the right is all you need. 

Don't get me wrong - I don't want a Doug Marrone power run game lining up against a stacked box and daring them to stop us. I just think they can lose about half of the bells and whistles. 

Tired of seeing Ben Bartch fish a protractor out of his sock so he can navigate a path to pull-block between Scherff and Harrison only to run squarely into Fortner who just got bull-rushed into next Wednesday in .5 seconds flat. 

Make it simple for these guys until they can execute something.

(09-19-2023, 08:23 PM)BaLLin4Life Wrote: Division games are a crapshoot.

We better come to play and win because if we dont I'm gonna have a huge meltdown

Welcome.

Looks like you'll fit in just fine.
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#92

Do we ever run running back screens? I honestly can’t remember one. Wouldn’t that slow down the pass rush some?
[Image: IMG-1452.jpg]
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#93

(09-19-2023, 08:26 PM)RicoTx Wrote: Do we ever run running back screens?  I honestly can’t remember one.  Wouldn’t that slow down the pass rush some?

They do it more to the TE than the RB for some reason, but yes. 
Attempting them and actually pulling them off are two different animals however. 

I think I've seen 2 or 3 TE screens each of the past two weeks and maybe one RB screen attempt that was busted before the RB could finish leaking out. 

Would be a wise skill for this offense to get sorted about now.
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#94

(09-19-2023, 08:25 PM)NYC4jags Wrote:
(09-19-2023, 07:33 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: You missed the first part of the 2nd post.  "Not necessarily trick plays but just creative play calling".  He needs to mix it up and get creative on offense.  We def need to run the ball more.  I thought we drafted Tank and Strange to help us in short yardage situations and the dont use them like that.  Even running the ball we you can get creative in run calls.  Doug and Reid have always done it and Press has learned from Doug.

They have  been pretty creative with their run calls IMO. It's just resulting in more missed blocks when I look at the tape. 
They've got struggling linemen overthinking their blocking assignments. 

They are also over thinking the RB passes that are an extension of the run game IMO. 

Every screen or RB pass play doesn't need 3 different decoys. 
Sometimes a simple QB look to the left sideline receiver followed quickly by a swing pass to the right is all you need. 

Don't get me wrong - I don't want a Doug Marrone power run game lining up against a stacked box and daring them to stop us. I just think they can lose about half of the bells and whistles. 

Tired of seeing Ben Bartch fish a protractor out of his sock so he can navigate a path to pull-block between Scherff and Harrison only to run squarely into Fortner who just got bull-rushed into next Wednesday in .5 seconds flat. 

Make it simple for these guys until they can execute something.

(09-19-2023, 08:23 PM)BaLLin4Life Wrote: Division games are a crapshoot.

We better come to play and win because if we dont I'm gonna have a huge meltdown

Welcome.

Looks like you'll fit in just fine.

Thanks I need to work on that....

I love football season but when Jags lose it just messes up my upcoming week completetly....
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#95
(This post was last modified: 09-19-2023, 11:50 PM by OzJohnnie. Edited 1 time in total.)

One thing that DP highlighted a few times in press conferences is that the team failed to execute on first down too frequently and faced 2 and long far too often. So, let's check the stats:

First series of downs, Q1 (This series did well enough on first down)
* 1 yard run, 2nd and 9
* 17 yard pass, first and 10
* 4 yard run, 2nd and 6
* Punt ends the series

Second series, Q1 (Doh!)
* Incomplete, 2nd and 10
* Punt ends the series

Third series, Q2 (On the back foot every time)
* 2 yard run, 2nd and 8
* 1 yard run, 2nd and 9
* 0 yard run, 2nd and 10
*. Fumble ends the series

Fourth series, Q2 (2nd and long, missed opportunity to score more)
* 3 yard run, 2nd and 7
* FG ends the series

Fifth series, Q2 (Aborted before it started)
* Fumble on the first play to end the series

Sixth series, Q2 (Was prime until it wasn't)
* 5 yard run, 2nd and 5
* 5 yard run, 2nd and 5
* 8 yard run, 2nd and 2
* Incompletion, 2nd and 10
* Turnover on downs ends the series

Seventh series, Q2 (Was better than prime until time ran out)
* 11 yard pass, 1st and 10
* 26 yard pass, 1st and 10
* 4 yard pass, 2nd and 6
* FG ends the series

Eight series, Q3 (Good then bad)
* 9 yard run, 1st and 10
* Sacked, 2nd and 17
* Punt ends the series

Ninth series, Q3 (Didn't get started)
* 1 yard run, 2nd and 9
* Punt ends the series

Tenth series, Q4 (Great until a bad first down loses the points)
* 45 yard pass, 1st and 10
* 9 yard pass, 2nd and 1
* 5 yard run, 2nd and 5
* -3 yard run, 2nd and goal
* FG ends the series

Eleventh series, Q4 (Great until... not)
* Incompletion, 2nd and 10
* 11 yard pass, 1st and 10
* 18 yard run, 1st and 10
* 4 yard pass, 2nd and 6
* 11 yard pass, 1st and 10
* Incompletion, 2nd and 10
* Turnover on downs

A few observations:

* The offence got 11 chances with the ball but only managed three scores, all FGs.
* Of the 29 first downs, only 48% resulted in 2nd and 6 or less. 52% resulted in 2nd and long. (I counted the -3 yard run at the goal line as a 2nd and long sort of result).
* Every series was killed by a second and long set of downs except for the drive at the end of the first half which was killed by the clock.


Are those acceptable results in terms of 2nd and long or was the offence continually starting with it's back against the wall? I dunno, personally, but DP was not happy with them.
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#96

Kc was kc. Their defense is top notch. They handled the lions offense well too except without Chris jones. We are just about half way to game day!
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#97
(This post was last modified: 09-20-2023, 06:37 AM by JagFanatic24. Edited 1 time in total.)

Texans WR Nico Collins in top 5 in receiving yards in the NFL. Stroud is 4th in passing yards
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#98

(09-20-2023, 06:37 AM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: Texans WR Nico Collins in top 5 in receiving yards in the NFL. Stroud is 4th in passing yards

Remember when Bortles was 2nd in TDs and yards?
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#99
(This post was last modified: 09-20-2023, 07:51 AM by Caldrac. Edited 1 time in total.)

(09-20-2023, 07:31 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote:
(09-20-2023, 06:37 AM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: Texans WR Nico Collins in top 5 in receiving yards in the NFL. Stroud is 4th in passing yards

Remember when Bortles was 2nd in TDs and yards?

He's a 2nd half, garbage time QB so far through two weeks. More than half of his passing yards have come in the 4th quarter. Really, 2/3. 

1st quarter: 9/15 for 61 yards and 1 TD
2nd quarter: 12/20 for 137 yards
3rd quarter: 15/19 for 151 yards
4th quarter: 37/56 for 425 yards and 1 TD

They don't run a ton of play action. Only see him 6/10 on those plays. He's been sacked on four of those attempts. He spends a lot of time operating out of the gun, not a ton of work under center. Again, he's a rookie, nothing surprising about that. If we lose this game at home, we suck, and they deserve it.
[Image: 4SXW6gC.png]

"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."
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Just posting stats, make what you want out of it.
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