The baby seal clubbing Germany gave Brazil skews those numbers quite a bit, but the European teams were more impressive, imo.

Though of course I'm biased I think the order of Germany, Netherlands, Argentina, Brazil would be most correct for the last four teams in this World Cup.

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And no way Messi was the best player of the tournament. 

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I believe the point is to determine the winner, not rank the top four in order.

No doubt that is the point, just like any other tournament. Why even have the 3rd place match then based on that rationale? My thinking is that if they are going to do the extra game with teams that lost, you might as well play a true second.

 

That and the purpose of the third place match is to make the FIFA a few extra million dollars.

I understand why FIFA does the third place game, heck, another game for true second would only produce more money as well. My thinking behind the post was strictly speaking from a competitive standpoint. If it's worth doing a third place match, it is worth finding a true second.

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TravC59, aka JacksJags. @TravC59 on Twitter
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And no way Messi was the best player of the tournament. 

That would be fun to discuss. I don't think it was Messi either, although to his team he is definitely most valuable. (I also really like Higuan for the Argentinians too. He's tough, quick, smart).  I think (Although I may be wrong there as look what happened with Brazil with Neymar out, Silva too).

 

I'd go Mueller, or maybe even Rodriguez who had a wonderful tourney.

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TravC59, aka JacksJags. @TravC59 on Twitter
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True second. Done a lot in wrestling. In this case the Netherlands would play Argentina if Germany beats Argentina. To see who was the true second place team. I think if they are going to play he two losers of the semis for third and fourth, you should play for true second.

The team who loses in the final is the second place team. Why should Argentina play Holland again? That doesn't make sense n

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The team who loses in the final is the second place team. Why should Argentina play Holland again? That doesn't make sense n

It's called true second. It's done in many other tournaments. It finds the true 2nd place team. Why should the losers of the semis play for third if the ultimate goal is to only find the winner? If playing for third is important, then finding true second isn't bad at all. How do we know that Argentina is the 2nd best team in the tourney?

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TravC59, aka JacksJags. @TravC59 on Twitter
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I understand why FIFA does the third place game, heck, another game for true second would only produce more money as well. My thinking behind the post was strictly speaking from a competitive standpoint. If it's worth doing a third place match, it is worth finding a true second.

The point is to end the tournament on a high note which is the final. What would another game after that accomplish other than resentment from the losing finalist over having to play again? Most people consider the third place match a useless game, a "true second" game would be consider a bloody travesty. 

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It's called true second. It's done in many other tournaments. It finds the true 2nd place team. Why should the losers of the semis play for third if the ultimate goal is to only find the winner? If playing for third is important, then finding true second isn't bad at all. How do we know that Argentina is the 2nd best team in the tourney?

How do you know Germany is better than Netherlands if they haven't played each other? 

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It's called true second. It's done in many other tournaments. It finds the true 2nd place team. Why should the losers of the semis play for third if the ultimate goal is to only find the winner? If playing for third is important, then finding true second isn't bad at all. How do we know that Argentina is the 2nd best team in the tourney?

What other team sports do it?


Because the final has the final two teams in the tournament. It's the same reason Germany doesn't have to play another game to prove they are the best. The third place game is a one-off consolation game between the final four teams who lost.

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The point is to end the tournament on a high note which is the final. What would another game after that accomplish other than resentment from the losing finalist over having to play again? Most people consider the third place match a useless game, a "true second" game would be consider a bloody travesty. 

That's the point, the third place match is useless competitivley speaking. Why is thi shard to grasp?

 

How do you know Germany is better than Netherlands if they haven't played each other? 

Because they beat the team who beat them, thus no need for them to play. The tournament figured that out already.

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TravC59, aka JacksJags. @TravC59 on Twitter
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What other team sports do it?


Because the final has the final two teams in the tournament. It's the same reason Germany doesn't have to play another game to prove they are the best. The third place game is a one-off consolation game between the final four teams who lost.

Wrestling is the most popular. I coach wrestling and that is what got my mind rolling.

 

Why would Germany play another game to prove they are the best? They wouldn't have to play another.

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TravC59, aka JacksJags. @TravC59 on Twitter
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How do you know Germany is better than Netherlands if they haven't played each other?

True.

I know it's set up now is the best, and will never be changed.


But, hypothetically, they could take all 4 semifinalists and go back to a "Group" round/scoring, possibly without having Draws (keeping extra time/pk). Having draws may skew a team's strategy.


That way, all 4 teams play each other. All games could be played simultaneously. And, FIFA and the world's fans get an extra couple matches out of it all.


Purely wild speculation/daydreaming, never gonna happen. But, you should truly get the best of all 4 in order.


Whatta ya think?

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True.

I know it's set up now is the best, and will never be changed.


But, hypothetically, they could take all 4 semifinalists and go back to a "Group" round/scoring, possibly without having Draws (keeping extra time/pk). Having draws may skew a team's strategy.


That way, all 4 teams play each other. All games could be played simultaneously. And, FIFA and the world's fans get an extra couple matches out of it all.


Purely wild speculation/daydreaming, never gonna happen. But, you should truly get the best of all 4 in order.


Whatta ya think?

You're right, it will never change with the way it is now.

 

The third place game is absolutely pointless from a competitive standpoint though.

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TravC59, aka JacksJags. @TravC59 on Twitter
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No it isn't. 3rd place means you are, at worst, the 3rd best team in the world. That is the point of the 3rd place game.

 

Besides Wrestling at your level, what other sports play a "true second"? I know that none of:

baseball, basketball, hockey, or soccer play "true seconds".

 

In fact, looking at the Olympic Wrestling brackets, it doesn't appear that they play a "true second" either. The loser of the of the final match is awarded the Silver medal (or 2nd place) and the losers of the semifinals play in bronze-medal bouts.

 

I'd say it is much, much, more common to do it the way they did it than play for a "true second".

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No it isn't. 3rd place means you are, at worst, the 3rd best team in the world. That is the point of the 3rd place game.

 

Besides Wrestling at your level, what other sports play a "true second"? I know that none of:

baseball, basketball, hockey, or soccer play "true seconds".

 

In fact, looking at the Olympic Wrestling brackets, it doesn't appear that they play a "true second" either. The loser of the of the final match is awarded the Silver medal (or 2nd place) and the losers of the semifinals play in bronze-medal bouts.

 

I'd say it is much, much, more common to do it the way they did it than play for a "true second".

Olympics do not do it, no. And nom taking third doesn't mean you are the true 3rd place team if you have not played the team who lost in finals.

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TravC59, aka JacksJags. @TravC59 on Twitter
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So in your mind, they should scrap all bracket systems and only play round robins? I mean, Villanova might have been the 2nd best team in college basketball. Kentucky shouldn't be crowned runner-up.

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You said your secret format is used in many tournaments.... Yet the sport you cite doesn't even use that format at its highest level. That isn't very convincing.

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So in your mind, they should scrap all bracket systems and only play round robins? I mean, Villanova might have been the 2nd best team in college basketball. Kentucky shouldn't be crowned runner-up.

Why are you assuming things? I suggested that if you are going to play a third place game between two semi-final losers, you may as well play for a true second to find the true second place team. My point is, if a third place game is important, then competitively speaking, so is true second. I am not sure why an opinion has you all ruffled.

 

Bringing in the NCAA basketball tournament is meaningless.

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TravC59, aka JacksJags. @TravC59 on Twitter
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You said your secret format is used in many tournaments.... Yet the sport you cite doesn't even use that format at its highest level. That isn't very convincing.

Many was wrong use of words. Their are sports who use it, some pick and choose when it is used, including wrestling. I never suggested it was done so at the Olympic level. If that's your sticking point on an opinion, then, ok.

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TravC59, aka JacksJags. @TravC59 on Twitter
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It's done this way at every global level I'm familiar with:

 

Winter Olympics

Summer Olympics

World Cup

World University Games

Little League World Series

 

 

I think those are more reputable tournaments than High School wrestling.

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