No, you have ignored this point twice. I wouldn't have to repeat it for a 3rd time if you acknowledged it:

A CB could do his job 99 times out of 100 so well that the QB can't even throw his way... yet Passer Rating Against would give ZERO credit to those 99 plays, correct?

 

When targeted? So if the QB looks the other way 59 times a game and targets Ramsey once for a completion - he'd give up 100% completions when targeted?


Is that how that stat works?

 

If you're pushing the definition to the max, yes. 

 

No, I answered that attempt at hyperbole too if you would read. You clearly aren't wanting to have an honest conversation when you instantly jump to a 99 out of 100 example when you and I both know the truth isn't nearly that extreme. 

 

Now goodbye to this thread for real. 

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Wait...

 

We seriously have a 5 page thread arguing if Ramsey is below average or not?

 

Wow.

 

I guess after that Titan's game we're reaching for ANYTHING we can possibly complain about.

 

 

Also, just to add to the debate... how do these numbers compare against OTHER top CBs who primarily cover #1 WRs?

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PA Jags Fan
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; Supporting from long distance

Holy hell I said I don't have them numerous times. Numbers for cornerbacks aren't readily available, at least not for free. Can you stop repeating yourself and read my responses please.


I did also show that it's not easy to [BAD WORD REMOVED] over a 100+ passer rating, so it's not just a couple high % underneath routes per game that is giving us false numbers.

Marqise Lee has a passer rating of 158.

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Oh yeah...

 

31 attempts over 8 games.

 

Meaning opposing QBs were willing to try him LESS THAN 4 TIMES PER GAME.

 

Turrible.  Cut him.

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PA Jags Fan
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; Supporting from long distance

No, I answered that attempt at hyperbole too if you would read. You clearly aren't wanting to have an honest conversation when you instantly jump to a 99 out of 100 example when you and I both know the truth isn't nearly that extreme. 

 

Now goodbye to this thread for real. 

 

You are leaving because I provided volume numbers.

 

"7 games

22 receptions

301 yards

1 TD



An average of 3 catches and 43 yards per game in weeks 1 through 8."

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Week 1 through Week 8

<a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000732885/article/jalen-ramsey-has-solid-start-norman-drops-in-cb-rankings'>http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000732885/article/jalen-ramsey-has-solid-start-norman-drops-in-cb-rankings</a>

This season, the Jags CB has allowed 22 receptions on 31 targets (71 percent) for 301 yards (13.7 yards per catch) and a touchdown-to-interception ratio of 1:0. Ramsey has covered the opponent's best receiver for the majority of pass plays three times this season -- Indianapolis' <a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.nfl.com/player/t.y.hilton/2532865/profile'>T.Y. Hilton</a> <a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2016100200/2016/REG4/colts@jaguars'>in Week 4</a>, Chicago's <a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.nfl.com/player/alshonjeffery/2533039/profile'>Alshon Jeffery</a> <a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2016101601/2016/REG6/jaguars@bears'>in Week 6</a> and Oakland's <a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.nfl.com/player/amaricooper/2552487/profile'>Amari Cooper</a> <a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2016102303/2016/REG7/raiders@jaguars'>in Week 7</a>. Ramsey gave up three catches for 11 yards on four targets to Hilton, five receptions for 84 yards on 10 targets to Jeffery, and one catch for 4 yards on one target to Cooper. He didn't allow any of them to get in the end zone.

The physical Ramsey, who has just one pass defensed this season, is at his best when he's up on the line. He does a good job at getting his hands on the receiver and disrupting timing between the quarterback and his target. Ramsey can play in the slot or outside, but I think he's is better suited for playing on the perimeter, as he can play with anybody near the sideline. In the second half of the season, I want to see his off-coverage play improve -- and it should, with more reps.




7 games

22 receptions

301 yards

1 TD



An average of 3 catches and 43 yards per game in weeks 1 through 8.

Ah yes you found the stats!


Take away the 64 yard blown coverage that Dorsett scored on it goes down to 33 yards per game.

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Also consider he has or will have shadowed a Pro Bowl wide receiver in 11 out of 16 games this season (12 if you included Cordarelle Patterson, but he didn't shadow him and he is a Pro Bowl special teamer, not receiver). That stat also doesn't include the very good players that haven't made a Pro Bowl like Sammy Watkins and Stefon Diggs.

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The big point is this:

 

"The physical Ramsey, who has just one pass defensed this season, is at his best when he's up on the line. He does a good job at getting his hands on the receiver and disrupting timing between the quarterback and his target."

 

 

Passer Rating Against gives ZERO credit for plays where the WR isn't targeted..

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Ah yes you found the stats!


Take away the 64 yard blown coverage that Dorsett scored on it goes down to 33 yards per game.

Was there ever any clarity on who that blown coverage was actually even on?

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For once I like what Hail did here. lol

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KY is trying so hard to be the smartest guy in the room.

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No, I answered that attempt at hyperbole too if you would read. You clearly aren't wanting to have an honest conversation when you instantly jump to a 99 out of 100 example when you and I both know the truth isn't nearly that extreme. 

 

Now goodbye to this thread for real.

Get outta here with that. Honest conversation? We're using an absurd example to point out to you why the statistic you're throwing around is flawed.


And you still won't accept it.

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Gottaa love him leaving the thread after the stats clearly show he played well.

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Was there ever any clarity on who that blown coverage was actually even on?

Its either on Ramsey for dropping short instead of going up the field or its on Cyp for going short instead of letting Ramsey pass him off deep to him. Was credited against Ramsey though

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Week 1 through Week 8

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000...b-rankings

 

This season, the Jags CB has allowed 22 receptions on 31 targets (71 percent) for 301 yards (13.7 yards per catch) and a touchdown-to-interception ratio of 1:0. Ramsey has covered the opponent's best receiver for the majority of pass plays three times this season -- Indianapolis' T.Y. Hilton in Week 4, Chicago's Alshon Jeffery in Week 6 and Oakland's Amari Cooper in Week 7. Ramsey gave up three catches for 11 yards on four targets to Hilton, five receptions for 84 yards on 10 targets to Jeffery, and one catch for 4 yards on one target to Cooper. He didn't allow any of them to get in the end zone.

 

The physical Ramsey, who has just one pass defensed this season, is at his best when he's up on the line. He does a good job at getting his hands on the receiver and disrupting timing between the quarterback and his target. Ramsey can play in the slot or outside, but I think he's is better suited for playing on the perimeter, as he can play with anybody near the sideline. In the second half of the season, I want to see his off-coverage play improve -- and it should, with more reps.

 

 

 

7 games

22 receptions

301 yards

1 TD

 

 

An average of 3 catches and 43 yards per game in weeks 1 through 8.

 

Thank you for the stats proof he was not below average..

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No Fun

You don't need stats to see Ramsey is playing VERY good football. Use your eyes. 

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I'm not going to go back and review every game individually again, but as I have said many times I provided the tool that shows you don't get over a 100 passer rating against simply by allowing a lot of short underneath routes at a high %.


We know it's 60% average so let's just keep it simple and say he gave up 3 receptions on 5 targets every game. If that were the case 60 yards per game at an NFL leading 20 ypc (Hogan leads the NFL at 19.2) would get to just barely below Ramsey's 102.4 passer rating. Obviously he wasn't giving up plays like that so maybe it was something like ~35 yards per game and a TD allowed every other game. That averages out to the right passer rating too, but a very high TD rate. And unfortunately the one long busted coverage on Hilton that may or may not have been his fault doesn't skew the total passer rating that much by itself.

He had two bad games at best over the 10 game stretch the rest were either good or very good. Its pretty obvious that he was not below average during that stretch , we can all see that now and so can you.


This thread is a perfect example of why you catch so much stick from people here, myself included.

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KY is trying so hard to be the smartest guy in the room.

 

The funny thing is that KY is just a parrot of edgy twitter users that rely on spider charts and new age metrics. He tries to sound smart but the only thing he can ever really fall back on are the posts that his stealing his opinions from so he has no real ground to stand on unless someone else provides it. 

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Coughlin when asked if winning will be a focus: "What the hell else is there? This is nice and dandy, but winning is what all this is about."

When some tries to use a useless stat like QBR in his evaluation of talent, he will lose. It's a trash stat, just like PFF and collinsworth. Trying to shove that jargon down our throats to promote their way of watching football than using ones eyes to do so.

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You either die as a good poster, or live long enough to become the troll.

Interesting how one can let stats color what your own eyes should be making very clear to you.


I couldn't give a rat's [BAD WORD REMOVED] about "passer rating against" or completion %.


The kid clearly played great for a rookie and better than many starting vets.


No additional qualifiers needed. Watch the damn games. It's plain as day that he wasn't a "below average corner" for any significant length of time of the season. Nothing could be plainer to see.


Twisting up this kid's performance in his rookie year with a bunch of convoluted stats is a classic fool's errand.

Thank you! This is essentially what I've been meaning to post in here. Ramsey has been spectacular in his rookie here. He's had a few mistakes which are expected but overall he has been better than my expectations for him in year 1.


He's got a great combination of size and athleticism. He's going to be special and he already has been. We saw what he's capable of on that pick 6.

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