....he's one of 'em.

 

I figured that, but what's wrong with referring to a particular subset of people as "they"? Even the biggest PR nuts couldn't find harm in that, could they?

 

 

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What's wrong with calling left-wing extremists and though-police "they"?

 

Yeah, it's a lot easier than actually contributing something, isn't it.

 

Typical.

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The sun's not yellow, it's chicken.

....he's one of 'em.

 

Look, I know you are of limited capacity to actually engage in a rational argument. You seem proud of your limitations.

 

So, Carnac, what's the great doomsday that the Rams will face if they cut Sam? Can't think of one, can you?

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The sun's not yellow, it's chicken.

I figured that, but what's wrong with referring to a particular subset of people as "they"? Even the biggest PR nuts couldn't find harm in that, could they?

 

 

 

Only people insecure of their facts and arguments (and perhaps other things) seem to express fear of "thought police".

 

Something I expect of TMD. But you can actually express a coherent thought. So I'll ask you - what's this great calamity that will befall the Rams if Sam is cut? 

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The sun's not yellow, it's chicken.

As others have stated, you must be living under a rock if you have to ask that question. Look no further than the calamity that befall on Dungy for a simple comment he made.

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Look, I know you are of limited capacity to actually engage in a rational argument. You seem proud of your limitations.


So, Carnac, what's the great doomsday that the Rams will face if they cut Sam? Can't think of one, can you?

To think there couldn't be any backlash is a little silly. Look at how people have twisted one simple opinion in this very thread.


I think the amount of backlash probably hinders on when they cut him. There will always be someone to gripe about it but the longer he stays on the team the less "doomsday" we will see.

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Reminds me of 2003 when nobody was allowed to oppose the Iraq War. The Baseball Hall of Fame cancelled a celebration of Bull Duham because of it. That was because of the PC Police, right? Thought police?

 

I'm confused. Are you saying that, because it presumably happened in favor of those that disagree now, both are permissible or that neither are? 

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To think there couldn't be any backlash is a little silly. Look at how people have twisted one simple opinion in this very thread.


I think the amount of backlash probably hinders on when they cut him. There will always be someone to gripe about it but the longer he stays on the team the less "doomsday" we will see.

It is doubtful Sam has any more of a fan base than Tebow.  When Tebow was traded/released, the backlash was far from debilitating for any team that got rid of him.

 

In fact, when he was cut by the Patriots, Tebow fans went out with a soft whimper.

 

Why would the "backlash" be any worse here?

 

For the purposes of this discussion, assume I HAVE been living under a rock.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

It is doubtful Sam has any more of a fan base than Tebow.  When Tebow was traded/released, the backlash was far from debilitating for any team that got rid of him.

 

In fact, when he was cut by the Patriots, Tebow fans went out with a soft whimper.

 

Why would the "backlash" be any worse here?

 

For the purposes of this discussion, assume I HAVE been living under a rock.

 

Possibly my favorite thing anybody has ever said on this board.

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What's wrong with calling left-wing extremists and though-police "they"?

 

You listen to too much talk radio.

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As others have stated, you must be living under a rock if you have to ask that question. Look no further than the calamity that befall on Dungy for a simple comment he made.

 

My problem is with the overreaction - to practically everything. It's like a 13 year old girl making entries in her diary.

 

What "calamity" did Dungy suffer? Did he lose his job? He got some negative press. OMG! As a former head coach I think he's dealt with that before.

 

So is that the "calamity" the Rams have to fear? Some possible negative press that will dissipate in a week or two?

 

And you think I live under a rock? I think you've been hanging out with too many 13 year olds.

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The sun's not yellow, it's chicken.

There will be some public relations fallout if Sam is cut. the severity of that fallout will be determined by how Sam handles it. If he says he was cut because he was just not good enough at his position it will all be good, if he claims it was because of sexuality it will be ugly. Since it wont be able to be proved either way it will be short lived.

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Looking to troll? Don't bother, we supply our own.

 

 

What's wrong with calling left-wing extremists and though-police "they"?

 

It and the two terms you use here are both dehumanizing straw-man caricaturizations of the people you're actually talking to designed to allow you to dismiss their points without having to confront or reconcile your own beliefs against the reality in front of you.

 

Basically when you say things like that you're squawking out your own ignorance and desire to maintain it.

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It is doubtful Sam has any more of a fan base than Tebow.  When Tebow was traded/released, the backlash was far from debilitating for any team that got rid of him.

 

In fact, when he was cut by the Patriots, Tebow fans went out with a soft whimper.

 

Why would the "backlash" be any worse here?

 

For the purposes of this discussion, assume I HAVE been living under a rock.

 

It has nothing to do with the size of Sam's fan base,  It has more to do with the vocal minority who will shred anyone who they perceive to be high profile and anti-gay in any way, shape, or form.  

 

Look at the situation in NY with the Giants hiring David Tyree.  The usual suspects have jumped in front of any camera they can find to shred the Giants for hiring someone who indicated he was against gay marriage 2 years ago.  They get media attention because gay marriage and all things homosexual are considered the cause celeb right now.  It doesn't take thousands of people charging the gates to create a hostile environment.  All it takes is one activist organization to call ESPN or some other outlet to schedule a press conference.  Suddenly it's national news. 

 

There was no "Christian" lobby that was prepared to pounce on anyone who attacked Tebow for his beliefs, or to blast a team that dared to cut him.  It's almost a red herring to use Tebow as a comparison to the Sam situation.  For Tebow, it was about a very loyal group of fans who supported him.  For Sam, it's a bunch of activists who are only intent on using his situation as a way of furthering an agenda.  

 

The gay activists are a small, but very vocal, and very powerful lobby group.  Look at what happened when it was revealed that the new CEO of Mozilla had donated money to the traditional marriage campaign in California years ago.  The activists went after Mozilla, and ended up forcing him to resign.  And for what?  Donating a few bucks to a political campaign? 

 

The hoopla surrounding the 7th round selection of Sam was unprecedented, and it had nothing to do with his football skills.  It had nothing to do with him having a huge national fan base.  It had everything to do with what he represented.  He could be used by activists to push an agenda.  They saw an opportunity for media attention and they jumped on it.  Oprah gave him a reality show. ESPN and the NFL Network fawned over him as if he was a top draft pick.  For what? 

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

To say that Jason Collins is irrelevant in discussing Michael Sam is as ridiculous a comment I have ever read in this boards.

 

There is no other comparison that you can make in Sam's case BUT Collins.

 

You're also contradicting yourself. You claim that Sam was only drafted because he came out, then also state that the Rams see some of the things attached to him as distractions (as Dungy referred to them). If that's the case, then isn't it more likely that coming out ACTUALLY hurt Sam's stock? If him coming out was going to be viewed by teams as a distraction, then isn't it more reason for an athlete NOT to come out?

 

And that's where this comes back to....that's why no prominent athlete has ever come out of the closet...until now.

 

For whatever reason, there's this connotation in doing so. I mean, seriously, pray tell....

 

Why do you automatically assume a negative agenda to Sam coming out? Why can't it be that he just wanted to come out? To tell his story? To inspire kids and teens that it's OK to be open about how you really are?

 

Why does it have to be that "oh he came out. He must be trying to get some special benefit from it"?

I'm not contradicting myself at all.  I'm simply stating an opinion about what I think HIS strategy was for coming out in the way that he did despite the fact that in reality, his preference was already pretty well known.  You disagree with my premise that his intention was to increase his profile, and hopefully in turn, improve his draft stock.  I think that's one of the main reasons he did what he did.  It got him a ton of media attention coming into the draft, and it absolutely was the reason why Oprah decided to cover his every move in a reality show. 

 

The Rams shut down his reality show once he was drafted.  They didn't want Oprah's camera crews creating an even bigger circus around a 7th round pick than they already had.  The revelation that there was a reality show didn't come out until AFTER the draft, so the Rams wouldn't have had a clue before selecting him.  They basically gave up a meaningless draft pick to select a guy who might make their roster as a special teamer.  If he gets cut, just wait to see how the same activists who have used him as their champion turn on the Rams and blame his sexual preference for his release.  You can't deny that there WILL be groups that use that tact. 

 

If you watched the media coverage on the day he was selected, both ESPN and NFLN were running packages talking about what a hero Sam was.  A guy that some of the same talking heads had predicted wouldn't be drafted leading up to that day were suddenly touting him as a must have guy on the final day of the draft.  They were talking about him the entire day until he was finally selected by St. Louis, almost shaming teams for not selecting him. 

 

The media created a circus around Sam being drafted, then lived off that attention for a couple of weeks afterward because of the whole kiss video and photos.  They jammed it down the throats of everyone in America, and if anyone expressed an opinion that it might be considered inappropriate to do so, those people where blasted. 

 

This whole Dungy situation is just the tip of the iceberg here.  He's being hammered in the media for being honest about his opinion, and sticking to his convictions.  Whether you agree with him or not, he does not deserve the heated rhetoric that has been thrown his way by such luminaries as Wilbon and others on sports talk.  Bill Maher referred to a gay mafia that exists, and he was absolutely 100% correct.  They pounce on anyone who they perceive to be homophobic, even if that's not the case at all.  They've started coming after Dungy over his comments which had little to do with Sam's preferences, and everything to do with the distraction caused by the media hype surrounding it.  What he said wasn't homophobic at all, but that didn't stop them from tossing that out there.  Basically, their reaction to his comments is making his point. 

 

Why do I think there was another agenda involved in him coming out?  Maybe that wasn't the intention initially, but someone in his circle probably felt it was an opportunity to capitalize.  Otherwise, you wouldn't have seen a high profile interview on ESPN announcing it, and he wouldn't have had the Oprah planning to do a reality show dedicated to him.  If you don't think there was more at play here than being an inspiration, you're not paying attention to everything that transpired around that declaration. 

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

It is doubtful Sam has any more of a fan base than Tebow.  When Tebow was traded/released, the backlash was far from debilitating for any team that got rid of him.

 

In fact, when he was cut by the Patriots, Tebow fans went out with a soft whimper.

 

Why would the "backlash" be any worse here?

 

For the purposes of this discussion, assume I HAVE been living under a rock.

 

To be fair, when the Patriots cut him it was the third time...what could the fans say?

 

I don't think there will be a big deal if Sam gets cut because he is a marginal player, but there is always a chance something blows up.  Something happened in the locker room he didnt like and it comes out after he's cut.  Thats when things will get ugly for the Rams...if it happens.

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It is doubtful Sam has any more of a fan base than Tebow.  When Tebow was traded/released, the backlash was far from debilitating for any team that got rid of him.

 

In fact, when he was cut by the Patriots, Tebow fans went out with a soft whimper.

 

Why would the "backlash" be any worse here?

 

For the purposes of this discussion, assume I HAVE been living under a rock.

 

What FBT said in the above two posts.

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So to boil this down, your motivation is a fear of curtailment of freedom of expression or repercussions extending therefrom?

 

No.

 

To be clear, I believe teams are entitled to make their own judgments on these matters, consistent with the law, and govern themselves accordingly.

 

I just did not buy Dungy's stated rationale, given his past embrace of distracting players.

 

Way I see it, Dungy may not believe Sam's worth the media attention. I mean, taking on those things is a big enough risk in and of itself, but for a 7th round pick? I can see that as a possible explanation, but I'm not going to rule out his religion playing a part in him not wanting Sam.

 

Either way, I don't think he should have to apologize as if he did something wrong.

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What FBT said in the above two posts.

 

But after all those words, FBT didn't really say anything.

 

Other than expressing his own paranoia about "them" he still hasn't pointed out what "they" will do to the NFL or the Rams.

 

Will "they" get Jeff Fisher fired? Will thousands not renew their Rams season tickets? Will "they" refuse to buy Rams' jerseys?

 

It seems that "they" have convinced you and FBT of their immense power and influence.

 

Some of the rest of us are more skeptical.

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The sun's not yellow, it's chicken.

There will be some public relations fallout if Sam is cut. the severity of that fallout will be determined by how Sam handles it. If he says he was cut because he was just not good enough at his position it will all be good, if he claims it was because of sexuality it will be ugly. Since it wont be able to be proved either way it will be short lived.

 

yeah, as if Sam wouldn't use the "gay" card in that instance...

 

I'd bet that even if HE felt like he was cut because of football reasons, the activist groups would take over and convince him to just go along and cite the gay card for their political agenda. 

 

It has nothing to do with the size of Sam's fan base,  It has more to do with the vocal minority who will shred anyone who they perceive to be high profile and anti-gay in any way, shape, or form.  

 

Look at the situation in NY with the Giants hiring David Tyree.  The usual suspects have jumped in front of any camera they can find to shred the Giants for hiring someone who indicated he was against gay marriage 2 years ago.  They get media attention because gay marriage and all things homosexual are considered the cause celeb right now.  It doesn't take thousands of people charging the gates to create a hostile environment.  All it takes is one activist organization to call ESPN or some other outlet to schedule a press conference.  Suddenly it's national news. 

 

There was no "Christian" lobby that was prepared to pounce on anyone who attacked Tebow for his beliefs, or to blast a team that dared to cut him.  It's almost a red herring to use Tebow as a comparison to the Sam situation.  For Tebow, it was about a very loyal group of fans who supported him.  For Sam, it's a bunch of activists who are only intent on using his situation as a way of furthering an agenda.  

 

The gay activists are a small, but very vocal, and very powerful lobby group.  Look at what happened when it was revealed that the new CEO of Mozilla had donated money to the traditional marriage campaign in California years ago.  The activists went after Mozilla, and ended up forcing him to resign.  And for what?  Donating a few bucks to a political campaign? 

 

The hoopla surrounding the 7th round selection of Sam was unprecedented, and it had nothing to do with his football skills.  It had nothing to do with him having a huge national fan base.  It had everything to do with what he represented.  He could be used by activists to push an agenda.  They saw an opportunity for media attention and they jumped on it.  Oprah gave him a reality show. ESPN and the NFL Network fawned over him as if he was a top draft pick.  For what? 

 

Good post. 

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