I believe you answered yourself

 

As with a lot of things people who are desperate to make this trade seem like a great deal for the Jags say, it hasn't happened yet or is just speculation.

 

What has happened is that we have given away one of our only legit top 10 at his position players for 2 picks which are extremely unlikely to even become long term starters. Until something happens which makes that seem like a good idea comes along, I'm sticking to this being Caldwell's mistake.

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Just to be different, Bortles.

They took the first offer they received for Monroe and that was 4 weeks prior to the deadline. They didn't "get what they could" for him, they took the first low ball offer and ran. In the coming weeks the Steelers and Miami OL situations became dire, and the Jags by waiting a few weeks would have then saw a 3 team bidding war for Monroe. Thats the proper way to have handled it. Not jump at the first "feeler" offer. 

 

You're seriously still on this?  You don't have, have never had, and will never have any proof to back this up.  At best you can point to a tweet from some random "analyst" who says this.  But not only have you not let that stop you, but you've actually managed to stay spun up about this since October? 

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With the depth in this draft and having 98 underclassman we have picked up 2 monster picks. I will take a 4th and a 5th anyday other than say a 3rd.

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Monroe and Ravens are reportedly "far, far apart" on talks.

 

The Jaguars may have made a Patriots-level move by trading him early on last year.

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THERE IS A SKELETON INSIDE OF YOU.

 

RIGHT NOW. THIS IS NOT A JOKE.

Monroe and Ravens are reportedly "far, far apart" on talks.

 

The Jaguars may have made a Patriots-level move by trading him early on last year.

 

....in theory, not execution. 

 

The Pats usually get good deals when they make trades. 

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regardless of what the contract situation is now with Monroe and Baltimore I still don't like the trade. We went from a top 10 LT sure you'd have to pay him to keep him, to an unproven rookie.

 

We took a position of strength and gambled with an unknown. This team has SO many holes to fill what was the point? Was drafting Joeckel all about avoiding paying Monroe then?

 

Drafting Joeckel was supposed to be about having 2 premium tackles going forward, let's not pretend Pasturz is a premium tackle he did a solid job filling in but that just goes to show tacking a tackle at 2 last year was pointless. We could've kept Monroe, still plugged in Pasturz and used that top pick on a position of need, like the pass rush.

 

It's water under the bridge but lets not white wash history, to say the people objecting to the trade where just being "sour" is dishonest, there are real issues to be had with how the Monroe situation was handled.

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....in theory, not execution. 

 

The Pats usually get good deals when they make trades. 

 

At the time of the trades,  they usually look like good deals.  Yet,  the Patriots draft history is spotty,  despite trading for extra picks.   Off the top of my head,  I can think of a number of Defensive Backs that New England drafted in the last 10 years that were busts.    Even the best organizations are far from perfect.

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he didn't make a "great" move here. It would have been a "great move" had he gotten proper value for a top 10, 27 year old OLT, - thats more than a 4th & a 5th. 

 

If Monroe signs elsewhere than Baltimore, yes, it will then look "better" for the Jags, but still not at the level of a "great" move. "Good" move at that point? Ok. 

 

You had him pegged as an average LT before being traded. Since when did you change your mind?

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If we had stayed committed to Monroe and gone DE with our first pick, we could have solved two premium positions for years to come.

 

Now we have no DE and a tackle who failed to impress last year.

 

Maybe Joekel will develop into a top LT over the next 3-4 years. But then we have to trade him for a 4th and a 5th because we fear he may walk in free agency and we continue to allow our best talent to move on like a farm league team.

 

How can you call it a brilliant move by Caldwell to get a 4th and a 5th for Monroe when he created the situation which prevented him from staying in the first place?

 

Great job of putting stitches on that bullet hole you shot in your own foot.

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You had him pegged as an average LT before being traded. Since when did you change your mind?

 

We already know the answer

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If we had stayed committed to Monroe and gone DE with our first pick, we could have solved two premium positions for years to come.

 

Now we have no DE and a tackle who failed to impress last year.

 

Maybe Joekel will develop into a top LT over the next 3-4 years. But then we have to trade him for a 4th and a 5th because we fear he may walk in free agency and we continue to allow our best talent to move on like a farm league team.

 

How can you call it a brilliant move by Caldwell to get a 4th and a 5th for Monroe when he created the situation which prevented him from staying in the first place?

 

Great job of putting stitches on that bullet hole you shot in your own foot.

 

I can't say I ever felt like losing Monroe was a bullet hole...maybe a deep scratch.  It's possible the coaches said "Hey look, Joeckel is going to be great at LT and this guy Paztor is going to lock down RT for awhile."

 

So, Caldwell felt out Monroe and thought he'd want too much money to resign when have a superior LT on the roster already.

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If we had stayed committed to Monroe and gone DE with our first pick, we could have solved two premium positions for years to come.

 

Now we have no DE and a tackle who failed to impress last year.

 

Maybe Joekel will develop into a top LT over the next 3-4 years. But then we have to trade him for a 4th and a 5th because we fear he may walk in free agency and we continue to allow our best talent to move on like a farm league team.

 

How can you call it a brilliant move by Caldwell to get a 4th and a 5th for Monroe when he created the situation which prevented him from staying in the first place?

 

Great job of putting stitches on that bullet hole you shot in your own foot.

 

This is perfectly said.  When we picked Luke at 2 there was zero chance that Monroe would stay.

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This is perfectly said.  When we picked Luke at 2 there was zero chance that Monroe would stay.

 

And if he had not picked Luke at 2, what was the precise chance that Monroe would stay?  I can't help but notice that he seems pretty insistent on testing FA where he is right now.  Wouldn't we all be talking about what a mess Caldwell made if he'd not drafted Luke (the supposed best player for you BAP guys) and then Monroe still insisted on testing FA and leaves anyway?

 

This is the lunacy of these things.  People with no possible way to know what happened, or what might have happened, talk as if they have access to perfect clarity on the entire thing.

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If we had stayed committed to Monroe and gone DE with our first pick, we could have solved two premium positions for years to come.

 

Now we have no DE and a tackle who failed to impress last year.

 

Maybe Joekel will develop into a top LT over the next 3-4 years. But then we have to trade him for a 4th and a 5th because we fear he may walk in free agency and we continue to allow our best talent to move on like a farm league team.

 

How can you call it a brilliant move by Caldwell to get a 4th and a 5th for Monroe when he created the situation which prevented him from staying in the first place?

 

Great job of putting stitches on that bullet hole you shot in your own foot.

 

Monroe was not in the team's long term plans. This is not that complicated. The team felt like Joeckel was the best player in last year's draft and Monroe was expendable. The way Pasztor played at RT, it seems like the team knew what they had and got the extra picks rather than letting him leave for nothing.

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And if he had not picked Luke at 2, what was the precise chance that Monroe would stay?  I can't help but notice that he seems pretty insistent on testing FA where he is right now.  Wouldn't we all be talking about what a mess Caldwell made if he'd not drafted Luke (the supposed best player for you BAP guys) and then Monroe still insisted on testing FA and leaves anyway?

 

This is the lunacy of these things.  People with no possible way to know what happened, or what might have happened, talk as if they have access to perfect clarity on the entire thing.

It was pretty clear at the time of the pick that it would cause us to loose Monroe without being able to recoup his full value considering he was in a contract year so he wouldn't get much for him in trade. Basically, Caldwell bought high and sold low. Not a smart way to do business in a financial or a labor market. A lot of people were pointing this out then, not in hindsight. Hindsight has just corroborated it.

 

Unless Caldwell strikes gold with the 4th and 5th rd picks, this will not be remembered as a very good series of moves.

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It was pretty clear at the time of the pick that it would cause us to loose Monroe without being able to recoup his full value considering he was in a contract year so he wouldn't get much for him in trade. Basically, Caldwell bought high and sold low. Not a smart way to do business in a financial or a labor market. A lot of people were pointing this out then, not in hindsight. Hindsight has just corroborated it.

 

Unless Caldwell strikes gold with the 4th and 5th rd picks, this will not be remembered as a very good series of moves.

 

I see you, TMD and others bring this up but nobody can ever tell us what his "full value" is/was or what examples you have to back it up. 

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It was pretty clear at the time of the pick that it would cause us to loose Monroe without being able to recoup his full value considering he was in a contract year so he wouldn't get much for him in trade. Basically, Caldwell bought high and sold low. Not a smart way to do business in a financial or a labor market. A lot of people were pointing this out then, not in hindsight. Hindsight has just corroborated it.

 

Unless Caldwell strikes gold with the 4th and 5th rd picks, this will not be remembered as a very good series of moves.

 

So, for my very simple question, you really don't have an answer?  You specifically stated that taking Luke reduced our chances of retaining Monroe to zero.  What was the chance we retained him if we didn't take Luke? 

 

You have no idea.  You can't possibly know.  And if this had worked out that he took someone else, then Monroe does exactly what he's doing right now, decides he wants to test FA and walks, then what?  Now you guys would be crucifying Caldwell because we'd be talking about needing a LT at 1.3 and have no option to even look at <insert your favorite QB here>.

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Basically, Caldwell bought high and sold low. Not a smart way to do business in a financial or a labor market. A lot of people were pointing this out then, not in hindsight. Hindsight has just corroborated it.

 

Sorry, it doesn't work in the examples you are trying to use.

 

He didn't buy high and sell low. Because he didn't "buy" Monroe. He inherited him. The team was not going to pay him 10 million a year and actually got picks for him instead of letting him leave for nothing.

 

He bought high on Joeckel because he used the second pick in the draft on him. That's his guy and a building block for this team.

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Monroe was not in the team's long term plans. This is not that complicated. The team felt like Joeckel was the best player in last year's draft and Monroe was expendable. The way Pasztor played at RT, it seems like the team knew what they had and got the extra picks rather than letting him leave for nothing.

Monroe was out of the long term plans once Caldwell practiced redundant drafting. He basically netted the equivalent of swapping the number two overall pick for a 4th and a 5th rd pick, and that is only if Joekel develops into the same caliber of player as Monroe which has yet to be seen.

 

So far the best players in the top of the draft look like the DEs that he passed up on.

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I see you, TMD and others bring this up but nobody can ever tell us what his "full value" is/was or what examples you have to back it up. 

If you go to court and a judge has to determine the value of something they use the replacement value, which in our case was the number 2 overall pick.

 

Obviously we could never recoup that for Monroe especially considering he was in a contract year. That is what made this set of moves such a poor choice by Caldwell.

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