Lol, Coughlin, if we continue to accept the quitter's vague explanation, didn't run down on the field and pull him off by his ear. He met with him at some time (when is still uncertain) to tell him to knock it off. You are making excuses for the player's childish behavior. Based on what we saw on the sideline the player should've been suspended, but the FO went easy on him, a mistake that only emboldened the diva behavior.

Why is it so hard for people to just say Ramsey have Coughlin have both been out of line during their tenures here? Other than nostalgia I see no reason to defend Coughlin either. Both of them need/needed to go.

Both were wrong, but Coughlin gets mulligans when he makes mistakes to some fans of this team.  If you don't choose a side and call it like it is, you're making excuses for Ramsey apparently.  I could've sworn the trade rumors came the very next day but i see flsports whatever said he doesnt know when it happened.  I guess some have selective hearing or just ignore the facts that don't support their opinion.

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Season Tix, Section 409

2023 and still counting.....SB will finally be ours soon enough.
TLaw aka 'the prince that was promised' supporter.

You and some others keep saying that reprimanding a player is beyond the scope of his duties. You’re asserting facts that are not in evidence.  He is the football czar. Other than the owner, he is at the top of the chain of command. He is within his authority to do what he did. You may not like that fact or you may think that it was counterproductive. But he was not wrong. So would you need to understand that occasionally in life it’s not both people were wrong it’s one person was wrong. And Ramsey was that person.



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I don't care how high up in the organization you are, reprimanding a player is for the head coach to do. For someone above the HC to do the reprimanding makes the HC look weak.  Reprimanding him immediately after a loss in which he had an emotional meltdown is pure malpractice.  This is people management 101.   

This is why I am saying we don't need this kind of EVP.  If you like TC, make him the HC or make him the GM.  Setting up a 3rd position above those 2 is a mistake.

Then Khan should fire TC, obviously... since Khan gave him the keys and he is apparently going beyond his scope of duties?
Or Khan is okay with how TC has handled things, since it is what Khan wanted him to do.

Khan was in on the meeting.

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He got reprimanded by the league office for publicly calling out players not attending voluntary workouts. And we know enough of the story to say that him chewing out Ramsey in the locker room was beyond the scope of his duties as well. The locker room is Marrone's and Coughlin stepped over the line.

You and some others keep saying that reprimanding a player is beyond the scope of his duties. You’re asserting facts that are not in evidence. He is the football czar. Other than the owner, he is at the top of the chain of command. He is within his authority to do what he did. You may not like that fact or you may think that it was counterproductive. But he was not wrong. So would you need to understand that occasionally in life it’s not both people were wrong it’s one person was wrong. And Ramsey was that person.



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Doing it in the locker room in front of the whole team was the problem. That's Marrone's turf. Coughlin doing what he did was castrating Marrone just as much as it was Ramsey. And we've seen Marrone show exasperation with the situation recently in his presser too.

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Because there's no credible evidence that Coughlin did anything out of line, meanwhile, the quitter gave us more than enough documented proof of his misdeeds.

He got reprimanded by the league office for publicly calling out players not attending voluntary workouts. And we know enough of the story to say that him chewing out Ramsey in the locker room was beyond the scope of his duties as well. The locker room is Marrone's and Coughlin stepped over the line.

Oh boo hoo. Everything in "Football Operations" belongs to Coughlin. It's in his damn title for pete's sake.

Wait a minute, you said it was in the locker room? I thought it was in a super secret meeting room that only 4 people were in at the time? How can this conflicting information be presented so that it puts your favored party into a better light? By exaggeration, what the quitter was the very best at delivering and some here are great at receiving.

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You and some others keep saying that reprimanding a player is beyond the scope of his duties. You’re asserting facts that are not in evidence.  He is the football czar. Other than the owner, he is at the top of the chain of command. He is within his authority to do what he did. You may not like that fact or you may think that it was counterproductive. But he was not wrong. So would you need to understand that occasionally in life it’s not both people were wrong it’s one person was wrong. And Ramsey was that person.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Doing it in the locker room in front of the whole team was the problem. That's Marrone's turf. Coughlin doing what he did was castrating Marrone just as much as it was Ramsey. And we've seen Marrone show exasperation with the situation recently in his presser too.

There you go again.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

You and some others keep saying that reprimanding a player is beyond the scope of his duties. You’re asserting facts that are not in evidence.  He is the football czar. Other than the owner, he is at the top of the chain of command. He is within his authority to do what he did. You may not like that fact or you may think that it was counterproductive. But he was not wrong. So would you need to understand that occasionally in life it’s not both people were wrong it’s one person was wrong. And Ramsey was that person.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Doing it in the locker room in front of the whole team was the problem. That's Marrone's turf. Coughlin doing what he did was castrating Marrone just as much as it was Ramsey. And we've seen Marrone show exasperation with the situation recently in his presser too.

Wait a minute, didn't Ramsey say in that interview that it happened in a room with he and four others, not in the locker room?

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You and some others keep saying that reprimanding a player is beyond the scope of his duties. You’re asserting facts that are not in evidence.  He is the football czar. Other than the owner, he is at the top of the chain of command. He is within his authority to do what he did. You may not like that fact or you may think that it was counterproductive. But he was not wrong. So would you need to understand that occasionally in life it’s not both people were wrong it’s one person was wrong. And Ramsey was that person.



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I don't care how high up in the organization you are, reprimanding a player is for the head coach to do. For someone above the HC to do the reprimanding makes the HC look weak.  Reprimanding him immediately after a loss in which he had an emotional meltdown is pure malpractice.  This is people management 101.   

This is why I am saying we don't need this kind of EVP.  If you like TC, make him the HC or make him the GM.  Setting up a 3rd position above those 2 is a mistake.

Bull, the minute the quitter made it physical it elevated beyond those directly involved. (See, I can spout opinion as fact too!)

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

He got reprimanded by the league office for publicly calling out players not attending voluntary workouts. And we know enough of the story to say that him chewing out Ramsey in the locker room was beyond the scope of his duties as well. The locker room is Marrone's and Coughlin stepped over the line.

Oh boo hoo. Everything in "Football Operations" belongs to Coughlin. It's in his damn title for pete's sake.

Wait a minute, you said it was in the locker room? I thought it was in a super secret meeting room that only 4 people were in at the time? How can this conflicting information be presented so that it puts your favored party into a better light? By exaggeration, what the quitter was the very best at delivering and some here are great at receiving.

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Doing it in the locker room in front of the whole team was the problem. That's Marrone's turf. Coughlin doing what he did was castrating Marrone just as much as it was Ramsey. And we've seen Marrone show exasperation with the situation recently in his presser too.

There you go again.

That was a different and obviously more formal meeting. I'm talking about directly following the Texans game when it was widely reported that Coughlin chewed him out in the locker room post game.

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Oh boo hoo. Everything in "Football Operations" belongs to Coughlin. It's in his damn title for pete's sake.

Wait a minute, you said it was in the locker room? I thought it was in a super secret meeting room that only 4 people were in at the time? How can this conflicting information be presented so that it puts your favored party into a better light? By exaggeration, what the quitter was the very best at delivering and some here are great at receiving.

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There you go again.

That was a different and obviously more formal meeting. I'm talking about directly following the Texans game when it was widely reported that Coughlin chewed him out in the locker room post game.

Sounds like hearsay by the quitter's camp. Now we're up to two meetings where Coughlin attacked the poor innocent little cornerback.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

That was a different and obviously more formal meeting. I'm talking about directly following the Texans game when it was widely reported that Coughlin chewed him out in the locker room post game.

Sounds like hearsay by the quitter's camp.

Vito and Frenette both confirmed it.

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That was a different and obviously more formal meeting. I'm talking about directly following the Texans game when it was widely reported that Coughlin chewed him out in the locker room post game.

Sounds like hearsay by the quitter's camp. Now we're up to two meetings where Coughlin attacked the poor innocent little cornerback.

I don't have as big of a problem with the behind closed doors meeting. That's the proper avenue to do it. It sounds like it was set up to be an intimidation tactic more than an actual peace offering meeting as it was portrayed to be, but at least the setting was right.

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Sounds like hearsay by the quitter's camp.

Vito and Frenette both confirmed it.

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They tweeted in relative support of the source.  They didn't confirm exactly how or where it happened.  If Ramsey, a FIRST PERSON, participant says otherwise, I think you may need to consider that. 

Regardless, we absolutely can't be certain that Ramsey received a public admonishment from Coughlin at this point.
(Even if he deserved one)
And remember, I'm no Coughlin fan. I throw a very suspicious eye his way regularly.

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Vito and Frenette both confirmed it.

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They tweeted in relative support of the source.  They didn't confirm exactly how or where it happened.  If Ramsey, a FIRST PERSON, participant says otherwise, I think you may need to consider that. 

Regardless, we absolutely can't be certain that Ramsey received a public admonishment from Coughlin at this point.
(Even if he deserved one)

After watching Ramsey's interview (fully intent on yelling at him through my TV) I realized... yeah, how he said it went down makes perfect sense knowing TC's history
It started with the tweets about voluntary offseason work outs. Then in detail described how the meeting went down, without saying specifically what was said.
And I believed him.

I still think he went about his business the wrong way.
But it is what it is

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Sounds like hearsay by the quitter's camp.

Vito and Frenette both confirmed it.

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Sounds like hearsay by the quitter's camp. Now we're up to two meetings where Coughlin attacked the poor innocent little cornerback.

I don't have as big of a problem with the behind closed doors meeting. That's the proper avenue to do it. It sounds like it was set up to be an intimidation tactic more than an actual peace offering meeting as it was portrayed to be, but at least the setting was right.

I think the circumstances of the sideline confrontation warranted exactly the response everyone assumes happened; I would've been fine with Coughlin suspending him on the spot and telling him to get his own ride home. The rest of what played out from that moment was poor little quitter's feelings being emoted all over the air for the public to see and if I were Coughlin I would've suspended him for that bull [BLEEP] too.

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Vito and Frenette both confirmed it.

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They tweeted in relative support of the source.  They didn't confirm exactly how or where it happened.  If Ramsey, a FIRST PERSON, participant says otherwise, I think you may need to consider that. 

Regardless, we absolutely can't be certain that Ramsey received a public admonishment from Coughlin at this point.
(Even if he deserved one)
And remember, I'm no Coughlin fan.  I throw a very suspicious eye his way regularly.

Frenette also specifically wrote that this whole situation was because 20 was coddled and the FO should've punished him for the initial incident. Turns out Coughlin went soft on him and that just made it worse.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

That was a different and obviously more formal meeting. I'm talking about directly following the Texans game when it was widely reported that Coughlin chewed him out in the locker room post game.

Sounds like hearsay by the quitter's camp. Now we're up to two meetings where Coughlin attacked the poor innocent little cornerback.

I see someone's just pro coughlin regardless of facts.  Did he autograph your memorabilia before?

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Season Tix, Section 409

2023 and still counting.....SB will finally be ours soon enough.
TLaw aka 'the prince that was promised' supporter.

Sounds like hearsay by the quitter's camp. Now we're up to two meetings where Coughlin attacked the poor innocent little cornerback.

I see someone's just pro coughlin regardless of facts.  Did he autograph your memorabilia before?

You are calling tweets by third party "sources" with a severe lack of detail "facts."  

Might want to rethink that. And whatever you do, do not call me pro-coughlin. I'm not, but I am pro-FACTS.

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I see someone's just pro coughlin regardless of facts.  Did he autograph your memorabilia before?

You are calling tweets by third party "sources" with a severe lack of detail "facts."  

Might want to rethink that. And whatever you do, do not call me pro-coughlin. I'm not, but I am pro-FACTS.

Still the riding the 'facts' train eh?

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Sounds like hearsay by the quitter's camp. Now we're up to two meetings where Coughlin attacked the poor innocent little cornerback.

I see someone's just pro coughlin regardless of facts.  Did he autograph your memorabilia before?

I see someone remains anti-Jaguars no matter the situation.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

You and some others keep saying that reprimanding a player is beyond the scope of his duties. You’re asserting facts that are not in evidence.  He is the football czar. Other than the owner, he is at the top of the chain of command. He is within his authority to do what he did. You may not like that fact or you may think that it was counterproductive. But he was not wrong. So would you need to understand that occasionally in life it’s not both people were wrong it’s one person was wrong. And Ramsey was that person.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't care how high up in the organization you are, reprimanding a player is for the head coach to do. For someone above the HC to do the reprimanding makes the HC look weak.  Reprimanding him immediately after a loss in which he had an emotional meltdown is pure malpractice.  This is people management 101.   

This is why I am saying we don't need this kind of EVP.  If you like TC, make him the HC or make him the GM.  Setting up a 3rd position above those 2 is a mistake.

This is arguably true except in the case where the HC is the one the player is fighting with. In that case it's 100% in the domain of the VP in charge of Football Operations to get involved. What Ramsey did was unacceptable. You have to set limits on the behavior of the players or discipline breaks down completely.

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I'm condescending. That means I talk down to you.

Bump

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"Before you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry, he's a mile away and barefoot."

Let's embrace nepotism everyone!

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A True Fan ladies and gentlemen:

Ramsey for Grier straight up

I don't care how high up in the organization you are, reprimanding a player is for the head coach to do. For someone above the HC to do the reprimanding makes the HC look weak.  Reprimanding him immediately after a loss in which he had an emotional meltdown is pure malpractice.  This is people management 101.   

This is why I am saying we don't need this kind of EVP.  If you like TC, make him the HC or make him the GM.  Setting up a 3rd position above those 2 is a mistake.

This is arguably true except in the case where the HC is the one the player is fighting with. In that case it's 100% in the domain of the VP in charge of Football Operations to get involved. What Ramsey did was unacceptable. You have to set limits on the behavior of the players or discipline breaks down completely.

So Mom is fighting with Sonny and she says, "Wait til Dad gets home.  He'll tan your hide."  No, that is weak.  That makes the HC look like he is unable to enforce discipline on the players.  It puts the player on the same level as the HC.  If the player is fighting with the HC, the HC needs to exercise his authority and handle it.  Otherwise, he has no authority.  

The team should be run by the HC and the GM.  The EVP of Football should stay out of things except to observe and report to the owner.

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