Ah yes. 1 game takes away the previous 16 where he torched people.

Manning was 0-3 to start his playoff career. Same with Brees. 

Does Lamar have things to work on? For sure. But he's 23 years old and it wasn't just him on Saturday, it was the whole team. Drops, OLine play (which had been stellar all year), defensive miscues and just poor execution all around.

Manning and Brees are not really valid comparisons.  Both are pocket passers.  

I'm not saying that Saturday was any indication of his future and I'm not taking anything away from his fantastic year.  But he didn't look very good when he was forced to play in the pocket and pass only.   

This is my concern with any run centric quarterback.  Historically, they haven't been very good when the run is taken away as a weapon.  

As I've said many times...we'll see how it plays out over the next few years.

He still had 143 yards on the ground.  He wasn't necessarily forced to stay in the pocket.  However, he was forced to the sideline rather than running vertically.  Honestly, I think Roman botched that game.  They went for the kill shot too many times in a 14-6 Ball game.  I didn't understand it.  The play calling did not mirror the play calling that got them there.  With that said, I do think they will need a player that can win on the perimeter because that defensive alignment deployed by the Bills and then the Titans gives the offense that.  They are going to need a player that can win 1 v 1 on the outside.  It'll solve some of the problems they had offensively in that game.  It won't solve them just getting beat up front though.  They got beat up front on both sides of the ball.

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Manning and Brees are not really valid comparisons.  Both are pocket passers.  

I'm not saying that Saturday was any indication of his future and I'm not taking anything away from his fantastic year.  But he didn't look very good when he was forced to play in the pocket and pass only.   

This is my concern with any run centric quarterback.  Historically, they haven't been very good when the run is taken away as a weapon.  

As I've said many times...we'll see how it plays out over the next few years.

The comparison is valid because if we are judging QBs solely on their playoff experience and not their full season, let's at least be fair.

And Jackson didn't look good but I also think that was a team as a whole. They got down and the whole team was shook. Chiefs got down 24-0 and their team didn't stop fighting. I think the game was just so weird for the Ravens and they never recovered.

And Mahomes is primarily a pocket passer, and will run when necessary.  He's used to being in the pocket.  Jackson running is a very large, and planned, part of the Ravens offense.

And yes, they got down.  Which resulted in a huge problem because they were used to playing with a lead.  He didn't look good in the games where they got behind during the year.

Needs to handle that better.

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*bump*

Take away the run and then what?
Dude had a helluva season... but didn't look great when it mattered.

12 points.
52% comp
1 TD 2 INTs
63 Rating

Ah yes. 1 game takes away the previous 16 where he torched people.

Manning was 0-3 to start his playoff career. Same with Brees. 

Does Lamar have things to work on? For sure. But he's 23 years old and it wasn't just him on Saturday, it was the whole team. Drops, OLine play (which had been stellar all year), defensive miscues and just poor execution all around.

No one is taking away the fact that he ran all over teams all year. But a team showed up and took away that part of the game and the whole team faltered. And Jackson was off target and the offense sputtered.
They didn't just lose, they looked bad. That was the point many people made all year (what if and when the threat of the running QB is taken away, then what)
Which was dismissed as "haters"

Think next year more people don't put on the tack tape to attack Jackson if he doesn't evolve his game?

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The bad thing for Jackson is he has Joe Burrow coming into the division

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The bad thing for Jackson is he has Joe Burrow coming into the division

The good thing though is that Mayfield may not be the answer in Cleveland & Roethlisberger can only play for how much longer in Pittsburgh? 

Jackson was exposed in that match up with the tacks. There was a lot of bend but don't break scheming going on. They were letting him run. Just not north and south as much as he would like. They kept him moving east and west and forced him to eye the sideline more often than not. 

They'll have to keep working on other ways to use his legs outside of just running up and down the field. Get more creative in the pocket with his ability to buy time, etc. 

I hope he bounces back in 2020 with a stronger play off run and performance. I like the kid. 

It'll be fun seeing him and Burrow go toe to toe twice a year. Granted, Burrow has to show that he can do it for the Bengals with Zac Taylor as his headcoach.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

The comparison is valid because if we are judging QBs solely on their playoff experience and not their full season, let's at least be fair.

And Jackson didn't look good but I also think that was a team as a whole. They got down and the whole team was shook. Chiefs got down 24-0 and their team didn't stop fighting. I think the game was just so weird for the Ravens and they never recovered.

And Mahomes is primarily a pocket passer, and will run when necessary.  He's used to being in the pocket.  Jackson running is a very large, and planned, part of the Ravens offense.

And yes, they got down.  Which resulted in a huge problem because they were used to playing with a lead.  He didn't look good in the games where they got behind during the year.

Needs to handle that better.

Lamar was one of the most effective passers from the pocket this year. Great vs pressure too.

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And Mahomes is primarily a pocket passer, and will run when necessary.  He's used to being in the pocket.  Jackson running is a very large, and planned, part of the Ravens offense.

And yes, they got down.  Which resulted in a huge problem because they were used to playing with a lead.  He didn't look good in the games where they got behind during the year.

Needs to handle that better.

Lamar was one of the most effective passers from the pocket this year. Great vs pressure too.

Yeah, he looked great on Saturday.

And so what.  Good God.  He still has the threat of the run.  If and/or when he no longer has that are part of his arsenal, how will he fare when teams don't have to worry about it?  You don't think that defenses rush him differently now because of that?

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Lamar was one of the most effective passers from the pocket this year. Great vs pressure too.

Yeah, he looked great on Saturday.

And so what.  Good God.  He still has the threat of the run.  If and/or when he no longer has that are part of his arsenal, how will he fare when teams don't have to worry about it?  You don't think that defenses rush him differently now because of that?

That's why we don't overreact to one game samples. He led the NFL in performance Vs pressure and in a pure a pocket setting.  

I've seen people say this a lot but when is he going to be immobile to the point of him not being able to run? You can tear multiple acls and ligaments in your knees and still be very mobile, or are you saying how will he be mobile after a career ending injury which would ruin most careers

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Yeah, he looked great on Saturday.

And so what.  Good God.  He still has the threat of the run.  If and/or when he no longer has that are part of his arsenal, how will he fare when teams don't have to worry about it?  You don't think that defenses rush him differently now because of that?

That's why we don't overreact to one game samples. He led the NFL in performance Vs pressure and in a pure a pocket setting.  

I've seen people say this a lot but when is he going to be immobile to the point of him not being able to run? You can tear multiple acls and ligaments in your knees and still be very mobile, or are you saying how will he be mobile after a career ending injury which would ruin most careers

Game planning and scheming, not just injury, can limit his effectiveness. As evidenced in the playoff game.
Much like when teams decided to play Minshew in such a way to keep him in the pocket and unable to improvise.

If teams take away the threat of Jackson running, they can play differently on defense as a whole.
And thus forcing him into mistakes, off target throws, and limiting the ability to get up early, and then the team isn't as effective. 

The question isn't about what he's done... it's about what will he do to hone his craft so that he can make teams pay without the threat of the option run crap they've been running.
The wildcat worked wonders for a season and then was figured out. The RPO stuff is getting figured out too. It always comes back to the best offense is a traditional style, imo. Having a mobile QB is great for when protection breaks down, on roll outs and bootlegs, etc... But having an offense tailored to your QB keeping the ball and running with it will not last. Jackson was great from the pocket under pressure this year because of the threat of the tuck and run, the juke out of the shoes, the "circle button, square button" junk.

It won't last. It never does. Injury... scheme... either way.
If he doesn't evolve his game and rely more on passing and less on running 2019 and 2020 will likely be his apex....

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Ah yes. 1 game takes away the previous 16 where he torched people.

Manning was 0-3 to start his playoff career. Same with Brees. 

Does Lamar have things to work on? For sure. But he's 23 years old and it wasn't just him on Saturday, it was the whole team. Drops, OLine play (which had been stellar all year), defensive miscues and just poor execution all around.

Manning and Brees are not really valid comparisons.  Both are pocket passers.  

I'm not saying that Saturday was any indication of his future and I'm not taking anything away from his fantastic year.  But he didn't look very good when he was forced to play in the pocket and pass only.   

This is my concern with any run centric quarterback.  Historically, they haven't been very good when the run is taken away as a weapon.  

As I've said many times...we'll see how it plays out over the next few years.

All I could think of during the game was Vince Young....for ages, all Vic thumped was "make him be a passer". The tacks did just that to Lamar, and it worked.

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That's why we don't overreact to one game samples. He led the NFL in performance Vs pressure and in a pure a pocket setting.  

I've seen people say this a lot but when is he going to be immobile to the point of him not being able to run? You can tear multiple acls and ligaments in your knees and still be very mobile, or are you saying how will he be mobile after a career ending injury which would ruin most careers

Game planning and scheming, not just injury, can limit his effectiveness. As evidenced in the playoff game.
Much like when teams decided to play Minshew in such a way to keep him in the pocket and unable to improvise.

If teams take away the threat of Jackson running, they can play differently on defense as a whole.
And thus forcing him into mistakes, off target throws, and limiting the ability to get up early, and then the team isn't as effective. 

The question isn't about what he's done... it's about what will he do to hone his craft so that he can make teams pay without the threat of the option run crap they've been running.
The wildcat worked wonders for a season and then was figured out. The RPO stuff is getting figured out too. It always comes back to the best offense is a traditional style, imo. Having a mobile QB is great for when protection breaks down, on roll outs and bootlegs, etc... But having an offense tailored to your QB keeping the ball and running with it will not last. Jackson was great from the pocket under pressure this year because of the threat of the tuck and run, the juke out of the shoes, the "circle button, square button" junk.

It won't last. It never does. Injury... scheme... either way.
If he doesn't evolve his game and rely more on passing and less on running 2019 and 2020 will likely be his apex....

I think we haven't even seen the peak of Lamar yet given this was his 2nd year and only had a really good TE and rookie WR. I do absolutely agree that the ravens need to develop the passing aspect of their offense but what we saw this year was Lamar as a great pocket passer for the most part and they are retaining their super smart OC. 

Also his performance under pressure is solely passes under pressure, not his runs. And the vast majority of his passes came from inside the pocket, I think all of his TDs actually came from inside the pocket too. 

The difference in the wildcat and Lamar is that Lamar has given a near unprecedented level of passing efficiency at age 22 and it led to an MVP. The wildcat was nothing more than a schematic fad

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Manning and Brees are not really valid comparisons.  Both are pocket passers.  

I'm not saying that Saturday was any indication of his future and I'm not taking anything away from his fantastic year.  But he didn't look very good when he was forced to play in the pocket and pass only.   

This is my concern with any run centric quarterback.  Historically, they haven't been very good when the run is taken away as a weapon.  

As I've said many times...we'll see how it plays out over the next few years.

All I could think of during the game was Vince Young....for ages, all Vic thumped was "make him be a passer". The tacks did just that to Lamar, and it worked.

Well good thing Young and Lamar are nothing alike.

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Game planning and scheming, not just injury, can limit his effectiveness. As evidenced in the playoff game.
Much like when teams decided to play Minshew in such a way to keep him in the pocket and unable to improvise.

If teams take away the threat of Jackson running, they can play differently on defense as a whole.
And thus forcing him into mistakes, off target throws, and limiting the ability to get up early, and then the team isn't as effective. 

The question isn't about what he's done... it's about what will he do to hone his craft so that he can make teams pay without the threat of the option run crap they've been running.
The wildcat worked wonders for a season and then was figured out. The RPO stuff is getting figured out too. It always comes back to the best offense is a traditional style, imo. Having a mobile QB is great for when protection breaks down, on roll outs and bootlegs, etc... But having an offense tailored to your QB keeping the ball and running with it will not last. Jackson was great from the pocket under pressure this year because of the threat of the tuck and run, the juke out of the shoes, the "circle button, square button" junk.

It won't last. It never does. Injury... scheme... either way.
If he doesn't evolve his game and rely more on passing and less on running 2019 and 2020 will likely be his apex....

I think we haven't even seen the peak of Lamar yet given this was his 2nd year and only had a really good TE and rookie WR. I do absolutely agree that the ravens need to develop the passing aspect of their offense but what we saw this year was Lamar as a great pocket passer for the most part and they are retaining their super smart OC. 

Also his performance under pressure is solely passes under pressure, not his runs. And the vast majority of his passes came from inside the pocket, I think all of his TDs actually came from inside the pocket too. 

The difference in the wildcat and Lamar is that Lamar has given a near unprecedented level of passing efficiency at age 22 and it led to an MVP. The wildcat was nothing more than a schematic fad

Not to diminish Lamar and his year in any way, it is worth noting that he had good passing numbers because of the run threat he poses.  It gives him bigger passing lanes and provides more favorable coverage for his receivers.  I think this game he just had is not an outlier unless he progresses as a pocket passer this off-season.

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Fix the O-Line!

I think we haven't even seen the peak of Lamar yet given this was his 2nd year and only had a really good TE and rookie WR. I do absolutely agree that the ravens need to develop the passing aspect of their offense but what we saw this year was Lamar as a great pocket passer for the most part and they are retaining their super smart OC. 

Also his performance under pressure is solely passes under pressure, not his runs. And the vast majority of his passes came from inside the pocket, I think all of his TDs actually came from inside the pocket too. 

The difference in the wildcat and Lamar is that Lamar has given a near unprecedented level of passing efficiency at age 22 and it led to an MVP. The wildcat was nothing more than a schematic fad

Not to diminish Lamar and his year in any way, it is worth noting that he had good passing numbers because of the run threat he poses.  It gives him bigger passing lanes and provides more favorable coverage for his receivers.  I think this game he just had is not an outlier unless he progresses as a pocket passer this off-season.

But that's exactly why he's so valuable. The Ravens were average in tight window passing , so it's not like he was just throwing to open guys every play. 

Defensive coordinators would waaaay prefer to gameplan for a Matt Ryan than a Lamar. Lamar is already a well above average pocket passer based on everything we've seen

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Game planning and scheming, not just injury, can limit his effectiveness. As evidenced in the playoff game.
Much like when teams decided to play Minshew in such a way to keep him in the pocket and unable to improvise.

If teams take away the threat of Jackson running, they can play differently on defense as a whole.
And thus forcing him into mistakes, off target throws, and limiting the ability to get up early, and then the team isn't as effective. 

The question isn't about what he's done... it's about what will he do to hone his craft so that he can make teams pay without the threat of the option run crap they've been running.
The wildcat worked wonders for a season and then was figured out. The RPO stuff is getting figured out too. It always comes back to the best offense is a traditional style, imo. Having a mobile QB is great for when protection breaks down, on roll outs and bootlegs, etc... But having an offense tailored to your QB keeping the ball and running with it will not last. Jackson was great from the pocket under pressure this year because of the threat of the tuck and run, the juke out of the shoes, the "circle button, square button" junk.

It won't last. It never does. Injury... scheme... either way.
If he doesn't evolve his game and rely more on passing and less on running 2019 and 2020 will likely be his apex....

I think we haven't even seen the peak of Lamar yet given this was his 2nd year and only had a really good TE and rookie WR. I do absolutely agree that the ravens need to develop the passing aspect of their offense but what we saw this year was Lamar as a great pocket passer for the most part and they are retaining their super smart OC. 

Also his performance under pressure is solely passes under pressure, not his runs. And the vast majority of his passes came from inside the pocket, I think all of his TDs actually came from inside the pocket too. 

The difference in the wildcat and Lamar is that Lamar has given a near unprecedented level of passing efficiency at age 22 and it led to an MVP. The wildcat was nothing more than a schematic fad

Not sure what this is supposed to mean.  Dont act like Lamar had to do most by himself with no help.  He had 5 other pro bowlers on offense and that rookie receiver was one of the best WRs to come out last year and a 1st round pick.  That team had 12 pro bowlers and set the Pro Bowl record.  Lamar had a really good season but that team is stacked with talent.

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I think we haven't even seen the peak of Lamar yet given this was his 2nd year and only had a really good TE and rookie WR. I do absolutely agree that the ravens need to develop the passing aspect of their offense but what we saw this year was Lamar as a great pocket passer for the most part and they are retaining their super smart OC. 

Also his performance under pressure is solely passes under pressure, not his runs. And the vast majority of his passes came from inside the pocket, I think all of his TDs actually came from inside the pocket too. 

The difference in the wildcat and Lamar is that Lamar has given a near unprecedented level of passing efficiency at age 22 and it led to an MVP. The wildcat was nothing more than a schematic fad

Not sure what this is supposed to mean.  Dont act like Lamar had to do most by himself with no help.  He had 5 other pro bowlers on offense and that rookie receiver was one of the best WRs to come out last year and a 1st round pick.  That team had 12 pro bowlers and set the Pro Bowl record.  Lamar had a really good season but that team is stacked with talent.

It's not that hard to understand. If your main source  of targets are a rookie and a really good TE then it stands to reason that year 3 can have better receiving targets as the rookie (who was good) enters year 2 + other additions are made. 

His WR group as a whole was not good, and he was still extremely productive as a pocket passer

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I think we haven't even seen the peak of Lamar yet given this was his 2nd year and only had a really good TE and rookie WR. I do absolutely agree that the ravens need to develop the passing aspect of their offense but what we saw this year was Lamar as a great pocket passer for the most part and they are retaining their super smart OC. 

Also his performance under pressure is solely passes under pressure, not his runs. And the vast majority of his passes came from inside the pocket, I think all of his TDs actually came from inside the pocket too. 

The difference in the wildcat and Lamar is that Lamar has given a near unprecedented level of passing efficiency at age 22 and it led to an MVP. The wildcat was nothing more than a schematic fad

Not to diminish Lamar and his year in any way, it is worth noting that he had good passing numbers because of the run threat he poses.  It gives him bigger passing lanes and provides more favorable coverage for his receivers.  I think this game he just had is not an outlier unless he progresses as a pocket passer this off-season.

Yeah, he doesn't have the big body a Cam or Tebow does.  He wont be able to last from the hits over time.  If you can limit his scrambling and make him throw from the pocket he is no where near as affective and he will make the mistake.  But as you said his scrambling ability opens up passing lanes.  He has a ton of talent around him though and a great coaching staff so he is in a good spot

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Not sure what this is supposed to mean.  Dont act like Lamar had to do most by himself with no help.  He had 5 other pro bowlers on offense and that rookie receiver was one of the best WRs to come out last year and a 1st round pick.  That team had 12 pro bowlers and set the Pro Bowl record.  Lamar had a really good season but that team is stacked with talent.

It's not that hard to understand. If your main source  of targets are a rookie and a really good TE then it stands to reason that year 3 can have better receiving targets as the rookie (who was good) enters year 2 + other additions are made. 

His WR group as a whole was not good, and he was still extremely productive as a pocket passer

Year 3 yeah, but with as much talent as that they wont be able to pay everyone.  Newsome is gone also and you have Burrow coming in.  I see that Ravens team being really  good for about 2 more years max and then the downward spiral will begin.  So hopefully they can win the SB next year because that will be their best chance

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The bad thing for Jackson is he has Joe Burrow coming into the division

The good thing though is that Mayfield may not be the answer in Cleveland & Roethlisberger can only play for how much longer in Pittsburgh? 

Jackson was exposed in that match up with the tacks. There was a lot of bend but don't break scheming going on. They were letting him run. Just not north and south as much as he would like. They kept him moving east and west and forced him to eye the sideline more often than not. 

They'll have to keep working on other ways to use his legs outside of just running up and down the field. Get more creative in the pocket with his ability to buy time, etc. 

I hope he bounces back in 2020 with a stronger play off run and performance. I like the kid. 

It'll be fun seeing him and Burrow go toe to toe twice a year. Granted, Burrow has to show that he can do it for the Bengals with Zac Taylor as his headcoach.

I have my doubts about Mayfield as well. Put all the Rah Rah aside and he’s a very average passer.

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Not to diminish Lamar and his year in any way, it is worth noting that he had good passing numbers because of the run threat he poses.  It gives him bigger passing lanes and provides more favorable coverage for his receivers.  I think this game he just had is not an outlier unless he progresses as a pocket passer this off-season.

Yeah, he doesn't have the big body a Cam or Tebow does.  He wont be able to last from the hits over time.  If you can limit his scrambling and make him throw from the pocket he is no where near as affective and he will make the mistake.  But as you said his scrambling ability opens up passing lanes.  He has a ton of talent around him though and a great coaching staff so he is in a good spot

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It's not that hard to understand. If your main source  of targets are a rookie and a really good TE then it stands to reason that year 3 can have better receiving targets as the rookie (who was good) enters year 2 + other additions are made. 

His WR group as a whole was not good, and he was still extremely productive as a pocket passer

Year 3 yeah, but with as much talent as that they wont be able to pay everyone.  Newsome is gone also and you have Burrow coming in.  I see that Ravens team being really  good for about 2 more years max and then the downward spiral will begin.  So hopefully they can win the SB next year because that will be their best chance

The beauty of having a franchise QB is you mostly remain competitive through their whole career. It's v weird to say they have one more chance of a SB without understanding how good the ravens are organisationally in the Fo and coaching, even without Ozzie

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Not to diminish Lamar and his year in any way, it is worth noting that he had good passing numbers because of the run threat he poses.  It gives him bigger passing lanes and provides more favorable coverage for his receivers.  I think this game he just had is not an outlier unless he progresses as a pocket passer this off-season.

Yeah, he doesn't have the big body a Cam or Tebow does.  He wont be able to last from the hits over time.  If you can limit his scrambling and make him throw from the pocket he is no where near as affective and he will make the mistake.  But as you said his scrambling ability opens up passing lanes.  He has a ton of talent around him though and a great coaching staff so he is in a good spot

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It's not that hard to understand. If your main source  of targets are a rookie and a really good TE then it stands to reason that year 3 can have better receiving targets as the rookie (who was good) enters year 2 + other additions are made. 

His WR group as a whole was not good, and he was still extremely productive as a pocket passer

Year 3 yeah, but with as much talent as that they wont be able to pay everyone.  Newsome is gone also and you have Burrow coming in.  I see that Ravens team being really  good for about 2 more years max and then the downward spiral will begin.  So hopefully they can win the SB next year because that will be their best chance

You think Lamar cares that Burrow is going to the bengals? Lol

Might want to set the bar a little low with Burrow in year 1.

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