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Griff's QB Mid-Season Rankings
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(11-16-2017, 12:23 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote:(11-16-2017, 12:08 PM)BlueEyedJag Wrote: Just take whoever loses in Cleveland from McCarron / Lamar Jackson or SF with Rosen / Garoppolo. I'm just thinking its more likely neither draft a QB that high....since they traded for the others... We show less advertisements to registered users. Accounts are free; join today!
(11-16-2017, 12:24 PM)BlueEyedJag Wrote:(11-16-2017, 12:23 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: In his scenario both teams propbably keep both QBs Agree, it just seems like he's trying to reach for any possible way for Jax to not get a franchise QB. Why would teams draft QBs so high if they just traded for QBs
(11-16-2017, 11:05 AM)BlueEyedJag Wrote:(11-16-2017, 02:14 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: You're right, I don't know, but I am simply stating an opinion. I did think Jack and especially Cam Robinson, would fall to round 2 though. Jack was coming off an injury and his availability for the next season was in question. He was not gonna be taken in round 1. I was not all that high on Cam Robinson and although he is proving me wrong so far, (thank God!), I didn't see him as a first rounder. His arrest played a big part in that, because I thought teams wouldn't wanna spend a first rounder on a guy with character concerns, especially in a weaker OT class. No. San Francisco only spent a 2nd rounder to get Garoppolo and he's pretty much an unknown commodity. He's not even signed long term at this point. Why not double down and try to assure yourself a true franchise QB? Maybe they both turn out to be good and now, you use one as a bargaining chip in trade talks. The Niners have a lot of needs, but they also have a lot of pieces already in place. Giving them a true QB for the future could elevate their rebuilding process very quickly. Personally, I'm not a fan of McGlinchey and I don't view RT as an immediate need. I'm also not a huge fan of Scarbrough and I don't see much difference between what he offers and what Fournette does, only Fournette does it much, much better. Besides, I don't think he's entering the draft. He's likely to be the primary back next season and that should improve his draft stock a lot. He'd serve himself well by waiting a year. I like Herdon a lot and have him taken later in the draft, but the selection of Gesicki nullifies that selection for me. This may be the best TE class I've seen in years. Personally, I don't like Will Grier at all. He locks onto receivers and doesn't make good decisions. Besides, I don't think he's entering the draft. Why would he if he's only gonna be a 5th or 6th round selection. Wouldn't he be better off staying in school and improving his draft stock? Everybody has different evaluations though, so to each their own. This is just my opinion.
(11-16-2017, 11:38 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: So everyone gets a franchise QB except the Jags and the Jags don't even draft one either? Ok, lol I'm not saying that's how the draft will go. Personally, I believe we will trade up and get our franchise QB, but since I don't do draft day trades in my mocks, I can only make picks based on current draft positions. I am simply saying based upon where we sit now, I believe the top guys will be off the board. If the picks fell the way I predict, what would you have us do other than trade up? Do we reach for a QB in round 1, because pretty much the rest of the second tier QB's are gone before our pick in round 2. I am simply predicting picks based upon the current order and what I see now is not good for us. To be clear, I have us drafting Colorado State QB Nick Stevens in round 5, but the entire draft was too long to fit in the post. I have Stevens as my dark horse QB and on a brighter note, we'd probably get one of the top 2 QB's in the 2019 draft.
(11-16-2017, 12:24 PM)BlueEyedJag Wrote:(11-16-2017, 12:23 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: In his scenario both teams propbably keep both QBs It's not like those teams are going all in on those QB's they added. They only spent 2nd round picks in those trades and Garoppolo isn't even signed long term. This is more like an audition and passing on a potential franchise QB in the draft, when Jimmy G. might not work out could be catastrophic for the Niners. As for Cleveland, why wouldn't they double down? They have a ton of draft picks and if they pass on another franchise QB in the draft, those fans might riot. Personally, I can pretty much assure you as someone who lives in the Cincinnati area, A.J. McCarron is not the answer. He's a solid backup with limited potential. (11-16-2017, 12:37 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote:(11-16-2017, 12:24 PM)BlueEyedJag Wrote: I'm just thinking its more likely neither draft a QB that high....since they traded for the others... See my answer below. As for trying to reach for ways for us to keep from getting a franchise QB, why would i do that? I desperately want a QB. I just believe we'll have to trade up to get one and I'm 110% all for that. We show less advertisements to registered users. Accounts are free; join today!
(11-16-2017, 01:13 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote:(11-16-2017, 12:24 PM)BlueEyedJag Wrote: I'm just thinking its more likely neither draft a QB that high....since they traded for the others... I think Cleveland def goes QB #1...I don't think they go for McCarron for a 2nd round pick. They are already loaded with guys that are just "meh" at the position...Kizer (2nd rounder) Kessler (3rd rounder)...Rookie QB (1st rounder)...how many guys do you need at QB? For San Fran I can guarantee Garoppolo gets a long term deal (minus injury)...I think they go Saquon Barkley because Cleveland will go QB #1.... Cleveland can't risk Rosen/Rudolph/Jackson going picks #2 - #8...NYG/Cin/Den/LAC could all easily go QB and then TB sitting at #8 is a prime trade partner for someone wanting to jump Cleveland if they don't go QB #1.
(11-16-2017, 01:27 PM)BlueEyedJag Wrote:(11-16-2017, 01:13 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: It's not like those teams are going all in on those QB's they added. They only spent 2nd round picks in those trades and Garoppolo isn't even signed long term. This is more like an audition and passing on a potential franchise QB in the draft, when Jimmy G. might not work out could be catastrophic for the Niners. As for Cleveland, why wouldn't they double down? They have a ton of draft picks and if they pass on another franchise QB in the draft, those fans might riot. Personally, I can pretty much assure you as someone who lives in the Cincinnati area, A.J. McCarron is not the answer. He's a solid backup with limited potential. As many as it takes to finally find a true franchise starter and if they make the moves I predict, Kessler would be released, leaving them with McCarron, Kizer and their rookie. Kizer would then probably be relegated to 3rd string where he belongs. You say Cleveland will go QB, but when I said they would go QB, you said they wouldn't? The Browns and Bengals already had a deal done for McCarron that got messed up, why wouldn't the same deal get done after the season? Why would the Browns not add the concensus best player in the draft at a need position (Barkley) and still get one of the top QB's in the draft with their other top 10 pick? I could easily see the Giants drafting a QB, but since I have them trading for Cousins, I negated that. They have HUGE problems on the O-Line, so I just can't see them sticking a rookie back there without fixing the O-Line first. A veteran like Cousins would make much more sense, but if they didn't deal for him, I believe they would take a LT. The same goes for Denver. I believe they fix a depleted O-Line before placing yet another young QB behind that O-Line. The Chargers make the most sense as a landing spot for a rookie QB. In any case, I believe Kirk Cousins will land somewhere with one of the teams mentioned here. Washington has to get some compensation for him, because it's highly unlikely he re-signs after all the waiting they've made him do for a long term deal. They seem completely non-committal to him anyway. Tagging him yet again, would just be delaying the inevitable and this would be a good draft class to find his replacement. Cincinnati will absolutely not take a QB. I live in the Cincinnati area and the local sports radio shows here are laughing at the idea that people think believe they'll take a QB. Their O-Line is trash and that is where the problem lies. They must come out of this draft with at the very least, a new LT and a new Center, but they could use so much more.
(11-16-2017, 01:49 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote:(11-16-2017, 01:27 PM)BlueEyedJag Wrote: I think Cleveland def goes QB #1...I don't think they go for McCarron for a 2nd round pick. They are already loaded with guys that are just "meh" at the position...Kizer (2nd rounder) Kessler (3rd rounder)...Rookie QB (1st rounder)...how many guys do you need at QB? I don't think they go McCarron and QB is what I've stated multiple times...What does McCarron bring to the table that you want to give up a 2nd rounder for if you are going to draft a QB in the 1st? If we play the game using your hypo... Rosen/Rudolph go...then LAC goes with Jackson....I could easily see the NYJ or any QB hungry team that views Mayfield as the last "starter" trading up with TB to grab Jackson ahead of Cleveland. Then who does Cleveland go with at #9? To me it goes back to if you feel one of these guys is a "Franchise QB" you don't risk him slipping to your 2nd pick if you have the #1 overall pick...
(11-16-2017, 02:20 PM)BlueEyedJag Wrote:(11-16-2017, 01:49 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: As many as it takes to finally find a true franchise starter and if they make the moves I predict, Kessler would be released, leaving them with McCarron, Kizer and their rookie. Kizer would then probably be relegated to 3rd string where he belongs. I agree, but the truth is, they technically did give up a 2nd round pick for McCarron, the deal just got turned in too late, so there is no reason to believe that the same deal wouldn't be re-visited. What has changed that you believe they wouldn't cut the same deal? As I said before, the Browns cannot pass on getting a franchise QB and they would also need a transition QB. They already know that Kizer is looking like a dud. No matter what they do, Kessler is likely a goner. McCarron would give them a likely short term starter who is familiar with Hue Jackson's offense and a first rounder would give them a QB of the future. I don't think that will happen, so I can't comment. As I said before, I don't necessarily believe this is how the draft will go. I believe we will trade up and get our QB. I just don't predict draft day trades in my mocks. I don't wanna miss out on getting a franchise QB and I don't think we will. My guess is that we target picks #5-8 to tray and trade up to make a deal. It will cost a lot, but it would be well worth it to get our QB of the future. We show less advertisements to registered users. Accounts are free; join today!
(11-16-2017, 02:34 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote:(11-16-2017, 02:20 PM)BlueEyedJag Wrote: I don't think they go McCarron and QB is what I've stated multiple times...What does McCarron bring to the table that you want to give up a 2nd rounder for if you are going to draft a QB in the 1st? They can go the McCown route and not give up a 2nd rounder if they are just looking for a "transition" QB...why give up assets (even if you have a ton). To play Devil's Advocate using your No Rookie behind a shaky OL...what would you call the Jags OL right now? We have Robinson/Linder as locks....Parnell has done great this year but is injured...Cann has been really iffy...Omameh hurt/FA next year. We basically have 2 huge holes at OG and possibly RT as well. Best case scenario...Robinson//??//Shatley//Linder//Parnell. We still have a hole at LG but realistically we have hole at both OG as Linder will probably stick at Center. To go from the 20's to #5-#8 we would probably need to give up this years 1st/2nd and next year's 1st at a minimum...Chiefs gave up #27/3rd rounder/next year's 1st to go up to #10 last year.
(11-16-2017, 02:45 PM)BlueEyedJag Wrote:(11-16-2017, 02:34 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: I agree, but the truth is, they technically did give up a 2nd round pick for McCarron, the deal just got turned in too late, so there is no reason to believe that the same deal wouldn't be re-visited. What has changed that you believe they wouldn't cut the same deal? As I said before, the Browns cannot pass on getting a franchise QB and they would also need a transition QB. They already know that Kizer is looking like a dud. No matter what they do, Kessler is likely a goner. McCarron would give them a likely short term starter who is familiar with Hue Jackson's offense and a first rounder would give them a QB of the future. How so? They won't get McCown for free. Right now, I would call the Jaguars O-Line decent. I like what Robinson has done at LT, Omameh has been better than expected when healthy, Linder is solid, Cann needs to be replaced and Parnell is good enough to get us through another season. No reason to create a need at RT, when he's been playing well. I know what it would take to move up into the top 10 and I'm still 110% behind the move. I'm normally totally against trading up, but the need for a true franchise QB trumps that, especially when a QB is one of the last missing pieces in a complete team.
(11-16-2017, 03:10 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote:(11-16-2017, 02:45 PM)BlueEyedJag Wrote: They can go the McCown route and not give up a 2nd rounder if they are just looking for a "transition" QB...why give up assets (even if you have a ton). You had the Jags "signing" him in your hypo...figured the Browns could as well. If we could move up and get Rosen/Rudolph/Jackson I'd be all for it I just think they will get taken by teams before we can trade up. I like Mayfield a lot but I would prefer to see if he fell rather than giving up the draft to take him alone. If he falls...great...if not take the best OL/WR/TE and shoot for one of the Finley/Ferguson/etc in the 2nd... I just think we don't need a QB to carry us and while a Franchise QB would be amazing I'd rather build up the OL/TE/WR corps then trade the farm for the #4 QB off the board.
(11-16-2017, 03:40 PM)BlueEyedJag Wrote:(11-16-2017, 03:10 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: How so? They won't get McCown for free. Sorry. I got mixed up between McCown and McCarron. When you get my age, names get confusing. The Browns absolutely could sign McCown, but since they have already road the "McCown train" once, I doubt they would bring him back, besides McCarron knows Hue Jackson's offense and would probably be a much better immediate fit. I'm not a fan of Jackson at all. He reminds me of a taller RG3, but some team is inevitably gonna fall in love with his athleticism and take him early. If I knew we could get Rosen or Rudolph, that would be great, but I would also have no problem at all trading up into the #5 to #8 range to take Mayfield. At this point, his draft stock is going up every week and I don't see any way he falls into the mid to late 20's. He has a pretty good arm, he's very accurate, shows superb leadership skills and makes pretty good reads. Even if he measures closer to 6' tall, he appears to have Drew Brees type skills. In my draft scenario, that's what we did, but Finley or Ferguson didn't fall to us either. That's perfectly o.k., if that is your draft philosophy. I happen to disagree. I believe we are a good QB away from reaching a Superbowl at this point and I'm willing to go all in to get one. I believe the O-Line just needs a RG to be good enough to drastically help the blocking, this draft is absolutely loaded at TE and we could get a very good one all the way into round 5. As for WR, I believe we could have Julio Jones on one side and Tyreek Hill on the other and we'd still not be successful until we found a valid QB. You have to have a QB that can get WR's the ball. A good QB can make average WR's look better. Just look what Carson Wentz has done in Philly with average WR's. We show less advertisements to registered users. Accounts are free; join today!
Baker Mayfield has moved up to my qb1. He might be a little undersized but he has all the tools, he loves winning, he loves football, he has that IT factor to him. He could make the offense very exciting to match the defense.
Coughlin when asked if winning will be a focus: "What the hell else is there? This is nice and dandy, but winning is what all this is about."
(11-18-2017, 07:46 PM)Achilles Wrote: Baker Mayfield has moved up to my qb1. He might be a little undersized but he has all the tools, he loves winning, he loves football, he has that IT factor to him. He could make the offense very exciting to match the defense. I all for fire, but I don't know if I like that grabbin of the mcnugs stunt he pulled. That'll get you fined in the NFL and targeted by defenses. I do really like him as a QB though. The offense would have to change a bit to fit his style. Tebow kind of said it perfectly on first take the other day, he loves Mayfield and wants to see him in an offense similar to the one O'brien has for Watson. We show less advertisements to registered users. Accounts are free; join today!
Rosen is outplaying darnold easily, but penalties and special teams are killing UCLA.
I don't think darnold should come out this year. He is too inconsistent in the pocket. Sometimes he gets happy feet, sometimes his footwork gets sloppy. You can tell he isn't always comfortable in the pocket. I think another season at USC would really help him.
Coughlin when asked if winning will be a focus: "What the hell else is there? This is nice and dandy, but winning is what all this is about."
(11-18-2017, 10:57 PM)Achilles Wrote: Rosen is outplaying darnold easily, but penalties and special teams are killing UCLA. I totally agree. Rosen's problem is a lack of talent around him. Lansley is finally turning into a decent receiver, but it has taken a while. After losing his top receiver to injury (TE Caleb Wilson,) the receiving has been inconsistent, the running game has stalled and the UCLA defense has been nothing short of pathetic this year, especially the run defense, ranking 129th out of 130 teams. I'm really surprised they kept this game close. I was expecting USC to hang 50 on the Bruins. Darnold needs to go back to school. He shows great leadership, but a mix of poor reads, turnovers and sloppy mechanics is very concerning. He'd do himself a service by returning to school.
(11-19-2017, 02:33 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote:(11-18-2017, 10:57 PM)Achilles Wrote: Rosen is outplaying darnold easily, but penalties and special teams are killing UCLA. Darren Andrews was his best receiver and played good all year but he lost him as well a couple weeks ago to an ACL i believe. UCLA defense is straight trash though |
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