that has EVERYTHING to do with what I posted.  I never said a rebuild wasn't necessary to gather talent.  WHAT I SAID WAS you should not allow a coach to have 4 years of 3 wins in a row and hide behind the rebuild moniker.

You can win quickly after rebuilding supplementing through free agency and making the right draft choices and having good coaching.  Good coaching is crucial

you guys are the ones arguing something different from the post.  Having Coughlin here last year and not Gus and us winning 5 more games than last year is EVERYTHING that I am posting about.

Rebuilding is eventually needed for everyone, unless you constantly are supplementing eventual replacements like the patriots.  Stop arguing something irrelevant.

Those of you who defended Gene for 4 years and Gus as well look ridiculous, and you can try to act like you dont all you want, doesn't change the facts

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if putting me down makes you feel better about blindly following anyone who is coach at the time or GM at the time no matter how bad the results, then so be it, that's on you.

Get the right people in here running a football team, and things turn around much quicker

Okay...I still want to see where you advocated hiring Marrone before the hire, or lauded the choice immediately after it was made.

You are saying "I told you so" based solely on the fact we may have kept Bradley too long.

Anyone can say a coach should be fired.

But in your closing line here, you say "get the right people in here running a football team."

We can only assume that Marrone was the right person for this team.

If this is true, where was your advocacy for Marrone before or immediately after the hire?

I'm not sure what my opinion of Marrone has to do with what I am saying.  IIRC, I was lukewarm on Marrone, I wasnt upset with the hiring, and I wasn't like giddy about it, I was more along the lines of being fine with it... I was ecstatic about Coughlin... but again that's not the point.

My point is, and I dont get why it is confusing, that you can tell quite quickly if a coach is NOT the right answer, as well as a GM, though admittedly it takes a tad longer with a GM sometimes.  Gus should have been kicked out of here early on in year 3.  Gene should have been immediately ousted after year 3.  In both cases I was ridiculed and called names by mods and others for having that opinion back then.  I was a bibber, hand wringer, whiner, not patient enough, clueless, etc.  I needed to let a guy, or those guys in this case, have multiple years.

What I am saying is, the right coach/leader can make an IMMEDIATE and easily known impact.  If 10 years down the line we find ourselves in the pits again, lets not fall into the same mistakes as before and allow bums to have 4 years to turn things around

that is all I am saying.  Guys like Coughlin can come in and fix a football team immediately, as have others.

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what?? where in the world did I even imply such a thing???

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When you said this:

I mean, if he was here last year, I dont think we would be in the AFC championship, but I guarantee you we would have won 7 or 8 games, that's without this year's FA haul

You have been saying Bradley should have been fired sooner.

When you said Marrone (the right coach) would have had the 2016 team at about 7-8 wins.

Does this team advance to the AFC Championship this year without Fournette, Cam Robinson, or Dede Westbrook?

Short answer:  no.

If we won 7-8 games in 2016, are we in a position to draft any of those guys this year?  Fournette?  Definitely not.  Robinson?  Probably not.

I think that's an awful way to look at things, we could have easily signed a tackle in FA... RB can be found elsewhere, maybe, we would have drafted kareem hunt or alvin kamara this year with a middle round pick in round 2 or 3?

that game can be played all kinds of ways

fact is coughlin is the major reason this team turned things around immediately, I'm sure Marrone should get a lot of credit too, but Coughlin turned this thing around over night

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I get a kick out of folks propping up Coughlin as the primary catalyst of change.

None of us can can do more than blindly speculate about what influence and impact he's had. We don't know.

I'm personally much more inclined to credit Marrone and his staff than a figurehead with an unquantifiable presence in decision making.

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Like some posters, I find it odd that Coughlin has been given all this credit for changing a franchise around when all he did is walk through the door. Pieces were in place, to include Marrone. I really think the credit needs to go to Marrone and other coaches for getting this talent moving together and in the right direction. Sure ol' Tommy put his fingerprint on some things but I do not believe he deserves all the glory.

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so, we hire coughlin, and immediately have the best season in franchise history since we had....... tom coughlin as coach.... but you are right, it's crazy to think that it's anyone other than coughlin as the main reason

nevermind the reports like this one that talk about how much an impact he has had

http://www.espn.com/blog/jacksonville-ja...-was-hired

also, never mind all that Marrone has said coughlin has done for the team and himself

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So the point of this thread is to start a pointless argument/debate?

Who ever accepted mediocrity? I'm sure I speak for most on this board when I say we didn't accept it, but what do we actually do about it?..

Temper tantrums...  Lots of temper tantrums.

Ahh.. that's what my wife does when things don't go her way.

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80% of what I talk about is nonesense.. the other 25% is made up statistics...


 

Okay...I still want to see where you advocated hiring Marrone before the hire, or lauded the choice immediately after it was made.

You are saying "I told you so" based solely on the fact we may have kept Bradley too long.

Anyone can say a coach should be fired.

But in your closing line here, you say "get the right people in here running a football team."

We can only assume that Marrone was the right person for this team.

If this is true, where was your advocacy for Marrone before or immediately after the hire?

I'm not sure what my opinion of Marrone has to do with what I am saying.  IIRC, I was lukewarm on Marrone, I wasnt upset with the hiring, and I wasn't like giddy about it, I was more along the lines of being fine with it... I was ecstatic about Coughlin... but again that's not the point.

My point is, and I dont get why it is confusing, that you can tell quite quickly if a coach is NOT the right answer, as well as a GM, though admittedly it takes a tad longer with a GM sometimes.  Gus should have been kicked out of here early on in year 3.  Gene should have been immediately ousted after year 3.  In both cases I was ridiculed and called names by mods and others for having that opinion back then.  I was a bibber, hand wringer, whiner, not patient enough, clueless, etc.  I needed to let a guy, or those guys in this case, have multiple years.

What I am saying is, the right coach/leader can make an IMMEDIATE and easily known impact.  If 10 years down the line we find ourselves in the pits again, lets not fall into the same mistakes as before and allow bums to have 4 years to turn things around

that is all I am saying.  Guys like Coughlin can come in and fix a football team immediately, as have others.

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When you said this:


You have been saying Bradley should have been fired sooner.

When you said Marrone (the right coach) would have had the 2016 team at about 7-8 wins.

Does this team advance to the AFC Championship this year without Fournette, Cam Robinson, or Dede Westbrook?

Short answer:  no.

If we won 7-8 games in 2016, are we in a position to draft any of those guys this year?  Fournette?  Definitely not.  Robinson?  Probably not.

I think that's an awful way to look at things, we could have easily signed a tackle in FA... RB can be found elsewhere, maybe, we would have drafted kareem hunt or alvin kamara this year with a middle round pick in round 2 or 3?

that game can be played all kinds of ways

fact is coughlin is the major reason this team turned things around immediately, I'm sure Marrone should get a lot of credit too, but Coughlin turned this thing around over night

1.  There are two elements to your argument:  We kept Bradley too long; and we had to get the right guy in place.  As I said, it doesn't take a great deal of insight for a person to advocate firing a guy.  Any reactionary can do that.  But making a case for who the right guy is before he proves it is something else entirely.  By your own admission, you were lukewarm at best on the Marrone hiring.  You are here thumping your chest about being right over the rebuild, saying it shouldn't take long to turn a team around, but at best, you only got the easiest part of the equation right before hand.  

2.  Assuming Coughlin was the right person to turn the team around immediately, he defeats your own argument.  When he became coach back in 1993, his record his first year was 4-12.  According to you, if he has an immediate impact irrespective of the talent available, how did the 4-12 happen?  After he took the Jaguars to four straight winning seasons, he had three straight losing seasons here.  If he is capable of turning a team around immediately, irrespective of talent, how did he have ANY losing season here, much less three straight?  For that matter, after he won the Super Bowl in NY, he had losing seasons for the Giants.  How did that happen?

3.  What free agent LT was available on the open market?

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

http://www.espn.com/blog/jacksonville-ja...-was-hired

I mean, if he was here last year, I dont think we would be in the AFC championship, but I guarantee you we would have won 7 or 8 games, that's without this year's FA haul

you guys can continue to defend your crazy views from years past where you were A OK with perpetual ineptitude at the coaching position and GM position before that, but it doesn't change the facts around the NFL.... only perennial losers continue to "rebuild" and continue to lose... teams with good leaders can turn things around in a single off season or 2 and the examples are plentiful and way more abundant than they are supporting the rest of your views where its OK to suck for 4 years

this isn't the NBA, where tanking ACTUALLY IS the ONLY way to improve because its a star driven league with very few of them, and now they only go to super teams already having stars.  The NFL has the most parity of any league in the world for a reason.  Coaching/scheme, etc matters so much more in football

So you are telling us that you'd rather have a 7-8 win season and not reach the AFC Championship (or more) the next year as opposed to a 3 win season and reaching the AFC championship game (or more) the next year?

Who is settling for mediocrity again?

You have to sell mediocrity if your mission is to perpetuate the self soiling ritual of the eternal hand wringer.

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Touting teams that took 4-5 years to rebuild as proof that it only takes 1-2 years to rebuild. 

Interesting logic.

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