maybe if they would have asked to clean the bathroom
But ya never know

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“You may never know what results come of your actions, but if you do nothing, there will be no results.”
“If you find a way to motivate an idiot you have a motivated idiot”

I think instantly pretending that race is a factor when one party is anything but white is dangerous and pretending that we are no better than 50 years ago. Don’t let the media dumb it down to some perceived epidemic. Identity politics and agenda is insulting to Americans in general. None of the factors you mention makes this racial. It just differs from your personal experience.

Can we prove it was racism? No

Is it probable? Yes

Is every confrontation between a white person and a black person racially motivated?

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Why is there no white entrainment Chanel
Is it racial when a black man kills/robs a black man

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“You may never know what results come of your actions, but if you do nothing, there will be no results.”
“If you find a way to motivate an idiot you have a motivated idiot”

Oh nobody said anything about this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOG5T6OBpJU&app=desktop

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“You may never know what results come of your actions, but if you do nothing, there will be no results.”
“If you find a way to motivate an idiot you have a motivated idiot”

All I know is I like my coffee like I like my ex-wife...

Ground up and in the freezer.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

They were asked to do business or leave. They refused to comply with Starbucks' request. They're in a busy part of Philadelphia; it isn't like they have empty space for non-paying customers.

When the police show up, they were confrontational and again refused to do business or leave. The police are even saying that they were insulting and uncooperative.

Are we really suggesting that it's racist to kick out a non-paying customer now? C'mon

 
Man you hate minorities.

You can't not be a victim, huh?

By their own admission, they were told it was paying customers only and he simply left the conversation (implying he didn't want to purchase anything) and sat down with his friend. They said the manager came up to them and asked if she could take their order, and he said that they brought their own water into the store--that they were "fine". Then he said that he was waiting for a meeting and would be "out really quick". Seems obvious to me that they didn't want to purchase anything.

Your argument requires that we believe:
1.) The manager was racially biased
2.) The manager wanted them to leave rather than purchasing anything
3.) The manager's decision was based partially or completely because of race
4.) The manager wouldn't have done the same to white customers not wanting to do business
5.) The customer's behavior didn't contribute to the request to leave

If you say that you believe all of the above are correct, then you're asking us to assume all of the worst-case scenarios happened which is the most unlikely scenario. If you say one of these scenarios are incorrect, then I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion that it was racially motivated. This leads me to believe that the most likely scenario is probably what happens most... the customers got upset at the manager's request purchase something instead of getting their way.

Your post is filled with anecdotal evidence. Some of my very own experience would suggest otherwise. It isn't unreasonable to believe someone would force officers to arrest them for something I'm sure they didn't want to get arrest for. I've seen it hundred of times, especially with businesses. Customers feel entitled to service and refuse to leave until they get it. They think that they can bully the employees and eventually the police into getting their way. It often leads to an arrest.

Well done list, except 1, 3 and 4 are essentially the same thing. It is possible the manager was at least biased in his assessment that the 2 men were not there to buy something for the duration of their visit, and that's all it takes for my scenario to be possible.

Filled with anecdotal evidence? I did not give a single anecdote. What you apparently meant was my opinion is based on the anecdotes of people who have experienced the type of thing we're discussing here. I'm sorry, but what they tell me bears more weight with me than your experiences. My black friends and co-workers weren't political activists, or even complaining. They were just relating what happened to them.

 I have no idea how you managed to be a police officer in the south and still think racial bias is rare, but it is what it is.

They can me mutually exclusive. Of course it's possible she was racist, but it's also possible that the men treated her as the police say they were treated. Which, for me, seems to make the most sense. They probably pissed her off and she kicked them out. 

I honestly don't care how my opinion weighs with you. I'm not looking for your sympathy, but if you honestly think there's a difference in my examples versus those of your friends, then you're purposely choosing to find experiences that support your argument and exclude others. That was my point. 

My opinion of racism is that it's rare overall but exhibited by everyone. White people tend to be more discrete and black people are more upfront about it. It isn't, however, a problem and rarely effects the someone's life. It's an overly exaggerated problem.

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According to what I have read....the police were called within 2 minutes of the customers arriving. 2 minutes.

The manager that made the call has already left the company and they're shutting down for a day costing themselves a ton of money.

I've had customers yell at me for more than two straight minutes, threaten to shoot me, threaten to stab me, etc..... And the police have never arrested any of them. They've come out, asked both parties what happened and have never made an arrest once.

Racism is a huge issue and to pretend like it had nothing to do with this situation is just swimming further in denial.

I'm going to assume that the manager and the two customers are going to sue and win money. Starbucks will settle with both parties. Starbucks has already admitted wrongdoing and assigned a racial motive to her actions. She'll likely feel like her character is defamed, and they'll all see a lot of money from this. Stabucks didn't handle this well legally. 

Did the customers admit they threatened you? I'm guessing it was he-said, she-said on your situation. They openly told the police they wouldn't leave at Starbucks. They don't need a whole lot of evidence there.

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Triggered by a coffee shop.

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I think instantly pretending that race is a factor when one party is anything but white is dangerous and pretending that we are no better than 50 years ago. Don’t let the media dumb it down to some perceived epidemic. Identity politics and agenda is insulting to Americans in general. None of the factors you mention makes this racial. It just differs from your personal experience.

Can we prove it was racism? No

Is it probable? Yes

The bigger issue is that this card is played to sweep any misbehavior (any level, large or small) completely under the rug.

Instead of there being wrong on both sides, it' magically becomes one sided with the play of a single card.

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"You do your own thing in your own time. You should be proud."

Can we prove it was racism? No

Is it probable? Yes

The bigger issue is that this card is played to sweep any misbehavior (any level, large or small) completely under the rug.

Instead of there being wrong on both sides, it' magically becomes one sided with the play of a single card.

I agree that this can often be the case.  However, what wrongdoing was there on the part of the two men, especially since multiple white customers have claimed that they've been allowed to use the restroom without making a purchase with no issue?  By all accounts, the two men were respectful and calm.

Starbucks has created an environment where it's a hub for meetings and hangouts.  There are plenty of times I've been to one and spent zero dollars, using the restroom when I please.

Race remains a very complicated issue in this country, as it does in any place where one race literally owned another and treated them as subhuman for hundreds of years, and there exist many unconscious biases on both sides.  We're not far removed from "separate but equal" and Jim Crow.  The cry from white people seems to be "get over it" in many cases, and I think that it's been swept under the rug for a good long while, which is probably why these issues are beginning to resurface.  Just my .02, for what it's worth.

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Nobody complained about this man whom was a paying coustomer getting the boot
http://worldnewsdailyreport.com/man-kick...nt-page-2/

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“You may never know what results come of your actions, but if you do nothing, there will be no results.”
“If you find a way to motivate an idiot you have a motivated idiot”

Your .02 is worth much more than that. It's good discussion.

I think both can have difficulty understanding each others' point of view. Especially if there are bias on both sides at play before a word is spoken.

I can only speak for me. I see people as individuals, not as part of a group. I make judgments based on an individuals values and behavior, not by superficial means. As an individual I recognize that not all people are like me and share those same values. All I can control is me.

That's my approach to my life and those around me.

Ed Latimore is a fascinating follow for me on Twitter. His perspective is one I couldn't have, but I share so many values with him. This is how we should associate ourselves - with positive people who have like values, and disassociate with those who do not. Not by superficial things like skin tone. His book "Not Caring What People Think is a Superpower" is simple and powerful. From my perspective, that's what "moving on" would mean to me. Don't waste energy on what you can't change, and focus on what you can.

My disagreement with the Starbucks incident is behavior. If I were asked to leave, I would. Solely because that's who I am. I understand why it's different for those two men for the reasons you mention. But two wrongs don't make a right. Achilles is correct that we don't know if racism was a factor and we can't know. But if I comply, I know I'm in the right even if I feel they're in the wrong. There are real battles to fight, and you choose the ones that are meaningful. Parks was right, but this is nothing like that. I think we can all agree that this has been amplified well beyond what was reasonable on both sides in this case.

IMO, the undue amplification is not due to race in and of itself. The bigger problem is the hyper-politicization and need for extremists to virtue rage about every single thing in life. Bathrooms, cakes, and on and on and on... there's a fascist mob mentality at work trying to convert or destroy those who will not comply (not unlike the Borg.)

Sanity is gone. Humanity is slipping. Emotional intelligence has yielded to virtue signaling. Couple this with the coldness of the internet and electronic media where people are electronically connected but socially disconnected: all this is destroying our true societal ties. People can hate and shout at people who aren't "real" and keep fueling their self destruction.

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"You do your own thing in your own time. You should be proud."

Hey Amazing That in the past news relates to the now 
  0FA95CA3-CD1B-4316-AB51-66741450524E.jpeg (Size: 190.06 KB / Downloads: 189)

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“You may never know what results come of your actions, but if you do nothing, there will be no results.”
“If you find a way to motivate an idiot you have a motivated idiot”

How do people feel about nearly 170k employees being sent to training to become more "racially sensitive" based on the actions of 1 person? This company and the liberal mindset in general are so diseased.

With that, I leave you with this hilarious video of a black man getting free coffee from the company for being black.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...video.html

And this will surely go down as the most predictable thread of the day.

I suppose private business is free to do whatever it wants until it triggers you?

Yep your right lookie here 
A Manhattan judge ruled Wednesday that kicking a Trump supporter out of a bar does not violate the law

http://www.foxnews.com/food-drink/2018/0...a-hat.html

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“You may never know what results come of your actions, but if you do nothing, there will be no results.”
“If you find a way to motivate an idiot you have a motivated idiot”

I hate coffee.

This is the greatest heap of truth in this thread. Coffee is gross.

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I hate coffee.

This is the greatest heap of truth in this thread. Coffee is gross.

That's a lie from the pits of hell. My dad calls it the nectar of the Gods. 

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So what is the going rate for ant-bias training and customer loitering? Mmm, an average price increase of 9% and about $540 million in additional revenue.

http://fortune.com/2018/06/07/starbucks-...on-sharing

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According to the 2 men who were arrested, they entered the Starbucks, asked to use the restroom (politely), a request which was refused because they hadn't made a purchase and were told to leave after 2 minutes. They were waiting on another person for a business meeting and that's why they hadn't ordered yet. I've yet to find a conflicting report. I've been to a Starbucks, people loll around all the time before ordering. There is nothing in any report indicating the Starbucks was crowded. People could be heard on the video saying the men were doing nothing wrong.

Yes, of course the police would say the were insulting and uncooperative. One of the men said the police made no effort to resolve the situation or get their side of the story. Of course, I know which side you believe and support.

Please tell me you've never entered a restaurant needing to use the bathroom right away, or sat at a table waiting on someone before ordering.

The store manager may or may not have been racist, but it does appear he could have handled this situation better.

They were asked to leave within two minutes because, according to the manager, they voiced their intent from the beginning. They said they weren’t going to purchase anything. This matches what the police said was told to them too. When the manager told them to leave, they refused to do that. 

And, of course, you choose the side of the criminal. Whatever reason you want to attribute to it, they were asked to leave by he manager and the police. That is trespassing. The police asked the to leave because that’s what the manager wanted. The police aren’t required to get their side of the story—they’re trespassing. It literally doesn’t matter. 

Why would the police lie about these two insulting them? Sympathy? I can’t imagine how it’s easier for you to believe that two men were racially discriminated against in a majority black city wherein they admitted that they did not purchase anything while also questioning the credibility of the store’s manager’s account of events. An account consistent with a black officer’s (the arresting officer). 

If someone is trespassing in your house, do you want the police get their side of it before kicking them out?

I’ve also entered restaurants or stores that require paying customers. I’ve been turned away and / or required to pay. I didn’t protest and force the owner to call the police and then cry racism when I was arrested while pretending that my business was more important than property rights.

They were simply trespassed.  They refused to leave.  They were made to leave.  They were not arrested.  If they had injured the cops in the process of being trespassed, they could be prosecuted for that.  But they didn't, and they won't be prosecuted. It is wrong to call them criminals.  Trespassing is a civil infraction.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

And this will surely go down as the most predictable thread of the day.

I suppose private business is free to do whatever it wants until it triggers you?

Yep your right lookie here 
A Manhattan judge ruled Wednesday that kicking a Trump supporter out of a bar does not violate the law

http://www.foxnews.com/food-drink/2018/0...a-hat.html

And Starbucks kicking out two guys for sitting without buying anything also doesn't violate the law.
Just because it caused a lot of criticism doesn't mean it was illegal.
If the Starbucks manager had overtly indicated that they were being kicked out due to their race, gender, or national origin (or other protected classes depending on the state), that would be illegal.   But political affiliation is not a protected class for businesses open to the public in any state.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

Who the hell goes to Starbucks anyway. Awful coffee.

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Yep your right lookie here 
A Manhattan judge ruled Wednesday that kicking a Trump supporter out of a bar does not violate the law

http://www.foxnews.com/food-drink/2018/0...a-hat.html

And Starbucks kicking out two guys for sitting without buying anything also doesn't violate the law.
Just because it caused a lot of criticism doesn't mean it was illegal.
If the Starbucks manager had overtly indicated that they were being kicked out due to their race, gender, or national origin (or other protected classes depending on the state), that would be illegal.   But political affiliation is not a protected class for businesses open to the public in any state.

That seems like an easy way around racial discrimination when almost all blacks are Democrats.

Or do different laws apply to Dems vs. Pubs?

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"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"