Assuming Mahomes and Watson would be mediocre on this roster is a giant leap of logic that I find very unwise. It's just convenient to your narrative. 

And yeah, Blake is a mobile QB that runs and throws. It's just that he throws a very inaccurate and poorly timed ball into coverage WAAAAYYYYYYYYY too often.

Its a leap of logic based on idiot coaches who do not properly know how to use personell. maybe as rookiees they would just say hey screw the coach im gonna run the ball my way. What the texans and cheifs did was to design their offense around those QBs. im just saying our coaches would not do that. And blake is statisticly a much better passer on the move, another fact that these idots failed to capitalize on. Im just saying we need new coaching if we are gonna draft one of these mobile QBs but if we stick with marone we probably will fail again at getting a franchise QB.

Completely agree

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If you think I offended you, don't worry, I meant to. #facts 
  
#iamlegend

Assuming Mahomes and Watson would be mediocre on this roster is a giant leap of logic that I find very unwise. It's just convenient to your narrative. 

And yeah, Blake is a mobile QB that runs and throws. It's just that he throws a very inaccurate and poorly timed ball into coverage WAAAAYYYYYYYYY too often.

Its a leap of logic based on idiot coaches who do not properly know how to use personell. maybe as rookiees they would just say hey screw the coach im gonna run the ball my way. What the texans and cheifs did was to design their offense around those QBs....

Umm, they fired the offensive coordinator. You do realize that means a new playbook next year, right? 
That's a done deal.
If they hire a guy worth his salt - he'll tailor the new book to his personnel better than what we've seen lately. 
Guess you'll have to trust Coughlin to sign off on the right guy. 

And I'm sorry, but you guys are seriously blind if you think these coordinators coming through Duval the past five years haven't had their backs against the wall having to mitigate the shortcomings of Blake freaking Bortles. 
He missed PLENTY of easy throws on the run too.  The smartest thing Hackett ever did was too immediately eliminate the quick out route. Blake couldn't complete it to save his hide, and he probably threw as many picks as completions on that route under Fisch and Olson. 
When that's your starting point as a coordinator  -- you're in for a challenge.

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Its a leap of logic based on idiot coaches who do not properly know how to use personell. maybe as rookiees they would just say hey screw the coach im gonna run the ball my way. What the texans and cheifs did was to design their offense around those QBs....

Umm, they fired the offensive coordinator. You do realize that means a new playbook next year, right? 
That's a done deal.
If they hire a guy worth his salt - he'll tailor the new book to his personnel better than what we've seen lately. 
Guess you'll have to trust Coughlin to sign off on the right guy. 

And I'm sorry, but you guys are seriously blind if you think these coordinators coming through Duval the past five years haven't had their backs against the wall having to mitigate the shortcomings of Blake freaking Bortles. 
He missed PLENTY of easy throws on the run too.  The smartest thing Hackett ever did was too immediately eliminate the quick out route. Blake couldn't complete it to save his hide, and he probably threw as many picks as completions on that route under Fisch and Olson. 
When that's your starting point as a coordinator  -- you're in for a challenge.

I agree to a point.

But..

He started eliminating the things that Blake did well too. Like throwing on 1st down or those short crossing routes. (Then again, the WRs cant cat so.) But Hackett had to be fired, he got into a rut that he never got himself out of. Like running LF into the back of the OL multiple times. From HC and down, this season has been a failure.

You seriously have to admit that if they would've just used what you have here, the little we have, that we would have won more games with Blake in there. Coaching and development has been horrible this year.

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If you think I offended you, don't worry, I meant to. #facts 
  
#iamlegend

Its a leap of logic based on idiot coaches who do not properly know how to use personell. maybe as rookiees they would just say hey screw the coach im gonna run the ball my way. What the texans and cheifs did was to design their offense around those QBs....

Umm, they fired the offensive coordinator. You do realize that means a new playbook next year, right? 
That's a done deal.
If they hire a guy worth his salt - he'll tailor the new book to his personnel better than what we've seen lately. 
Guess you'll have to trust Coughlin to sign off on the right guy. 

And I'm sorry, but you guys are seriously blind if you think these coordinators coming through Duval the past five years haven't had their backs against the wall having to mitigate the shortcomings of Blake freaking Bortles. 
He missed PLENTY of easy throws on the run too.  The smartest thing Hackett ever did was too immediately eliminate the quick out route. Blake couldn't complete it to save his hide, and he probably threw as many picks as completions on that route under Fisch and Olson. 
When that's your starting point as a coordinator  -- you're in for a challenge.

yes i know all that. The point was made if we drafted mahomes or watson instead of 4net they would be like they are now. I was just saying not with the coaches we had then. I hope to everything that we get a compitant OC and HC in here and a DC while your at it.


Let me ask your opinion on something. What if these coaches did not blow the AFCCG last year. Do you think the JAGS would have beating the iggles in the SB. And if yes and this year turned out the same as it is would you still be wanting to replace Blake?

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Umm, they fired the offensive coordinator. You do realize that means a new playbook next year, right? 
That's a done deal.
If they hire a guy worth his salt - he'll tailor the new book to his personnel better than what we've seen lately. 
Guess you'll have to trust Coughlin to sign off on the right guy. 

And I'm sorry, but you guys are seriously blind if you think these coordinators coming through Duval the past five years haven't had their backs against the wall having to mitigate the shortcomings of Blake freaking Bortles. 
He missed PLENTY of easy throws on the run too.  The smartest thing Hackett ever did was too immediately eliminate the quick out route. Blake couldn't complete it to save his hide, and he probably threw as many picks as completions on that route under Fisch and Olson. 
When that's your starting point as a coordinator  -- you're in for a challenge.

I agree to a point.

But..

He started eliminating the things that Blake did well too. Like throwing on 1st down or those short crossing routes. (Then again, the WRs cant cat so.) But Hackett had to be fired, he got into a rut that he never got himself out of. Like running LF into the back of the OL multiple times. From HC and down, this season has been a failure.

You seriously have to admit that if they would've just used what you have here, the little we have, that we would have won more games with Blake in there. Coaching and development has been horrible this year.

I will admit that after Corey Grant and LF were both out Hackett's ability to adjust his gameplan and playbook took a dive. He telegraphed the run and he could indeed have been a little smarter about using Blake's mobility and higher percentage throws. 

I don't think it would have made much difference.  Maybe we're at 5 wins. Six if Hackett pulled off a miraculous display of smoke and mirrors play calling.

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Honestly, it's all about the QB. Some players have really developed (MJD, Mathis, Yan, Jack, Telvin....) but when you consistently have a lower tier QB, everything else kind of looks bad.

I know.  If we only had Rodgers, Stafford, or Ryan....we would be set and in the playoffs.

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Creator of the Website in 2001/2002

www.KeepTomCoughlin.com

Umm, they fired the offensive coordinator. You do realize that means a new playbook next year, right? 
That's a done deal.
If they hire a guy worth his salt - he'll tailor the new book to his personnel better than what we've seen lately. 
Guess you'll have to trust Coughlin to sign off on the right guy. 

And I'm sorry, but you guys are seriously blind if you think these coordinators coming through Duval the past five years haven't had their backs against the wall having to mitigate the shortcomings of Blake freaking Bortles. 
He missed PLENTY of easy throws on the run too.  The smartest thing Hackett ever did was too immediately eliminate the quick out route. Blake couldn't complete it to save his hide, and he probably threw as many picks as completions on that route under Fisch and Olson. 
When that's your starting point as a coordinator  -- you're in for a challenge.

yes i know all that. The point was made if we drafted mahomes or watson instead of 4net they would be like they are now. I was just saying not with the coaches we had then. I hope to everything that we get a compitant OC and HC in here and a DC while your at it.


Let me ask your opinion on something. What if these coaches did not blow the AFCCG last year. Do you think the JAGS would have beating the iggles in the SB. And if yes and this year turned out the same as it is would you still be wanting to replace Blake?

No. That's not what people are saying. I'm saying the team would be better with Watson and Mahomes. Maybe Mahomes doesn't throw for 5,000 and 50 TDs here but he would be better than Blake. Not sure how you can watch the Chiefs and Texans play and think otherwise. You think Bortles goes to KC and immediately becomes some kind of accurate QB? 

You keep harping on coaching like it's all their fault. Was it their fault that Blake threw a ball off a guys helmet? Or that he throws into triple coverage? 

The fact is that Blake was given the chance to elevate the team when they really needed him and he fell flat on his face. He couldn't ride the defenses coattails this season. He had to actually be the franchise QB they paid him to be and he couldn't do it. Forgive me for wanting better QB play. It's not all Blakes fault but he's the QB and it always goes back to them.

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Honestly, it's all about the QB. Some players have really developed (MJD, Mathis, Yan, Jack, Telvin....) but when you consistently have a lower tier QB, everything else kind of looks bad.

I know.  If we only had Rodgers, Stafford, or Ryan....we would be set and in the playoffs.

A great QB gives you a better chance at consistent playoff appearances. How is that difficult to comprehend?

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Not difficult to comprehend. There were better QBs that make it to the playoffs and still lose BECAUSE IT IS NOT ALWAYS about the QB...

Adding a better QB doesn't guarantee consistent playoff appearances.... or a superbowl.

It is a TEAM game......that includes our inept coaches....

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Creator of the Website in 2001/2002

www.KeepTomCoughlin.com

I know one guy who's really good at player development- Nick Saban.

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I agree to a point.

But..

He started eliminating the things that Blake did well too. Like throwing on 1st down or those short crossing routes. (Then again, the WRs cant cat so.) But Hackett had to be fired, he got into a rut that he never got himself out of. Like running LF into the back of the OL multiple times. From HC and down, this season has been a failure.

You seriously have to admit that if they would've just used what you have here, the little we have, that we would have won more games with Blake in there. Coaching and development has been horrible this year.

I will admit that after Corey Grant and LF were both out Hackett's ability to adjust his gameplan and playbook took a dive. He telegraphed the run and he could indeed have been a little smarter about using Blake's mobility and higher percentage throws. 

I don't think it would have made much difference.  Maybe we're at 5 wins. Six if Hackett pulled off a miraculous display of smoke and mirrors play calling.

Personally I think we'd be at 5-7 (the first colts game, plus one or two from the last two weeks that kessler was starting in) wins if Caldwell had just cut Greene already, but that's life.

Anyone that thinks Mahomes or Watson couldn't succeed here doesn't understand football. With either of those guys the Jaguars probably would have won the Superbowl last year.

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I will admit that after Corey Grant and LF were both out Hackett's ability to adjust his gameplan and playbook took a dive. He telegraphed the run and he could indeed have been a little smarter about using Blake's mobility and higher percentage throws. 

I don't think it would have made much difference.  Maybe we're at 5 wins. Six if Hackett pulled off a miraculous display of smoke and mirrors play calling.

Personally I think we'd be at 5-7 (the first colts game, plus one or two from the last two weeks that kessler was starting in) wins if Caldwell had just cut Greene already, but that's life.

Anyone that thinks Mahomes or Watson couldn't succeed here doesn't understand football. With either of those guys the Jaguars probably would have won the Superbowl last year.

I don't know about all of that now. I don't think a rookie QB has ever started and won a Superbowl game. That's not to say it can't be done. But I just find it less than probable that we would have had that result last year. 

The other argument too is just the overall difference in the talent that was surrounding them last year and this year. Certainly doesn't hurt that they both have forward thinking head coaches on the offensive side of football steering them in the right direction. 

Marrone still thinks it's 1978.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

Personally I think we'd be at 5-7 (the first colts game, plus one or two from the last two weeks that kessler was starting in) wins if Caldwell had just cut Greene already, but that's life.

Anyone that thinks Mahomes or Watson couldn't succeed here doesn't understand football. With either of those guys the Jaguars probably would have won the Superbowl last year.

I don't know about all of that now. I don't think a rookie QB has ever started and won a Superbowl game. That's not to say it can't be done. But I just find it less than probable that we would have had that result last year. 

The other argument too is just the overall difference in the talent that was surrounding them last year and this year. Certainly doesn't hurt that they both have forward thinking head coaches on the offensive side of football steering them in the right direction. 

Marrone still thinks it's 1978.

It's never happened before, but with slightly better QB play the Jaguars go to the Superbowl last year, and I think they'd have gotten at least that from either of those two guys and one of the backs taken later in the draft.

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I don't know about all of that now. I don't think a rookie QB has ever started and won a Superbowl game. That's not to say it can't be done. But I just find it less than probable that we would have had that result last year. 

The other argument too is just the overall difference in the talent that was surrounding them last year and this year. Certainly doesn't hurt that they both have forward thinking head coaches on the offensive side of football steering them in the right direction. 

Marrone still thinks it's 1978.

It's never happened before, but with slightly better QB play the Jaguars go to the Superbowl last year, and I think they'd have gotten at least that from either of those two guys and one of the backs taken later in the draft.

The QB was not the reason they did not go to the SB. The coaches faith in the defense to stop the goat and to turn the offense into 3 runs and punt offense. plus one early whistle is why we did not goto the SB. And i firmly believe if we had played the iggles and foles our defense wich was eons better then the pats would have shut them down and we would have won it.

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It's never happened before, but with slightly better QB play the Jaguars go to the Superbowl last year, and I think they'd have gotten at least that from either of those two guys and one of the backs taken later in the draft.

The QB was not the reason they did not go to the SB. The coaches faith in the defense to stop the goat and to turn the offense into 3 runs and punt offense. plus one early whistle is why we did not goto the SB. And i firmly believe if we had played the iggles and foles our defense wich was eons better then the pats would have shut them down and we would have won it.

I don't think it was just faith in the defense, I think it was also fear of Bortles doing what he did against the Cardinals. If the coaches werent trying to hide the QB I think they would have done better in the second half of the AFC championship game.

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The QB was not the reason they did not go to the SB. The coaches faith in the defense to stop the goat and to turn the offense into 3 runs and punt offense. plus one early whistle is why we did not goto the SB. And i firmly believe if we had played the iggles and foles our defense wich was eons better then the pats would have shut them down and we would have won it.

I don't think it was just faith in the defense, I think it was also fear of Bortles doing what he did against the Cardinals. If the coaches werent trying to hide the QB I think they would have done better in the second half of the AFC championship game.

Very much this.  Look he had a nice 3 game stretch last year where it looked like people were wrong about him.  That is it in 5 years.  This is a 4th Quarter league and we lose close games.  Close games are won and lost by the QB in this heavy pass favored league.

http://www.nfl.com/player/blakebortles/2...eason=2017 (The "good year")

Look at last year's stats his rating when behind is awful.  Yes some of it is coaching but we don't have a QB.

Point of comparison …. here is Watson's stats

http://www.nfl.com/player/deshaunwatson/...ionalstats

In a QB driven league you have to be middle of the pack or better and your coaching has to make the best of the resources they have in place.  We have issues.

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Death of the Franchise - November 29, 2011

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The QB was not the reason they did not go to the SB. The coaches faith in the defense to stop the goat and to turn the offense into 3 runs and punt offense. plus one early whistle is why we did not goto the SB. And i firmly believe if we had played the iggles and foles our defense wich was eons better then the pats would have shut them down and we would have won it.

I don't think it was just faith in the defense, I think it was also fear of Bortles doing what he did against the Cardinals. If the coaches werent trying to hide the QB I think they would have done better in the second half of the AFC championship game.

so why didnt we do the same thing in pittsburg. they where not scared to let him throw it to keep the lead in that game. that argument that the coaches didnt trust BB is folly. They where scared, it just wasnt on offense it was on defense as well playing the soft prevent let brady cut us apart. the players even admited it.

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yet you still want to draft a QB this year? all the QB this year are lower tier.

You aren't going to hit on that narrow chance of getting your guy in the draft if you don't even try! 

And people say this every single year about the QB class. It's often inaccurate. 

Also - when your team is this far down the 7th level of QB Hell, you have to do something. Even a decent QB will be an upgrade.  I'd happily roll the dice on Grier or Haskins upgrading our QB situation.  Absolutely.

Since Brunell was traded, the Jags passed on Big Ben, Aaron Rodgers, Russell Wilson, Watson, Mahomes and now Lamar Jackson because they were not "Top Tier"

It's getting old - Herbert or Haskins might not look like HOF'ers today but you can't let the talent pass you buy every season.

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You aren't going to hit on that narrow chance of getting your guy in the draft if you don't even try! 

And people say this every single year about the QB class. It's often inaccurate. 

Also - when your team is this far down the 7th level of QB Hell, you have to do something. Even a decent QB will be an upgrade.  I'd happily roll the dice on Grier or Haskins upgrading our QB situation.  Absolutely.

Since Brunell was traded, the Jags passed on Big Ben, Aaron Rodgers, Russell Wilson, Watson, Mahomes and now Lamar Jackson because they were not "Top Tier"  

It's getting old - Herbert or Haskins might not look like HOF'ers today but you can't let the talent pass you buy every season.

I agree.  
Gotta swing the bat even if you don't think you can clear the fence. 
If they don't take a chance on one of the consensus top QBs in this draft, I'll lose some major faith in this F.O. 

I'm equally concerned with the decision making process and result of the OC search. 
I really hope that Coughlin/Caldwell are hinging Marrone's return on his willingness to be a bit more progressive with his OC selection and offensive scheme in general.

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Our discussion of current coaching staff’s ability to develop/maintain player talent going forward has focused on QB thus far, understandably.

If no changes are made on the offensive side I have zero confidence in QB, WR or OL coaches. Particularly QB and WR needs to be replaced. Not sure about TE because of injury. If Marrone stays, and I think he does because he is 50/50 in my book on successful seasons and no coach will want to come here if that is not good enough considering the QB he was saddled with, he will get to pick a new OC who will clean house. Crossing my fingers here.

Defensively we have a good product in terms of general skill sets. I personally think our defense struggled with intensity rather than preparation, understandably. With no light at the end of the tunnel in terms of everybody knowing Blake’s ship was sinking and nobody being able to talk about it, it is just human nature to do what you have got to do to survive without getting injured thus losing your livelihood. I think Marrone will stand pat on DC and maybe/hopefully upgrade booth/film analysis.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Since Brunell was traded, the Jags passed on Big Ben, Aaron Rodgers, Russell Wilson, Watson, Mahomes and now Lamar Jackson because they were not "Top Tier"  

It's getting old - Herbert or Haskins might not look like HOF'ers today but you can't let the talent pass you buy every season.

I agree.  
Gotta swing the bat even if you don't think you can clear the fence. 
If they don't take a chance on one of the consensus top QBs in this draft, I'll lose some major faith in this F.O. 

I'm equally concerned with the decision making process and result of the OC search. 
I really hope that Coughlin/Caldwell are hinging Marrone's return on his willingness to be a bit more progressive with his OC selection and offensive scheme in general.

IMO, you gotta stay away from Herbert, Haskins, and the kid from Duke. Look elsewhere. Stay far away from those 3.

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If you think I offended you, don't worry, I meant to. #facts 
  
#iamlegend