Some people are as far up Pelosis butt as others are up Trumps.

Amen. They are two sides of the same coin.

---

I think this is the good point where walls are needed they have been built i.e. urban areas.  This isn't what is being debated, this is about putting walls up in sparsely populated private land for the most part.  Trump started off saying he wanted a 30 ft concrete wall from sea to shining sea, now its 250 miles of steel slats he'll eventually be down to tens of miles of fencing and sell it as a promised fulfilled.  Be prepared for a National Emergency declaration, I highly doubt there will be another shutdown but hey if they want shoot themselves in the foot again have at it, the wall issue will be tied up in the court for years and nothing will get built.  This lays bare how cynical and political this was for Trump, if he came in on day 1 and put forth maximum effort he mostly likely could have broke the filibuster in the Senate by pressuring vulnerable candidates up for reelection in 2018 and built the wall.  The fact that he waited until another election and the house changed hands shows he is easily distracted and a terrible planner/strategist and/or never cared about the wall.

This is what is scary in America...people like you see it as simple as what politician won or lost. The general public and federal workers got punked thinking Pelosi is for "the people". Right. Also, to not even step foot on the field of play and take what would have been DHS funding of $5.7B for mixed methods of border security and trade that for $50 billion in shutdown costs (lower estimate). Ridiculous. What about the SOTU? What's the plan in 2 1/2 weeks? Both sides failed to do their job.

All Pelosi and the Dems did was reinforce the President ability and/or necessity to claim a National Emergency to get border security taken care of. In other words, there was always going to be some form of obstruction and no doubt lawsuits when he put forth the order. This is why he did not go straight to playing the National Emergency card. Now he can offer the most liberal of courts several solid reasons and show step by step in the process where Congress failed in their role for enabling said security. Justification if you will. Pelosi is now pigeonholed and must negotiate from a lower standing. So who really got played, punked, outwitted, or whatever term you want to use?

Exactly.

They wouldn't even vote on a bill to pay the coast guard that included absolutely nothing related to the border. GOP is on the right side of this, but they just need to relay that to the American people.

You realize he’s referring to you as well, right?

You make so many threads about Trump “winning”.

---

Some people are as far up Pelosis butt as others are up Trumps.

Something tells me Pelosi would enjoy that.  Heck,  maybe she needs it.  Do we have any volunteers willing to take one for the team?

Be still my beating heart ... How much will it cost me? I've been saving a lot of money since Trump became the Pres.   Goodbye Mrs. Piggy Bank, meet Mr. Hammer.

---

Exactly.

They wouldn't even vote on a bill to pay the coast guard that included absolutely nothing related to the border. GOP is on the right side of this, but they just need to relay that to the American people.

You realize he’s referring to you as well, right?

You make so many threads about Trump “winning”.

There is a lot to celebrate. I couldn't find the "Obama achieves 3% GDP thread". Otherwise, id just append to it.

---

Something tells me Pelosi would enjoy that.  Heck,  maybe she needs it.  Do we have any volunteers willing to take one for the team?

Be still my beating heart ... How much will it cost me? I've been saving a lot of money since Trump became the Pres.   Goodbye Mrs. Piggy Bank, meet Mr. Hammer.

Mrs. Piggy Bank is an odd nickname for Nancy Pelosi's booty.

---

Claymores are only a hundred bucks apiece.

And it would look awesome if you charged the border shouting, "There can be only one!"

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Be still my beating heart ... How much will it cost me? I've been saving a lot of money since Trump became the Pres.   Goodbye Mrs. Piggy Bank, meet Mr. Hammer.

Mrs. Piggy Bank is an odd nickname for Nancy Pelosi's booty.

Not when you plan on making a bunch of deposits.

---

This is what is scary in America...people like you see it as simple as what politician won or lost. The general public and federal workers got punked thinking Pelosi is for "the people". Right. Also, to not even step foot on the field of play and take what would have been DHS funding of $5.7B for mixed methods of border security and trade that for $50 billion in shutdown costs (lower estimate). Ridiculous. What about the SOTU? What's the plan in 2 1/2 weeks? Both sides failed to do their job.

All Pelosi and the Dems did was reinforce the President ability and/or necessity to claim a National Emergency to get border security taken care of. In other words, there was always going to be some form of obstruction and no doubt lawsuits when he put forth the order. This is why he did not go straight to playing the National Emergency card. Now he can offer the most liberal of courts several solid reasons and show step by step in the process where Congress failed in their role for enabling said security. Justification if you will. Pelosi is now pigeonholed and must negotiate from a lower standing. So who really got played, punked, outwitted, or whatever term you want to use?

LOL, what is so hilarious to me is that despite Trump personally saying he would be proud to shut the government down, literally saying he would take the blame, you don't blame him.  Despite the fact he signed nearly exactly the same bill that was offered before Christmas, you blame Pelosi?  Trump shut the government down period.  He didn't care about the workers, the man is nearly devoid of any empathy, wait were the workers for the shutdown or were they mostly democrats as he suggested both ways.   The house passed several bills piecemeal in the first week that would have funded every agency outside of DHS, McConnel didn't even takes those bills up because Trump indicated he wouldn't sign them so who really cared about federal workers?  In fact only after his approval ratings dropped and he disapproval ratings peaked, and the fact that he was taking political heat did he relent, he never cared about the workers, he even suggested that you could get groceries for free because they know you.    Negotiating during a shut down would have set a bad precedent, only encouraging more shut downs when he didn't get what he wanted. 

The SOTU was pure politics it always is, the president doesn't have a constitutional right to address a joint chamber of congress in person only to deliver the message in written form.  The speaker of the house has to put the resolution forward, Pelosi had every right not to, and it hurt Trump where it hurt (his vanity), and she didn't pay a political price for doing it hence making it a shrewd move, seemed to motivate him a little. 

I think you are operating from the assumption that Trump should get what he wants just because he wants it, but there is the legislative branch and they hold the purse strings, they are a coequal branch of government, you have to win them over period.   They have every right not to do so, and judging by the polls they are following the will of the people who elected them.  The onus is on him to get the votes, this isn't a dictatorship, not signing a budget or CR is on him, it has nothing to do with funding the wall.  Another shutdown will be on him.  I bet you were upset when McConnell didn't give Garland a hearing because of the same reason?

Legislative intransigence is not a reason to declare an emergency and because he has taken so long it will only hurt his already very weak argument.  The reason he hasn't declared a national emergency is because they know it will ultimately fail.  There is no emergency, illegal border crossing are at decades old lows.  Does your blind loyalty to him keep you from seeing how bad of a precedent this would be?  It would make an imperial presidency.  

What will happen in 2.5 weeks?  If Trumps wants to take another political beating he can shut down the government again, have at it, he'll get the blame again and I suspect the Senate would eventually go against him.   He's going to either come off something really big like DACA/TPS path to citizenship or sign a CR with increased border security funding and no wall and declare an emergency and get stopped in the courts.  He isn't going to win this one, the public is against him, and Pelosi holds too many of the cards.

The issue is your assumption and blindness to one side in defense of the other. I and many others don't relieve Trump of blame. They are all to blame. The issue is when you illogically assign blame to just him when there are obvious factors in play well before he gets involved. It is also intellectually dishonest to assign blame because of words used in an effort to negotiate. When did words start meaning more than actions? And no the bill signed was not the same as the bill offered in early December. That has been discussed and shown ad nauseum. The original bipartisan bill included $25B and yanked by Schumer. This is how we got in this mess! Trump eventually signing this current CR was not a matter of ratings or ego or whatever smoke and mirror you want to throw out there. It was a frustrated F-you to both sides of the aisle to get paychecks back in the hands of Federal workers. Enough was enough and the opportunity to negotiate and compromise on a bipartisan bill had run its course. Shutdown precedents is a lame excuse. This was not the first shutdown (Jimmy Carter(D), Reagan®, Bush®, Cinton(D), Obama(D), Trump®. Hey look, the only thing bipartisan related to shutdowns!

I agree, Pelosi refusing SOTU was purely political. Nothing of value in that move. She will forever be engrained in history as the first speaker to deny the POTUS a SOTU address in what had become the new norm of upholding the POTUS's constitutional responsibility of addressing Congress. Sure he could submit it in writing but don't you think the American people deserve to be intuned as well? It is one of a few times where all three branches of government are assembled together. Heck, even George Washington delivered his amongst a joint session.

I think you are operating on a strong assumption of your own, like these elected officials are doing the bidding of the American people. As evident on this board, the general public is somewhat clueless as to what is really going on in those chambers outside of what their favorite media outlet tells them. Few tune in to watch floor discussions or votes anymore. Few actually goe and read the Bills full text and amendments. This shutdown was a sad example of blind loyalty to party with a few defectors on both sides. There was blatant ignoring of Department funding requests, committee appropriations submittals/approvals, and executive appropriations reports/requests. All of the previously mentioned had border security funding to include mix methods (including barrier structures). This was not the sole request from the President or his pet project. This was at the request of Border Protection and their parent DHS. This funding request was a continuation from previously approved funding of barriers and sector protections that goes back multiple Presidencies. This is not a popularity issue and is pure obstructionism based on misinformation and partisanship. Probably still people thinking $5B+ is strictly for a wall. Their is no logical defense of how this shutdown occurred and the resist behavior of the House. In my opinion, DHS funding has been steadily rejected due to wanting an increase in ICE operations/funding. The wall is just an emotionally driven excuse. What does a Supreme Court nominee have to do with border security and government funding?

Do you understand that there is already multiple cases of precedents involving declaring a National Emergency in regards to immigration and/or border security? Probably not. The National Emergencies power is given to the President by Congress and there are currently upwards of 30 still in effect! If Congress doesn't want to give the POTUS this broad Constitutional statutory power, then they need to vote to revoke. I think most folks would be suprised to learn just what is available to the President when declaring a National Emergency. Want to scare yourself, you need to research PEADs or Presidential Emergency Action Documents. You might be able to find a few "cleared" archived documents that are usually Close Hold. As far as my blind loyalty, that has been and will be for the United States and the Constitution, not political party or figurehead.

Who holds the cards and who wins or loses is a matter of perspective. Unfortunately, most points of view are politicaly skewed and misinformed. Only the citizens suffer for the broad stupidity. Who would of thought the sovereignty and safety of our citizens was/is debatable?

https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/...ection.pdf

https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/...202019.pdf

https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/up...curity.pdf

---

LOL, what is so hilarious to me is that despite Trump personally saying he would be proud to shut the government down, literally saying he would take the blame, you don't blame him.  Despite the fact he signed nearly exactly the same bill that was offered before Christmas, you blame Pelosi?  Trump shut the government down period.  He didn't care about the workers, the man is nearly devoid of any empathy, wait were the workers for the shutdown or were they mostly democrats as he suggested both ways.   The house passed several bills piecemeal in the first week that would have funded every agency outside of DHS, McConnel didn't even takes those bills up because Trump indicated he wouldn't sign them so who really cared about federal workers?  In fact only after his approval ratings dropped and he disapproval ratings peaked, and the fact that he was taking political heat did he relent, he never cared about the workers, he even suggested that you could get groceries for free because they know you.    Negotiating during a shut down would have set a bad precedent, only encouraging more shut downs when he didn't get what he wanted. 

The SOTU was pure politics it always is, the president doesn't have a constitutional right to address a joint chamber of congress in person only to deliver the message in written form.  The speaker of the house has to put the resolution forward, Pelosi had every right not to, and it hurt Trump where it hurt (his vanity), and she didn't pay a political price for doing it hence making it a shrewd move, seemed to motivate him a little. 

I think you are operating from the assumption that Trump should get what he wants just because he wants it, but there is the legislative branch and they hold the purse strings, they are a coequal branch of government, you have to win them over period.   They have every right not to do so, and judging by the polls they are following the will of the people who elected them.  The onus is on him to get the votes, this isn't a dictatorship, not signing a budget or CR is on him, it has nothing to do with funding the wall.  Another shutdown will be on him.  I bet you were upset when McConnell didn't give Garland a hearing because of the same reason?

Legislative intransigence is not a reason to declare an emergency and because he has taken so long it will only hurt his already very weak argument.  The reason he hasn't declared a national emergency is because they know it will ultimately fail.  There is no emergency, illegal border crossing are at decades old lows.  Does your blind loyalty to him keep you from seeing how bad of a precedent this would be?  It would make an imperial presidency.  

What will happen in 2.5 weeks?  If Trumps wants to take another political beating he can shut down the government again, have at it, he'll get the blame again and I suspect the Senate would eventually go against him.   He's going to either come off something really big like DACA/TPS path to citizenship or sign a CR with increased border security funding and no wall and declare an emergency and get stopped in the courts.  He isn't going to win this one, the public is against him, and Pelosi holds too many of the cards.

The issue is your assumption and blindness to one side in defense of the other. I and many others don't relieve Trump of blame. They are all to blame. The issue is when you illogically assign blame to just him when there are obvious factors in play well before he gets involved. It is also intellectually dishonest to assign blame because of words used in an effort to negotiate. When did words start meaning more than actions? And no the bill signed was not the same as the bill offered in early December. That has been discussed and shown ad nauseum. The original bipartisan bill included $25B and yanked by Schumer. This is how we got in this mess! Trump eventually signing this current CR was not a matter of ratings or ego or whatever smoke and mirror you want to throw out there. It was a frustrated F-you to both sides of the aisle to get paychecks back in the hands of Federal workers. Enough was enough and the opportunity to negotiate and compromise on a bipartisan bill had run its course. Shutdown precedents is a lame excuse. This was not the first shutdown (Jimmy Carter(D), Reagan®, Bush®, Cinton(D), Obama(D), Trump®. Hey look, the only thing bipartisan related to shutdowns!

I agree, Pelosi refusing SOTU was purely political. Nothing of value in that move. She will forever be engrained in history as the first speaker to deny the POTUS a SOTU address in what had become the new norm of upholding the POTUS's constitutional responsibility of addressing Congress. Sure he could submit it in writing but don't you think the American people deserve to be intuned as well? It is one of a few times where all three branches of government are assembled together. Heck, even George Washington delivered his amongst a joint session.

I think you are operating on a strong assumption of your own, like these elected officials are doing the bidding of the American people. As evident on this board, the general public is somewhat clueless as to what is really going on in those chambers outside of what their favorite media outlet tells them. Few tune in to watch floor discussions or votes anymore. Few actually goe and read the Bills full text and amendments. This shutdown was a sad example of blind loyalty to party with a few defectors on both sides. There was blatant ignoring of Department funding requests, committee appropriations submittals/approvals, and executive appropriations reports/requests. All of the previously mentioned had border security funding to include mix methods (including barrier structures). This was not the sole request from the President or his pet project. This was at the request of Border Protection and their parent DHS. This funding request was a continuation from previously approved funding of barriers and sector protections that goes back multiple Presidencies. This is not a popularity issue and is pure obstructionism based on misinformation and partisanship. Probably still people thinking $5B+ is strictly for a wall. Their is no logical defense of how this shutdown occurred and the resist behavior of the House. In my opinion, DHS funding has been steadily rejected due to wanting an increase in ICE operations/funding. The wall is just an emotionally driven excuse. What does a Supreme Court nominee have to do with border security and government funding?

Do you understand that there is already multiple cases of precedents involving declaring a National Emergency in regards to immigration and/or border security? Probably not. The National Emergencies power is given to the President by Congress and there are currently upwards of 30 still in effect! If Congress doesn't want to give the POTUS this broad Constitutional statutory power, then they need to vote to revoke. I think most folks would be suprised to learn just what is available to the President when declaring a National Emergency. Want to scare yourself, you need to research PEADs or Presidential Emergency Action Documents. You might be able to find a few "cleared" archived documents that are usually Close Hold. As far as my blind loyalty, that has been and will be for the United States and the Constitution, not political party or figurehead.

Who holds the cards and who wins or loses is a matter of perspective. Unfortunately, most points of view are politicaly skewed and misinformed. Only the citizens suffer for the broad stupidity. Who would of thought the sovereignty and safety of our citizens was/is debatable?

https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/...ection.pdf

https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/...202019.pdf

https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/up...curity.pdf

If there is such an emergency and such precedent, then what is the hold up?  Why wait if this is so straightforward, common, and pressing?  Every minute of delay just bolsters the argument that there isn't an emergency, if it is so easy why shut down the government for 35+ days?  if what you assert is true then the presidents actions are baffling and illogical.   This board is not a complete reflection of society or the opinion of the country which after numerous polls has shown consistently that a majority of the country are against the wall, pick a time, a year ago, before the shutdown and after, still a majority oppose the wall.   You can blame a lack of an immigration deal on all parties involved, I guess even though republicans have repeatedly been the ones to tank the big bipartisan immigration bills out of appeasement to the base, however, this shutdown was 100% on Trump.  He could have easily of signed the CR in December and continued to make his public push.  He thought the shutdown gave him leverage for some idiotic reason when in fact it has weakened him politically.  Negotiating during a shutdown would have just invited more down the road.   This is 100% about a wall ok maybe just 99%, if he would have dropped the wall pre condition he could easily have gotten the money for other border security measures and investments.  Its quite incredulous to suggest that the wall isn't the crux of the matter, it was heavily sold on the campaign, he repeatedly suggested that without it we will be overrun by drugs and crime.  Build the wall and crime will fall right?  

BTW Pelosi didn't prevent him completely from giving the SOTU, just during the shutdown, and low and behold its back on.  She'll go down in history all right, as the first Speaker to win a shutdown and the one who made Trump cave after the longest shutdown in history.

---

The issue is your assumption and blindness to one side in defense of the other. I and many others don't relieve Trump of blame. They are all to blame. The issue is when you illogically assign blame to just him when there are obvious factors in play well before he gets involved. It is also intellectually dishonest to assign blame because of words used in an effort to negotiate. When did words start meaning more than actions? And no the bill signed was not the same as the bill offered in early December. That has been discussed and shown ad nauseum. The original bipartisan bill included $25B and yanked by Schumer. This is how we got in this mess! Trump eventually signing this current CR was not a matter of ratings or ego or whatever smoke and mirror you want to throw out there. It was a frustrated F-you to both sides of the aisle to get paychecks back in the hands of Federal workers. Enough was enough and the opportunity to negotiate and compromise on a bipartisan bill had run its course. Shutdown precedents is a lame excuse. This was not the first shutdown (Jimmy Carter(D), Reagan®, Bush®, Cinton(D), Obama(D), Trump®. Hey look, the only thing bipartisan related to shutdowns!

I agree, Pelosi refusing SOTU was purely political. Nothing of value in that move. She will forever be engrained in history as the first speaker to deny the POTUS a SOTU address in what had become the new norm of upholding the POTUS's constitutional responsibility of addressing Congress. Sure he could submit it in writing but don't you think the American people deserve to be intuned as well? It is one of a few times where all three branches of government are assembled together. Heck, even George Washington delivered his amongst a joint session.

I think you are operating on a strong assumption of your own, like these elected officials are doing the bidding of the American people. As evident on this board, the general public is somewhat clueless as to what is really going on in those chambers outside of what their favorite media outlet tells them. Few tune in to watch floor discussions or votes anymore. Few actually goe and read the Bills full text and amendments. This shutdown was a sad example of blind loyalty to party with a few defectors on both sides. There was blatant ignoring of Department funding requests, committee appropriations submittals/approvals, and executive appropriations reports/requests. All of the previously mentioned had border security funding to include mix methods (including barrier structures). This was not the sole request from the President or his pet project. This was at the request of Border Protection and their parent DHS. This funding request was a continuation from previously approved funding of barriers and sector protections that goes back multiple Presidencies. This is not a popularity issue and is pure obstructionism based on misinformation and partisanship. Probably still people thinking $5B+ is strictly for a wall. Their is no logical defense of how this shutdown occurred and the resist behavior of the House. In my opinion, DHS funding has been steadily rejected due to wanting an increase in ICE operations/funding. The wall is just an emotionally driven excuse. What does a Supreme Court nominee have to do with border security and government funding?

Do you understand that there is already multiple cases of precedents involving declaring a National Emergency in regards to immigration and/or border security? Probably not. The National Emergencies power is given to the President by Congress and there are currently upwards of 30 still in effect! If Congress doesn't want to give the POTUS this broad Constitutional statutory power, then they need to vote to revoke. I think most folks would be suprised to learn just what is available to the President when declaring a National Emergency. Want to scare yourself, you need to research PEADs or Presidential Emergency Action Documents. You might be able to find a few "cleared" archived documents that are usually Close Hold. As far as my blind loyalty, that has been and will be for the United States and the Constitution, not political party or figurehead.

Who holds the cards and who wins or loses is a matter of perspective. Unfortunately, most points of view are politicaly skewed and misinformed. Only the citizens suffer for the broad stupidity. Who would of thought the sovereignty and safety of our citizens was/is debatable?

https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/...ection.pdf

https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/...202019.pdf

https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/up...curity.pdf

If there is such an emergency and such precedent, then what is the hold up?  Why wait if this is so straightforward, common, and pressing?  Every minute of delay just bolsters the argument that there isn't an emergency, if it is so easy why shut down the government for 35+ days?  if what you assert is true then the presidents actions are baffling and illogical.   This board is not a complete reflection of society or the opinion of the country which after numerous polls has shown consistently that a majority of the country are against the wall, pick a time, a year ago, before the shutdown and after, still a majority oppose the wall.   You can blame a lack of an immigration deal on all parties involved, I guess even though republicans have repeatedly been the ones to tank the big bipartisan immigration bills out of appeasement to the base, however, this shutdown was 100% on Trump.  He could have easily of signed the CR in December and continued to make his public push.  He thought the shutdown gave him leverage for some idiotic reason when in fact it has weakened him politically.  Negotiating during a shutdown would have just invited more down the road.   This is 100% about a wall ok maybe just 99%, if he would have dropped the wall pre condition he could easily have gotten the money for other border security measures and investments.  Its quite incredulous to suggest that the wall isn't the crux of the matter, it was heavily sold on the campaign, he repeatedly suggested that without it we will be overrun by drugs and crime.  Build the wall and crime will fall right?  

BTW Pelosi didn't prevent him completely from giving the SOTU, just during the shutdown, and low and behold its back on.  She'll go down in history all right, as the first Speaker to win a shutdown and the one who made Trump cave after the longest shutdown in history.

Again, you continue to look at this from a win/loss standpoint. The president has a responsibility to 325M people and Pelosi has a responsibility to 0 people. He has said a million times that he does not want to use his constitutional powers to build the wall and that he simply wants congress to DO THEIR JOB. Congress is not doing their job. That is the main issue here, but please continue to look at them as "winning".

---

If there is such an emergency and such precedent, then what is the hold up?  Why wait if this is so straightforward, common, and pressing?  Every minute of delay just bolsters the argument that there isn't an emergency, if it is so easy why shut down the government for 35+ days?  if what you assert is true then the presidents actions are baffling and illogical.   This board is not a complete reflection of society or the opinion of the country which after numerous polls has shown consistently that a majority of the country are against the wall, pick a time, a year ago, before the shutdown and after, still a majority oppose the wall.   You can blame a lack of an immigration deal on all parties involved, I guess even though republicans have repeatedly been the ones to tank the big bipartisan immigration bills out of appeasement to the base, however, this shutdown was 100% on Trump.  He could have easily of signed the CR in December and continued to make his public push.  He thought the shutdown gave him leverage for some idiotic reason when in fact it has weakened him politically.  Negotiating during a shutdown would have just invited more down the road.   This is 100% about a wall ok maybe just 99%, if he would have dropped the wall pre condition he could easily have gotten the money for other border security measures and investments.  Its quite incredulous to suggest that the wall isn't the crux of the matter, it was heavily sold on the campaign, he repeatedly suggested that without it we will be overrun by drugs and crime.  Build the wall and crime will fall right?  

BTW Pelosi didn't prevent him completely from giving the SOTU, just during the shutdown, and low and behold its back on.  She'll go down in history all right, as the first Speaker to win a shutdown and the one who made Trump cave after the longest shutdown in history.

Again, you continue to look at this from a win/loss standpoint. The president has a responsibility to 325M people and Pelosi has a responsibility to 0 people. He has said a million times that he does not want to use his constitutional powers to build the wall and that he simply wants congress to DO THEIR JOB. Congress is not doing their job. That is the main issue here, but please continue to look at them as "winning".

Trump lost let that sink in, he repeatedly asserted that he wouldn't open the government without the 5.7B for his border wall, he said he would go on for months or even years, in the end he caved and walked away politically weakened.  That's what a loss is politically.  Its your opinion that congress isn't doing their job, I would argue they are being that the wall is opposed by a majority of people in the country.  Separation of powers, congress holds the purse strings, its their prerogative to pass bills as they see fit, as they see is best for the country.  Pelosi answers to the same 325M people.  Its funny in the Trumpian mindset, people are only doing their jobs when they are doing the will of Trump, majority of the public be damned.  Its rich coming from a guy whose avatar is Trump with a crown on, that aptly describes the mindset.  You honestly think that if Trump thought he could build the wall without Congress it wouldn't have already been done?  You think he cares about the institutions of the country and presidential overreach?  The only reason he hasn't declared an emergency is because he knows that it will get shot down 5 ways before it gets off the ground.  He knows that an emergency declaration won't get the wall built, the wall is not gonna get built unless he comes off citizenship for DACA/TPS which we know isn't gonna happen.  

He's gonna lose on the wall, he lost on Obamacare repeal what happened to all that winning he promised?  Must have been like Mexico paying for the wall.

---

Again, you continue to look at this from a win/loss standpoint. The president has a responsibility to 325M people and Pelosi has a responsibility to 0 people. He has said a million times that he does not want to use his constitutional powers to build the wall and that he simply wants congress to DO THEIR JOB. Congress is not doing their job. That is the main issue here, but please continue to look at them as "winning".

Trump lost let that sink in, he repeatedly asserted that he wouldn't open the government without the 5.7B for his border wall, he said he would go on for months or even years, in the end he caved and walked away politically weakened.  That's what a loss is politically.  Its your opinion that congress isn't doing their job, I would argue they are being that the wall is opposed by a majority of people in the country.  Separation of powers, congress holds the purse strings, its their prerogative to pass bills as they see fit, as they see is best for the country.  Pelosi answers to the same 325M people.  Its funny in the Trumpian mindset, people are only doing their jobs when they are doing the will of Trump, majority of the public be damned.  Its rich coming from a guy whose avatar is Trump with a crown on, that aptly describes the mindset.  You honestly think that if Trump thought he could build the wall without Congress it wouldn't have already been done?  You think he cares about the institutions of the country and presidential overreach?  The only reason he hasn't declared an emergency is because he knows that it will get shot down 5 ways before it gets off the ground.  He knows that an emergency declaration won't get the wall built, the wall is not gonna get built unless he comes off citizenship for DACA/TPS which we know isn't gonna happen.  

He's gonna lose on the wall, he lost on Obamacare repeal what happened to all that winning he promised?  Must have been like Mexico paying for the wall.

Do you not consider the current state of the economy as a Trump success?

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Trump lost let that sink in, he repeatedly asserted that he wouldn't open the government without the 5.7B for his border wall, he said he would go on for months or even years, in the end he caved and walked away politically weakened.  That's what a loss is politically.  Its your opinion that congress isn't doing their job, I would argue they are being that the wall is opposed by a majority of people in the country.  Separation of powers, congress holds the purse strings, its their prerogative to pass bills as they see fit, as they see is best for the country.  Pelosi answers to the same 325M people.  Its funny in the Trumpian mindset, people are only doing their jobs when they are doing the will of Trump, majority of the public be damned.  Its rich coming from a guy whose avatar is Trump with a crown on, that aptly describes the mindset.  You honestly think that if Trump thought he could build the wall without Congress it wouldn't have already been done?  You think he cares about the institutions of the country and presidential overreach?  The only reason he hasn't declared an emergency is because he knows that it will get shot down 5 ways before it gets off the ground.  He knows that an emergency declaration won't get the wall built, the wall is not gonna get built unless he comes off citizenship for DACA/TPS which we know isn't gonna happen.  

He's gonna lose on the wall, he lost on Obamacare repeal what happened to all that winning he promised?  Must have been like Mexico paying for the wall.

Do you not consider the current state of the economy as a Trump success?

No, I don't.  President's effect on the economy is one of the most overstated.  The dynamics of the market and global economy  dwarf in effect.  When growth goes back to 2% this year are you going to credit that to him?  Or blame interest rates and China's slowing growth?

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Do you not consider the current state of the economy as a Trump success?

No, I don't.  President's effect on the economy is one of the most overstated.  The dynamics of the market and global economy  dwarf in effect.  When growth goes back to 2% this year are you going to credit that to him?  Or blame interest rates and China's slowing growth?

So its just a coincidence that GDP happened to surpass 3% for the first time since 2005 and has nothing to do with the removal of crippling regulations by the administration?

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If there is such an emergency and such precedent, then what is the hold up?  Why wait if this is so straightforward, common, and pressing?  Every minute of delay just bolsters the argument that there isn't an emergency, if it is so easy why shut down the government for 35+ days?  if what you assert is true then the presidents actions are baffling and illogical.   This board is not a complete reflection of society or the opinion of the country which after numerous polls has shown consistently that a majority of the country are against the wall, pick a time, a year ago, before the shutdown and after, still a majority oppose the wall.   You can blame a lack of an immigration deal on all parties involved, I guess even though republicans have repeatedly been the ones to tank the big bipartisan immigration bills out of appeasement to the base, however, this shutdown was 100% on Trump.  He could have easily of signed the CR in December and continued to make his public push.  He thought the shutdown gave him leverage for some idiotic reason when in fact it has weakened him politically.  Negotiating during a shutdown would have just invited more down the road.   This is 100% about a wall ok maybe just 99%, if he would have dropped the wall pre condition he could easily have gotten the money for other border security measures and investments.  Its quite incredulous to suggest that the wall isn't the crux of the matter, it was heavily sold on the campaign, he repeatedly suggested that without it we will be overrun by drugs and crime.  Build the wall and crime will fall right?  

BTW Pelosi didn't prevent him completely from giving the SOTU, just during the shutdown, and low and behold its back on.  She'll go down in history all right, as the first Speaker to win a shutdown and the one who made Trump cave after the longest shutdown in history.

Again, you continue to look at this from a win/loss standpoint. The president has a responsibility to 325M people and Pelosi has a responsibility to 0 people. He has said a million times that he does not want to use his constitutional powers to build the wall and that he simply wants congress to DO THEIR JOB. Congress is not doing their job. That is the main issue here, but please continue to look at them as "winning".

Didn’t you create a thread all about Trump “winning”?

Try taking your own advice here.

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Again, you continue to look at this from a win/loss standpoint. The president has a responsibility to 325M people and Pelosi has a responsibility to 0 people. He has said a million times that he does not want to use his constitutional powers to build the wall and that he simply wants congress to DO THEIR JOB. Congress is not doing their job. That is the main issue here, but please continue to look at them as "winning".

Didn’t you create a thread all about Trump “winning”?

Try taking your own advice here.

You are a little obsessed with my thread creation. I thought you were leaving the political forum for good? Can't stay away, huh?

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Didn’t you create a thread all about Trump “winning”?

Try taking your own advice here.

You are a little obsessed with my thread creation. I thought you were leaving the political forum for good? Can't stay away, huh?

Just showing how you’re a hypocrite. That’s all.

I never said I would leave for good or anything event remotely close to that. I come here to basically see you twist yourself in a knot trying to defend every single action Trump takes.

“Trump is winning!”


*conceeds on his staredown with Pelosi*

“It’s not about winning and losing guys!”

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If there is such an emergency and such precedent, then what is the hold up?  Why wait if this is so straightforward, common, and pressing?  Every minute of delay just bolsters the argument that there isn't an emergency, if it is so easy why shut down the government for 35+ days?  if what you assert is true then the presidents actions are baffling and illogical.   This board is not a complete reflection of society or the opinion of the country which after numerous polls has shown consistently that a majority of the country are against the wall, pick a time, a year ago, before the shutdown and after, still a majority oppose the wall.   You can blame a lack of an immigration deal on all parties involved, I guess even though republicans have repeatedly been the ones to tank the big bipartisan immigration bills out of appeasement to the base, however, this shutdown was 100% on Trump.  He could have easily of signed the CR in December and continued to make his public push.  He thought the shutdown gave him leverage for some idiotic reason when in fact it has weakened him politically.  Negotiating during a shutdown would have just invited more down the road.   This is 100% about a wall ok maybe just 99%, if he would have dropped the wall pre condition he could easily have gotten the money for other border security measures and investments.  Its quite incredulous to suggest that the wall isn't the crux of the matter, it was heavily sold on the campaign, he repeatedly suggested that without it we will be overrun by drugs and crime.  Build the wall and crime will fall right?  

BTW Pelosi didn't prevent him completely from giving the SOTU, just during the shutdown, and low and behold its back on.  She'll go down in history all right, as the first Speaker to win a shutdown and the one who made Trump cave after the longest shutdown in history.

Again, you continue to look at this from a win/loss standpoint. The president has a responsibility to 325M people and Pelosi has a responsibility to 0 people. He has said a million times that he does not want to use his constitutional powers to build the wall and that he simply wants congress to DO THEIR JOB. Congress is not doing their job. That is the main issue here, but please continue to look at them as "winning".

Congress' job is not to do the President's bidding. The legislative branch exists as a check on executive powers specifically for cases like this, where the President wants a fence and over half of the country thinks we have better things to do with our time and money than keep mule deer from walking across an imaginary line forty miles east of Antelope Wells.

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You are a little obsessed with my thread creation. I thought you were leaving the political forum for good? Can't stay away, huh?

Just showing how you’re a hypocrite. That’s all.

I never said I would leave for good or anything event remotely close to that. I come here to basically see you twist yourself in a knot trying to defend every single action Trump takes.

“Trump is winning!”


*conceeds on his staredown with Pelosi*

“It’s not about winning and losing guys!”

Seeing as the economy is typically the most important issue for a voter, he IS winning in that aspect. A win for a POTUS is a win for the country.

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Again, you continue to look at this from a win/loss standpoint. The president has a responsibility to 325M people and Pelosi has a responsibility to 0 people. He has said a million times that he does not want to use his constitutional powers to build the wall and that he simply wants congress to DO THEIR JOB. Congress is not doing their job. That is the main issue here, but please continue to look at them as "winning".

Congress' job is not to do the President's bidding. The legislative branch exists as a check on executive powers specifically for cases like this, where the President wants a fence and over half of the country thinks we have better things to do with our time and money than keep mule deer from walking across an imaginary line forty miles east of Antelope Wells.

In 2 years, lets revisit this and talk about what congress has accomplished.

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The fact of the matter is Nancy Pelosi is playing politics (as usual) rather than doing her duty.  There is a crisis in areas of the southern border that needs to be addressed and is part of her Oath of Office that she took many, many years ago when she was first elected to Congress (she has been a member of The House longer than many of our board members have been alive).

Many democrats and liberals in general call the need for a wall (or some kind of barrier) and security on our southern border "racist" or "immoral".  The fact of the matter is it is needed for the defense of our country and citizens.  The flow of drugs, weapons and human trafficking across the border is astounding.  Much of the border is controlled by drug cartels more so than law enforcement or military.

True story.  My father has a friend that owns a cattle ranch along the Arizona/Mexico border.  He said that it used to be a few illegals would show up on his property near his house and ask if they could do some work in exchange for food.  He would feed them, give them water and let them work on his ranch.  He would give them "care packages" of food to take with them and they would go back across the border without stealing or destroying property.  He says that since around the early 2000's or so it all started to change and now he ends up finding cut open fences, broken water pipes and trash all over his property.  He has had vehicles, several different items and even horses stolen.  He says the biggest problem is the human and drug smugglers that come across his ranch.

The bottom line is that the funding should be included in the budget to increase barriers (a wall) along the border as well as increase the number of border patrol agents in the area.  Had that been included in the first place the shutdown would have never occurred and the State of The Union speech would have happened as scheduled.

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.