I thought 2017 would have showed you the error of using logic like that to determine how good you think prospect is.

Also Haskins is projected to go top 5 and likely will be taken #2 or #3 if the Raiders don't fancy moving back. Only reason he isn't the de facto #1 in mocks is because A) The 49ers don't need a QB and B) It's early in draft season and they haven't expressed an interest in moving yet. 

If the jaguars moved to #1 he'd be the projected #1 pick. If they were only able to move to #2 he'd still be just as good as a prospect, it just means the 49ers wanted to stay pat and take their guy regardless of the trade bait.


Yes I think you're absolutely right on the decision making part

The point I'm trying to make here, is that there's a good chance the best QB of the class isn't Haskins - just the same way the best QB of the class wasn't Trubisky.

What we're seeing with the lack of strength at the top of this QB class, is that other positions are of much greater quality and value.  That doesn't happen when there's a quality franchise QB candidate at the top.  No, the eventual best of class aren't always there - which is my point.

Sure, Haskins could be the first off the board.  But like the class you keep pointing back to, the best of class could actually be taken later.  That's the danger in QB classes that aren't as strong as others.  Who "will be" the QB(s) to take aren't as clear.

I'm not sure where you're seeing this lock for top 5.  There's MUCH more defensive value there with the pass rushers and DL.  Sure, there could be someone willing to get ahead of the Giants, but that's not where the value is slotting him.  IIRC, he was initially advised top 20 and later it was narrowed to top 10 (after the news Herbert was staying in school.)  Any QB the Giants may take is stretching the value of these QBs, but that's not unusual with a shallow class like this.

Well that's a slightly different argument to "Haskins isn't projected to go #1 overall so he probably isn't a truly good franchise prospect". In 2017 you said Watson mustn't actually be a franchise QB prospect because he wasn't going to go #1 overall too. The same flaws in that process apply to Haskins.  

Its always possible that the best QB is not the first taken. Based on this class though I'd be willing to bet it's Haskins, especially if Kyler doesn't commit fully. That can happen in every QB class though, even the really strong ones.  

Haskins is a lock for top 5 by virtue of where all the QB needy teams are. History show you have to jump up to land the #1 QB in the draft , if the Jags want him, they're going top 5, if the giants want him, they are going top 5, if any teams below them want him, they are going top 5 etc etc.  

Yeah the draft advisory class are generally conservative with what they tell prospects but all I saw was both Herbert and Haskins got first round grades. Wasn't aware they publicly announced the pick range too.

---

It's interesting that teams aren't pulling their hair out to land such an amazing QB......

Should we be using similar logic to look down on Haskins if he's not projected #1 overall (as most top of class high caliber QB prospects are?)

---

Foles may not end up here.

But the theme developing in this thread is a distrust in the selections/decisions we've made.

Whether or not we land Foles... that second part is what concerns me most.

@Are you new here?@

Other than Ramsey, I don't know any first rounder that fans have been popping bottles and celebrating.

---

If we don't go after Foles, we need to go after Antonio Brown imo to give the rookie the best chance to succeed

---

Good grief.

---

If we don't go after Foles, we need to go after Antonio Brown imo to give the rookie the best chance to succeed

What do you think the odds are that Tom Coughlin will go after an overpriced free agent diva receiver who was reportedly part of a locker room schizm?

I can't ever see that happening here. 

If the rookie is worth his salt he can produce with a marginally improved and healthy Jags O-line + Lee/Westbrook/Chark + a new TE or two.

---

If we don't go after Foles, we need to go after Antonio Brown imo to give the rookie the best chance to succeed

What do you think the odds are that Tom Coughlin will go after an overpriced free agent diva receiver who was reportedly part of a locker room schizm?

I can't ever see that happening here. 

If the rookie is worth his salt he can produce with a marginally improved and healthy Jags O-line  +  Lee/Westbrook/Chark + a new TE or two.

The odds are low imo but what do you mean overpriced?  What ever rookie or QB we get, having the best WR in the league and one of the best ever would be much better for the rookie or who ever than not.

---

If we don't go after Foles, we need to go after Antonio Brown imo to give the rookie the best chance to succeed

What do you think the odds are that Tom Coughlin will go after an overpriced free agent diva receiver who was reportedly part of a locker room schizm?

I can't ever see that happening here. 

If the rookie is worth his salt he can produce with a marginally improved and healthy Jags O-line  +  Lee/Westbrook/Chark + a new TE or two.

Totally agree. AB is good but he's a product of Big Ben. Have you seen ABs stats without Ben? They're not good.

Haskins with a healthy Oline (they allowed 24 sacks in 2017 without Norwell)+ healthy Lee/Westbrook/Chark/John Brown? and then some new TE blood? I love it.

---

Ramsey knows what's up

https://fansided.com/2019/02/12/antonio-...en-ramsey/

---

What do you think the odds are that Tom Coughlin will go after an overpriced free agent diva receiver who was reportedly part of a locker room schizm?

I can't ever see that happening here. 

If the rookie is worth his salt he can produce with a marginally improved and healthy Jags O-line  +  Lee/Westbrook/Chark + a new TE or two.

The odds are low imo but what do you mean overpriced?  What ever rookie or QB we get, having the best WR in the league and one of the best ever would be much better for the rookie or who ever than not.

What do I mean overpriced??  

The Jags are currently cutting and restructuring players in order to set themselves up to sign Ramsey to a deal worth 90 million dollars or more  - and Ngakoue to a deal worth very likely even more than that. 

If they add a receiver it will be via draft and/or mid-tier free agency. They won't be paying a 30 year 20 million dollars or more next year at the WR spot.

---

Ramsey knows what's up

https://fansided.com/2019/02/12/antonio-...en-ramsey/

He'd be wise to back off of that stance as AB's salary would just cut into the deal he'll be holding out for in this offseason or the next.

---

The odds are low imo but what do you mean overpriced?  What ever rookie or QB we get, having the best WR in the league and one of the best ever would be much better for the rookie or who ever than not.

What do I mean overpriced??  

The Jags are currently cutting and restructuring players in order to set themselves up to sign Ramsey to a deal worth 90 million dollars or more  - and Ngakoue to a deal worth very likely even more than that. 

If they add a receiver it will be via draft and/or mid-tier free agency. They won't be paying a 30 year 20 million dollars or more next year at the WR spot.

---

Ramsey knows what's up

https://fansided.com/2019/02/12/antonio-...en-ramsey/

He'd be wise to back off of that stance as AB's salary would just cut into the deal he'll be holding out for in this offseason or the next.

Meh other big contracts will be coming off the books when it's time to sign those guys next year.  Bortles, Campbell, Parnell, Gipson, Dareus, Hyde etc.  Lee as well if need be. Ramsey knows we are good cap wise

---

The odds are low imo but what do you mean overpriced?  What ever rookie or QB we get, having the best WR in the league and one of the best ever would be much better for the rookie or who ever than not.

What do I mean overpriced??  

The Jags are currently cutting and restructuring players in order to set themselves up to sign Ramsey to a deal worth 90 million dollars or more  - and Ngakoue to a deal worth very likely even more than that. 

If they add a receiver it will be via draft and/or mid-tier free agency. They won't be paying a 30 year 20 million dollars or more next year at the WR spot.

---

Ramsey knows what's up

https://fansided.com/2019/02/12/antonio-...en-ramsey/

He'd be wise to back off of that stance as AB's salary would just cut into the deal he'll be holding out for in this offseason or the next.

Are you expecting AB to hold out for a new contract if he is traded?

If a team trades for Brown, it will owe him ~ $36.4 million over a three-year deal, $12.6 million for the 2019 season or $14.1 million if the new team has to pay the roster bonus. He’s due only $23.8 million (or $11.9 million per year) for the 2020 and 2021 seasons. https://ftw.usatoday.com/2019/02/steeler...-cap-space

Jags probably shouldn't do it, but it wont cost $20 million/year.

---

What do I mean overpriced??  

The Jags are currently cutting and restructuring players in order to set themselves up to sign Ramsey to a deal worth 90 million dollars or more  - and Ngakoue to a deal worth very likely even more than that. 

If they add a receiver it will be via draft and/or mid-tier free agency. They won't be paying a 30 year 20 million dollars or more next year at the WR spot.

---

He'd be wise to back off of that stance as AB's salary would just cut into the deal he'll be holding out for in this offseason or the next.

Are you expecting AB to hold out for a new contract if he is traded?

If a team trades for Brown, it will owe him ~ $36.4 million over a three-year deal, $12.6 million for the 2019 season or $14.1 million if the new team has to pay the roster bonus. He’s due only $23.8 million (or $11.9 million per year) for the 2020 and 2021 seasons. https://ftw.usatoday.com/2019/02/steeler...-cap-space

Jags probably shouldn't do it, but it wont cost $20 million/year.

If the trading team assumes Brown's contract with its current structure, then his cap hit in 2019 is $22 million.
EDIT:
nevermind - I see how he'd only cost 14 million now. Jags wouldn't have to pay the prorated bonus and restructure proration.

Still too much for me for a guy turning 31 this summer.

I also can certainly see AB being far from a willing participant in any trade that ends in him playing cheaply in 2019.

---

Are you expecting AB to hold out for a new contract if he is traded?

If a team trades for Brown, it will owe him ~ $36.4 million over a three-year deal, $12.6 million for the 2019 season or $14.1 million if the new team has to pay the roster bonus. He’s due only $23.8 million (or $11.9 million per year) for the 2020 and 2021 seasons. https://ftw.usatoday.com/2019/02/steeler...-cap-space

Jags probably shouldn't do it, but it wont cost $20 million/year.

If the trading team assumes Brown's contract with its current structure, then his cap hit in 2019 is $22 million.
EDIT:
nevermind - I see how he'd only cost 14 million now. Jags wouldn't have to pay the prorated bonus and restructure proration.

Still too much for me for a guy turning 31 this summer.

I  also can certainly see AB being far from a willing participant in any trade that ends in him playing cheaply in 2019.

You still think hes over priced for the best WR in the game?

---

If the trading team assumes Brown's contract with its current structure, then his cap hit in 2019 is $22 million.
EDIT:
nevermind - I see how he'd only cost 14 million now. Jags wouldn't have to pay the prorated bonus and restructure proration.

Still too much for me for a guy turning 31 this summer.

I  also can certainly see AB being far from a willing participant in any trade that ends in him playing cheaply in 2019.

You still think hes over priced for the best WR in the game?

I’d would take Julio, Adams, and OBJ over AB. I’d also take Juju over him as well.

AB is really good but I think he’s a product of his system. If he came to jacksonville, you would be very disappointed with his production. I think OBJ and Julio would be good in any system.

---

You still think hes over priced for the best WR in the game?

I’d would take Julio, Adams, and OBJ over AB. I’d also take Juju over him as well.

AB is really good but I think he’s a product of his system. If he came to jacksonville, you would be very disappointed with his production. I think OBJ and Julio would be good in any system.

Adams over Brown lol.  Brown is a top 5 WR all time and would be good with any QB if they can get him the ball.  Is the system running AB's routes, beating the double coverages, and making those crazy and rediculous catches he does on a week to week basis?

---

Hopkins >>>>> Beckham

---

Adam Thielen is up there as well

---

I’d would take Julio, Adams, and OBJ over AB. I’d also take Juju over him as well.

AB is really good but I think he’s a product of his system. If he came to jacksonville, you would be very disappointed with his production. I think OBJ and Julio would be good in any system.

Adams over Brown lol.  Brown is a top 5 WR all time and would be good with any QB if they can get him the ball.  Is the system running AB's routes, beating the double coverages, and making those crazy and rediculous catches he does on a week to week basis?

---

Hopkins >>>>> Beckham

---

Adam Thielen is up there as well

I knew I was forgetting someone. Hopkins over AB as well.

AB is a HOF WR.... no doubt. But he’s getting older and has really only produced with 1 QB. He’s never even caught a TD pass from another QB... even with Ben missing games.

---

Adams over Brown lol.  Brown is a top 5 WR all time and would be good with any QB if they can get him the ball.  Is the system running AB's routes, beating the double coverages, and making those crazy and rediculous catches he does on a week to week basis?

---

Hopkins >>>>> Beckham

---

Adam Thielen is up there as well

I knew I was forgetting someone. Hopkins over AB as well.

AB is a HOF WR.... no doubt. But he’s getting older and has really only produced with 1 QB. He’s never even caught a TD pass from another QB... even with Ben missing games.

lol, Brown is 30 and a top 5 All Time. Still has a good 3 or 4 years at an elite level.  What does him having to produce with 1 QB have anything to do with how good he is?   I bet if the Pats trade for him he will be even better.  Or if he goes to SF or GB he might get career highs as well.  Also Juju wont have the year he did this year when Brown leaves and is not drawing those double teams.  Brown had 15 TDs this year and if the Pats trade which I think is a possibility, I think he hits 20.  Brown will prove you wrong where ever he goes, we will come back to this thread.

---

Why would a team like the Jags want a top 5 WR all time still in his prime and a SB MVP QB from year ago? As many years as this team has been in the dump a few dont want the jags to do it lol

---

If the trading team assumes Brown's contract with its current structure, then his cap hit in 2019 is $22 million.
EDIT:
nevermind - I see how he'd only cost 14 million now. Jags wouldn't have to pay the prorated bonus and restructure proration.

Still too much for me for a guy turning 31 this summer.

I  also can certainly see AB being far from a willing participant in any trade that ends in him playing cheaply in 2019.

You still think hes over priced for the best WR in the game?

Yes. 

I don't want to pay 14 mil for a guy that will be 31 in July and doesn't want to be here. Especially when he caused so much drama in the last place he was unhappy. 
(and please tell me all about how he "wants to be here" because I guarantee the Jags with a question mark at QB are at the bottom of his wish list)

I want nothing to do with that situation.

---

You still think hes over priced for the best WR in the game?

Yes. 

I don't want to pay 14 mil for a guy that will be 31 in July and doesn't want to be here. Especially when he caused so much drama in the last place he was unhappy. 
(and please tell me all about how he "wants to be here" because I guarantee the Jags with a question mark at QB are at the bottom of his wish list)

I want nothing to do with that situation.

How do you know he doesnt want to be here?  That is a whole different argument. If Tom tells him we are going to draft Kyler Murray and Brown thanks highly of Murray, there is no telling.  Brown has at least 3 years or more of play in his prime.  Brown is built like Steve Smith, plays like Smith and a good bit better than Smith.  I see no reason why he cant play at an elite level into his mid 30s.  It isnt like he has had a history of injuries.   And to think Brown would be overpriced is comical.

---