Lol, you asked, so don't blame the messenger. The stats are completely accurate and I'll stand by them. If you disagree that being within 90% of average is not close to average then that's your problem. Someone may decide to post a bell curve and determine what the standard deviation is for some of those stats but honestly, at this point you've gone completely off the farm/topic and it's not worth it.

I think you're underestimating how big of a difference being 10% below average across the board would be. A QB who was at 90 across the board in rate+ stats would be among the worst QBs in the league.

Conversely, a QB who is merely 110 across the board consistently would be a near elite QB.

That's a valid point. The margins in the league are razor thin. My original point though wasn't so much around Bortles being average or below average it was more around the injuries impact on the offense. What I was saying is that Bortles was close enough to average to not make much of a difference in the outcome of the season. You could have taken a really good QB and the record would have been very similar.

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Lol, you asked, so don't blame the messenger. The stats are completely accurate and I'll stand by them. If you disagree that being within 90% of average is not close to average then that's your problem. Someone may decide to post a bell curve and determine what the standard deviation is for some of those stats but honestly, at this point you've gone completely off the farm/topic and it's not worth it.

I was expecting a strawman reply and you delivered with aplomb. You tried prove Bortles played average this year by saying most of his stats were average or close enough to it not to matter, the problem with your assertion is that ALL of his stats were below average meaning he was not in fact close to an average QB. 

Blake being 7% worse than league average in completion % is a massive gap..you know...as evidenced by him being 35th out of 41 QBs , but you already know all of this of course. 

I can't wait to use your method of defining QB stats throughout the season lol

You're OCD about Bortles, I've realized that now. But he's as good as gone now so barring him signing with another team, I'll be curious to see who you latch on to next.

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I'm condescending. That means I talk down to you.

The NFL just sucks today. That pretty much sums it up for me.

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Lol, you asked, so don't blame the messenger. The stats are completely accurate and I'll stand by them. If you disagree that being within 90% of average is not close to average then that's your problem. Someone may decide to post a bell curve and determine what the standard deviation is for some of those stats but honestly, at this point you've gone completely off the farm/topic and it's not worth it.

I was expecting a strawman reply and you delivered with aplomb. You tried prove Bortles played average this year by saying most of his stats were average or close enough to it not to matter, the problem with your assertion is that ALL of his stats were below average meaning he was not in fact close to an average QB. 

Blake being 7% worse than league average in completion % is a massive gap..you know...as evidenced by him being 35th out of 41 QBs , but you already know all of this of course. 

I can't wait to use your method of defining QB stats throughout the season lol

To be fair this isn't rigorous statistical evaluation.

If we wanted to be anal about it first we'd have to determine what average means. If it's based on statistics it would have to all be rate based. Then we'd have to figure out what a standard deviation is in that stat, then we could figure up the likelihood of an "average" QB having that statistical performance. Doesn't really seem worth the time. We already know he was good enough to be minutes and a defensive nosedive from the Superbowl. If he's truly below average it's probably not that far.

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I was expecting a strawman reply and you delivered with aplomb. You tried prove Bortles played average this year by saying most of his stats were average or close enough to it not to matter, the problem with your assertion is that ALL of his stats were below average meaning he was not in fact close to an average QB. 

Blake being 7% worse than league average in completion % is a massive gap..you know...as evidenced by him being 35th out of 41 QBs , but you already know all of this of course. 

I can't wait to use your method of defining QB stats throughout the season lol

To be fair this isn't rigorous statistical evaluation.

If we wanted to be anal about it first we'd have to determine what average means. If it's based on statistics it would have to all be rate based. Then we'd have to figure out what a standard deviation is in that stat, then we could figure up the likelihood of an "average" QB having that statistical performance. Doesn't really seem worth the time. We already know he was good enough to be minutes and a defensive nosedive from the Superbowl. If he's truly below average it's probably not that far.

Wouldnt you also have to figure in the massive amount of drops??

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I was expecting a strawman reply and you delivered with aplomb. You tried prove Bortles played average this year by saying most of his stats were average or close enough to it not to matter, the problem with your assertion is that ALL of his stats were below average meaning he was not in fact close to an average QB. 

Blake being 7% worse than league average in completion % is a massive gap..you know...as evidenced by him being 35th out of 41 QBs , but you already know all of this of course. 

I can't wait to use your method of defining QB stats throughout the season lol

To be fair this isn't rigorous statistical evaluation.

If we wanted to be anal about it first we'd have to determine what average means. If it's based on statistics it would have to all be rate based. Then we'd have to figure out what a standard deviation is in that stat, then we could figure up the likelihood of an "average" QB having that statistical performance. Doesn't really seem worth the time. We already know he was good enough to be minutes and a defensive nosedive from the Superbowl. If he's truly below average it's probably not that far.

This is , very specifically, about Blake in 2018. We already know what the average stats for QBs in the 2018 are and we already know how far below them Blake was. + Most year watched him play in 2018 and could see how had he is.

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To be fair this isn't rigorous statistical evaluation.

If we wanted to be anal about it first we'd have to determine what average means. If it's based on statistics it would have to all be rate based. Then we'd have to figure out what a standard deviation is in that stat, then we could figure up the likelihood of an "average" QB having that statistical performance. Doesn't really seem worth the time. We already know he was good enough to be minutes and a defensive nosedive from the Superbowl. If he's truly below average it's probably not that far.

Wouldnt you also have to figure in the massive amount of drops??

He's below average in adjusted accuracy numbers too

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To be fair this isn't rigorous statistical evaluation.

If we wanted to be anal about it first we'd have to determine what average means. If it's based on statistics it would have to all be rate based. Then we'd have to figure out what a standard deviation is in that stat, then we could figure up the likelihood of an "average" QB having that statistical performance. Doesn't really seem worth the time. We already know he was good enough to be minutes and a defensive nosedive from the Superbowl. If he's truly below average it's probably not that far.

Wouldnt you also have to figure in the massive amount of drops??

That could certainly be done, but assuming a large enough sample size for figuring the average and also for evaluating Bortles stats it's likely unnecessary.

The real issue is determining what average means. If it means everyone that has ever picked up a football professional or not then Bortles is statistically indistinguishable from Tom Brady. If it means among NFL starters that have thrown more than 2000 passes in the last five seasons it would show heavily against him because most of the time when a QB plays badly they don't get multiple seasons uninterrupted to build up that many attempts.

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To be fair this isn't rigorous statistical evaluation.

If we wanted to be anal about it first we'd have to determine what average means. If it's based on statistics it would have to all be rate based. Then we'd have to figure out what a standard deviation is in that stat, then we could figure up the likelihood of an "average" QB having that statistical performance. Doesn't really seem worth the time. We already know he was good enough to be minutes and a defensive nosedive from the Superbowl. If he's truly below average it's probably not that far.

Wouldnt you also have to figure in the massive amount of drops??

From drops and scheme we just dont have the Coaching staff to properly make adjustments when things go awry.  I'm hoping thats what the whole Foles signing is for actually.  If we want to continue gameplanning for the 1st half of games then Foles may be the QB to make it work.  If he has good timing and ball placement then no matter what teams sit on our routes, he should be able to fit in that tight window unlike Bortles consistently.  Only thing that makes sense honestly.  We didnt use Bortles good traits, running the ball via option or designed QB runs so i assume we just want a QB that stands in the pocket and throws quick passes into tight coverage accurately but doesnt really use any mobility.

---

Season Tix, Section 409

2023 and still counting.....SB will finally be ours soon enough.
TLaw aka 'the prince that was promised' supporter.

I think you're underestimating how big of a difference being 10% below average across the board would be. A QB who was at 90 across the board in rate+ stats would be among the worst QBs in the league.

Conversely, a QB who is merely 110 across the board consistently would be a near elite QB.

That's a valid point. The margins in the league are razor thin. My original point though wasn't so much around Bortles being average or below average it was more around the injuries impact on the offense. What I was saying is that Bortles was close enough to average to not make much of a difference in the outcome of the season. You could have taken a really good QB and the record would have been very similar.

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I was expecting a strawman reply and you delivered with aplomb. You tried prove Bortles played average this year by saying most of his stats were average or close enough to it not to matter, the problem with your assertion is that ALL of his stats were below average meaning he was not in fact close to an average QB. 

Blake being 7% worse than league average in completion % is a massive gap..you know...as evidenced by him being 35th out of 41 QBs , but you already know all of this of course. 

I can't wait to use your method of defining QB stats throughout the season lol

You're OCD about Bortles, I've realized that now. But he's as good as gone now so barring him signing with another team, I'll be curious to see who you latch on to next.

At least you're taking the L with grace. 

I doubt I'm even in the top 10 of Bortles naysayers on the board, gave him plenty credit for how he played last year. While also acknowledging it's clear we should have moved on in the 2017 draft.

Any examples of other layers I have "latched on to"?

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Wouldnt you also have to figure in the massive amount of drops??

From drops and scheme we just dont have the Coaching staff to properly make adjustments when things go awry.  I'm hoping thats what the whole Foles signing is for actually.  If we want to continue gameplanning for the 1st half of games then Foles may be the QB to make it work.  If he has good timing and ball placement then no matter what teams sit on our routes, he should be able to fit in that tight window unlike Bortles consistently.  Only thing that makes sense honestly.  We didnt use Bortles good traits, running the ball via option or designed QB runs so i assume we just want a QB that stands in the pocket and throws quick passes into tight coverage accurately but doesnt really use any mobility.

You do know if they called run/pass options it was up to Bortles to read the D and decide whether to run or pass...right?

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From drops and scheme we just dont have the Coaching staff to properly make adjustments when things go awry.  I'm hoping thats what the whole Foles signing is for actually.  If we want to continue gameplanning for the 1st half of games then Foles may be the QB to make it work.  If he has good timing and ball placement then no matter what teams sit on our routes, he should be able to fit in that tight window unlike Bortles consistently.  Only thing that makes sense honestly.  We didnt use Bortles good traits, running the ball via option or designed QB runs so i assume we just want a QB that stands in the pocket and throws quick passes into tight coverage accurately but doesnt really use any mobility.

You do know if they called run/pass options it was up to Bortles to read the D and decide whether to run or pass...right?

Yes, i do know.  I also know that the max of 5 times i saw that called.  He gained good yardage and sometimes first downs.  I also saw when we had know line and he had to run he got crucial first downs and helped the team.  Even in the horribly called bills playoff game he used his legs to keep drives going when he could.  Coaches couldnt call a good passing gameplan if it slapped them was my gut feeling until Pit the following week and then him out passing brady in the afc ship before we went run heavy again and started the stupidness after halftime as always.  Hey i got redemtion with almost 400 this season.

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Season Tix, Section 409

2023 and still counting.....SB will finally be ours soon enough.
TLaw aka 'the prince that was promised' supporter.

You do know if they called run/pass options it was up to Bortles to read the D and decide whether to run or pass...right?

Yes, i do know.  I also know that the max of 5 times i saw that called.  He gained good yardage and sometimes first downs.  I also saw when we had know line and he had to run he got crucial first downs and helped the team.  Even in the horribly called bills playoff game he used his legs to keep drives going when he could.  Coaches couldnt call a good passing gameplan if it slapped them was my gut feeling until Pit the following week and then him out passing brady in the afc ship before we went run heavy again and started the stupidness after halftime as always.  Hey i got redemtion with almost 400 this season.

Dude. What game were you watching?! Blake couldn't complete a 5 yard out to Hurns. In what world is that play calling?

His games against Pitt and NE in the playoffs are vastly overrated by some on this board. That Pats defense last season was absolutely dreadful and he threw for 214 and TD against Pitt.

Also... The coach you're referring to about playcalling just became the OC of the Packers.

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Yes, i do know.  I also know that the max of 5 times i saw that called.  He gained good yardage and sometimes first downs.  I also saw when we had know line and he had to run he got crucial first downs and helped the team.  Even in the horribly called bills playoff game he used his legs to keep drives going when he could.  Coaches couldnt call a good passing gameplan if it slapped them was my gut feeling until Pit the following week and then him out passing brady in the afc ship before we went run heavy again and started the stupidness after halftime as always.  Hey i got redemtion with almost 400 this season.

Dude. What game were you watching?! Blake couldn't complete a 5 yard out to Hurns. In what world is that play calling?

His games against Pitt and NE in the playoffs are vastly overrated by some on this board. That Pats defense last season was absolutely dreadful and he threw for 214 and TD against Pitt.

Also... The coach you're referring to about playcalling just became the OC of the Packers.

OCs go from team to team almost every year.  That means zero after the horrid OCs we've had getting jobs around the league when they were let go.  Yea i saw the bad passes and it bothered me as well.  As far as the down and distance on alot of drives, thats what mattered to me the most.  We kept trying to fit a square peg in a round hole just running hoping it would break big.  Iirc we are supposed to be a run first balanced team not a run first second and pass when running would be even more dumb than the first 2 downs.  

I also am not overrating the steelers and pats game.  I know they had their own issues, which is why i wasnt shocked the SB was a passing yardage fest although alot argue foles balled out like the pats defense was top 5 all of a sudden.  I expected a 400 yard game with everyone clowing the FO for running against the PAts when the pass wouldve took us to the ship.  I knew we were going down hill fast though when the game against KC we threw 40 times like we cant spell balance let alone do it correctly.  We run heavy and then get stopped.  Next game we pass more and blow it out the water then the following game we go pass heavy and fail.  Thankfully our former OC has a QB that can go pass heavy all the time.

---

Season Tix, Section 409

2023 and still counting.....SB will finally be ours soon enough.
TLaw aka 'the prince that was promised' supporter.

That's a valid point. The margins in the league are razor thin. My original point though wasn't so much around Bortles being average or below average it was more around the injuries impact on the offense. What I was saying is that Bortles was close enough to average to not make much of a difference in the outcome of the season. You could have taken a really good QB and the record would have been very similar.

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You're OCD about Bortles, I've realized that now. But he's as good as gone now so barring him signing with another team, I'll be curious to see who you latch on to next.

At least you're taking the L with grace. 

I doubt I'm even in the top 10 of Bortles naysayers on the board, gave him plenty credit for how he played last year. While also acknowledging it's clear we should have moved on in the 2017 draft.

Any examples of other layers I have "latched on to"?

Since you joined about the time Bortles was drafted, I'd guess he's your first but you'll have an opportunity to pick another one soon enough. lol. I've honestly never seen anyone so completely and utterly miss the point of a thread but as they say, smart players know when to get off the court.

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I'm condescending. That means I talk down to you.

At least you're taking the L with grace. 

I doubt I'm even in the top 10 of Bortles naysayers on the board, gave him plenty credit for how he played last year. While also acknowledging it's clear we should have moved on in the 2017 draft.

Any examples of other layers I have "latched on to"?

Since you joined about the time Bortles was drafted, I'd guess he's your first but you'll have an opportunity to pick another one soon enough. lol. I've honestly never seen anyone so completely and utterly miss the point of a thread but as they say, smart players know when to get off the court.

For someone I latched onto I sure made very few posts about him in 2014 and 2015 . And largely praised him in 2015+ 2017. Almost like you don't need to be a homer about a QB just because your team drafted him.

Yes you sure did an amazing job convincing people Blake was an average QB in 2018. Most were bowled over by all of those statistical measures Blake was average or close to average in , do Foles and Kessler next

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I simply don't understand the grumbling with Foles. For years, people have been saying we need to dump Bortles, and get someone else. Now we do, and many of those complainers aren't satisfied.

Foles' salary is in the middle of the league. He's a quarterback that (many say) ranks in the middle of the league. I actually dispute that. I think Nick is a a high top ten QB == if he has the right players around him. So for the Jags, they need to use as many as their picks as they can to draft weapons and build the OL. It's easier to do that now that the first pick won't be going to draft a QB.  We can draft that TE from Iowa. Or a great OT.  We can get a RB with one of those third round picks, and with the second and third, we can draft WRs and TEs.  Our OL really was actually pretty decent when they were healthy.

My problem with the Foles signing is tying up franchise QB money in the latest Matt Flynn.

People wanted to get rid of Bortles for the next Patrick Mahomes, not a slightly less limited version of Bortles that can't run. If this move means the Jaguars pass on yet another franchise QB then it was a horrible move. The team needs to find management that can identify franchise quarterbacks in the draft.

Matt Flynn lol wow

Matt Flynn won't accomplish what Foles has in 100 lifetimes. 

Foles is no superstar but he's a perfectly good, solid QB who has demonstrated he can take a team to the promised land. Mahomes' don't hit the FA market ever and whether anyone want to admit it or not this team is a contender in the AFC still assuming league average or above health

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I was expecting a strawman reply and you delivered with aplomb. You tried prove Bortles played average this year by saying most of his stats were average or close enough to it not to matter, the problem with your assertion is that ALL of his stats were below average meaning he was not in fact close to an average QB. 

Blake being 7% worse than league average in completion % is a massive gap..you know...as evidenced by him being 35th out of 41 QBs , but you already know all of this of course. 

I can't wait to use your method of defining QB stats throughout the season lol

To be fair this isn't rigorous statistical evaluation.

If we wanted to be anal about it first we'd have to determine what average means. If it's based on statistics it would have to all be rate based. Then we'd have to figure out what a standard deviation is in that stat, then we could figure up the likelihood of an "average" QB having that statistical performance. Doesn't really seem worth the time. We already know he was good enough to be minutes and a defensive nosedive from the Superbowl. If he's truly below average it's probably not that far.

The fact that Blake was good when the oline was healthy and then bad when it wasn't suggests that oline play is very important particularly when a QB is at the average end of the scale.

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I watch time and time again other teams trading their players they were going to get rid of for at least some compensation (Bennett to NE, Djax to philly etc) while we never get anything. Then we literally pay more for foles just for the sake of doing it?!???!! Really?!??! That is the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard were married to a qb that’s never played a whole season for at least 3 years. Wow!!

https://twitter.com/danielrpopper/status...5446688768

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I watch time and time again other teams trading their players they were going to get rid of for at least some compensation (Bennett to NE, Djax to philly etc) while we never get anything. Then we literally pay more for foles just for the sake of doing it?!???!! Really?!??! That is the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard were married to a qb that’s never played a whole season for at least 3 years. Wow!!

https://twitter.com/danielrpopper/status...5446688768

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"Before you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry, he's a mile away and barefoot."

I watch time and time again other teams trading their players they were going to get rid of for at least some compensation (Bennett to NE, Djax to philly etc) while we never get anything. Then we literally pay more for foles just for the sake of doing it?!???!! Really?!??! That is the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard were married to a qb that’s never played a whole season for at least 3 years. Wow!!

https://twitter.com/danielrpopper/status...5446688768

Sounds like some serious tampering going on...

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https://twitter.com/danielrpopper/status...5446688768

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