Just wondering how the offseason moves to date changes the analysis.

How have the three who many felt should have been fired handled the offseason thus far?

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Just wondering how the offseason moves to date changes the analysis.

How have the three who many felt should have been fired handled the offseason thus far?

They might have bought themselves another year but that's about it. Until they find a franchise QB the enterprise is doomed to lack any consistent kind of success.

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All they did is stick us in purgatory for a few years. Too good to have a shot at an elite QB prospect, not good enough to seriously challenge for a super bowl.

I guess that's better than 6 top 10 picks in 7 years? Actually it might not be, all I want is a title at this point if we aren't competing for that I want to be as bad as possible to try to get that franchise changing QB.

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Foles is plenty good enough to win a SB. It has already been proven. They just need to hit on their draft picks this year and we will be title contenders if we can stay somewhat heathy

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This draft is the biggest Dave's career and Tom's last chance to change this around, I'll come back here in 2 weeks and give my thoughts

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Just wondering how the offseason moves to date changes the analysis.

How have the three who many felt should have been fired handled the offseason thus far?

You should ask this question after the draft

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Caldwell has been around long enough that it's difficult to understand why he's still around (although he has been in a slightly different role the last couple of seasons). Tom and Doug are going into their third year and have gone 1-1 in terms of successful seasons. Given what was available during the F/A period, I think they did fine. Since I don't personally spend hundreds of hours each month evaluating players throughout the league like the staff (and apparently some posters on this forum) do, I'm willing to let things play out and make an evaluation based on results rather than perception.

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I'm condescending. That means I talk down to you.

Just wondering how the offseason moves to date changes the analysis.

How have the three who many felt should have been fired handled the offseason thus far?

All of their futures here are now hitched to Foles being successful or not. I don't see them going QB early in a few weeks from today now as it stands. They'll have to do everything they can to ensure Foles is successful and the only way they can pull that off is by trying to build around him like they did with Bortles, Gabbert and Leftwich. 

But I would say they did just okay so far this off season. I wasn't expecting much. Our defense is still mostly intact and 2nd year players like Bryan and Harrison will have to continue to step it up this summer and all year to make it fire on all cylinders. That 7th overall choice is going to be interesting. Because I honestly feel for the first time in a long time it's really not all that easy to predict. 

My dream scenario would be them trading out of that slot with maybe Miami or Atlanta and they still manage to grab a guy like Hockenson at TE, Metcalf at WR or possibly Ford at RT/G. That would be ideal. While picking up maybe another 2nd or 3rd RD pick for this year's draft and/or a combination of picks for next year's draft. Would really like to see Caldwell finesse Mayock a little bit with him being up to bat for the first time with the Raiders. That would be awesome to see on opening night. 

If they can't trade out? Devin White, ILB, LSU. I think he'll be there. If he's there. Take him. He's going to be a good one I think for many years to come. And he's a more natural fit for the position. Put him inside and move Jack back outside. Fine by me.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

Foles is plenty good enough to win a SB.  It has already been proven.  They just need to hit on their draft picks this year and we will be title contenders if we can stay somewhat heathy

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This draft is the biggest Dave's career and Tom's last chance to change this around, I'll come back here in 2 weeks and give my thoughts

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Just wondering how the offseason moves to date changes the analysis.

How have the three who many felt should have been fired handled the offseason thus far?

You should ask this question after the draft

I thought about it, but since so much of the discussion surrounded veteran QBs I figured it would be good to revisit it now.  I'd like to revisit this after the draft too.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Just wondering how the offseason moves to date changes the analysis.

How have the three who many felt should have been fired handled the offseason thus far?

All of their futures here are now hitched to Foles being successful or not. I don't see them going QB early in a few weeks from today now as it stands. They'll have to do everything they can to ensure Foles is successful and the only way they can pull that off is by trying to build around him like they did with Bortles, Gabbert and Leftwich. 

But I would say they did just okay so far this off season. I wasn't expecting much. Our defense is still mostly intact and 2nd year players like Bryan and Harrison will have to continue to step it up this summer and all year to make it fire on all cylinders. That 7th overall choice is going to be interesting. Because I honestly feel for the first time in a long time it's really not all that easy to predict. 

My dream scenario would be them trading out of that slot with maybe Miami or Atlanta and they still manage to grab a guy like Hockenson at TE, Metcalf at WR or possibly Ford at RT/G. That would be ideal. While picking up maybe another 2nd or 3rd RD pick for this year's draft and/or a combination of picks for next year's draft. Would really like to see Caldwell finesse Mayock a little bit with him being up to bat for the first time with the Raiders. That would be awesome to see on opening night. 

If they can't trade out? Devin White, ILB, LSU. I think he'll be there. If he's there. Take him. He's going to be a good one I think for many years to come. And he's a more natural fit for the position. Put him inside and move Jack back outside. Fine by me.

Devin White fits the slot. Cincy at 11 needs a LB. White probably won't last to 11. Work it out Caldwell!

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"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

All of their futures here are now hitched to Foles being successful or not. I don't see them going QB early in a few weeks from today now as it stands. They'll have to do everything they can to ensure Foles is successful and the only way they can pull that off is by trying to build around him like they did with Bortles, Gabbert and Leftwich. 

But I would say they did just okay so far this off season. I wasn't expecting much. Our defense is still mostly intact and 2nd year players like Bryan and Harrison will have to continue to step it up this summer and all year to make it fire on all cylinders. That 7th overall choice is going to be interesting. Because I honestly feel for the first time in a long time it's really not all that easy to predict. 

My dream scenario would be them trading out of that slot with maybe Miami or Atlanta and they still manage to grab a guy like Hockenson at TE, Metcalf at WR or possibly Ford at RT/G. That would be ideal. While picking up maybe another 2nd or 3rd RD pick for this year's draft and/or a combination of picks for next year's draft. Would really like to see Caldwell finesse Mayock a little bit with him being up to bat for the first time with the Raiders. That would be awesome to see on opening night. 

If they can't trade out? Devin White, ILB, LSU. I think he'll be there. If he's there. Take him. He's going to be a good one I think for many years to come. And he's a more natural fit for the position. Put him inside and move Jack back outside. Fine by me.

Devin White fits the slot. Cincy at 11 needs a LB. White probably won't last to 11. Work it out Caldwell!

I'm doubtful any trade down will occur, but based upon the positions of greatest need on this team and the available talent, this seems to be a good year to trade down.  But TC's and Dave's history shows they never trade down, especially in the first round.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Just wondering how the offseason moves to date changes the analysis.

How have the three who many felt should have been fired handled the offseason thus far?

All of their futures here are now hitched to Foles being successful or not. I don't see them going QB early in a few weeks from today now as it stands. They'll have to do everything they can to ensure Foles is successful and the only way they can pull that off is by trying to build around him like they did with Bortles, Gabbert and Leftwich. 

But I would say they did just okay so far this off season. I wasn't expecting much. Our defense is still mostly intact and 2nd year players like Bryan and Harrison will have to continue to step it up this summer and all year to make it fire on all cylinders. That 7th overall choice is going to be interesting. Because I honestly feel for the first time in a long time it's really not all that easy to predict. 

My dream scenario would be them trading out of that slot with maybe Miami or Atlanta and they still manage to grab a guy like Hockenson at TE, Metcalf at WR or possibly Ford at RT/G. That would be ideal. While picking up maybe another 2nd or 3rd RD pick for this year's draft and/or a combination of picks for next year's draft. Would really like to see Caldwell finesse Mayock a little bit with him being up to bat for the first time with the Raiders. That would be awesome to see on opening night. 

If they can't trade out? Devin White, ILB, LSU. I think he'll be there. If he's there. Take him. He's going to be a good one I think for many years to come. And he's a more natural fit for the position. Put him inside and move Jack back outside. Fine by me.

who you making a backup out of Devin, Jack and Telvin? Telvin was awful last year but hes also played a level we've never seen Jack reach so far in his career, if Telvin rebounds will you just cut him? 

A high draft pick on an off ball Lb would be one of the worst moves we could make in the entire draft

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All of their futures here are now hitched to Foles being successful or not. I don't see them going QB early in a few weeks from today now as it stands. They'll have to do everything they can to ensure Foles is successful and the only way they can pull that off is by trying to build around him like they did with Bortles, Gabbert and Leftwich. 

But I would say they did just okay so far this off season. I wasn't expecting much. Our defense is still mostly intact and 2nd year players like Bryan and Harrison will have to continue to step it up this summer and all year to make it fire on all cylinders. That 7th overall choice is going to be interesting. Because I honestly feel for the first time in a long time it's really not all that easy to predict. 

My dream scenario would be them trading out of that slot with maybe Miami or Atlanta and they still manage to grab a guy like Hockenson at TE, Metcalf at WR or possibly Ford at RT/G. That would be ideal. While picking up maybe another 2nd or 3rd RD pick for this year's draft and/or a combination of picks for next year's draft. Would really like to see Caldwell finesse Mayock a little bit with him being up to bat for the first time with the Raiders. That would be awesome to see on opening night. 

If they can't trade out? Devin White, ILB, LSU. I think he'll be there. If he's there. Take him. He's going to be a good one I think for many years to come. And he's a more natural fit for the position. Put him inside and move Jack back outside. Fine by me.

who you making a backup out of Devin, Jack and Telvin? Telvin was awful last year but hes also played a level we've never seen Jack reach so far in his career, if Telvin rebounds will you just cut him? 

A high draft pick on an off ball Lb would be one of the worst moves we could make in the entire draft

Jack has flashed here and there and is still learning the position. Go back and look at some of his games where he's all over the place. More times than not he's coming up with a FF, a FR or an INT at some point during our best defensive stretches. He can also lay the wood probably better than anybody else on this defense. He had to dial it back since day one because of all of the PF's he was drawing from the zebras. 

White is essentially in that same mold. He just has a bit more naturalness to the position that Jack lacked coming out of UCLA. They could rotate the nickel package personnel depending on the down and distance and the opposing personnel. I don't see where we go wrong here in taking White. And I don't see White as just a "Off Ball" LB. Plenty of his highlights indicate that his 4.4 speed and twitch ability are put to good use and he's plenty capable of getting in between tackles and lineman to knife a RB into the ground or snuff out a mobile QB. 

You take White. Place him inside. Jack slides back to the outside to compliment Smith on the opposite end. We get stronger on 1st and 2nd down's with those three on the field. That 6th or 7th rounder from Wisconsin last year becomes the rotational back-up. But I could see Jack, White and Smith moving in and out of the defense in 3rd and long situations to keep it interesting.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

I still think Caldwell has worn out his welcome. Maybe not within the building, he obviously has support, but with his performance.

Maybe they feel he's still green and are trying to polish out the blemishes. His mistakes have cut deep enough to undermine the good he's brought. Somehow he was able to make Blake his fall guy, who really was the ship he should have gone down with.

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"You do your own thing in your own time. You should be proud."

who you making a backup out of Devin, Jack and Telvin? Telvin was awful last year but hes also played a level we've never seen Jack reach so far in his career, if Telvin rebounds will you just cut him? 

A high draft pick on an off ball Lb would be one of the worst moves we could make in the entire draft

Jack has flashed here and there and is still learning the position. Go back and look at some of his games where he's all over the place. More times than not he's coming up with a FF, a FR or an INT at some point during our best defensive stretches. He can also lay the wood probably better than anybody else on this defense. He had to dial it back since day one because of all of the PF's he was drawing from the zebras. 

White is essentially in that same mold. He just has a bit more naturalness to the position that Jack lacked coming out of UCLA. They could rotate the nickel package personnel depending on the down and distance and the opposing personnel. I don't see where we go wrong here in taking White. And I don't see White as just a "Off Ball" LB. Plenty of his highlights indicate that his 4.4 speed and twitch ability are put to good use and he's plenty capable of getting in between tackles and lineman to knife a RB into the ground or snuff out a mobile QB. 

You take White. Place him inside. Jack slides back to the outside to compliment Smith on the opposite end. We get stronger on 1st and 2nd down's with those three on the field. That 6th or 7th rounder from Wisconsin last year becomes the rotational back-up. But I could see Jack, White and Smith moving in and out of the defense in 3rd and long situations to keep it interesting.

That wasn't saying Jack is bad, just that he hasn't gotten to the level we've seen Telvin at, which is true.  

"Off ball" refers to what his role is the vast majority of the time which is off the ball. Same as Jack and Telvin. 

We had one of the best base defenses in football last year with Jack at mike and Telvin at will, despite poor performance. You are gonna be making one of them a backup with a White selection and the amount of increase to performance isn't very high overall. He's going to be a very good player but it'd be a truly terrible pick at one of the least important positions on the entire defense

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All of their futures here are now hitched to Foles being successful or not. I don't see them going QB early in a few weeks from today now as it stands. They'll have to do everything they can to ensure Foles is successful and the only way they can pull that off is by trying to build around him like they did with Bortles, Gabbert and Leftwich. 

But I would say they did just okay so far this off season. I wasn't expecting much. Our defense is still mostly intact and 2nd year players like Bryan and Harrison will have to continue to step it up this summer and all year to make it fire on all cylinders. That 7th overall choice is going to be interesting. Because I honestly feel for the first time in a long time it's really not all that easy to predict. 

My dream scenario would be them trading out of that slot with maybe Miami or Atlanta and they still manage to grab a guy like Hockenson at TE, Metcalf at WR or possibly Ford at RT/G. That would be ideal. While picking up maybe another 2nd or 3rd RD pick for this year's draft and/or a combination of picks for next year's draft. Would really like to see Caldwell finesse Mayock a little bit with him being up to bat for the first time with the Raiders. That would be awesome to see on opening night. 

If they can't trade out? Devin White, ILB, LSU. I think he'll be there. If he's there. Take him. He's going to be a good one I think for many years to come. And he's a more natural fit for the position. Put him inside and move Jack back outside. Fine by me.

who you making a backup out of Devin, Jack and Telvin? Telvin was awful last year but hes also played a level we've never seen Jack reach so far in his career, if Telvin rebounds will you just cut him? 

A high draft pick on an off ball Lb would be one of the worst moves we could make in the entire draft

Jack was much better in 2017 than Telvin was in 2018.

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who you making a backup out of Devin, Jack and Telvin? Telvin was awful last year but hes also played a level we've never seen Jack reach so far in his career, if Telvin rebounds will you just cut him? 

A high draft pick on an off ball Lb would be one of the worst moves we could make in the entire draft

Jack was much better in 2017 than Telvin was in 2018.

Read again

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Jack was better than Telvin last year too

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Jack was much better in 2017 than Telvin was in 2018.

Read again

Yeah, if he rebounds would be best case scenario. Same with Ramsey, Bouye, Cam, LF, and norwell

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Jack was better than Telvin last year too

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Read again

Yeah, if he rebounds would be best case scenario.  Same with Ramsey, Bouye, Cam, LF, and norwell

In 2016 and 2017 Telvin was legit great, we just haven't seen Jack hit that territory yet so don't want to prematurely lock him in to being it, even if he has the talent. I am worried that a massive drop off like Telvins is hard to come back fully from.

What do you think of Devin White at 7?

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Jack was better than Telvin last year too

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Yeah, if he rebounds would be best case scenario.  Same with Ramsey, Bouye, Cam, LF, and norwell

In 2016 and 2017 Telvin was legit great, we just haven't seen Jack hit that territory yet so don't want to prematurely lock him in to being it, even if he has the talent. I am worried that a massive drop off like Telvins is hard to come back fully from.

You are overstating Telvin's struggles. So much of it is easily identified as mental lapses. It's not like he took an athletic step backward. He also played through injury in November and December last year, so he was in fact not athletically 100% much of the time. 

I think folks need to slow their roll with the "Telvin was terrible" narrative. 

He had a down year and played more undisciplined football than he did in 2017. It's absolutely fixable.

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I still think Caldwell has worn out his welcome.  Maybe not within the building, he obviously has support, but with his performance.

Maybe they feel he's still green and are trying to polish out the blemishes.  His mistakes have cut deep enough to undermine the good he's brought.  Somehow he was able to make Blake his fall guy, who really was the ship he should have gone down with.

Made him the fall guy by giving him a contract extension?  How in the world did he make him the fall guy?

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Caldwell still sucks. There is no question about that.

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