If you can promise me he will face the Bengals, Jets, Flacco, Mariota, Teddy, Kyle Allen, Texans w/o Fuller, and Colts without Hilton then I believe he can be a solid CB2 on a team that is still losing despite that embarrassingly easy schedule.

Can he be a CB2 on a respectable team that faces a non joke schedule? Well, we'll see soon enough when he faces one of Evans/Godwin, Allen/Williams, or Julio/Ridley in the next month.

This.

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Herndon sucks even as an UDFA

Don't put lipstick on a pig please.

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Herndon sucks even as an UDFA

Don't put lipstick on a pig please.

Provide some evidence based on this season please. He has one of the best completion rates allowed in the NFL and one of the best passer ratings allowed too.

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Herndon sucks even as an UDFA

Don't put lipstick on a pig please.

Provide some evidence based on this season please. He has one of the best completion rates allowed in the NFL and one of the best passer ratings allowed too.

35pts given up so far and its still the 3rd quarter (gave up the long TD).

33-13 last week against the clots.

26-3 against the tinhorns.

That's all the evidence you need.

It's a team sport but like I said, don't put lipstick on a pig. He's garbage in addition to the rest of the players barring 1 or 2 guys.

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Provide some evidence based on this season please. He has one of the best completion rates allowed in the NFL and one of the best passer ratings allowed too.

35pts given up so far and its still the 3rd quarter (gave up the long TD).

33-13 last week against the clots.

26-3 against the tinhorns.

That's all the evidence you need.

It's a team sport but like I said, don't put lipstick on a pig. He's garbage in addition to the rest of the players barring 1 or 2 guys.

Sorry thats not evidence of "him" sucking this season. If you wanna say the defense as a whole has sucked I'll agree 100%.   

He has had great games vs above average WR2s in like 5 games this year. Struggled vs broncos , saints and some portions of other games.

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35pts given up so far and its still the 3rd quarter (gave up the long TD).

33-13 last week against the clots.

26-3 against the tinhorns.

That's all the evidence you need.

It's a team sport but like I said, don't put lipstick on a pig. He's garbage in addition to the rest of the players barring 1 or 2 guys.

This makes zero sense.

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Scouting well is all that matters.  Draft philosophy is all fluff.

35pts given up so far and its still the 3rd quarter (gave up the long TD).

33-13 last week against the clots.

26-3 against the tinhorns.

That's all the evidence you need.

It's a team sport but like I said, don't put lipstick on a pig. He's garbage in addition to the rest of the players barring 1 or 2 guys.

Sorry thats not evidence of "him" sucking this season. If you wanna say the defense as a whole has sucked I'll agree 100%.   

He has had great games vs above average WR2s in like 5 games this year. Struggled vs broncos , saints and some portions of other games.

Ok great then! Looks like Bouye and Herndon are our building blocks of our defense for the next 5 years!

Give me a break.

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35pts given up so far and its still the 3rd quarter (gave up the long TD).

33-13 last week against the clots.

26-3 against the tinhorns.

That's all the evidence you need.

It's a team sport but like I said, don't put lipstick on a pig. He's garbage in addition to the rest of the players barring 1 or 2 guys.

This makes zero sense.

He's garbage in addition to this defense. No need to defend mediocre play.

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Still making zero sense. You may as well reply to the last Josh Allen thread and say we should get rid of him as well since the defense sucks.

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Scouting well is all that matters.  Draft philosophy is all fluff.

Still making zero sense.  You may as well reply to the last Josh Allen thread and say we should get rid of him  as well since the defense sucks.

Uh, no.

Josh is one of the " 1 or 2 players" that I mentioned in my post above.

I'll be sure to send my condolences to you when Herndon loses his job.

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Sorry thats not evidence of "him" sucking this season. If you wanna say the defense as a whole has sucked I'll agree 100%.   

He has had great games vs above average WR2s in like 5 games this year. Struggled vs broncos , saints and some portions of other games.

Ok great then! Looks like Bouye and Herndon are our building blocks of our defense for the next 5 years!

Give me a break.

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This makes zero sense.

He's garbage in addition to this defense. No need to defend mediocre play.

Nah I don't think Herndon is a building piece. Just an udfa from last year who's playing at an average to above average level as a CB2 this year. 

I'd still happily draft a high end corner if that's how it plays out.

You have yet to put forward any cohesive arguments about him sucking this year though

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If you can promise me he will face the Bengals, Jets, Flacco, Mariota, Teddy, Kyle Allen, Texans w/o Fuller, and Colts without Hilton then I believe he can be a solid CB2 on a team that is still losing despite that embarrassingly easy schedule.

Can he be a CB2 on a respectable team that faces a non joke schedule? Well, we'll see soon enough when he faces one of Evans/Godwin, Allen/Williams, or Julio/Ridley in the next month.

He's performed very well vs the likes of Kenny Stills, Will Fuller, Robbie Anderson etc etc. You can analyze those reps independent of QB play.

Not saying we have our CB2 spot locked down for the next 5 years. Just that he's played as well as he could reasonably be expected to in his first starts in the NFL. Even if he plays badly vs a Godwin or Evans it won't make his year bad

I mean, Stills had 4 for 53 on 4 targets in a game where Watson didn't throw much in an easy win. I don't think there is much to glean from the Jets game considering how putrid Darnold was still working his way back from the mono, but Anderson t-t-t-torched Herndon and he had to full stop drag him to the ground for PI or else it would have been one of the easiest bomb TDs of the year. And he still gave up some combination of 9 for 106 on 11 targets between Robbie and Demaryius.

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He's performed very well vs the likes of Kenny Stills, Will Fuller, Robbie Anderson etc etc. You can analyze those reps independent of QB play.  

Not saying we have our CB2 spot locked down for the next 5 years. Just that he's played as well as he could reasonably be expected to in his first starts in the NFL.  Even if he plays badly vs a Godwin or Evans it won't make his year bad

I mean, Stills had 4 for 53 on 4 targets in a game where Watson didn't throw much in an easy win. I don't think there is much to glean from the Jets game considering how putrid Darnold was still working his way back from the mono, but Anderson t-t-t-torched Herndon and he had to full stop drag him to the ground for PI or else it would have been one of the easiest bomb TDs of the year. And he still gave up some combination of 9 for 106 on 11 targets between Robbie and Demaryius.

Stills had 2 catches for 21 yards vs Herndon.  And yeah Anderson cooked him bad but at least he was smart enough to PI , apart from that he played really well vs Anderson. 

His coverage stats through this week:
59 targets
28 completions 
47.5% allowed 
401 yards
6.8 yards per target
2 TDs allowed
2 picks
67.1 passer rating allowed

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I mean, Stills had 4 for 53 on 4 targets in a game where Watson didn't throw much in an easy win. I don't think there is much to glean from the Jets game considering how putrid Darnold was still working his way back from the mono, but Anderson t-t-t-torched Herndon and he had to full stop drag him to the ground for PI or else it would have been one of the easiest bomb TDs of the year. And he still gave up some combination of 9 for 106 on 11 targets between Robbie and Demaryius.

Stills had 2 catches for 21 yards vs Herndon.  And yeah Anderson cooked him bad but at least he was smart enough to PI , apart from that he played really well vs Anderson. 

His coverage stats through this week:
59 targets
28 completions 
47.5% allowed 
401 yards
6.8 yards per target
2 TDs allowed
2 picks
67.1 passer rating allowed

I mean.. that's pretty good for any CB, honestly. I don't get the hate.. no one is saying he's a franchise building block.. he's a serviceable guy playing way above what his talents seem capable of. Pretty cool story to me.

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Stills had 2 catches for 21 yards vs Herndon.  And yeah Anderson cooked him bad but at least he was smart enough to PI , apart from that he played really well vs Anderson. 

His coverage stats through this week:
59 targets
28 completions 
47.5% allowed 
401 yards
6.8 yards per target
2 TDs allowed
2 picks
67.1 passer rating allowed

I mean.. that's pretty good for any CB, honestly. I don't get the hate.. no one is saying he's a franchise building block.. he's a serviceable guy playing way above what his talents seem capable of. Pretty cool story to me.

Pretty much. He's playing at an above average level for a CB2, and this is his first 11 games as a starter.

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For reference https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/tre-h...!#game-log (select the game log tab and you can see his primary matchups and stats allowed in the last 11)
He isn't terrible and nobody is putting lipstick on a pig.

His stats against rank him anywhere between 40th and 60th best CB in the NFL
Which is... ya know... CB#2 stuff.

And he's an UDFA playing in his 2nd year.

If we can get a Jeff Okudah, we should. If we have to address OL and NT, and LB and TE before drafting a DB... I think that's OK too.

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This thing doesn't need to be :

a. Herndon is the future at CB2
-or-
b. Herndon isn't as good as you think - replace him!


We lost a very talented CB. Thusly - our CB1 talent level has been downgraded and our CB2 talent level has been downgraded.
The wise thing to do is to add more talent back into the pool.
Not adding competition to the CB room would be a mistake IMO, and really the only debate in my mind is how much priority you give that addition in terms of draft capital or FA expenditure.
I'd draft a guy pretty early, personally. (prior to the 4th round)

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Yeah as I said I'd still happily draft a high end corner this year, depending on how the draft plays out.

Herndons performance just gives you more leeway *if* that doesn't end up happening. He may even be trade bait for another corner needy team

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This thing doesn't need to be :

a. Herndon is the future at CB2
-or-
b. Herndon isn't as good as you think - replace him!


We lost a very talented CB. Thusly - our CB1 talent level has been downgraded and our CB2 talent level has been downgraded.
The wise thing to do is to add more talent back into the pool.
Not adding competition to the CB room would be a mistake IMO, and really the only debate in my mind is how much priority you give that addition in terms of draft capital or FA expenditure.
I'd draft a guy pretty early, personally. (prior to the 4th round)

Yeah as I said I'd still happily draft a high end corner this year, depending on how the draft plays out.

Herndons performance just gives you more leeway *if* that doesn't end up happening. He may even be trade bait for another corner needy team

Yep, I'll just add that DBs (and players in general) develop all the time. Shoot, he could be downright pretty good next year.
Richard Sherman was a 5th rounder
Rodney Harrison was a 5th rounder
Josh Norman was a 5th rounder....
Kam Chancellor was a 5th rounder
the honey badger was a 3rd rounder...
Gipson was a former undrafted player that had a good career (still playing but def on the downside now)
As was our very own AJ Bouye
and Malcolm Butler and Chris Harris Jr also UDFAs

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This thing doesn't need to be :

a. Herndon is the future at CB2
-or-
b. Herndon isn't as good as you think - replace him!


We lost a very talented CB. Thusly - our CB1 talent level has been downgraded and our CB2 talent level has been downgraded.
The wise thing to do is to add more talent back into the pool.
Not adding competition to the CB room would be a mistake IMO, and really the only debate in my mind is how much priority you give that addition in terms of draft capital or FA expenditure.
I'd draft a guy pretty early, personally.  (prior to the 4th round)

Yeah as I said I'd still happily draft a high end corner this year, depending on how the draft plays out.

Herndons performance just gives you more leeway *if* that doesn't end up happening. He may even be trade bait for another corner needy team

Yep, I'll just add that DBs (and players in general) develop all the time. Shoot, he could be downright pretty good next year.
Richard Sherman was a 5th rounder
Rodney Harrison was a 5th rounder
Josh Norman was a 5th rounder....
Kam Chancellor was a 5th rounder
the honey badger was a 3rd rounder...
Gipson was a former undrafted player that had a good career (still playing but def on the downside now)
As was our very own AJ Bouye
and Malcolm Butler and Chris Harris Jr also UDFAs

And our nickel was a Top 15 draft pick..

You get talent where you get talent.. and hopefully it develops with proper coaching and self-motivation.

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Yep, I'll just add that DBs (and players in general) develop all the time. Shoot, he could be downright pretty good next year.
Richard Sherman was a 5th rounder
Rodney Harrison was a 5th rounder
Josh Norman was a 5th rounder....
Kam Chancellor was a 5th rounder
the honey badger was a 3rd rounder...
Gipson was a former undrafted player that had a good career (still playing but def on the downside now)
As was our very own AJ Bouye
and Malcolm Butler and Chris Harris Jr also UDFAs

 hopefully it develops with proper coaching

Oi....

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