This makes zero sense.

Khan doesn’t want to win?? 

LOL

I don’t get this convoluted notion at all.

What's not to understand?  

Definition of insanity: "Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result."  Albert Einstein.

Khan wants to win and he’s stated it a dozen times in simple terms -  at times with visible frustration.
He didn’t fire Coughlin because he wanted to continue losing. 
He profits greatly from the sales brought by wins. 

Believing he wants to lose is foolish. 

Also that quote was never uttered by Einstein and is also not the definition of insanity.

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What's not to understand?  

Definition of insanity: "Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result."  Albert Einstein.

Khan wants to win and he’s stated it a dozen times in simple terms -  at times with visible frustration.
He didn’t fire Coughlin because he wanted to continue losing. 
He profits greatly from the sales brought by wins. 

Believing he wants to lose is foolish. 

Also that quote was never uttered by Einstein and is also not the definition of insanity.

Khan bought the Jaguars in 2011.  

One winning season since then.  

7 seasons with at least 10 losses.

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Odd that they were all, every one of them, better on arrival than at present, almost like the cooks didnt have a recipe to prepare them.

That isn't even true but yes the coaching is bad too. Bad FO and bad coaching =s one winning season since Khan bought the team.

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So is every offensive linemen Dave that acquired in the draft actually good?  Or are some of them just bad players, if so, what coaching would make them good?

If it "isn't even true" then by all means tell us which offensive lineman, either drafted or free agent, is playing better now than on arrival.

As far as your second question, it's likely that some of them were just bad players. No GM is perfect. But who can tell? My take here is that Caldwell can't be criticized on his OL picks because they never had a chance. Most of them looked good when they first arrived.

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"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

That isn't even true but yes the coaching is bad too. Bad FO and bad coaching =s one winning season since Khan bought the team.

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So is every offensive linemen Dave that acquired in the draft actually good?  Or are some of them just bad players, if so, what coaching would make them good?

If it "isn't even true" then by all means tell us which offensive lineman, either drafted or free agent, is playing better now than on arrival.

As far as your second question, it's likely that some of them were just bad players. No GM is perfect. But who can tell? My take here is that Caldwell can't be criticized on his OL picks because they never had a chance. Most of them looked good when they first arrived.

How convinient.

Caldwell sucks,  do you guys really need me to post all his fails again? most FA's before Coughlin were utter garbage.

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Whether Caldwell stays or goes, what I want is better early-round drafting. I have no issues with Caldwell regarding anything else.

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'02

Caldwell has been pretty average although he's made a couple of notable picks. If it were me in charge, I'd dismiss him though, I believe we can do better.

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I'm condescending. That means I talk down to you. 
Check out the Jag's Forum Alternative: Duval Football Fans.

2016 was Caldwell's best effort here. Ramsey, Jack and Ngakoue. All three hits in a row.

They gave hope and promise at every level on defense. And it only took less than four years to see that very same hope and promise fade.

Coughlin takes the deathblow for failing to extend Ngakoue. For extending Jack instead. Trading Ramsey still has to show if it was the right move down the road.

This is a shame. This has been the most horrific season for me as a fan since being here my entire life and seeing this team since 1995 at the age of 7.

I know for a fact it's been harder for you season ticket holders. It really does bother me with today's reports coming out.

Marrone. Out. Then back in. Now we don't know.

Caldwell. Mum's the word.

Coughlin was bad for the team. I get that. You cannot ignore the results on the field though. That's on Marrone. That's also on Caldwell.

If Khan double down's on these two gentlemen again for 2020 I really do think it'll hurt the future of this city with this franchise.

Whether deliberate or not. That's not our call. We can only speculate. But we have a large fanbase with years and years of experience at watching these types of events and teams and sports in general.

At the end of the day. There's NO POSSIBLE WAY IN HELL. . . That you can convince the majority that keeping them here for another minute longer will benefit this city and team or magically change in 2020.

It's been one let down after another. We're on the cusp of falling into a tar pit with several other miserable fan bases in the NFL.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

This is the real problem.

This makes zero sense.

Khan doesn’t want to win?? 

LOL

I don’t get this convoluted notion at all.

Maybe it should be phrased differently.  Khan wants to win.  But is he committed to winning?  The next several days will give us good data on that.  Surely he cannot bring the Caldwell/Marrone combo back.  It's just more mediocrity.

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Fix the O-Line!

2016 was Caldwell's best effort here. Ramsey, Jack and Ngakoue. All three hits in a row.

They gave hope and promise at every level on defense. And it only took less than four years to see that very same hope and promise fade.

Coughlin takes the deathblow for failing to extend Ngakoue. For extending Jack instead. Trading Ramsey still has to show if it was the right move down the road.

This is a shame. This has been the most horrific season for me as a fan since being here my entire life and seeing this team since 1995 at the age of 7.

I know for a fact it's been harder for you season ticket holders. It really does bother me with today's reports coming out.

Marrone. Out. Then back in. Now we don't know.

Caldwell. Mum's the word.

Coughlin was bad for the team. I get that. You cannot ignore the results on the field though. That's on Marrone. That's also on Caldwell.

If Khan double down's on these two gentlemen again for 2020 I really do think it'll hurt the future of this city with this franchise.

Whether deliberate or not. That's not our call. We can only speculate. But we have a large fanbase with years and years of experience at watching these types of events and teams and sports in general.

At the end of the day. There's NO POSSIBLE WAY IN HELL. . . That you can convince the majority that keeping them here for another minute longer will benefit this city and team or magically change in 2020.

It's been one let down after another. We're on the cusp of falling into a tar pit with several other miserable fan bases in the NFL.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Jack looks more like a bust than a hit as a MLB.

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That isn't even true but yes the coaching is bad too. Bad FO and bad coaching =s one winning season since Khan bought the team.

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So is every offensive linemen Dave that acquired in the draft actually good?  Or are some of them just bad players, if so, what coaching would make them good?

If it "isn't even true" then by all means tell us which offensive lineman, either drafted or free agent, is playing better now than on arrival.

As far as your second question, it's likely that some of them were just bad players. No GM is perfect. But who can tell? My take here is that Caldwell can't be criticized on his OL picks because they never had a chance. Most of them looked good when they first arrived.

Linders best years of his career came in 16/17, not on arrival. Parnells best year of his career came in 2017, not on arrival.  

Look I've been hyper critical of both the offensive line coaching and the acquisitions but there is no logic in saying the GM is free from critique for his picks when they end up bad. If you want to use that logic all of Gene Smith's picks were good players who the coaching failed.  

The reality is it takes two to tango and both deserve appropriate blame for a consistent problem in Caldwell's tenure. Don't worry there's more than enough blame for the FO and coaching with this mess

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If it "isn't even true" then by all means tell us which offensive lineman, either drafted or free agent, is playing better now than on arrival.

As far as your second question, it's likely that some of them were just bad players. No GM is perfect. But who can tell? My take here is that Caldwell can't be criticized on his OL picks because they never had a chance. Most of them looked good when they first arrived.

How convinient.

Caldwell sucks,  do you guys really need me to post all his fails again? most FA's before Coughlin were utter garbage.

Feel free to criticize Caldwell on other things. If he's replaced hopefully it's because Khan knows a lot more than I do. I can only apply logic to what I know. If Caldwell was responsible for hiring Marrone/Wash/Hackett in 2017, if he was the one who insisted on Fournette, if he was the one who insisted on signing Foles, then he needs to go.

As far as free agents before Coughlin, Beadles sucked on arrival as did Gerhart. Julius Thomas was a major disappointment, mostly because of injury. But Marks was a great signing. Miller was a solid run stuffer as he was supposed to be. Blackmon was solid at CB in 2013. Odrick, Parnell, Beachum, and House had good first seasons with the team. Malik Jackson was a good signing. That's about all I can think of as far as starters.

Note the same trend here as with the OL, most of them (DTs are the exception) were fine on arrival and sucked starting in year 2.

We had two good position coaches before 2017, Wash at DL and the WR coach who's name I forget. Every other position coach failed to develop players.

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"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

If it "isn't even true" then by all means tell us which offensive lineman, either drafted or free agent, is playing better now than on arrival.

As far as your second question, it's likely that some of them were just bad players. No GM is perfect. But who can tell? My take here is that Caldwell can't be criticized on his OL picks because they never had a chance. Most of them looked good when they first arrived.

Linders best years of his career came in 16/17, not on arrival. Parnells best year of his career came in 2017, not on arrival.  

Look I've been hyper critical of both the offensive line coaching and the acquisitions but there is no logic in saying the GM is free from critique for his picks when they end up bad. If you want to use that logic all of Gene Smith's picks were good players who the coaching failed.  

The reality is it takes two to tango and both deserve appropriate blame for a consistent problem in Caldwell's tenure. Don't worry there's more than enough blame for the FO and coaching with this mess

Gene Smith's picks mostly sucked from the get go. He failed to do his homework on Blackmon and Gabbert, and both arrived with major uncorrectable flaws. Alualu was a huge reach. You can'r defend Gene Smith based on players starting out looking good and failing to develop.

Linder played guard in 2014, center in 2016/2017, and most posters here think he should be moved back to guard. I take that as a hint that his best year was 2014. You might be right about Parnell. I wonder what PFF says about them. IIRC Bowanko had a solid year in 2014 too as our starting center, but his demise may be due to injury rather than coaching.

I don't know how much Coughlin overrode Caldwell. If every personnel decision was Caldwell's, then he needs to go. Most look like something Coughlin would do (although I believe Caldwell was the one who wanted Taven Bryan). Presumably Khan knows where the blame actually lies and then hopefully makes the right choice based on his knowledge.

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"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

Linders best years of his career came in 16/17, not on arrival. Parnells best year of his career came in 2017, not on arrival.  

Look I've been hyper critical of both the offensive line coaching and the acquisitions but there is no logic in saying the GM is free from critique for his picks when they end up bad. If you want to use that logic all of Gene Smith's picks were good players who the coaching failed.  

The reality is it takes two to tango and both deserve appropriate blame for a consistent problem in Caldwell's tenure. Don't worry there's more than enough blame for the FO and coaching with this mess

Gene Smith's picks mostly sucked from the get go. He failed to do his homework on Blackmon and Gabbert, and both arrived with major uncorrectable flaws. Alualu was a huge reach. You can'r defend Gene Smith based on players starting out looking good and failing to develop.

Linder played guard in 2014, center in 2016/2017, and most posters here think he should be moved back to guard. I take that as a hint that his best year was 2014. You might be right about Parnell. I wonder what PFF says about them. IIRC Bowanko had a solid year in 2014 too as our starting center, but his demise may be due to injury rather than coaching.

I don't know how much Coughlin overrode Caldwell. If every personnel decision was Caldwell's, then he needs to go. Most look like something Coughlin would do (although I believe Caldwell was the one who wanted Taven Bryan). Presumably Khan knows where the blame actually lies and then hopefully makes the right choice based on his knowledge.

He looked better at center in 2017 than he ever did at guard. He was around a top 5 center in 2017, was never a top 5 right guard when he played there. Good player at both spots though imo. 

And almost none of that information will be released. Unless through leaks. 

Shad was handed a golden opportunity to reset the franchise, bring in new people with new eyes and idea to evaluate the roster and use rebuild type draft capital on. It's a terrible choice to continue on with his half measure policy and will end up with the same results unless they really nail this HC hire

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Gene Smith's picks mostly sucked from the get go. He failed to do his homework on Blackmon and Gabbert, and both arrived with major uncorrectable flaws. Alualu was a huge reach. You can'r defend Gene Smith based on players starting out looking good and failing to develop.

Linder played guard in 2014, center in 2016/2017, and most posters here think he should be moved back to guard. I take that as a hint that his best year was 2014. You might be right about Parnell. I wonder what PFF says about them. IIRC Bowanko had a solid year in 2014 too as our starting center, but his demise may be due to injury rather than coaching.

I don't know how much Coughlin overrode Caldwell. If every personnel decision was Caldwell's, then he needs to go. Most look like something Coughlin would do (although I believe Caldwell was the one who wanted Taven Bryan). Presumably Khan knows where the blame actually lies and then hopefully makes the right choice based on his knowledge.

He looked better at center in 2017 than he ever did at guard. He was around a top 5 center in 2017, was never a top 5 right guard when he played there. Good player at both spots though imo. 

And almost none of that information will be released. Unless through leaks. 

Shad was handed a golden opportunity to reset the franchise, bring in new people with new eyes and idea to evaluate the roster and use rebuild type draft capital on. It's a terrible choice to continue on with his half measure policy and will end up with the same results unless they really nail this HC hire

Are you referring to 2017 in that last paragraph, or now (2020)? I thought the Jags should have hired a whole new coaching staff in 2017. Khan blew it back then. Sort of makes it hard to believe he'll make the right choice this time.

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"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

He looked better at center in 2017 than he ever did at guard. He was around a top 5 center in 2017, was never a top 5 right guard when he played there. Good player at both spots though imo. 

And almost none of that information will be released. Unless through leaks. 

Shad was handed a golden opportunity to reset the franchise, bring in new people with new eyes and idea to evaluate the roster and use rebuild type draft capital on. It's a terrible choice to continue on with his half measure policy and will end up with the same results unless they really nail this HC hire

Are you referring to 2017 in that last paragraph, or now (2020)? I thought the Jags should have hired a whole new coaching staff in 2017. Khan blew it back then. Sort of makes it hard to believe he'll make the right choice this time.

Current day 2020. Even if you want to say Caldwell is an average GM (i could argue he is/isn't myself) the next 2 years are so critical that I think you really need someone who is able to make a big picture and plan and follow through on it. Dave failed so badly at that they had to demote him and bring in someone no other team was willing to hand over personnel control to.

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Are you referring to 2017 in that last paragraph, or now (2020)? I thought the Jags should have hired a whole new coaching staff in 2017. Khan blew it back then. Sort of makes it hard to believe he'll make the right choice this time.

Current day 2020. Even if you want to say Caldwell is an average GM (i could argue he is/isn't myself) the next 2 years are so critical that I think you really need someone who is able to make a big picture and plan and follow through on it. Dave failed so badly at that they had to demote him and bring in someone no other team was willing to hand over personnel control to.

I think Coughlin was hired because Khan didn't feel capable of running the team, or didn't want to put in the time and effort it would take to do the job properly. He was hired to replace Khan, not Caldwell. If Khan was not satisfied with Caldwell back then he would simply have replaced him with Coughlin. I though that at the time and I still do. 

What I have read since then is that, rather than taking an overseeing executive role, Coughlin decided to micromanage the team. He dictated personnel decisions and salary decisions, and involved himself in coaching during practices. He did things far beyond what Khan intended. Khan was already not happy with Coughlin since he said that Coughlin would have been fired at the end of the season anyway if the NFLPA hadn't forced the issue.

I could be wrong about all of this, but it all fits together into a neat package. The only question remaining is just how far Coughlin went in overriding Marrone and Caldwell.

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"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

I think Coughlin was hired because Khan didn't feel capable of running the team, or didn't want to put in the time and effort it would take to do the job properly. He was hired to replace Khan, not Caldwell. If Khan was not satisfied with Caldwell back then he would simply have replaced him with Coughlin. I though that at the time and I still do. 

What I have read since then is that, rather than taking an overseeing executive role, Coughlin decided to micromanage the team. He dictated personnel decisions and salary decisions, and involved himself in coaching during practices. He did things far beyond what Khan intended. Khan was already not happy with Coughlin since he said that Coughlin would have been fired at the end of the season anyway if the NFLPA hadn't forced the issue.

I could be wrong about all of this, but it all fits together into a neat package. The only question remaining is just how far Coughlin went in overriding Marrone and Caldwell.

Judging by the whole QB debacle with Foles and Minshew a few weeks ago with Marrone and TC, I would say quite pervasive.

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Yes,fire them all

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Current day 2020. Even if you want to say Caldwell is an average GM (i could argue he is/isn't myself) the next 2 years are so critical that I think you really need someone who is able to make a big picture and plan and follow through on it. Dave failed so badly at that they had to demote him and bring in someone no other team was willing to hand over personnel control to.

I think Coughlin was hired because Khan didn't feel capable of running the team, or didn't want to put in the time and effort it would take to do the job properly. He was hired to replace Khan, not Caldwell. If Khan was not satisfied with Caldwell back then he would simply have replaced him with Coughlin. I though that at the time and I still do. 

What I have read since then is that, rather than taking an overseeing executive role, Coughlin decided to micromanage the team. He dictated personnel decisions and salary decisions, and involved himself in coaching during practices. He did things far beyond what Khan intended. Khan was already not happy with Coughlin since he said that Coughlin would have been fired at the end of the season anyway if the NFLPA hadn't forced the issue.

I could be wrong about all of this, but it all fits together into a neat package. The only question remaining is just how far Coughlin went in overriding Marrone and Caldwell.

If you demote your head of FO it means you are not satisfied with him. Tom was brought in to help merge the coaching side with FO while also giving the team some positive PR. Caldwells role was demoted. 

And yes we've been through all of the Coughlin mistakes already.  Nobody has said otherwise. Don't mistake Tom's overreach for thinking Caldwell is an innocent party in all of those blunders too though.  

You can be sure Dave has spent the last few weeks making sure Shad is well aware of all the things he went with and against

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We all saw Shad's quotes during the offseason. If any of the FO survives what is the point in believing another word uttered from Shad's mouth? It will just cement him as another head of the diseased monster.

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