Super Bowl 36: 1:21 left on the clock, the Patriots drive 53 yards in nine plays to set up Vinatieri's game winning field goal.
Super Bowl 38: 1:08 on the clock, the Patriots drive 37 yards in six plays to set up Vinatieri's game winning field goal.
Super Bowl 44: 6:52 on the clock, the Patriots drive 64 yards in ten plays finished by a 3 yard touchdown catch by Edelman to take the lead.
Super Bowl 51: 3:31 on the clock, the Patriots drive 91 yards in ten plays finished by a 1 yard touchdown run and a 2 pt conversion to tie the game. They follow it with an eight play, 75 yard drive to win the game in overtime.

Brady made those drives happen, not Belichick. As for "tough defenses" the only two losses the Patriots had in Super Bowls happened when the defense folded like a deck of cards in the final minutes leaving Brady with hardly any time left on the Patriots final drive. Heck, they only won SB44 because the Seahawks decided to get fancy and call a pass play on the Patriots one yard line. Seattle went 79 yards in 1:42 prior to that play, some "tough" defense.

Malcolm Butler was coached up for that pick there to save the game. Belichick had the right defense in place against a bad call on offense. Players not plays though right?

New England's great offense only mustered 14 points against two lucky plays on offense by the Giants in both losses. Defense did it's job.

Again. Brady is great. Belichick is great. But you cannot argue that Belichick's approach to the game is why they succeed along with his relationship with Brady.

Two way street. But I want the coach that builds said team. Not the one player who would more than likely be another Matt Ryan or Philip Rivers anywhere else in the NFL.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

Super Bowl 36: 1:21 left on the clock, the Patriots drive 53 yards in nine plays to set up Vinatieri's game winning field goal.
Super Bowl 38: 1:08 on the clock, the Patriots drive 37 yards in six plays to set up Vinatieri's game winning field goal.
Super Bowl 44: 6:52 on the clock, the Patriots drive 64 yards in ten plays finished by a 3 yard touchdown catch by Edelman to take the lead.
Super Bowl 51: 3:31 on the clock, the Patriots drive 91 yards in ten plays finished by a 1 yard touchdown run and a 2 pt conversion to tie the game. They follow it with an eight play, 75 yard drive to win the game in overtime.

Brady made those drives happen, not Belichick. As for "tough defenses" the only two losses the Patriots had in Super Bowls happened when the defense folded like a deck of cards in the final minutes leaving Brady with hardly any time left on the Patriots final drive. Heck, they only won SB44 because the Seahawks decided to get fancy and call a pass play on the Patriots one yard line. Seattle went 79 yards in 1:42 prior to that play, some "tough" defense.

Malcolm Butler was coached up for that pick there to save the game. Belichick had the right defense in place against a bad call on offense. Plays not players though right?

New England's great offense only mustered 14 points against two lucky plays on offense by the Giants in both losses. Defense did it's job.

Again. Brady is great. Belichick is great. But you cannot argue that Belichick's approach to the game is why they succeed along with his relationship with Brady.

Two way street. But I want the coach that builds said team. Not the one player who would more than likely be another Matt Ryan or Philip Rivers anywhere else in the NFL.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Odd, because Butler credits defensive coordinator Matt Patricia for the defensive preparation that led to him reading the play correctly. 

And in my opinion good coaches, while not numerous, are easier to find than a generational talent like Brady.

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Super Bowl 36: 1:21 left on the clock, the Patriots drive 53 yards in nine plays to set up Vinatieri's game winning field goal.
Super Bowl 38: 1:08 on the clock, the Patriots drive 37 yards in six plays to set up Vinatieri's game winning field goal.
Super Bowl 44: 6:52 on the clock, the Patriots drive 64 yards in ten plays finished by a 3 yard touchdown catch by Edelman to take the lead.
Super Bowl 51: 3:31 on the clock, the Patriots drive 91 yards in ten plays finished by a 1 yard touchdown run and a 2 pt conversion to tie the game. They follow it with an eight play, 75 yard drive to win the game in overtime.

Brady made those drives happen, not Belichick. As for "tough defenses" the only two losses the Patriots had in Super Bowls happened when the defense folded like a deck of cards in the final minutes leaving Brady with hardly any time left on the Patriots final drive. Heck, they only won SB44 because the Seahawks decided to get fancy and call a pass play on the Patriots one yard line. Seattle went 79 yards in 1:42 prior to that play, some "tough" defense.

Malcolm Butler was coached up for that pick there to save the game. Belichick had the right defense in place against a bad call on offense. Players not plays though right?

New England's great offense only mustered 14 points against two lucky plays on offense by the Giants in both losses. Defense did it's job.

Again. Brady is great. Belichick is great. But you cannot argue that Belichick's approach to the game is why they succeed along with his relationship with Brady.

Two way street. But I want the coach that builds said team. Not the one player who would more than likely be another Matt Ryan or Philip Rivers anywhere else in the NFL.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Exactly. It's the Bill Walsh-Montana and Montana-Rice debate. Individually all talented but when working together achieve tremendous success. 

You can argue who brings more between Brady and Belichick for a lifetime but theyve won 6 SB's together. thats insane.

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The Patriots have been to 9 SBs with Bill/Brady. Here are their ranks in points allowed per game in each of those seasons.

2001: 6th (17 ppg)
2003: 1st (14.9 ppg)
2004: 2nd (16.3 ppg)
2007: 4th ( 17.1 ppg)
2011: 15th (21.4 ppg
2014: 8th (19.6 ppg)
2016: 1st (15.6 ppg)
2017: 5th (18.5 ppg)
2018: 7th ( 20.3 ppg)

Amazing job by Brady to keep the other teams offense under 20 points so often.

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Malcolm Butler was coached up for that pick there to save the game. Belichick had the right defense in place against a bad call on offense. Plays not players though right?

New England's great offense only mustered 14 points against two lucky plays on offense by the Giants in both losses. Defense did it's job.

Again. Brady is great. Belichick is great. But you cannot argue that Belichick's approach to the game is why they succeed along with his relationship with Brady.

Two way street. But I want the coach that builds said team. Not the one player who would more than likely be another Matt Ryan or Philip Rivers anywhere else in the NFL.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Odd, because Butler credits defensive coordinator Matt Patricia for the defensive preparation that led to him reading the play correctly. 

And in my opinion good coaches, while not numerous, are easier to find than a generational talent like Brady.

Good coaching.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

You just need the greatest coach and QB of all time and you too can miss badly on some drafts

Also kinda silly to compare draft lists that include almost exclusively top 10 and top 5 picks vs a draft list that is almost exclusively bottom 5 picks.

It also discounts the fact that the roster is fairly constant there - you aren't replacing HC and GM every three years, re-identifying your offense/defense strateggy and bringing in new guys to fit the scheme.

Having a QB like Brady in place and a pedigree of winning also leads to some sweetheart deals by free agents looking to get a ring before the sun sets on their careers.

Might be better to look at the thumbtacks or Bills to see a comparable team's ability to identify and retain talent through the darft.

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The question of whether he can win without Brady isn't the issue.  It's whether he's a great coach WITHOUT Brady.  Maybe we'll find out one day.  I'll bet he retires when Brady does.

A great quarterback can make a good coach look great.

I think he'll stick around a little longer or move onto a new team to try and prove that he can do it without him.

Brady is all but done. I just don't see him playing in 2020. All of the moves he's made have him with one foot out the door.

You and I differ, then, C.

If Brady schedules a presser to announce he's stepping away from the game, I see Belichick having his own announcement within the week. What else does he have to accomplish? I don't see him wanting to build from the ground up, tarnish the legacy they had (other than the tarnishing they've done to themselves), and I imagine he'd be very well suited to a candid analysis segment on NFLN or something like Peyton's Place or that Gruden QB show a few years back.

Noll should have done the same thing when Bradshaw hung up the cleats; how many remember Lombardi as coach of the Redacteds? Bill has too much to lose in that situation.

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