Would like some examples of what Telvin was doing in the locker room that was setting a bad precedent

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I think it's a really good summary of what's gone wrong.

And one takeaway for me is the need for leaders (like Poz and Campbell) to keep some of the more headstrong, younger players in line. Although if players are really ignoring elder statesmen like Campbell now, then that's a big problem.

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That's certainly not what I got out of it.  The part of the front office that players had issues with is gone.  There were also players with egos issues.  One of them is gone.

Does that not mean the front office didn't have control and allowed everything to get where it did? Allowing certain players to stay, getting rid of players that could keep the younger players in check. Bad front office and management overall it what it all boils down to

So let me get this straight.  They were supposed to stop Poz from retiring?

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The front office issues is no longer an issue. Caldwell had our team knocking on the door of the SB. He'll straighten the ship but it may take a couple of years to do so. We had an stellar opportunity and blew it by hiring Coughlin to which I hate to admit. Proper defensive drafting in 2020 will steer us in the right direction.

Time Will Tell.

NH3...

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"AZANE"

The front office issues is no longer an issue. Caldwell had our team knocking on the door of the SB. He'll straighten the ship but it may take a couple of years to do so. We had an stellar opportunity and blew it by hiring Coughlin to which I hate to admit. Proper defensive drafting in 2020 will steer us in the right direction.

Time Will Tell.

NH3...

I honestly think that the hiring of Coughlin was as much of a PR move as anything, to bring back memories of 'the old glory'.  It came back to bite them in the [BLEEP] when he went back to his old ways and overstepped his boundaries.

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The front office issues is no longer an issue. Caldwell had our team knocking on the door of the SB. He'll straighten the ship but it may take a couple of years to do so. We had an stellar opportunity and blew it by hiring Coughlin to which I hate to admit. Proper defensive drafting in 2020 will steer us in the right direction.

Time Will Tell.

NH3...

You always make me laugh 

Time Will Tell

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Would like some examples of what Telvin was doing in the locker room that was setting a bad precedent

Would love to hear more about it too.

Personally, it wasn't that much of a surprise to me. Based on all his post-game comments and general media interactions he always seemed a little unstable and irrational.

Even that press conference when he started crying talking about Poz, which in general everyone fawned over, seemed a bit odd to me.

Of course, I am saying this with the benefit of 20-20 hindsight... at the time I didn't give a crap if Telvin seemed a little weird as long as he was playing at a high level.

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Would like some examples of what Telvin was doing in the locker room that was setting a bad precedent

Would love to hear more about it too.

Personally, it wasn't that much of a surprise to me. Based on all his post-game comments and general media interactions he always seemed a little unstable and irrational.

Even that press conference when he started crying talking about Poz, which in general everyone fawned over, seemed a bit odd to me.

Of course, I am saying this with the benefit of 20-20 hindsight... at the time I didn't give a crap if Telvin seemed a little weird as long as he was playing at a high level.

Yeah... that final year though during some of his pressers he came off as "I got my money, whatever" he had a weird attitude about him and I'm guessing certain players probably called him on it. It was hinted in this article that Campbell tried to reel some guys in and caught flack for it...
When a hot head like Ramsey starts going off it's the job of a vet like Smith to try and reign him in, instead I'm guessing he egged him on.
Probably was pretty vocal against coach staff, front office types, etc and that isn't a good look for young dudes.

Welp, 2017 was fun for what it was... but I look forward to a new era of players led by guys like Minshew, Chark, and Allen...

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Nope. Didn't say that at all. In fact. I have been saying for a few years now that 2017 was a fluke if you really look at the schedule and the quality of teams they faced. And they barely scrounged up 10 wins that year while still managing to lose to the Mariota led tacks twice, a Cardinals team led by Gabbert, a Jets team led by an over the hill McCown and a few other rookies on the schedule too I believe. 

They had to pull countless trick plays out of their [BLEEP] as well on special teams that year just to keep the incompetent offense on the football field longer. Don't be fooled. This team was far, far and away from being a legitimate contender with this front office in place. If they were that close we wouldn't have seen them collapse as bad as they did. 

They caught a lucky break that year on the schedule. That's about it.

And you know the devastatingly painful part of 2017?  Is how much the franchise invested in their own hype on that season and made franchise killing decisions because of the lightning in a bottle nature of one season in a decade.

As a counter point, let's make believe they didn't extend Bortles, what would be different right now?

Probably not much...  We just wouldn't have had to deal with Blake's dead money hit on the cap last year.  I prefer to make believe they didn't plan on riding Bortles into 2017 after his horribad 2016 season - It's much more depressing that way because we'd have Watson or Mahomes instead of Fournette

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Nope. Didn't say that at all. In fact. I have been saying for a few years now that 2017 was a fluke if you really look at the schedule and the quality of teams they faced. And they barely scrounged up 10 wins that year while still managing to lose to the Mariota led tacks twice, a Cardinals team led by Gabbert, a Jets team led by an over the hill McCown and a few other rookies on the schedule too I believe. 

They had to pull countless trick plays out of their [BLEEP] as well on special teams that year just to keep the incompetent offense on the football field longer. Don't be fooled. This team was far, far and away from being a legitimate contender with this front office in place. If they were that close we wouldn't have seen them collapse as bad as they did. 

They caught a lucky break that year on the schedule. That's about it.

I can agree with you to a degree. For example, I used to caution that it would be virtually impossible for the 2017 defense to ever score as much as they did that year. There were a couple games where they legitimately scored the bulk of our points. That would have been almost impossible to repeat. The defense was still good going into the following year. Minus some major offensive woes, I think we would have still been competitive. Suggesting that the entire year was a fluke is going too far. The Jags defense was built pretty solidly. If you replace Bortles with Mahomes the following year, you are looking at a game changer. If Coughlin never comes in, we lose Campbell (possibly), but gain Mahomes and lose Bortles? Yes please.

Not going to argue that Mahomes is a great QB. He's proven that early already between the Superbowl Win, the MVP title, etc. Front office blew that one for sure. Same can be said for Watson. With that said. I don't have that much confidence in this coaching staff if we were to turn back time and had Mahomes instead of Bortles. 

You simply cannot discredit the job that Andy Reid and his staff have done. And you also cannot discredit how great of a family the Hunt's are in the NFL and they've managed to take chances on players with questionable character while also finding enough balance to make Reid's system successful with Mahomes being the final cherry on the top. 

McNabb didn't have the killer instinct and arm ability of Mahomes to make it work with Andy. Smith also lacked that killer instinct and arm ability. But systematically Andy has ALWAYS been a damn, DAMN good offensive minded coach in the NFL. And his record speaks for itself. 

I don't know if Mahomes or Watson would have been successful under Marrone or the players we have on offense. Kansas City has two of the BEST premier players at TE and WR right now in the NFL. Kecle and Hill are the [BLEEP]. They were already doing game breaking things before Mahomes was inserted into the line-up. He put them over the top. 

It has to be a perfect storm between ownership, management, coaching and leadership on and off the field. The Chiefs have that. We simply don't. And that all starts with Khan. Highly, highly unlikely Mahomes would have had the same year here that he had in 2018 and just last year in a Jaguars uniform.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

So you're telling me that Coughlin is the reason this team went to the playoffs in 2017? Coughlin brought on Fournette and Campbell. The rest of the team was built. Swap Fournette with McCaffrey or Bortles with Mahommes, then take away the ego clashing with the players and TC. You think we still suck? I think you have to give Caldwell some credit.

Nope. Didn't say that at all. In fact. I have been saying for a few years now that 2017 was a fluke if you really look at the schedule and the quality of teams they faced. And they barely scrounged up 10 wins that year while still managing to lose to the Mariota led tacks twice, a Cardinals team led by Gabbert, a Jets team led by an over the hill McCown and a few other rookies on the schedule too I believe. 

They had to pull countless trick plays out of their [BLEEP] as well on special teams that year just to keep the incompetent offense on the football field longer. Don't be fooled. This team was far, far and away from being a legitimate contender with this front office in place. If they were that close we wouldn't have seen them collapse as bad as they did. 

They caught a lucky break that year on the schedule. That's about it.

The defense put up remarkably good stats that year, even for a weak schedule. 
The 11 starters on that defense, plus Dante Fowler as a 12th, were one of the best defensive starting lineups in NFL history.  Certainly the best squad in Jaguars history.
The real lucky break of 2017 was that none of those 11 guys got injured.  I think there was like 1 missed game in the whole group.
The talent behind them was pretty poor, as we found out in 2018 and 2019.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

Well, to counter that thought, look at what happened last year with Minshew. Is Minshew from last year in a better place that Mahomes would have been in 2018? Is Minshew a better prospect than Mahomes? I think the answer to both of those questions is no. Not only that, Bortles is let go after the 2017 season instead of being resigned. There's no resentment from other players that a terrible player got paid more than them. No Foles signed the following year. No cap hell forcing us to trade players. We don't let go of players for clashing with Coughlin.

I mean, it's fun to play what-ifs, but it's ultimately a waste of time. I just think this team was hurt by Coughlin more than Dave. I think this team was ascending when Coughlin came here, and now it's trying to right the ship. With the situation surrounding Yannick, I am questioning whether or not it was wise to keep Dave, even though I like him. There are times when a clean sweep is in order, but I also am realistic that it's hard to find a guy that finds talent. Dave seems to find it. That's all.

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Well, to counter that thought, look at what happened last year with Minshew. Is Minshew from last year in a better place that Mahomes would have been in 2018? Is Minshew a better prospect than Mahomes? I think the answer to both of those questions is no. Not only that, Bortles is let go after the 2017 season instead of being resigned. There's no resentment from other players that a terrible player got paid more than them. No Foles signed the following year. No cap hell forcing us to trade players. We don't let go of players for clashing with Coughlin.

I mean, it's fun to play what-ifs, but it's ultimately a waste of time. I just think this team was hurt by Coughlin more than Dave. I think this team was ascending when Coughlin came here, and now it's trying to right the ship. With the situation surrounding Yannick, I am questioning whether or not it was wise to keep Dave, even though I like him. There are times when a clean sweep is in order, but I also am realistic that it's hard to find a guy that finds talent. Dave seems to find it. That's all.

Caldwell has a chance to prove your sentiments above. I hope like hell he doesn't butcher these selections next month. I think the only way he keeps his job after 2020 is if the team at least pulls out 7 wins. Since Khan seems to have the lowest standards of any NFL owner at the moment and the patience of a blind Saint (Or he's nuttier than a squirrel turd or just has some kind of evil plan in place to alienate his fan base and city to move onto London).

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

Does that not mean the front office didn't have control and allowed everything to get where it did? Allowing certain players to stay, getting rid of players that could keep the younger players in check. Bad front office and management overall it what it all boils down to

So let me get this straight.  They were supposed to stop Poz from retiring?

We go thru this a lot but I guess need someone to interview Poz to find out but what was said was that Poz wanted to come back one more year to try to win a super bowl but the front office wanted to move forward without him to allow the young talent to gel. Instead of Poz going to another team (which he could have done because he was still producing, he just lacked in pass defense) he retired. The front office not realizing how much value he brought, they thought it was from their coaching and management when they did absolutely nothing.

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That's a great read and I'm very surprised about the riff between Jalen and AJ. I thought they had a good relationship. And I'm surprised that Telvin caused so many issues. Guess it's good he left. And as much as losing his talents, trading Jalen was probably the best decision. That 2017 season felt so much like a team and Duval against everybody, but it was just an illusion looks like. We may need to trade Yan and move on from him too. He seems to be all about himself right now as well. I can see how TC ticked him off, but he's letting that affect everything going forward. We need to start over with Minshew leading the charge and Calais leading one more year to bring the defense back together. I think Myles and Allen will take that lead when Calais retires/leaves. As bad as it feels losing all of these players recently, it might have been the best thing for us...

But but but Coughlin was the devil!, he was evil and poor players like Ramsey and Telvin had to suffer so much with him, we lost them because of him! he destroyed the Jags!

Are you like, literate?  You did see that it was both, right?

For [BLEEP]'s sake, is there even anything you like about this team, or do you just come here to [BLEEP]?

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So let me get this straight.  They were supposed to stop Poz from retiring?

We go thru this a lot but I guess need someone to interview Poz to find out but what was said was that Poz wanted to come back one more year to try to win a super bowl but the front office wanted to move forward without him to allow the young talent to gel. Instead of Poz going to another team (which he could have done because he was still producing, he just lacked in pass defense) he retired. The front office not realizing how much value he brought, they thought it was from their coaching and management when they did absolutely nothing.

Where did this come from?  Look up every single story about Posluzny retiring.  Posluzny retired because he was not playing up to the standards that he set for himself.  It was his decision alone.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nf.../32884979/

https://www.jacksonville.com/sports/2018...ent-letter


"This decision is mine alone, and although I know this will not bring me happiness, it is the right and honorable action to take at this time in my life. I cherished every moment of my NFL career, and it has been such a blessing to play the game for as long as I have played. I anxiously look forward to next football season to arrive, but this time with the sole focus of being a great husband and father for my loving family."

There was speculation by some people that they may go a different way, but this happened in March.

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But but but Coughlin was the devil!, he was evil and poor players like Ramsey and Telvin had to suffer so much with him, we lost them because of him! he destroyed the Jags!

Are you like, literate?  You did see that it was both, right?

For [BLEEP]'s sake, is there even anything you like about this team, or do you just come here to [BLEEP]?

But a lot of you act like Coughlin was the worst thing that could have happened here... he wasn't, he made some mistakes yeah, but you people blame him for pretty much everything. I also don't like the disrespect against him when our best years have been with him.

Why do you care if I like anything? my posts bother you so much put me on ignore if you are this fragile.

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Well, to counter that thought, look at what happened last year with Minshew. Is Minshew from last year in a better place that Mahomes would have been in 2018? Is Minshew a better prospect than Mahomes? I think the answer to both of those questions is no. Not only that, Bortles is let go after the 2017 season instead of being resigned. There's no resentment from other players that a terrible player got paid more than them. No Foles signed the following year. No cap hell forcing us to trade players. We don't let go of players for clashing with Coughlin.

I mean, it's fun to play what-ifs, but it's ultimately a waste of time. I just think this team was hurt by Coughlin more than Dave. I think this team was ascending when Coughlin came here, and now it's trying to right the ship. With the situation surrounding Yannick, I am questioning whether or not it was wise to keep Dave, even though I like him. There are times when a clean sweep is in order, but I also am realistic that it's hard to find a guy that finds talent. Dave seems to find it. That's all.

Caldwell has a chance to prove your sentiments above. I hope like hell he doesn't butcher these selections next month. I think the only way he keeps his job after 2020 is if the team at least pulls out 7 wins. Since Khan seems to have the lowest standards of any NFL owner at the moment and the patience of a blind Saint (Or he's nuttier than a squirrel turd or just has some kind of evil plan in place to alienate his fan base and city to move onto London).

The other reason, which I don't see that I've seen discussed here, is that Khan is a frugal business man. He would rather let contracts expire than to start doubling up coaching and admin salaries. I think being cheap is a perfectly valid reason, even if it doesn't promote winning.

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Caldwell has a chance to prove your sentiments above. I hope like hell he doesn't butcher these selections next month. I think the only way he keeps his job after 2020 is if the team at least pulls out 7 wins. Since Khan seems to have the lowest standards of any NFL owner at the moment and the patience of a blind Saint (Or he's nuttier than a squirrel turd or just has some kind of evil plan in place to alienate his fan base and city to move onto London).

The other reason, which I don't see that I've seen discussed here, is that Khan is a frugal business man. He would rather let contracts expire than to start doubling up coaching and admin salaries. I think being cheap is a perfectly valid reason, even if it doesn't promote winning.

Being cheap in competitive sports is a horrible business model. Especially when you're a [BLEEP] billionaire in a small market that has shown time after time that winning puts [BLEEP] in seats on Sunday's. A couple hundred thousand or millions of dollars is a fart in the wind to this guy. 

He had enough money to lend to Jr. to get that AEW program running. And he had enough money to buy that soccer team overseas as well. This guy is not frugal. He's ambitious. And he's up to no good with our city and this market.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

The other reason, which I don't see that I've seen discussed here, is that Khan is a frugal business man. He would rather let contracts expire than to start doubling up coaching and admin salaries. I think being cheap is a perfectly valid reason, even if it doesn't promote winning.

Being cheap in competitive sports is a horrible business model. Especially when you're a [BLEEP] billionaire in a small market that has shown time after time that winning puts [BLEEP] in seats on Sunday's. A couple hundred thousand or millions of dollars is a fart in the wind to this guy. 

He had enough money to lend to Jr. to get that AEW program running. And he had enough money to buy that soccer team overseas as well. This guy is not frugal. He's ambitious. And he's up to no good with our city and this market.

But don't you know what the city will be like without an NFL Team?

Probably not much of a change overall but the Florida v Georgia game will be next to go.  Still have beaches and outdoors and good overall environment.

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Birth of the Franchise - November 30, 1993
Death of the Franchise - November 29, 2011

Fans deserve better. Thanks for all the good times too many are in the past.