I can't find solid numbers for the COVID-19 Stimulus Bill... keeping it under wraps I guess.

Apparently they have something before that bill on the docket anyway.

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What are everyone's thoughts on those who are infected, feel nothing and never get tested? Could that number be in the millions at this point? I know I'm not going to get tested voluntarily. I say that because that could drastically change our perception on the mortality rate of this virus.

Harvard recently said the number according to the most recent studies say it's closer to a 1% mortality rate - which is still high.

If every one were tested the mortality rate would plummet. A 1% mortality rate is good or bad depending on the actual number of cases, and we have nothing but guesses about that number.

Fun fact: mortality rate has nothing to do with the positive/negative test rate. 

IMO - EVERYONE should be tested. When you possibly don't show symptoms for up to 14 days, EVERYONE that's been in contact with someone else is a potential carrier for this.

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I'll play you in ping pong. 

If every one were tested the mortality rate would plummet. A 1% mortality rate is good or bad depending on the actual number of cases, and we have nothing but guesses about that number.

Fun fact: mortality rate has nothing to do with the positive/negative test rate. 

IMO - EVERYONE should be tested. When you possibly don't show symptoms for up to 14 days, EVERYONE that's been in contact with someone else is a potential carrier for this.

Not disagreeing, but is that even physically possible?  Also, it's still pretty much voluntary.

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Fun fact: mortality rate has nothing to do with the positive/negative test rate. 

IMO - EVERYONE should be tested. When you possibly don't show symptoms for up to 14 days, EVERYONE that's been in contact with someone else is a potential carrier for this.

Not disagreeing, but is that even physically possible?  Also, it's still pretty much voluntary.

Not in January, February, or now.

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I'll play you in ping pong. 

If every one were tested the mortality rate would plummet. A 1% mortality rate is good or bad depending on the actual number of cases, and we have nothing but guesses about that number.

Fun fact: mortality rate has nothing to do with the positive/negative test rate. 

IMO - EVERYONE should be tested. When you possibly don't show symptoms for up to 14 days, EVERYONE that's been in contact with someone else is a potential carrier for this.

Funner fact: We're using Mortality Rate interchangeably with Case Fatality Rate, else people would misunderstand the point of the metric.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Fun fact: mortality rate has nothing to do with the positive/negative test rate. 

IMO - EVERYONE should be tested. When you possibly don't show symptoms for up to 14 days, EVERYONE that's been in contact with someone else is a potential carrier for this.

Funner fact: We're using Mortality Rate interchangeably with Case Fatality Rate, else people would misunderstand the point of the metric.

I get what you're saying FSG, but has anyone in this entire thread (besides you just now) referred to Case Fatality Rate? I'm fine using that as the official metric from now on. 

Still believe everyone should be tested. I'm fine with the mortality rate going down if we can ultimately flatten the curve and mitigate the risk to everyone.

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I'll play you in ping pong. 

Recent data says that the extreme is 14 days. The average is 5 days. So as soon as 2 days people could start feeling symptoms - still an extremely long incubation period.

I just want to buy toilet paper, dammit. lol

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Funner fact: We're using Mortality Rate interchangeably with Case Fatality Rate, else people would misunderstand the point of the metric.

I get what you're saying FSG, but has anyone in this entire thread (besides you just now) referred to Case Fatality Rate? I'm fine using that as the official metric from now on. 

Still believe everyone should be tested. I'm fine with the mortality rate going down if we can ultimately flatten the curve and mitigate the risk to everyone.

No one has used it because the Media isn't using it. By why would they? They won't get the panic response they are aiming for if they use correct statistical analysis for their reporting. The media can't account for Ascertainment Bias in their understanding of the impact of the virus nationally. That's why we have folks in this thread saying "Even 1% of 300 million people will be terrible", because they don't understand the difference between Mortality Rate and the CFR. I think your own bias is that everyone is going to get the virus, while I don't believe that numbers will be nearly as high as you do. 3.5% of 300 million (as initial reports framed it, triggering the current shopping and market panic) is not the same as .25% of the 100 million cases we're likely to see, probably still an overestimate since it is mostly based on early Chinese case history. It's not the Apocalypse if we simply act responsibly, testing everyone is just going to muck up the system for people who exhibit symptoms to be tested in a timely manner.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

I get what you're saying FSG, but has anyone in this entire thread (besides you just now) referred to Case Fatality Rate? I'm fine using that as the official metric from now on. 

Still believe everyone should be tested. I'm fine with the mortality rate going down if we can ultimately flatten the curve and mitigate the risk to everyone.

No one has used it because the Media isn't using it. By why would they? They won't get the panic response they are aiming for if they use correct statistical analysis for their reporting. The media can't account for Ascertainment Bias in their understanding of the impact of the virus nationally. That's why we have folks in this thread saying "Even 1% of 300 million people will be terrible", because they don't understand the difference between Mortality Rate and the CFR. I think your own bias is that everyone is going to get the virus, while I don't believe that numbers will be nearly as high as you do. 3.5% of 300 million (as initial reports framed it, triggering the current shopping and market panic) is not the same as .25% of the 100 million cases we're likely to see, probably still an overestimate since it is mostly based on early Chinese case history. It's not the Apocalypse if we simply act responsibly, testing everyone is just going to muck up the system for people who exhibit symptoms to be tested in a timely manner.

No, my bias isn't that everyone is going to be infected. My fear is that everyone could be infected without proper measures and personal responsibility being taken. It shouldn't be this hard for testing to happen, and it definitely shouldn't have taken this long.

And, just my opinion: Case Fatality is a much scarier term than Mortality. I don't believe that to be a MSM strategy. Probably more of a lack of understanding between the two terms.

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I'll play you in ping pong. 

No one has used it because the Media isn't using it. By why would they? They won't get the panic response they are aiming for if they use correct statistical analysis for their reporting. The media can't account for Ascertainment Bias in their understanding of the impact of the virus nationally. That's why we have folks in this thread saying "Even 1% of 300 million people will be terrible", because they don't understand the difference between Mortality Rate and the CFR. I think your own bias is that everyone is going to get the virus, while I don't believe that numbers will be nearly as high as you do. 3.5% of 300 million (as initial reports framed it, triggering the current shopping and market panic) is not the same as .25% of the 100 million cases we're likely to see, probably still an overestimate since it is mostly based on early Chinese case history. It's not the Apocalypse if we simply act responsibly, testing everyone is just going to muck up the system for people who exhibit symptoms to be tested in a timely manner.

No, my bias isn't that everyone is going to be infected. My fear is that everyone could be infected without proper measures and personal responsibility being taken. It shouldn't be this hard for testing to happen, and it definitely shouldn't have taken this long.

And, just my opinion: Case Fatality is a much scarier term than Mortality. I don't believe that to be a MSM strategy. Probably more of a lack of understanding between the two terms.

It's hard for testing to happen when government is in the way of the private sector. Funny that it takes a pandemic to see the problems and people still want government in charge of more of their healthcare. And I attribute most of the issues in the media to Dunning-Kruger or outright inflammation for clicks, but it certainly does appear that Trump is taking more than his share of negatively slanted reporting. Case in point, Trump has been pounding the podium about border control and when he closed the country to travel from China in January he was slammed for it by both the press and the Dems. Once that strategy proved to be solid the media suddenly forgot their position and actively covered up for the Dems by removing their criticisms from public view and changing the narrative to "testing failures."

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

On the cruise ship, with people confined for a month, only 17% of the passengers were infected. I consider that good news.

Also good news:  Treatment

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"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

Media Panic Healine of the Day: "US sees highest 24-hour coronavirus death toll increase since outbreak started"

Reality: 18 people died of Coronavirus-related illness on Monday.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Well all bars and nightclubs are closed for the next 30 days.

That's gonna suck for those business owners. Beaches to remain open though... unless local government closes them.. like Miami did.

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Fun fact: mortality rate has nothing to do with the positive/negative test rate. 

IMO - EVERYONE should be tested. When you possibly don't show symptoms for up to 14 days, EVERYONE that's been in contact with someone else is a potential carrier for this.

Not disagreeing, but is that even physically possible?  Also, it's still pretty much voluntary.

Testing everyone would be great, but it's not even remotely close to possible.  

Also, an uninfected result means little unless the test subject has already been in isolation for 14 days.  Assuming a negative result, the subject would then have to remain quarantined indefinitely (with others who have also been so tested and proven non-infected) until everyone else in the country had also tested negative.  If not, you could test negative one day and if exposed, become infected the next.

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When you get into the endzone, act like you've been there before.

Somebody wake up Ben Bernanke, we need a chopper pilot for all the money they plan to print and drop.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

The clown Mitt Romney wants to give everyone $1,000. Is there anyone more out of touch with reality than Mitt?

Hahahahaha oh dear

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DeSantis just suspended alcohol sales for 30 days too for alcoholic beverage license holders (those whose alcohol sales represent more than 50% of their total income).

For what purpose? This one stings for a bunch of my former brethren. Businesses will go bankrupt if they weren't already heading that way

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I'll play you in ping pong. 

DeSantis just suspended alcohol sales for 30 days too for alcoholic beverage license holders (those whose alcohol sales represent more than 50% of their total income).

For what purpose? This one stings for a bunch of my former brethren. Businesses will go bankrupt if they weren't already heading that way

I don't know if you remember Vietnam- "We had to destroy the village in order to save it." 

The medicine we are taking as a society to combat this virus is killing us.

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DeSantis just suspended alcohol sales for 30 days too for alcoholic beverage license holders (those whose alcohol sales represent more than 50% of their total income).

For what purpose? This one stings for a bunch of my former brethren. Businesses will go bankrupt if they weren't already heading that way

It has gone beyond stupid.  Government at all levels are taking draconian measures that communist countries normally take.  Let US decide if we want to go to a restaurant or bar.  Let US decide if we want to purchase alcohol, beer or wine (among other things).  We don't need a "nanny government" at any level dictating what we can or can not do.

I can understand the intent which is to limit crowds of people, but to hurt small businesses even more is just crazy.  I say let "natural selection" take it's course.

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

DeSantis just suspended alcohol sales for 30 days too for alcoholic beverage license holders (those whose alcohol sales represent more than 50% of their total income).

For what purpose? This one stings for a bunch of my former brethren. Businesses will go bankrupt if they weren't already heading that way

It has gone beyond stupid.  Government at all levels are taking draconian measures that communist countries normally take.  Let US decide if we want to go to a restaurant or bar.  Let US decide if we want to purchase alcohol, beer or wine (among other things).  We don't need a "nanny government" at any level dictating what we can or can not do.

I can understand the intent which is to limit crowds of people, but to hurt small businesses even more is just crazy.  I say let "natural selection" take it's course.

I know many of my friends who operate brewery taprooms with no food were utilizing crowlers or packaged beer to go as a workaround. 

I 100% have to believe it'll get clarified to reflect no "open-container" sales. What breweries are doing is no different than Publix or any other grocery store.

If it stands as is, it's a death knell for more than 80% of Florida's breweries

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I'll play you in ping pong. 

It has gone beyond stupid.  Government at all levels are taking draconian measures that communist countries normally take.  Let US decide if we want to go to a restaurant or bar.  Let US decide if we want to purchase alcohol, beer or wine (among other things).  We don't need a "nanny government" at any level dictating what we can or can not do.

I can understand the intent which is to limit crowds of people, but to hurt small businesses even more is just crazy.  I say let "natural selection" take it's course.

I know many of my friends who operate brewery taprooms with no food were utilizing crowlers or packaged beer to go as a workaround. 

I 100% have to believe it'll get clarified to reflect no "open-container" sales. What breweries are doing is no different than Publix or any other grocery store.

If it stands as is, it's a death knell for more than 80% of Florida's breweries

I sure hate to read that about any business. The world has gone crazy.

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