Police brutality, as it pertains to blacks exclusively, is a myth. We can talk about police reform, but stop propagating a lie. You ask why we give numbers, that's why. If you want to look at sentencing and certain biases, I think there's much better evidence for disparities. It's also improving. Colin Kaepernick did not kneel until he got involved with BLM, which is a socialist organization. There's a reason the kneeling HAS to be tied to the flag.

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Police brutality, as it pertains to blacks exclusively, is a myth. We can talk about police reform, but stop propagating a lie. You ask why we give numbers, that's why. If you want to look at sentencing and certain biases, I think there's much better evidence for disparities. It's also improving. Colin Kaepernick did not kneel until he got involved with BLM, which is a socialist organization. There's a reason the kneeling HAS to be tied to the flag.

I was simply answering questions about what the kneeling is intended to accomplish, and why they choose to do it during the anthem. You believe police brutality against black people is a myth, I don't. I lack the energy and motivation to get back into that debate again; we are not going to change each other's minds. You're right about the sentencing and other biases in the system, and certainly that is a basis for the protests too. I don't believe for a second that Kaepernick is expressly motivated by pushing a socialist agenda on America, and neither are the vast majority of people who support his protests. I see where the idea is coming from though; some ideas that are proposed to combat racial inequality have socialist ideals at the heart of them. Again, you see that as some dark conspiracy to turn America into Venezuela, I absolutely do not.

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Police brutality, as it pertains to blacks exclusively, is a myth. We can talk about police reform, but stop propagating a lie. You ask why we give numbers, that's why. If you want to look at sentencing and certain biases, I think there's much better evidence for disparities. It's also improving. Colin Kaepernick did not kneel until he got involved with BLM, which is a socialist organization. There's a reason the kneeling HAS to be tied to the flag.

I was simply answering questions about what the kneeling is intended to accomplish, and why they choose to do it during the anthem. You believe police brutality against black people is a myth, I don't. I lack the energy and motivation to get back into that debate again; we are not going to change each other's minds. You're right about the sentencing and other biases in the system, and certainly that is a basis for the protests too. I don't believe for a second that Kaepernick is expressly motivated by pushing a socialist agenda on America, and neither are the vast majority of people who support his protests. I see where the idea is coming from though; some ideas that are proposed to combat racial inequality have socialist ideals at the heart of them. Again, you see that as some dark conspiracy to turn America into Venezuela, I absolutely do not.

So you believe whats factually disproven and disbelieve whats factually proven. Do you realize how completely upside down you are? Probably not.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

The last three prominent killings by Federal police, the ones the flags actually represents, have been white. I wonder what Kaepernick's hate-America kneelers would do if white supremacist groups started claiming it for themselves.

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"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

I was simply answering questions about what the kneeling is intended to accomplish, and why they choose to do it during the anthem. You believe police brutality against black people is a myth, I don't. I lack the energy and motivation to get back into that debate again; we are not going to change each other's minds. You're right about the sentencing and other biases in the system, and certainly that is a basis for the protests too. I don't believe for a second that Kaepernick is expressly motivated by pushing a socialist agenda on America, and neither are the vast majority of people who support his protests. I see where the idea is coming from though; some ideas that are proposed to combat racial inequality have socialist ideals at the heart of them. Again, you see that as some dark conspiracy to turn America into Venezuela, I absolutely do not.

So you believe whats factually disproven and disbelieve whats factually proven. Do you realize how completely upside down you are? Probably not.

If you think police brutality against black people is factually disproven, and not, at the very least, debatable, then you are a brainwashed fool. Which you are.

---

As it is killings and shootings are exclusive to blacks, yes. It is not really debatable. It's very, very rare.

---

So you believe whats factually disproven and disbelieve whats factually proven. Do you realize how completely upside down you are? Probably not.

If you think police brutality against black people is factually disproven, and not, at the very least, debatable, then you are a brainwashed fool. Which you are.

Police brutality is not exclusively to blacks, which is what he said. We can see that police killings occur more often against whites, and statistically at twice the rate if one factors in violent crime percentage, the numbers don't lie. As far as more generalized "brutality" there are no statistics since brutality is a vague term, but it's far more logical to think that the non-killing brutality would have to be completely upside down from the killing stats for it to be even debatable.

So who's the "brainwashed fool" here?

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"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

On average 27 people die from lightning strikes per year.

9 unarmed black men were killed by police last year.

---

I'm not understanding what will change. Is kneeling going to fix something?

To answer both your questions in the simplest way possible, kneeling during the anthem is a protest against racism and police brutality. The goal is to raise awareness of these issues. Obviously, if you want to raise awareness about issues, you want your message to reach as many people as possible. Doing it during the anthem achieved that goal, in a peaceful manner.

The act of kneeling itself will not fix anything. The process of raising awareness of the issues is the starting point to actually having a national conversation about these issues, which, in turn, can lead to concrete changes being made to address these issues. Whether you like it or not, whether you think the issues are real and meaningful or not, that process has now begun in America.

In 2008 my shop supervisor retired, instead of promoting the most senior employee, I promoted a Black man to the shop supervisor position. I had at least seven White men working in my shop at that time that had more seniority (a couple black guys as well). My shop employee base is White, Black, and Hispanic ... I don't deal directly with the shop employees, the Black supervisor does ... Should I encourage him to have "The Talk" with the workers under him now that I am aware why people are kneeling? Oh, that's right, I already knew what the kneeling meant. I don't see what will be fixed. Maybe I should become racist, that way I can be fixed.

Police abuse every skin color, and they stand up for each other at times to a fault. 75 year old white guys are not immune.

---

To answer both your questions in the simplest way possible, kneeling during the anthem is a protest against racism and police brutality. The goal is to raise awareness of these issues. Obviously, if you want to raise awareness about issues, you want your message to reach as many people as possible. Doing it during the anthem achieved that goal, in a peaceful manner.

The act of kneeling itself will not fix anything. The process of raising awareness of the issues is the starting point to actually having a national conversation about these issues, which, in turn, can lead to concrete changes being made to address these issues. Whether you like it or not, whether you think the issues are real and meaningful or not, that process has now begun in America.

In 2008 my shop supervisor retired, instead of promoting the most senior employee, I promoted a Black man to the shop supervisor position. I had at least seven White men working in my shop at that time that had more seniority (a couple black guys as well). My shop employee base is White, Black, and Hispanic ... I don't deal directly with the shop employees, the Black supervisor does ... Should I encourage him to have "The Talk" with the workers under him now that I am aware why people are kneeling? Oh, that's right, I already knew what the kneeling meant. I don't see what will be fixed. Maybe I should become racist, that way I can be fixed.

Police abuse every skin color, and they stand up for each other at times to a fault. 75 year old white guys are not immune.

Sorry Sammy, I've read this a couple of times now and don't really see what you're getting at.

You seem like an intelligent man (colts thing aside) and it seems you want to treat people all the same. If that's the case then great, you keep on keeping on. Of course, your personal experience does not invalidate the experience of millions of other Americans who have been through very different things.

---

Police brutality, as it pertains to blacks exclusively, is a myth. We can talk about police reform, but stop propagating a lie. You ask why we give numbers, that's why. If you want to look at sentencing and certain biases, I think there's much better evidence for disparities. It's also improving. Colin Kaepernick did not kneel until he got involved with BLM, which is a socialist organization. There's a reason the kneeling HAS to be tied to the flag.

I was simply answering questions about what the kneeling is intended to accomplish, and why they choose to do it during the anthem. You believe police brutality against black people is a myth, I don't. I lack the energy and motivation to get back into that debate again; we are not going to change each other's minds. You're right about the sentencing and other biases in the system, and certainly that is a basis for the protests too. I don't believe for a second that Kaepernick is expressly motivated by pushing a socialist agenda on America, and neither are the vast majority of people who support his protests. I see where the idea is coming from though; some ideas that are proposed to combat racial inequality have socialist ideals at the heart of them. Again, you see that as some dark conspiracy to turn America into Venezuela, I absolutely do not.

When BLM uses the term comrade in their own propaganda...

---

On average 27 people die from lightning strikes per year.

9 unarmed black men were killed by police last year.

Did they ever come up with a mike drop emoji?

---

I was simply answering questions about what the kneeling is intended to accomplish, and why they choose to do it during the anthem. You believe police brutality against black people is a myth, I don't. I lack the energy and motivation to get back into that debate again; we are not going to change each other's minds. You're right about the sentencing and other biases in the system, and certainly that is a basis for the protests too. I don't believe for a second that Kaepernick is expressly motivated by pushing a socialist agenda on America, and neither are the vast majority of people who support his protests. I see where the idea is coming from though; some ideas that are proposed to combat racial inequality have socialist ideals at the heart of them. Again, you see that as some dark conspiracy to turn America into Venezuela, I absolutely do not.

When BLM uses the term comrade in their own propaganda...

---

On average 27 people die from lightning strikes per year.

9 unarmed black men were killed by police last year.

Did they ever come up with a mike drop emoji?

Don't you know that statistical refutation of systemic racism is evidence of systemic racism?

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

On average 27 people die from lightning strikes per year.

9 unarmed black men were killed by police last year.

Time to protest against lightning.

---

                                                                          

"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

I realize it doesn't help to site statistics when someone FEELS like something is true, even if it's not. I know you have to get true information into the discussion, but it's difficult to work around confirmation bias. I was trying to think of something irrational that I fear, even though it's untrue, and I had an epiphany of sorts. I looked up the statistics for child abduction, and the odds of my child being abducted by a stranger is similar to an unarmed black person being a shot. No amount of knowing the truth would ease the concern I have for their safety. So, how do you move past this feeling in the black community?

This is probably the primary reason I harp on the media consistently. Their primary job is to make money, and they continually profit by selling fear. We really need to start rejecting this kind of mass hysteria. I don't know how to even begin to address it, though. My first start is making news nonprofit.

---

If protests aren't about the flag as the Drew Brees proclaims, then why do they take place during a 2 minute event that is ALL about the flag and what it stands for?

Why not protest after the game or before/after the anthem? Do they not carry the same weight or meaning if less people are watching?

I'm not understanding what will change. Is kneeling going to fix something?

To answer both your questions in the simplest way possible, kneeling during the anthem is a protest against racism and police brutality. The goal is to raise awareness of these issues. Obviously, if you want to raise awareness about issues, you want your message to reach as many people as possible. Doing it during the anthem achieved that goal, in a peaceful manner.

The act of kneeling itself will not fix anything. The process of raising awareness of the issues is the starting point to actually having a national conversation about these issues, which, in turn, can lead to concrete changes being made to address these issues. Whether you like it or not, whether you think the issues are real and meaningful or not, that process has now begun in America.

Dude, all kneeling did was piss people off and blackball Kaepernick.

What finally got people's attention was George Floyd dying for over 8 minutes for all the world to see. It has made people see this problem in a way that nothing else comes close to. 

Kaep and the others who kneeled did nothing to start the process, the brutal murder of a man did.

---

National identity displays are inherently political. Players protesting is also expressing their national identity.. You just don't like what they are saying

It was good to see that Brees finally let up on the dishonest notion that players taking a knee ever had anything whatsoever to do with respect for soldiers and veterans or that attempting to force people to salute a symbol of the country is in any way consistent with the notion of a truly free country.

If anything the systematic repression of people he refused to acknowledge was the true disrespect to people that died for the rights of people in the USA to have life liberty and pursuit of happiness.

I support Bress’ freedom of speech, did he have to make an apology? No not one bit. Did he deserve the vitriol? Yes.

My father, grandfather and great uncles all served in the Army and Navy, fought in WWII and Vietnam. After those wars were over they came back home and were beaten by racists cops and civilians and still had to conform to segregation. One of my great uncles died in a sundown in Mississippi. My father who was extremely close with my uncle still carries grief and guilt to this day about witnessing his death in person.

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Whether someone has a liberal, or conservative viewpoint, a authoritative figure should not lock a thread for the sole purpose to get the last word in all the while prohibiting someone else from being able to respond.

The hypocrisy of people crying about flag disrespect because they had relatives who fought for freedom will never not be funny to me

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To answer both your questions in the simplest way possible, kneeling during the anthem is a protest against racism and police brutality. The goal is to raise awareness of these issues. Obviously, if you want to raise awareness about issues, you want your message to reach as many people as possible. Doing it during the anthem achieved that goal, in a peaceful manner.

The act of kneeling itself will not fix anything. The process of raising awareness of the issues is the starting point to actually having a national conversation about these issues, which, in turn, can lead to concrete changes being made to address these issues. Whether you like it or not, whether you think the issues are real and meaningful or not, that process has now begun in America.

Dude, all kneeling did was piss people off and blackball Kaepernick.

What finally got people's attention was George Floyd dying for over 8 minutes for all the world to see. It has made people see this problem in a way that nothing else comes close to. 

Kaep and the others who kneeled did nothing to start the process, the brutal murder of a man did.

I disagree. I'm not saying Kaepernick changed anything immediately by kneeling, but that act of protest started a conversation in America, albeit, as you say, by pissing many people off. But that conversation was started. The murder of George Floyd then brought the issue into a much sharper focus and, hopefully, will be remembered as a turning point in the battle for real equality in America.

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[quote pid='1306642' dateline='1591480292']
JagJohn
[quote pid='1306631' dateline='1591470810']
Sammy
In 2008 my shop supervisor retired, instead of promoting the most senior employee, I promoted a Black man to the shop supervisor position. I had at least seven White men working in my shop at that time that had more seniority (a couple black guys as well). My shop employee base is White, Black, and Hispanic ... I don't deal directly with the shop employees, the Black supervisor does ... Should I encourage him to have "The Talk" with the workers under him now that I am aware why people are kneeling? Oh, that's right, I already knew what the kneeling meant. I don't see what will be fixed. Maybe I should become racist, that way I can be fixed.

Police abuse every skin color, and they stand up for each other at times to a fault. 75 year old white guys are not immune.
[/quote]

Sorry Sammy, I've read this a couple of times now and don't really see what you're getting at.

You seem like an intelligent man (colts thing aside) and it seems you want to treat people all the same. If that's the case then great, you keep on keeping on. Of course, your personal experience does not invalidate the experience of millions of other Americans who have been through very different things.
[/quote]


TL;DR


It hurts to be labeled a racist because of the color of my skin. I’m a white people, and so far recently there have been so many people of all skin color tell me that white people don’t understand. They are right, I don’t understand.

So, I will try to keep this as brief as I can.

Bill – Bill retired a couple years ago, best machinist on earth. That trait didn’t stop at skill. If you were to ask me to name the person I admire the most as a person, it would be Bill. One job his entire life unless you count the two years he spent in Vietnam (Drafted). Over fifty years at the same job, and rarely missed a day. If Bill took a sick day, you would legitimately worry for him. First day I met Bill I really hate to admit that he scared me. Huge muscular man, very dark skin (Think Linebacker Toned Big), but two weeks later I realized how truly awesome of a person he was. Even though he has been retired for awhile, I still miss seeing him every day. I do get an opportunity to talk with him on occasion, even though he is a very quiet, and private person, he will stop in to keep up with us as friends.

Walter – Walter is my most recent hire (almost two years). His resume was horrible, he didn’t have anywhere near the experience required for the position he was applying for. Walter also had a federal record. He had a conviction for cocaine possession, and was still wearing an ankle bracelet for firearm possession, and pot distribution. He had been recently released on house arrest. I could get into the reasons why he was unfairly charged, but trying to keep this as brief as I can.

So, anyway … Walter’s resume. His most prosperous job in his life was at Long John Silver, he had zero welding experience listed, so I assumed he learned that skill in prison. A thirty something year old man making minimum wage? My initial thought after meeting him, and reading his resume was that he has never been given a chance. A real chance. Huge dark skinned black man (Think Nose Tackle Big), I (like I always do) gave him a chance ... I hired him. He started off very shaky, but man I will tell you, he has been such a great find. Like drafting Brady in the sixth. I have never met his daughter, but you can tell she is the light of his life the few times he has opened up to me. Another huge quiet family man that simply does his job (very well). I understand how imposing he must look to the people that haven’t been around him. I get that. But, just maybe he was never given the chance. Now? He makes almost three times what he did at any job he has had before his current position. He is happy, and so am I. I have no problem telling him that I appreciate him.

So the point is? … It hurts me to be considered a racist because of my skin color.

Now? I am wondering how Bill and Walter view me. I thought our relationship(s) were good, but I have to consider no matter how not racist I am, I will always be a racist by association of something I don’t know of. I  guess all of us are who we are told we are.

How do we change that? Stop labeling each other by the color of their skin. Police included. How about we start judging everyone individually, even though a lot of us already do. Instead of protesting the bad people, we throw a parade for the good people. Way more of us than there are of them.

Names have been changed to protect the innocent.

---

Dude, all kneeling did was piss people off and blackball Kaepernick.

What finally got people's attention was George Floyd dying for over 8 minutes for all the world to see. It has made people see this problem in a way that nothing else comes close to. 

Kaep and the others who kneeled did nothing to start the process, the brutal murder of a man did.

I disagree. I'm not saying Kaepernick changed anything immediately by kneeling, but that act of protest started a conversation in America, albeit, as you say, by pissing many people off. But that conversation was started. The murder of George Floyd then brought the issue into a much sharper focus and, hopefully, will be remembered as a turning point in the battle for real equality in America.

I can honestly say I have heard nothing in the years between Kaep kneeling and George Floyds murder that was positive toward change or a national conversation that didn't include opinions. Opinions do nothing if not backed up by action.  

Granted, I live in small town North Carolina, I do not live or die by the news, and I am not the targeted demographic for any foundations his protesting inspired, so I wouldn't know anything other than what the clickbait headlines (of stories I didn't read because sensationalism is not the way to get my attention) were proclaiming when it was still hot in the news cycle. 

What makes anything Kaep tried to achieve different than what Floyd's death did achieve is everyone is listening now in ways they haven't before. I know I am. It's one thing to be a person not many of us can relate to, in this case an athlete who gets paid a butt ton of money to play a game and even more in product endorsements, protest in a way that made no sense to a majority of the country without context. It's quite another to watch a man die who was relatable because he was a regular person like the rest of us. And he didn't just die. He suffered and no one did a damn thing. I guarantee you Colin Kaepernick has never suffered as George Floyd did. 

People of all walks of life were horrified by what we saw. Not just the black community, not just the minority communities, not just the poor(er) communities, but from ALL communities. The emotional response has been completely different than in times past when a black man was killed by a cop. Kaep had nothing to do with it. In fact, he probably wasn't even a thought in people's minds until the media brought him up. He's not as crucial to this horrific story as people like to think.

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