Well Ravens won a SB with Dilfer and Bucs with Brad Johnson so...
Foles was awful here
Minshew was a rookie and while he was good he wasn't gonna take us to the playoffs

Most of those players are either out of the league or having average seasons. 
Only Ramsey would make a difference here but his attitude is awful and he would probably make more harm than anything.

But hey Dareus and Church are FA's maybe we should bring them 
Gipson signed for like 1.5 million we had the cap space to sign him...

But as Bullseye pointed out, there were bits and pieces that needed replacing, not whole parts of the D. You act like I'm saying let's put a 60 year old Piz out there! 

What's your opinion of the current D then?

None of those players would help this team in a big way.
If Ramsey didn't have that attitude we wouldn't have traded him.

My opinion is this defense is gonna suck, what else can I say? 

FS and SS are awful (Harrison is average at best)
CBs Hayden is decent at NB. Hopefully Henderson is at least decent this season. Herndon looks like he will stay average at best.
LBs I don't expect a big improvement. Jack might be slightly better. Same with Schoebert. 
DL I actually think they will be a bit better than people expect. Smoot will be better vs the run than Yawn. Allen is Pro bowl talent at worst. I've always liked Jernigan. Jones, Bryan and Hamilton will be decent.
Wash is still the DC so...

---

"Treyvon Wallet is elite run defender and better overall than Aidan Hutchinson" 11/11/23

Ah yes, the Cody Kessler experience. That stud.

It's not too much to ask your D to pitch a shutout every week and score enough points for the W

Well Ravens won a SB with Dilfer and Bucs with Brad Johnson so...
Foles was awful here
Minshew was a rookie and while he was good he wasn't gonna take us to the playoffs

Most of those players are either out of the league or having average seasons. 
Only Ramsey would make a difference here but his attitude is awful and he would probably make more harm than anything.

But hey Dareus and Church are FA's maybe we should bring them 
Gipson signed for like 1.5 million we had the cap space to sign him...

First off, the Ravens did have Dilfer, but they had a very strong offensive line featuring Jon Ogden.  HUGE difference between their OL, and our decimated OL in 2018.

Secondly, Tampa's OL in 2002 was another good run blocking unit.  Once the injuries decimated the offensive line, we couldn't run the ball, either.

Third, you are penalizing that defense for NOT being the 2000 Ravens or 2002 Bucs?!?

Seriously?!?

Ramsey and Yan would both still be capable of making a difference here if both were happy and signed here.  Ramsey made the Pro Bowl last year, and in Yan's last game he produced ANOTHER fumble returned for a TD to cap of a 7.5 sack season hindered by an early season injury.

Of all of the GMs this team has had, Caldwell is the only one who has drafted a Pro Bowler at WR (Robinson and Chark), and found Hurns as an UDFA.


Name a better drafter in this team's history.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Well Ravens won a SB with Dilfer and Bucs with Brad Johnson so...
Foles was awful here
Minshew was a rookie and while he was good he wasn't gonna take us to the playoffs

Most of those players are either out of the league or having average seasons. 
Only Ramsey would make a difference here but his attitude is awful and he would probably make more harm than anything.

But hey Dareus and Church are FA's maybe we should bring them 
Gipson signed for like 1.5 million we had the cap space to sign him...

First off, the Ravens did have Dilfer, but they had a very strong offensive line featuring Jon Ogden.  HUGE difference between their OL, and our decimated OL in 2018.

Secondly, Tampa's OL in 2002 was another good run blocking unit.  Once the injuries decimated the offensive line, we couldn't run the ball, either.

Third, you are penalizing that defense for NOT being the 2000 Ravens or 2002 Bucs?!?

Seriously?!?

Ramsey and Yan would both still be capable of making a difference here if both were happy and signed here.  Ramsey made the Pro Bowl last year, and in Yan's last game he produced ANOTHER fumble returned for a TD to cap of a 7.5 sack season hindered by an early season injury.

Of all of the GMs this team has had, Caldwell is the only one who has drafted a Pro Bowler at WR (Robinson and Chark), and found Hurns as an UDFA.


Name a better drafter in this team's history.

I am not doing the Caldwell thing all over again, you wanna go? go back to read at old threads.
Harris was better
Tell me again the winning record for this team under Caldwell with and without TC.

Our 2017 Defense was great but not at the level of those 2. 
And like I said most of those players are either out of the league or having average seasons but feel free to continue to cry over their loss.
I am done with the Yan thing too, go back to old threads. He is good, not great, as the compensation we got clearly shows that.

---

"Treyvon Wallet is elite run defender and better overall than Aidan Hutchinson" 11/11/23

But as Bullseye pointed out, there were bits and pieces that needed replacing, not whole parts of the D. You act like I'm saying let's put a 60 year old Piz out there! 

What's your opinion of the current D then?

Not only that, he COMPLETELY disregards Pro Bowl caliber players!

Campbell was NFL Defensive player of the year while he was with us.

Telvin Smith made a Pro Bowl with us, won at least three different AFC Player of the week awards and had multiple TDs.

Yannick Ngakoue made a Pro Bowl, had a season with double digit sacks, and generally led the league in forced fumbles during the time he was here.  He was the catalyst to many Jaguars TDs, including the sack and FF Telvin Smith returned for a TD in the playoff game against the Steelers in the playoffs.

Ramsey?  All Pro...Pro bowl...even with the Rams.

I guess Haunting Raven prefers the Gene Smith era.

Wow really? pathetic.

Just FYI since your memory sucks... I was also a "troll" and a "hater" in that era for speaking against Gene when all the idiots were praising him and saying he was a genius.

I guess you love the team to be garbage since that is what this team has been since Caldwell became the GM and brought Gus and Bortles with him. Only winning season was with TC in charge.

Anyway enjoy another garbage season with your hero Caldwell as GM.

---

"Treyvon Wallet is elite run defender and better overall than Aidan Hutchinson" 11/11/23

First off, the Ravens did have Dilfer, but they had a very strong offensive line featuring Jon Ogden.  HUGE difference between their OL, and our decimated OL in 2018.

Secondly, Tampa's OL in 2002 was another good run blocking unit.  Once the injuries decimated the offensive line, we couldn't run the ball, either.

Third, you are penalizing that defense for NOT being the 2000 Ravens or 2002 Bucs?!?

Seriously?!?

Ramsey and Yan would both still be capable of making a difference here if both were happy and signed here.  Ramsey made the Pro Bowl last year, and in Yan's last game he produced ANOTHER fumble returned for a TD to cap of a 7.5 sack season hindered by an early season injury.

Of all of the GMs this team has had, Caldwell is the only one who has drafted a Pro Bowler at WR (Robinson and Chark), and found Hurns as an UDFA.


Name a better drafter in this team's history.

I am not doing the Caldwell thing all over again, you wanna go? go back to read at old threads.
Harris was better
Tell me again the winning record for this team under Caldwell with and without TC.

Our 2017 Defense was great but not at the level of those 2. 
And like I said most of those players are either out of the league or having average seasons but feel free to continue to cry over their loss.
I am done with the Yan thing too, go back to old threads. He is good, not great, as the compensation we got clearly shows that.

First off, while depleted, this team was still in better shape roster wise when Shack and Jack took over than when Caldwell took over.  When Shack took over, he already had guys like Stroud and Henderson on the roster.  I defy you to name anyone close to a young Stroud or Henderson Caldwell had on the roster around which to build.

I specifically mentioned three maybe four players from that team that should still be here.  Stop harping on ALL of those players and focus on the three or four I am talking about.

TC brought in most of the very free agents you dismiss now.  He brought in Campbell, Bouye, and Church, and also Fournette.  But don't act as if TCs team would have won without Caldwell's draft picks.  Fact is both TC players and DC players were instrumental in building that team.  Just because you operate under the delusion that 2017 would have won without Linder, Hurns, Telvin Smith, Yannick Ngakoue, and Jalen Ramsey doesn't mean I am so inclined to accompany you in fantasy land.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

I’m thinking some of this new salary cap money will go towards a contract extension for LT Cam Robinson

Why?  Robinson is mediocre at best.

You cannot say this. Up until his injury he played fairly well.  He's had the time to recover from his injury, this will become a make or break season. If he plays well, he will be extended. If not, he will be replaced in the draft.

---

Your beliefs become your thoughts,
Your thoughts become your words,
Your words become your actions,
Your actions become your habits,
Your habits become your values,
Your values become your destiny.

Walter Football....

Vikings acquire DE Yannick Ngakoue from Jaguars for 2021 2nd-round pick, 2022 conditional 5th-round pick
The Jaguars are so completely inept. They had an offer from the Raiders for the No. 19 overall pick in the 2020 NFL Draft. They were greedy and asked for No. 12 instead, so the Raiders declined. Jacksonville was willing to bet that it would get a better offer from another team, but that was not the case. Instead, general manager David Caldwell settled for a second-round choice in the 2021 NFL Draft, a class that will be difficult to scout properly because some dumb conference commissioners canceled their seasons.

Caldwell must be fired for this. The Vikings have a better chance of winning their division now, so it's likely that this pick for Ngakoue will be in the 50s. So, because of Caldwell's ineptitude, the Jaguars went from having the 19th-overall selection to 50-something. That's ridiculous.

Meanwhile, this is a huge win for the Vikings. They lost Everson Griffen to free agency and Michael Pierce to an opt-out, so it seemed as though their usually dominant defensive line would be worse in 2020. That's no longer the case, as Ngakoue will give Minnesota one of the top edge-rushing tandems in the NFL. This will be a huge edge in the division, as the Vikings will apply way more pressure on talented quarterbacks like Aaron Rodgers, Matthew Stafford, and, umm, whatever the Bears have.

Grade for Vikings - A+
Grade for Jaguars - (F)ire David Caldwell

---

Walter Football....

Vikings acquire DE Yannick Ngakoue from Jaguars for 2021 2nd-round pick, 2022 conditional 5th-round pick
The Jaguars are so completely inept. They had an offer from the Raiders for the No. 19 overall pick in the 2020 NFL Draft. They were greedy and asked for No. 12 instead, so the Raiders declined. Jacksonville was willing to bet that it would get a better offer from another team, but that was not the case. Instead, general manager David Caldwell settled for a second-round choice in the 2021 NFL Draft, a class that will be difficult to scout properly because some dumb conference commissioners canceled their seasons.

Caldwell must be fired for this. The Vikings have a better chance of winning their division now, so it's likely that this pick for Ngakoue will be in the 50s. So, because of Caldwell's ineptitude, the Jaguars went from having the 19th-overall selection to 50-something. That's ridiculous.

Meanwhile, this is a huge win for the Vikings. They lost Everson Griffen to free agency and Michael Pierce to an opt-out, so it seemed as though their usually dominant defensive line would be worse in 2020. That's no longer the case, as Ngakoue will give Minnesota one of the top edge-rushing tandems in the NFL. This will be a huge edge in the division, as the Vikings will apply way more pressure on talented quarterbacks like Aaron Rodgers, Matthew Stafford, and, umm, whatever the Bears have.

Grade for Vikings - A+
Grade for Jaguars - (F)ire David Caldwell

Well if that's not a scathing review...

---

Your beliefs become your thoughts,
Your thoughts become your words,
Your words become your actions,
Your actions become your habits,
Your habits become your values,
Your values become your destiny.

Not only that, he COMPLETELY disregards Pro Bowl caliber players!

Campbell was NFL Defensive player of the year while he was with us.

Telvin Smith made a Pro Bowl with us, won at least three different AFC Player of the week awards and had multiple TDs.

Yannick Ngakoue made a Pro Bowl, had a season with double digit sacks, and generally led the league in forced fumbles during the time he was here.  He was the catalyst to many Jaguars TDs, including the sack and FF Telvin Smith returned for a TD in the playoff game against the Steelers in the playoffs.

Ramsey?  All Pro...Pro bowl...even with the Rams.

I guess Haunting Raven prefers the Gene Smith era.

Wow really? pathetic.

Just FYI since your memory sucks... I was also a "troll" and a "hater" in that era for speaking against Gene when all the idiots were praising him and saying he was a genius.

I guess you love the team to be garbage since that is what this team has been since Caldwell became the GM and brought Gus and Bortles with him. Only winning season was with TC in charge.

Anyway enjoy another garbage season with your hero Caldwell as GM.

1.  Just because I didn't remember YOU that doesn't mean my memory sucks.  Assuming you were there, I was not among those calling you an idiot for any anti Gene Smith takes.  I remember plenty of people from this board going back over some 18 years (and longer counting former AOL and T-U posters.

2.  I HATE that the team has been garbage.  But I also believe in affixing blame where it deserves.  All things told, Caldwell's drafting has been pretty good.  He messed up on the Bradley hire.  He is to blame for player retention, though you could easily make the argument that Coughlin drove guys like Allen Robinson, Jalen Ramsey and Yannick Ngakoue away, not Caldwell.  Considering TC was in charge the last three years, two of which saw the team lose for two seasons and watched these players leave, maybe TC is getting off light in the Jaguars analysis.  With the Jaguars, he had 5 winning seasons to his credit and six losing seasons...no Super Bowls.  While TC often nailed first round picks (Boselli, Hardy, FT and DD, Stroud and Henderson), he often missed horribly in subsequent picks (Brian DeMarco, Bryan Schwartz, Chris Hudson, Mike Logan, James Hamilton, Cordell Taylor, Jonathon Quinn, Larry Smith, Anthony Cesario, Kevin Landolt, Eric Westmoreland, James Boyd).  he may not do enough to turn the team around this year.  He may well be fired after this year.  But I would put his draft performance against any other GM in this team's history.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Lmao it would be awfuly funny and peak #becausejaguars if we got rid of Yannick in order to pay Robinson.

---

Walter Football....

Vikings acquire DE Yannick Ngakoue from Jaguars for 2021 2nd-round pick, 2022 conditional 5th-round pick
The Jaguars are so completely inept. They had an offer from the Raiders for the No. 19 overall pick in the 2020 NFL Draft. They were greedy and asked for No. 12 instead, so the Raiders declined. Jacksonville was willing to bet that it would get a better offer from another team, but that was not the case. Instead, general manager David Caldwell settled for a second-round choice in the 2021 NFL Draft, a class that will be difficult to scout properly because some dumb conference commissioners canceled their seasons.

Caldwell must be fired for this. The Vikings have a better chance of winning their division now, so it's likely that this pick for Ngakoue will be in the 50s. So, because of Caldwell's ineptitude, the Jaguars went from having the 19th-overall selection to 50-something. That's ridiculous.

Meanwhile, this is a huge win for the Vikings. They lost Everson Griffen to free agency and Michael Pierce to an opt-out, so it seemed as though their usually dominant defensive line would be worse in 2020. That's no longer the case, as Ngakoue will give Minnesota one of the top edge-rushing tandems in the NFL. This will be a huge edge in the division, as the Vikings will apply way more pressure on talented quarterbacks like Aaron Rodgers, Matthew Stafford, and, umm, whatever the Bears have.

Grade for Vikings - A+
Grade for Jaguars - (F)ire David Caldwell

As harsh as this is, it's a fair argument considering the Raiders proposed deal.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Oh this year can [BLEEP] right off

And that's it folks. 3 years and its ALL gone. Thanks Yan, a joy to see you grow, wish we could have kept him but why waste your career with these coaches and FO.

And a 2nd and 5th rounder. Wow, Caldwell is a genius 

Dont worry, I'm sure we can draft someone 'just as good' and wait the 4 years for them to become a force.

The amount of talent we have shipped out of here.

 

I can relate, dude.

There is zero reason that nucleus of that 2017 team should be virtually obliterated by 2020.

I could see Poz gone.

I could even see Malik, Dareus, Church and Gipson gone too.  Maybe even Calais given his age and salary.

But Telvin, Jalen, and now Yan?

They should still be here, and we should be building a better team around them.

---

Oh he's definitely going to be less effective. He had Campbell and Ngakoue playing next to him, now he has.... well.. yea about that..

I guaran-damn-tee that when his contract comes up, fans are going to hold that wholly understandable drop against him, and will end up calling him the same things they called EVERY SINGLE PLAYER who had a contract issue with this team.

It feels like this was a decade ago, not only a couple years ago..

https://twitter.com/BenFennell_NFL/statu...2627124227

---

 

I can relate, dude.

There is zero reason that nucleus of that 2017 team should be virtually obliterated by 2020.

I could see Poz gone.

I could even see Malik, Dareus, Church and Gipson gone too.  Maybe even Calais given his age and salary.

But Telvin, Jalen, and now Yan?

They should still be here, and we should be building a better team around them.

---

I guaran-damn-tee that when his contract comes up, fans are going to hold that wholly understandable drop against him, and will end up calling him the same things they called EVERY SINGLE PLAYER who had a contract issue with this team.

It feels like this was a decade ago, not only a couple years ago..

https://twitter.com/BenFennell_NFL/statu...2627124227

But because the team struggled since then, every player on the team deserved to be jettisoned.

Just throw the baby out with the bath water.

I don't want to hear any complaints about the defense this year.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

It feels like this was a decade ago, not only a couple years ago..

https://twitter.com/BenFennell_NFL/statu...2627124227

But because the team struggled since then, every player on the team deserved to be jettisoned.

Just throw the baby out with the bath water.

I don't want to hear any complaints about the defense this year.

There's only 11 (12 counting McCray, but he opt'd out) players left in total from that roster. Huge amount of roster over turn in just a period of 2 years.

Why can't we ever have a decent Offense and Defense in the same season? The last few years the Defense had to carry this team because the Offense was such a joke. Now we have what could be a very capable Offense, yet now the Defense looks like it's going to be among the worse in the league.

It's just one damn thing after another with this damn franchise zzzzz.

---

 

I can relate, dude.

There is zero reason that nucleus of that 2017 team should be virtually obliterated by 2020.

I could see Poz gone.

I could even see Malik, Dareus, Church and Gipson gone too.  Maybe even Calais given his age and salary.

But Telvin, Jalen, and now Yan?

They should still be here, and we should be building a better team around them.

---

I guaran-damn-tee that when his contract comes up, fans are going to hold that wholly understandable drop against him, and will end up calling him the same things they called EVERY SINGLE PLAYER who had a contract issue with this team.

It feels like this was a decade ago, not only a couple years ago..

https://twitter.com/BenFennell_NFL/statu...2627124227

That screenshot alone puts it all in perspective. While Caldwell has shown that he has an eye for talent, he also fails to retain said talent. This hints at the culture of the lock room which must be attributed to the head coach. Caldwell's biggest problem is his head coaching hires, simply put.

---

Your beliefs become your thoughts,
Your thoughts become your words,
Your words become your actions,
Your actions become your habits,
Your habits become your values,
Your values become your destiny.

https://twitter.com/AlbertBreer/status/1...37664?s=19

---

He lost 19 mil last year, loses about another 7 mil this year than if he would of taken the 19 mil a year offer. Yan isn't a business man thats for sure lol. I think he has a down year honestly. He las lost 26 mil the last 2 years, lmao

---

Walter Football....

Vikings acquire DE Yannick Ngakoue from Jaguars for 2021 2nd-round pick, 2022 conditional 5th-round pick
The Jaguars are so completely inept. They had an offer from the Raiders for the No. 19 overall pick in the 2020 NFL Draft. They were greedy and asked for No. 12 instead, so the Raiders declined. Jacksonville was willing to bet that it would get a better offer from another team, but that was not the case. Instead, general manager David Caldwell settled for a second-round choice in the 2021 NFL Draft, a class that will be difficult to scout properly because some dumb conference commissioners canceled their seasons.

Caldwell must be fired for this. The Vikings have a better chance of winning their division now, so it's likely that this pick for Ngakoue will be in the 50s. So, because of Caldwell's ineptitude, the Jaguars went from having the 19th-overall selection to 50-something. That's ridiculous.

Meanwhile, this is a huge win for the Vikings. They lost Everson Griffen to free agency and Michael Pierce to an opt-out, so it seemed as though their usually dominant defensive line would be worse in 2020. That's no longer the case, as Ngakoue will give Minnesota one of the top edge-rushing tandems in the NFL. This will be a huge edge in the division, as the Vikings will apply way more pressure on talented quarterbacks like Aaron Rodgers, Matthew Stafford, and, umm, whatever the Bears have.

Grade for Vikings - A+
Grade for Jaguars - (F)ire David Caldwell

In Caldwell we trust!

---

https://twitter.com/AlbertBreer/status/1...37664?s=19

---

He lost 19 mil last year, loses about another 7 mil this year than if he would of taken the 19 mil a year offer.  Yan isn't a business man thats for sure lol.  I think he has a down year honestly.  He las lost 26 mil the last 2 years, lmao

LMAO less than Fowler

---

"Treyvon Wallet is elite run defender and better overall than Aidan Hutchinson" 11/11/23

He lost 19 mil last year, loses about another 7 mil this year than if he would of taken the 19 mil a year offer. Yan isn't a business man thats for sure lol. I think he has a down year honestly. He las lost 26 mil the last 2 years, lmao

It's insane how oft debunked lies like this keep spreading.

---

Another great player gone, happy to take a big paycut to leave, and vocal about wanting out.

Must just be a coincidence we draft only these type of players.

---

There really should be a required course on time value of money and peak earning years for rookies coming into the league during the symposium. And if there already is, Yan needs to be evaluated for CTE.

---