But i mean let's look at the other QB's over the past 3 seasons:
2020: Joe Burrow, Tua Tagovailoa, Justin Herbert.
2019: Kyler Murray, Daniel Jones, Dwayne Haskins, Drew Lock.
2018: Baker Mayfield, Sam Darnold, Josh Rosen, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson.

There a few guys who have moments like Murray, Herbert, and Burrow from last 2 drafts, but have yet to produce results better than Minshew. And honestly there isn't that much tape out on Herbert and Burrow yet.
Allen looked horrible until this year, year 3. Have to see if it persists.
Lamar had an offense built around him that plays into his elite running ability that no one can match and makes his reads easier, yet he still inconsistent as a passer and has fewer comebacks than Minshew.

So if I had to make a decision today, Minshew is probably not the guy. But honestly it is way too early to make that call. Plus You don't have to for 12 more games. And even if the season goes down the hole and they decide to draft Trevor next season, it is not like they will be cutting Minshew who then would become the best back up QB in the league.

I think you are failing to realize Minshew came in older and more polished than most of the QBs you're mentioning here.  Allen was much more raw than Minshew as a rookie, but way more athletic.  He appears to be turning the corner this season.  Its about what do you project a young QB to be down the road, rather than what they do in their first year and a half.  If you did that with Peyton Manning, he'd have been benched after his first 16 games in favor of some guy with less talent who was performing better in the short term.  Minshew might already be closer to his ceiling than most of the guys on this list.  Not saying he is, but it is too early to tell.  That's all.

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This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.

I really don't know why people expect Minshew to be perfect every single game. No QB is, not even the greats.

I feel that some people aren't even watching these games honestly. How can you sit here and watch this team the last couple weeks and point blame anywhere else but at this Defense.

Hell, Dak Prescott is throwing for 500 yards and 3+ TDs a game and they're still losing because their Defense is just as terrible as ours. At some point it goes far beyond QB play and this is where we're at. Our Defense is historically bad.

What good will it do drafting another QB in the top 5 when our Defense continues to give up 400+ yards and 40 points a game. We'll just be sitting here calling that rookie a bust by seasons end because we only won 3 or 4 games and everybody will be wanting to draft another QB in the top 5 again.

If the Top 5 QB turns out to be like Mahomes, its clearly worth it.  I don't think anyone here thinks Minshew is a problem... but many wonder if he is the solution.

This is a long-term rebuild.  If the new GM thinks he can do better than Minshew, he will go get one.  I like him, but I'm on the fence with him myself.  I want to see how he plays the rest of the season.

There's a higher likely-hood that a top 5 QB turns into Gabbert, Locker, Bortles, Trubisky or the countless amounts of other highly drafted bust QBs, than one turning out to be like Mahomes.

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If the Top 5 QB turns out to be like Mahomes, its clearly worth it.  I don't think anyone here thinks Minshew is a problem... but many wonder if he is the solution.

This is a long-term rebuild.  If the new GM thinks he can do better than Minshew, he will go get one.  I like him, but I'm on the fence with him myself.  I want to see how he plays the rest of the season.

I dont think this is a long term rebuild.  With the draft picks and cap room we have next year we can make the playoffs

No chance.  I love the optimism... but no chance.

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This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.

But i mean let's look at the other QB's over the past 3 seasons:
2020: Joe Burrow, Tua Tagovailoa, Justin Herbert.
2019: Kyler Murray, Daniel Jones, Dwayne Haskins, Drew Lock.
2018: Baker Mayfield, Sam Darnold, Josh Rosen, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson.

There a few guys who have moments like Murray, Herbert, and Burrow from last 2 drafts, but have yet to produce results better than Minshew. And honestly there isn't that much tape out on Herbert and Burrow yet.
Allen looked horrible until this year, year 3. Have to see if it persists.
Lamar had an offense built around him that plays into his elite running ability that no one can match and makes his reads easier, yet he still inconsistent as a passer and has fewer comebacks than Minshew.

So if I had to make a decision today, Minshew is probably not the guy. But honestly it is way too early to make that call. Plus You don't have to for 12 more games. And even if the season goes down the hole and they decide to draft Trevor next season, it is not like they will be cutting Minshew who then would become the best back up QB in the league.

I think you are failing to realize Minshew came in older and more polished than most of the QBs you're mentioning here.  Allen was much more raw than Minshew as a rookie, but way more athletic.  He appears to be turning the corner this season.  Its about what do you project a young QB to be down the road, rather than what they do in their first year and a half.  If you did that with Peyton Manning, he'd have been benched after his first 16 games in favor of some guy with less talent who was performing better in the short term.  Minshew might already be closer to his ceiling than most of the guys on this list.  Not saying he is, but it is too early to tell.  That's all.

Minshew was 23 years old (he's 24 now) when he came into the NFL lol. It's not like he was 28 years old when he came in like Weeden did. Stop with the he came in much older than everybody else stuff. The difference between 22 and 23 really isn't that big.

He went to Troy, Juco league, East Carolina and Washington State. It's not like he played for some power house team who was known for developing QBs at the NFL level. How polished could he have really been coming out of school.

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But i mean let's look at the other QB's over the past 3 seasons:
2020: Joe Burrow, Tua Tagovailoa, Justin Herbert.
2019: Kyler Murray, Daniel Jones, Dwayne Haskins, Drew Lock.
2018: Baker Mayfield, Sam Darnold, Josh Rosen, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson.

There a few guys who have moments like Murray, Herbert, and Burrow from last 2 drafts, but have yet to produce results better than Minshew. And honestly there isn't that much tape out on Herbert and Burrow yet.
Allen looked horrible until this year, year 3. Have to see if it persists.
Lamar had an offense built around him that plays into his elite running ability that no one can match and makes his reads easier, yet he still inconsistent as a passer and has fewer comebacks than Minshew.

So if I had to make a decision today, Minshew is probably not the guy. But honestly it is way too early to make that call. Plus You don't have to for 12 more games. And even if the season goes down the hole and they decide to draft Trevor next season, it is not like they will be cutting Minshew who then would become the best back up QB in the league.

I think you are failing to realize Minshew came in older and more polished than most of the QBs you're mentioning here.  Allen was much more raw than Minshew as a rookie, but way more athletic.  He appears to be turning the corner this season.  Its about what do you project a young QB to be down the road, rather than what they do in their first year and a half.  If you did that with Peyton Manning, he'd have been benched after his first 16 games in favor of some guy with less talent who was performing better in the short term.  Minshew might already be closer to his ceiling than most of the guys on this list.  Not saying he is, but it is too early to tell.  That's all.

Minshew came in older?  He was younger than Mayfield, same age as Allen, and just 1 year younger than Darnold and a half year younger than Jackson lol.

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I think you are failing to realize Minshew came in older and more polished than most of the QBs you're mentioning here.  Allen was much more raw than Minshew as a rookie, but way more athletic.  He appears to be turning the corner this season.  Its about what do you project a young QB to be down the road, rather than what they do in their first year and a half.  If you did that with Peyton Manning, he'd have been benched after his first 16 games in favor of some guy with less talent who was performing better in the short term.  Minshew might already be closer to his ceiling than most of the guys on this list.  Not saying he is, but it is too early to tell.  That's all.

Minshew was 23 years old (he's 24 now) when he came into the NFL lol. It's not like he was 28 years old when he came in like Weeden did. Stop with the he came in much older than everybody else stuff. The difference between 22 and 23 really isn't that big.

He went to Troy, Juco league, East Carolina and Washington State. It's not like he played for some power house team who was known for developing QBs at the NFL level. How polished could he have really been coming out of school.

You don't think the development from 21 to 23 is a big deal???  That is a clueless statement.  And Minshew's strengths coming out of college were his QB instincts and anticipation... weaknesses were accuracy.  Go look them up.  In other words, he was more polished that a guy like Allen in Buffalo.  Not sure why you're so worked up over that statement.  lol

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This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.

Murray has not looked good the last two weeks though. Yesterday he had 130 yards passing or something, with Nuke Hopkins on the field.
3 INTs the week before...

I'm not saying he sucks, or Minshew is better... I've long said of that class Murray was still the probable better QB than Minshew, but he's showing some signs of regression as well. 

But that all goes to your point about deciding on that class 4 games into year 2. Minshew has arguably performed better than most up to this point though, with less physical ability... so that should be promising yet some QBs are getting a pass while Minshew is getting trashed.

I haven't seen anyone is trashing Minshew or giving a pass to others.  If anything, Minshew is getting overhyped.  I'm not 100% sold on Murray, but what separates him from Minshew in my mind is athleticism.  Murray has a greater ability to improvise than Minshew, which I why I would place him ahead at this point.  Murray had Hopkins on the field yesterday, but Hop was playing with a bad ankle and it showed.  I have actually been more impressed with Burrows after 4 games than either of those 2 after 16+.

At one point Kyler this season had more interceptions than TDs and it was largely crickets from people that think he's much better than Minshew. Let Minshew run around doing that and all heck would break loose, lol. And people have definitely been trashing him  in various places. And IMO, Kyler is a better example of being overhyped than Gardner is). (And is not criticized nearly as much. He's been overhyped since last season and should not have won the OROY award over players like Josh Jacobs. There were people that said that the Jags as not winning any games this season, while saying Kyler would be an MVP candidate. Before either the Jags or Cardinals played this year. Yet he hasn't really looked any better than Gardner this year. 

I guarantee all of you that if we cut or traded GM15 tomorrow ....
there would be a line of teams out the door to sign him up.
Other teams see his potential and until we get rid of "Phony Bologna" and "wash woman"
continuing to draft players and ruining them with these two clowns is what we're going to get until
they're G-O-N-E. 

There would be teams that would want to sign him. And I could see that number growing as he the season progresses and he puts up good productions. Before the Miami game happened, Brian Flores stated that Gardner was someone that the Dolphins had liked coming out of college. I thought that was interesting. Prior to that the only teams that I had heard were interested in Gardner before the draft were the Jags/Bears. I didn't know that the Dolphins had been interested in him as well.  I wonder what would have happened if he had went to Miami instead. I do think that more teams will end up showing interest in him as time goes on.

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I think you are failing to realize Minshew came in older and more polished than most of the QBs you're mentioning here.  Allen was much more raw than Minshew as a rookie, but way more athletic.  He appears to be turning the corner this season.  Its about what do you project a young QB to be down the road, rather than what they do in their first year and a half.  If you did that with Peyton Manning, he'd have been benched after his first 16 games in favor of some guy with less talent who was performing better in the short term.  Minshew might already be closer to his ceiling than most of the guys on this list.  Not saying he is, but it is too early to tell.  That's all.

Minshew came in older?  He was younger than Mayfield, same age as Allen, and just 1 year younger than Darnold and a half year younger than Jackson lol.

What you meant to say was:

Relative to other QB's, when Minshew came into the NFL, he was: a) the same age as Mayfield; b) a year older than Allen; c) 2 years older than Darnold; and d) a year older than Jackson.

I corrected it for you.  You're welcome.

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This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.

Minshew was 23 years old (he's 24 now) when he came into the NFL lol. It's not like he was 28 years old when he came in like Weeden did. Stop with the he came in much older than everybody else stuff. The difference between 22 and 23 really isn't that big.

He went to Troy, Juco league, East Carolina and Washington State. It's not like he played for some power house team who was known for developing QBs at the NFL level. How polished could he have really been coming out of school.

You don't think the development from 21 to 23 is a big deal???  That is a clueless statement.  And Minshew's strengths coming out of college were his QB instincts and anticipation... weaknesses were accuracy.  Go look them up.  In other words, he was more polished that a guy like Allen in Buffalo.  Not sure why you're so worked up over that statement.  lol

We all know Allen was a raw prospect coming out. There's a bunch of other guys on that list though.

Depends on who's doing the developing, but I think the development from 23-26 is a bigger deal than 21-23.

I live in WA state so I got to watch a bunch of Minshew during his 1 year there. I wasn't really even that big on him coming out. Thought he was just a product of Leech's system, which is typically the case for Leech's QBs at the next level. Accuracy was not much of a problem for him that year.

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You don't think the development from 21 to 23 is a big deal???  That is a clueless statement.  And Minshew's strengths coming out of college were his QB instincts and anticipation... weaknesses were accuracy.  Go look them up.  In other words, he was more polished that a guy like Allen in Buffalo.  Not sure why you're so worked up over that statement.  lol

We all know Allen was a raw prospect coming out. There's a bunch of other guys on that list though.

Depends on who's doing the developing, but I think the development from 23-26 is a bigger deal than 21-23.

I live in WA state so I got to watch a bunch of Minshew during his 1 year there. I wasn't really even that big on him coming out. Thought he was just a product of Leech's system, which is typically the case for Leech's QBs at the next level. Accuracy was not much of a problem for him that year.

I'm just saying... if you are a GM right now, are you actually taking Minshew over Kyler Murray for the next 10 years?  I'm not.

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This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.

We all know Allen was a raw prospect coming out. There's a bunch of other guys on that list though.

Depends on who's doing the developing, but I think the development from 23-26 is a bigger deal than 21-23.

I live in WA state so I got to watch a bunch of Minshew during his 1 year there. I wasn't really even that big on him coming out. Thought he was just a product of Leech's system, which is typically the case for Leech's QBs at the next level. Accuracy was not much of a problem for him that year.

I'm just saying... if you are a GM right now, are you actually taking Minshew over Kyler Murray for the next 10 years?  I'm not.

I would say right now neither has shown me a lot to put all my faith in them. Both have had their ups and downs. I am still really pulling for Minshew.

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I'm just saying... if you are a GM right now, are you actually taking Minshew over Kyler Murray for the next 10 years?  I'm not.

I would say right now neither has shown me a lot to put all my faith in them. Both have had their ups and downs. I am still really pulling for Minshew.

I'm not all in on Kyler either.  But I have him ahead of Minshew.  The only people who don't live in Duval County (or Washington State)  

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This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.

I think you are failing to realize Minshew came in older and more polished than most of the QBs you're mentioning here.  Allen was much more raw than Minshew as a rookie, but way more athletic.  He appears to be turning the corner this season.  Its about what do you project a young QB to be down the road, rather than what they do in their first year and a half.  If you did that with Peyton Manning, he'd have been benched after his first 16 games in favor of some guy with less talent who was performing better in the short term.  Minshew might already be closer to his ceiling than most of the guys on this list.  Not saying he is, but it is too early to tell.  That's all.

Minshew was 23 years old (he's 24 now) when he came into the NFL lol. It's not like he was 28 years old when he came in like Weeden did. Stop with the he came in much older than everybody else stuff. The difference between 22 and 23 really isn't that big.

He went to Troy, Juco league, East Carolina and Washington State. It's not like he played for some power house team who was known for developing QBs at the NFL level. How polished could he have really been coming out of school.

I think you are failing to realize Minshew came in older and more polished than most of the QBs you're mentioning here.  Allen was much more raw than Minshew as a rookie, but way more athletic.  He appears to be turning the corner this season.  Its about what do you project a young QB to be down the road, rather than what they do in their first year and a half.  If you did that with Peyton Manning, he'd have been benched after his first 16 games in favor of some guy with less talent who was performing better in the short term.  Minshew might already be closer to his ceiling than most of the guys on this list.  Not saying he is, but it is too early to tell.  That's all.

Minshew came in older?  He was younger than Mayfield, same age as Allen, and just 1 year younger than Darnold and a half year younger than Jackson lol.

I was just going to say it's not like he was Brandon Weeden, lol. The way Minshew is being painted as an "older" QB is funny, lol. Interestingly enough some critics said the same thing about Baker Mayfield who also came in at 23.  I think that some people like to poke at him and Baker, (especially Baker) to make themselves feel better about why some of the younger QB's like Sam Darnold haven't been performing that well. Colin Cowherd comes to mind, he's one that has poked at Baker for being "older" while constantly trying to uplift Sam Darnold, in spite of Sam's struggles.

Could there be advantages to coming in a little order with more college experience? Sure. It didn't hurt and (probably helped to a degree) Gardner and someone like Dak Prescott who also was 23 his rookie year. But is it some massive advantage over younger players. I don't think so. Especially if the younger players have been in the league longer than Gardner has. And were drafted to better organizations given/more support than he has.

Just because someone is older than someone in a situation doesn't mean they are automatically going to be ahead of the other young people. And they are all young and the age gap between them is not big enough IMO, to say his age/college experience gives him a much better advantage over them. It's not like he's 43 year old seasoned veteran Tom Brady going up against the young players. 

Some people are going to perform better out of the gate regardless of what their age is. And Gardner strikes me as the type of person that always been more mature no matter what his age is. This is the same guy that took over as starting QB in his freshman year in college and didn't let that job go. Likewise some people seem "young" and make "young" people mistakes no matter how old they get. Which is why sometimes you will still see an older QB make mistakes that a younger QB might make. (like throwing bad interceptions).

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Minshew was 23 years old (he's 24 now) when he came into the NFL lol. It's not like he was 28 years old when he came in like Weeden did. Stop with the he came in much older than everybody else stuff. The difference between 22 and 23 really isn't that big.

He went to Troy, Juco league, East Carolina and Washington State. It's not like he played for some power house team who was known for developing QBs at the NFL level. How polished could he have really been coming out of school.

Minshew came in older?  He was younger than Mayfield, same age as Allen, and just 1 year younger than Darnold and a half year younger than Jackson lol.

I was just going to say it's not like he was Brandon Weeden, lol. The way Minshew is being painted as an "older" QB is funny, lol. Interestingly enough some critics said the same thing about Baker Mayfield who also came in at 23. 

Could there be advantages to coming in a little order with more college experience? Sure. It didn't hurt and (probably helped to a degree) Gardner and someone like Dak Prescott who also was 23 his rookie year. But is it some massive advantage over younger players. I don't think so. Especially if the younger players have been in the league longer than Gardner has. And were drafted to better organizations given/more support than he has.

Just because someone is older than someone in a situation doesn't mean they are automatically going to be ahead of the other young people. They are all young and the age gap between them is not big enough IMO, to say his age/college experience gives him a much better advantage over them. It's not like he's 43 year old seasoned veteran Tom Brady going up against the young players. Some people are going to perform better out of the gate regardless of what their age is. And Gardner strikes me as the type of person that always been more mature no matter what his age is. This is the same guy that took over as starting QB in his freshman year and didn't let that job go. Likewise some people seem "young" no matter how old they get. Which is why sometimes you will still see an older QB make mistakes that a younger QB might make. (like throwing bad interceptions).

He was a little older, but a more suitable term I could have used was a more "polished" or "mature" QB.  In other words, a player who was not as "raw" and closer to his ceiling already than a lot of others in the draft class. Could be a better player early, less projected value down the road. Its still early in the evaluation process, so we will see.

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This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.

He was a little older, but a more suitable term I could have used was a more "polished" or "mature" QB.  In other words, a player who was not as "raw" and closer to his ceiling already than a lot of others in the draft class.  Could be a better player early, less projected value down the road.  Its still early in the evaluation process, so we will see.

Agreed,  Minshew is serviceable and not the reason we are 1-3 so far. I felt everyone was playing hard during the game. (did not see anyone taking plays off) I do wish when our QB is scrambling the receivers could try and help him more by looking for open grass and not standing next to the opposition. We are 1-3 because our D cannot stop anyone, but then a lot of defenses are struggling this year. We are impacted more because of all the new faces.  Relax and endure the ride, it may get you the changes to management so many seem to desire.

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A new broom always sweeps clean.

Minshew came in older?  He was younger than Mayfield, same age as Allen, and just 1 year younger than Darnold and a half year younger than Jackson lol.

What you meant to say was:

Relative to other QB's, when Minshew came into the NFL, he was: a) the same age as Mayfield; b) a year older than Allen; c) 2 years older than Darnold; and d) a year older than Jackson.

I corrected it for you.  You're welcome.

Mayfield is 11 months older than Minshew and Josh Allen 5 days younger than Minshew, Darnold is 1 year and a couple weeks younger than Darnold, and Jackson is like half a year younger than Minshew.  Where are you getting you dates at?  lol

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Mayfield is 11 months older than Minshew and Josh Allen 5 days younger than Minshew, Darnold is 1 year and a couple weeks younger than Darnold, and Jackson is like half a year younger than Minshew.  Where are you getting you dates at?  lol

He was using age at their respective drafts. You're comparing people who are younger than him and also were drafted a full year ahead of him. That is extremely intellectually dishonest.

The point is that he is 1-2 years older than most of the people he was drafted alongside, and yes that is a significant difference at that point of their developement.

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Mayfield is 11 months older than Minshew and Josh Allen 5 days younger than Minshew, Darnold is 1 year and a couple weeks younger than Darnold, and Jackson is like half a year younger than Minshew.  Where are you getting you dates at?  lol

He was using age at their respective drafts. You're comparing people who are younger than him and also were drafted a full year ahead of him. That is extremely intellectually dishonest.

The point is that he is 1-2 years older than most of the people he was drafted alongside, and yes that is a significant difference at that point of their developement.

Dude is 1 year difference from Murray, Lock, and Haskins.  He is pretty much 1 year older.  If you think its a significant difference than Ok.

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I was just going to say it's not like he was Brandon Weeden, lol. The way Minshew is being painted as an "older" QB is funny, lol. Interestingly enough some critics said the same thing about Baker Mayfield who also came in at 23. 

Could there be advantages to coming in a little order with more college experience? Sure. It didn't hurt and (probably helped to a degree) Gardner and someone like Dak Prescott who also was 23 his rookie year. But is it some massive advantage over younger players. I don't think so. Especially if the younger players have been in the league longer than Gardner has. And were drafted to better organizations given/more support than he has.

Just because someone is older than someone in a situation doesn't mean they are automatically going to be ahead of the other young people. They are all young and the age gap between them is not big enough IMO, to say his age/college experience gives him a much better advantage over them. It's not like he's 43 year old seasoned veteran Tom Brady going up against the young players. Some people are going to perform better out of the gate regardless of what their age is. And Gardner strikes me as the type of person that always been more mature no matter what his age is. This is the same guy that took over as starting QB in his freshman year and didn't let that job go. Likewise some people seem "young" no matter how old they get. Which is why sometimes you will still see an older QB make mistakes that a younger QB might make. (like throwing bad interceptions).

He was a little older, but a more suitable term I could have used was a more "polished" or "mature" QB.  In other words, a player who was not as "raw" and closer to his ceiling already than a lot of others in the draft class.  Could be a better player early, less projected value down the road.  Its still early in the evaluation process, so we will see.

My bad, yore saying when he came into the league,

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He was a little older, but a more suitable term I could have used was a more "polished" or "mature" QB.  In other words, a player who was not as "raw" and closer to his ceiling already than a lot of others in the draft class.  Could be a better player early, less projected value down the road.  Its still early in the evaluation process, so we will see.

My bad, yore saying when he came into the league,

Yes.  That's what I was talking about in terms of development.

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This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.

Minshew’s biggest problem is trying to make something big happen every single play. The defense quickly allows the game to get out of control and he overcompensates. Y’all are really hyping up his mistakes. It also doesn’t help that the coaching staff abandoned the run too early in at least top games this year.

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