I’m comparing how good Minshew’s first four games were and how some are ready to move on from him while also using Burrow’s first four games as proof he’s a future star. We don’t know where Burrow will go. I do remember that Minshew was poised until he kept getting hit repeatedly. That’s when we started seeing the happy feet occasionally.

As for this year? I don’t know what his excuse is but good QBs sometimes regress before getting better. It isn’t like he’s a bad QB.

Maybe you don't, but I knew a future star when I see one. 

I never said Minshew was a bad QB. He isn't. He's just not a franchise QB. I see his ceiling being that of Jay Cutler and that's not what we are looking for.

---

I’m comparing how good Minshew’s first four games were and how some are ready to move on from him while also using Burrow’s first four games as proof he’s a future star. We don’t know where Burrow will go. I do remember that Minshew was poised until he kept getting hit repeatedly. That’s when we started seeing the happy feet occasionally.

As for this year? I don’t know what his excuse is but good QBs sometimes regress before getting better. It isn’t like he’s a bad QB.

Maybe you don't, but I knew a future star when I see one. 

I never said Minshew was a bad QB. He isn't. He's just not a franchise QB. I see his ceiling being that of Jay Cutler and that's not what we are looking for.

How do you define a franchise QB? If you're talking about Patrick Mahommes or Russel Wilson, I completely agree he'll never be those guys. But surely a QB doesn't have to play like that to be a franchise QB. Right now there's not that much to differentiate the performance of Burrow from Murray from Minshew other than a little bit of arm strength. I think he *might* become a Deshaun Watson (as far as importance, not playing style) by his third or fourth year.  I don't think you want to give him to long to figure it out though. We should have a better idea by the end of this year. I wouldn't go on the basis of just the last two games.

---

I'm condescending. That means I talk down to you. 
Check out the Jag's Forum Alternative: Duval Football Fans.

Maybe you don't, but I knew a future star when I see one. 

I never said Minshew was a bad QB. He isn't. He's just not a franchise QB. I see his ceiling being that of Jay Cutler and that's not what we are looking for.

How do you define a franchise QB? If you're talking about Patrick Mahommes or Russel Wilson, I completely agree he'll never be those guys. But surely a QB doesn't have to play like that to be a franchise QB. Right now there's not that much to differentiate the performance of Burrow from Murray from Minshew other than a little bit of arm strength. I think he *might* become a Deshaun Watson (as far as importance, not playing style) by his third or fourth year.  I don't think you want to give him to long to figure it out though. We should have a better idea by the end of this year. I wouldn't go on the basis of just the last two games.

How do you know if he will ever be a Mahomes or Wilson type? I define a franchise QB as someone that passes the eyeball test. A QB that can process information quickly, go through his progressions in a hurry and has the confidence to make the right read and get the ball out in a hurry. To me, that is football I.Q. and Burrow is showing that through 4 games. I'm shocked he's showing these traits this early and I know he's bound to have some bumps in the road, being behind such a putrid O-Line, but what he is doing with so little, amazes me. He doesn't get spooked when the pocket collapses. He maintains his composure and takes what the defense gives him. That is a veteran move.

---

#15 has made some mistakes, but hes exciting to watch. He meeds to keep improving. The deffense not playing very well so it puts a lot of pressure on the offense

---

How do you define a franchise QB? If you're talking about Patrick Mahommes or Russel Wilson, I completely agree he'll never be those guys. But surely a QB doesn't have to play like that to be a franchise QB. Right now there's not that much to differentiate the performance of Burrow from Murray from Minshew other than a little bit of arm strength. I think he *might* become a Deshaun Watson (as far as importance, not playing style) by his third or fourth year.  I don't think you want to give him to long to figure it out though. We should have a better idea by the end of this year. I wouldn't go on the basis of just the last two games.

How do you know if he will ever be a Mahomes or Wilson type? I define a franchise QB as someone that passes the eyeball test. A QB that can process information quickly, go through his progressions in a hurry and has the confidence to make the right read and get the ball out in a hurry. To me, that is football I.Q. and Burrow is showing that through 4 games. I'm shocked he's showing these traits this early and I know he's bound to have some bumps in the road, being behind such a putrid O-Line, but what he is doing with so little, amazes me. He doesn't get spooked when the pocket collapses. He maintains his composure and takes what the defense gives him. That is a veteran move.

I  agree with you. I see some special traits in Burrow.  Poise, football IQ, leadership, pocket presence, and athleticism.  I've been very impressed and could see him as elite down the road.

---

This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.

It could be worse. We could have drafted Haskins...

---

It could be worse. We could have drafted Haskins...

Which quite a few fans wanted to.

---

It could be worse. We could have drafted Haskins...

Which quite a few fans wanted to.

Maybe 2% worse.  When you're at the bottom, there isn't much more room to go down.  

---

This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.

Which quite a few fans wanted to.

Maybe 2% worse.  When you're at the bottom, there isn't much more room to go down.  

Fair, right now we can only look at 2 or 3 franchises and be like "at least we're not them"
And really, Washington's defense isn't bad, so if they get better QB play I could see them become a much better team much quicker.

Jets and Giants look awful top to bottom right now. I know the Jets have some semblance of defense, but they are possibly more poorly ran from the office and coach staff than we are.

---

I’m comparing how good Minshew’s first four games were and how some are ready to move on from him while also using Burrow’s first four games as proof he’s a future star. We don’t know where Burrow will go. I do remember that Minshew was poised until he kept getting hit repeatedly. That’s when we started seeing the happy feet occasionally.

As for this year? I don’t know what his excuse is but good QBs sometimes regress before getting better. It isn’t like he’s a bad QB.

Maybe you don't, but I knew a future star when I see one. 

I never said Minshew was a bad QB. He isn't. He's just not a franchise QB. I see his ceiling being that of Jay Cutler and that's not what we are looking for.

I guess we’ll see. I remember seeing a lot of the same attributes from Minshew in those early games, but he’s no longer a franchise QB, so we’ll see if Burrow takes the same route.

---

Maybe 2% worse.  When you're at the bottom, there isn't much more room to go down.  

Fair, right now we can only look at 2 or 3 franchises and be like "at least we're not them"
And really, Washington's defense isn't bad, so if they get better QB play I could see them become a much better team much quicker.

Jets and Giants look awful top to bottom right now. I know the Jets have some semblance of defense, but they are possibly more poorly ran from the office and coach staff than we are.

Washington is ahead of us... maybe not at QB, but everywhere else.  I think the Jets GM (who just got there last year) is a good one... he came from Philly via Chicago and Baltimore.  He needs some time.  They were 7-9 last season, had a bunch of significant players opt out this year, and have been decimated by injuries.  But they are BAD right now and the Jets coaching staff needs to go.  Giants are a complete mess... I agree.  But are we any better than they are?  Not so sure about that... they would be licking their chops if they saw us on the schedule.

From my perspective, we are in the muck with a half dozen teams at the bottom of the League... and we just lost back-to-back games against Miami and Cincinnati, who are in there with us.  The good news is that will give our new GM a higher draft selection next year.

---

This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.

Believe me, Minshew is not the issue. It is the position that our team is in during the game. Offensive playcalling depends on many things, including scoreboard.

---

During the Thursday game, Aikman summarized.. the expectations on a first round pick are high but the patience is to the extreme. With a late round guy the expectations are low but there is no patience so they are forced to do everything now and prove it every practice and every game. Gee why would Minshew press hard and look "nervous" because he is putting this failed franchise on his back and the team sucks in so many areas.

We are team doom. The offense has been watchable and I give Minshew credit there.

---

Birth of the Franchise - November 30, 1993
Death of the Franchise - November 29, 2011

Fans deserve better. Thanks for all the good times too many are in the past.

Believe me, Minshew is not the issue. It is the position that our team is in during the game.  Offensive playcalling depends on many things, including scoreboard.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I am not seeing any posts suggesting Minshew is the problem.  What or whom are you referencing? Just because people are critical of a few things in his game, I don't think they are passing judgement on his entire career yet.

---

During the Thursday game, Aikman summarized.. the expectations on a first round pick are high but the patience is to the extreme.  With a late round guy the expectations are low but there is no patience so they are forced to do everything now and prove it every practice and every game.  Gee why would Minshew press hard and look "nervous" because he is putting this failed franchise on his back and the team sucks in so many areas.

We are team doom.  The offense has been watchable and I give Minshew credit there.

I would agree with that.  He has been a bright spot on a bad team.  I don't think anyone is saying "he sucks".  I think they should stick with him the entire season with his ups and downs to get a real evaluation.  But I do think people have some healthy skepticism if he can ever be an Top Tier QB in the League.  Its too early to say either way, but there are concerns.

---

Maybe you don't, but I knew a future star when I see one. 

I never said Minshew was a bad QB. He isn't. He's just not a franchise QB. I see his ceiling being that of Jay Cutler and that's not what we are looking for.

I guess we’ll see. I remember seeing a lot of the same attributes from Minshew in those early games, but he’s no longer a franchise QB, so we’ll see if Burrow takes the same route.

Not sure Minshew ever was a "franchise QB".  Too early to tell, either way.  Wouldn't you agree?

---

This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.

Believe me, Minshew is not the issue. It is the position that our team is in during the game.  Offensive playcalling depends on many things, including scoreboard.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I am not seeing any posts suggesting Minshew is the problem.  What or whom are you referencing?  Just because people are critical of a few things in his game, I don't think they are passing judgement on his entire career yet.

---

During the Thursday game, Aikman summarized.. the expectations on a first round pick are high but the patience is to the extreme.  With a late round guy the expectations are low but there is no patience so they are forced to do everything now and prove it every practice and every game.  Gee why would Minshew press hard and look "nervous" because he is putting this failed franchise on his back and the team sucks in so many areas.

We are team doom.  The offense has been watchable and I give Minshew credit there.

I would agree with that.  He has been a bright spot on a bad team.  I don't think anyone is saying "he sucks".  I think they should stick with him the entire season with his ups and downs to get a real evaluation.  But I do think people have some healthy skepticism if he can ever be an Top Tier QB in the League.  Its too early to say either way, but there are concerns.

---

I guess we’ll see. I remember seeing a lot of the same attributes from Minshew in those early games, but he’s no longer a franchise QB, so we’ll see if Burrow takes the same route.

Not sure Minshew ever was a "franchise QB".  Too early to tell, either way.  Wouldn't you agree?

I think there are plenty of people that have jumped on the Minshew isn't the man bandwagon and have been putting a lot of the offense not scoring enough on him. Some of the criticism is warranted, he's responsible for like 2/3 of the sacks taken. But overall I think he's played well in about 10 Qs of football this season. He's not the kind of QB that can do it all and play well above the X's and O's. 

But that leads me to wonder, I'm not sure everyone has the same definition of "Franchise QB"... Is a franchise QB an elite level guy only? Like Rodgers, Mahomes, Wilson?
Or is a franchise QB one that is good enough to build a team around and win a lot of games and make playoff runs with?
If it is the former, I'd say two thirds of the league don't have a franchise guy and most years most teams won't.
If it is the latter I think Minshew can be a franchise QB.

I agree though, the jury is still out on Minshew. 12 games to go to answer the question of whether we should move forward with him. And I believe if it is still up in the air or we're unsure we should absolutely move on. But I don't think we as a fan base should be totally giving up on him because he isn't Mahomes or Rodgers. Most QBs aren't and never will be.

---

I think there are plenty of people that have jumped on the Minshew isn't the man bandwagon and have been putting a lot of the offense not scoring enough on him. Some of the criticism is warranted, he's responsible for like 2/3 of the sacks taken. But overall I think he's played well in about 10 Qs of football this season. He's not the kind of QB that can do it all and play well above the X's and O's. 

But that leads me to wonder, I'm not sure everyone has the same definition of "Franchise QB"... Is a franchise QB an elite level guy only? Like Rodgers, Mahomes, Wilson?
Or is a franchise QB one that is good enough to build a team around and win a lot of games and make playoff runs with?
If it is the former, I'd say two thirds of the league don't have a franchise guy and most years most teams won't.
If it is the latter I think Minshew can be a franchise QB.

I agree though, the jury is still out on Minshew. 12 games to go to answer the question of whether we should move forward with him. And I believe if it is still up in the air or we're unsure we should absolutely move on. But I don't think we as a fan base should be totally giving up on him because he isn't Mahomes or Rodgers. Most QBs aren't and never will be.

Well said.  If David Garrard could be classified as a franchise quarterback, then Minshew could be that too.  But in the limited evaluation we have of him up to this point, I see that as who he is capable of becoming.  The real question becomes, is that what we are acceptable with?  And would a new GM be satisfied with that moving forward?  The 2021 off-season is a huge year for this franchise and the decisions that will be made could reset the course of this franchise for a decade.

---

This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I am not seeing any posts suggesting Minshew is the problem.  What or whom are you referencing?  Just because people are critical of a few things in his game, I don't think they are passing judgement on his entire career yet.

---

I would agree with that.  He has been a bright spot on a bad team.  I don't think anyone is saying "he sucks".  I think they should stick with him the entire season with his ups and downs to get a real evaluation.  But I do think people have some healthy skepticism if he can ever be an Top Tier QB in the League.  Its too early to say either way, but there are concerns.

---

Not sure Minshew ever was a "franchise QB".  Too early to tell, either way.  Wouldn't you agree?

I think there are plenty of people that have jumped on the Minshew isn't the man bandwagon and have been putting a lot of the offense not scoring enough on him. Some of the criticism is warranted, he's responsible for like 2/3 of the sacks taken. But overall I think he's played well in about 10 Qs of football this season. He's not the kind of QB that can do it all and play well above the X's and O's. 

But that leads me to wonder, I'm not sure everyone has the same definition of "Franchise QB"... Is a franchise QB an elite level guy only? Like Rodgers, Mahomes, Wilson?
Or is a franchise QB one that is good enough to build a team around and win a lot of games and make playoff runs with?
If it is the former, I'd say two thirds of the league don't have a franchise guy and most years most teams won't.
If it is the latter I think Minshew can be a franchise QB.

I agree though, the jury is still out on Minshew. 12 games to go to answer the question of whether we should move forward with him. And I believe if it is still up in the air or we're unsure we should absolutely move on. But I don't think we as a fan base should be totally giving up on him because he isn't Mahomes or Rodgers. Most QBs aren't and never will be.

I think the issue for me is I’m all out of patience and wait and see. I get the fact that if we draft a QB that would require just that, but at this point I’m tired. I’m tired of mediocracy. After 20 years or so, I don’t want a good enough, can win if all the other parts are in place quarterback. I want an elite talent. 

We are long overdue at this point.

---

I think there are plenty of people that have jumped on the Minshew isn't the man bandwagon and have been putting a lot of the offense not scoring enough on him. Some of the criticism is warranted, he's responsible for like 2/3 of the sacks taken. But overall I think he's played well in about 10 Qs of football this season. He's not the kind of QB that can do it all and play well above the X's and O's. 

But that leads me to wonder, I'm not sure everyone has the same definition of "Franchise QB"... Is a franchise QB an elite level guy only? Like Rodgers, Mahomes, Wilson?
Or is a franchise QB one that is good enough to build a team around and win a lot of games and make playoff runs with?
If it is the former, I'd say two thirds of the league don't have a franchise guy and most years most teams won't.
If it is the latter I think Minshew can be a franchise QB.

I agree though, the jury is still out on Minshew. 12 games to go to answer the question of whether we should move forward with him. And I believe if it is still up in the air or we're unsure we should absolutely move on. But I don't think we as a fan base should be totally giving up on him because he isn't Mahomes or Rodgers. Most QBs aren't and never will be.

I think the issue for me is I’m all out of patience and wait and see. I get the fact that if we draft a QB that would require just that, but at this point I’m tired. I’m tired of mediocracy. After 20 years or so, I don’t want a good enough, can win if all the other parts are in place quarterback. I want an elite talent. 

We are long overdue at this point.

Agreed.  But we aren't drafting anyone for the next several months, so there is no harm in letting Minshew audition for the role until then.  Its premature to argue what our new GM will need to do with our Top 5 pick just yet.

---

This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.

I think the issue for me is I’m all out of patience and wait and see. I get the fact that if we draft a QB that would require just that, but at this point I’m tired. I’m tired of mediocracy. After 20 years or so, I don’t want a good enough, can win if all the other parts are in place quarterback. I want an elite talent. 

We are long overdue at this point.

Agreed.  But we aren't drafting anyone for the next several months, so there is no harm in letting Minshew audition for the role until then.  Its premature to argue what our new GM will need to do with our Top 5 pick just yet.

Oh I think he should start him this year and maybe next even if we draft a new QB. I would be OK with a QB controversy as well. The offense as a whole is looking good to me. I like our receiving core, running back, and the offensive line has really stepped up. At this point if we did end up with a top 5 and draft a QB, we need to go BAP defense with the rest of our picks. Wash may be horrible, but it’s not like there is much talent on the field and our depth is pretty bad. 

If we end up with a top 10 pick and this regime isn’t out... I’m probably going to have to finally bail on this team...a team I’ve put my heart into since 1993.

---

How do you define a franchise QB? If you're talking about Patrick Mahommes or Russel Wilson, I completely agree he'll never be those guys. But surely a QB doesn't have to play like that to be a franchise QB. Right now there's not that much to differentiate the performance of Burrow from Murray from Minshew other than a little bit of arm strength. I think he *might* become a Deshaun Watson (as far as importance, not playing style) by his third or fourth year.  I don't think you want to give him to long to figure it out though. We should have a better idea by the end of this year. I wouldn't go on the basis of just the last two games.

How do you know if he will ever be a Mahomes or Wilson type? I define a franchise QB as someone that passes the eyeball test. A QB that can process information quickly, go through his progressions in a hurry and has the confidence to make the right read and get the ball out in a hurry. To me, that is football I.Q. and Burrow is showing that through 4 games. I'm shocked he's showing these traits this early and I know he's bound to have some bumps in the road, being behind such a putrid O-Line, but what he is doing with so little, amazes me. He doesn't get spooked when the pocket collapses. He maintains his composure and takes what the defense gives him. That is a veteran move.

I think Wilson and Mahomes are generational type players. That isn't a knock on Minshew, it's just that those guys don't come along very often. 

I agree that a subjective evaluation is important. I think Minshew has largely passed the eye test over last year and so far this year and that his game against the Bengals was a function of him trying to force things. Once he settles down, he should get back to doing what he was doing before.

Then there are objective measurements, you need those too. By most of those measurements, he's actually better than the young guys you say are better than he is right now.  He could flop, for sure. If he continues in the direction he showed in the Dolphins game and to a lesser degree in the Bengals game then we might be in trouble.

---

I'm condescending. That means I talk down to you. 
Check out the Jag's Forum Alternative: Duval Football Fans.