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First quarter Jag Awards

#1
(This post was last modified: 10-10-2020, 08:53 PM by Bullseye.)

Before we begin, I want to acknowledge Jim Mora's classic rant on outsiders lack of knowledge https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHipzGL4dwM.  As much as I like to think I know....I don't know.  That said, since football is a spectator sport, they open themselves to public scrutiny and public opinions, whether informed or not.  Within that context, I offer my takes on the season thus far.

After a quarter of the season has passed (maybe more if the pandemic continues to decimate teams like it seems to be doing to the tacks), I figured a look at the team's best and maybe worst performers might be in order.  So here we go....at least for a start....

Offensive MVP-Gardner Minshew.  While some of the luster has come off of Minshew mania and fewer people seem to view him as a franchise QB than earlier in the season, he's still been pretty good overall.  He has a very high completion percentage, and generally when you watch him, you get the sense he's going to move the ball.  But two negatives (both seemingly related on some level) stand out to me.  First, he has shown a propensity to get balls batted at the LOS.  That has led to cistly INTs against Concnnati and Miami (IIRC).  The second flaw seems that some of his passes will sail when he's off, almost as if to compensate for getting passes batted at the LOS.  Nevertheless, I think he has played well overall and is deserving of this.

Defensive MVP-Myles Jack.  I think most Jaguars fans would have predicted Josh Allen would be the recipient of this award based upon how he played over the course of last year.  But his production has cratered thus far, I think, because the team got rid of all his help, and teams can focus more blocking attention to him.  Myles Jack, however, has upped his game big time.  Since moving him to weak, where many Jaguars fans always thought he should be, Jack has flourished, playing at the levels most thought he would reach when he amazingly fell to us in the 2016 draft.  His INT against Cincinnati was a thing of beauty and one of the best plays since the infamour Myles Jack wasn't down play int he AFC Championship game.

Offensive Rookie of the quarter-Without question, RB James Robinson.  I think many times, media types will make these trendy declarations and many fans will react.  One of these decrees is the trope about finding RBs anywhere.  I think that is largely overstated, and seems to be most apt to happen in WCO offenses.  That said, the latest case in support of this is James Robinson.  Marrone lauded his vision to hit the hole.  But what he undersold in his advocacy is Robinson's agility to hist the hole and, despite his pedestrian 4.6 speed, he has shown the ability to break some ling runs.  On top of that, he has shown adept at receiving and pass protection.  Now Shenault had his best game last week, and has been good overall, but Robinson is the clear choice here.

Defensive rookie of the quarter-CJ Henderson.  His first game was amazing, earning him national rookie of the week honors against the Colts.  He showed a surprising level of physicality against the Titans in week two, tackling a rumbling Derrick Henry on plays that would have gone for six in season's past.  However, his last two games have not been overly good.  In fact the Miami game was bad.  Devon Hamilton has had some decent snaps, but right now, the award goes to henderson.

Offensive Most improved player:  This was a difficult choice.  In my mind there were three decent candidates for this award:  Cam Robinson, Keelan Cole, and Jawaan Taylor.  I went with taylor.  Last year, most were amazed he fell to us in round two when the pre draft speculation had him as high as a top ten pick.  but he struggled a great deal, especially in the first half of the season.  But so for this year, he's looked much better than he did at this point last year.  He seems to be beaten far fewer times, and makes fewer penalties.  Cole's strange career is on an upswing, finding new hope in Gruden's schemes.  Robinson has rebounded nicely fromt he knee injury that robbed him of most of his 2018 season, and most of his consistency last year.  He's playing at a higher level.  But I think Taylor has improved better thant he other two, perhaps because I never saw him playing well ;ast year, whereas I saw Robinson and Coles play well before.  Keep up the good work guys!

Defensive Most improved player:  Myles Jack-Se above.

Game of the quarter-Opening day win vs. the Colts.  We got our first look at gruden's offense, and it didn't disappoint.  Guys running wide open against a good defense. A rookie RB was able to show his stuff.  A peasky and feisty defensive performance culminated in a most unexpected win.
 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!





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#2
(This post was last modified: 10-10-2020, 11:05 AM by flgatorsandjags.)

Most improved imo has been AJ cann by a good margin. He has went from very bad and the worst player on the online since drafted to a pretty decent to good player so far this year. Cam is a close 2nd though

(02-20-2019, 10:38 AM)Cleatwood Wrote:
(02-20-2019, 08:19 AM)Rico Wrote: Personally every single quarterback in this draft doesn't thrill me.  If I had to take one, it would be Haskins but that's only because he's the best of a not-so-good bunch.
Haskins football IQ is off the charts. He makes so many reads presnap and he’s only had 1 season as a starter. Look up EZlazar on twitter. He’s got a great little thread about Haskins reading the coverages and making throws. I think that’s what sets Haskins apart from not only this class but just about every QB in the class last year.

Agree with the rest though. Jack has had an All Pro type season so far and one of the best LBs in the game in the first quarter
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#3

Solid list and post.  I would agree with everything you said, except the Colts game.  That was more of the Colts not knowing what we were going to run and being unprepared in COVID Week 1 than Gruden's offense scheming guys open, imo.  I am afraid it will look very different when we play them a second time.
This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.
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#4

Chark would be my offensive MVP. He's hauled in 15/16 targets and made a lot of questionable throws successful.

I think I agree with Cann being most improved. Average is a giant improvement for him.
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#5

(10-10-2020, 11:37 AM)Upper Wrote: Chark would be my offensive MVP. He's hauled in 15/16 targets and made a lot of questionable throws successful.

I think I agree with Cann being most improved. Average is a giant improvement for him.

A case can definitely be made for Chark as Team Offensive MVP well.  But as we debate about these MVP's we have... one thing is striking.  Not one of them would be considered a Top 10 guy at their position in the League.  Not Minshew or Chark.  Maybe Jack would be in the lower end of the 10 ILB's in the League.  But that is how bad our roster is.
This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.
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#6

(10-10-2020, 12:09 PM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote:
(10-10-2020, 11:37 AM)Upper Wrote: Chark would be my offensive MVP. He's hauled in 15/16 targets and made a lot of questionable throws successful.

I think I agree with Cann being most improved. Average is a giant improvement for him.

A case can definitely be made for Chark as Team Offensive MVP well.  But as we debate about these MVP's we have... one thing is striking.  Not one of them would be considered a Top 10 guy at their position in the League.  Not Minshew or Chark.  Maybe Jack would be in the lower end of the 10 ILB's in the League.  But that is how bad our roster is.

Linder is a top 10 center and Chark can certainly be a top 10 WR.  There isn't 10 WRs isnt take over Chark.  Lambo is the best kicker and Jack is a top 5 LBer easily so far this year
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#7
(This post was last modified: 10-10-2020, 12:33 PM by NeptuneBeachBum.)

(10-10-2020, 12:22 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote:
(10-10-2020, 12:09 PM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote: A case can definitely be made for Chark as Team Offensive MVP well.  But as we debate about these MVP's we have... one thing is striking.  Not one of them would be considered a Top 10 guy at their position in the League.  Not Minshew or Chark.  Maybe Jack would be in the lower end of the 10 ILB's in the League.  But that is how bad our roster is.

Linder is a top 10 center and Chark can certainly be a top 10 WR.  There isn't 10 WRs isnt take over Chark.  Lambo is the best kicker and Jack is a top 5 LBer easily so far this year

Linder would be bottom half of Top 10... I'll give you that one.  No way in hell Chark is a Top 10 receiver in the League... go look at the list.  No one outside of Duval County would have him even in their Top 15.  Lambo I will give you Top 10 (not the best though, and wasn't even really thinking about specialists), and Jack is definitely not Top 5.  He won't be in the Pro Bowl.

Regardless, our talent level is HORRIBLE. We didn't even have ONE player in the NFL Top 100 this year, voted on by other players.
This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.
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#8
(This post was last modified: 10-10-2020, 01:26 PM by Bullseye.)

(10-10-2020, 11:02 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: Most improved imo has been AJ cann by a good margin.  He has went from very bad and the worst player on the online since drafted to a pretty decent to good player so far this year.  Cam is a close 2nd though

(02-20-2019, 10:38 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: Haskins football IQ is off the charts. He makes so many reads presnap and he’s only had 1 season as a starter. Look up EZlazar on twitter. He’s got a great little thread about Haskins reading the coverages and making throws. I think that’s what sets Haskins apart from not only this class but just about every QB in the class last year.

Agree with the rest though.  Jack has had an All Pro type season so far and one of the best LBs in the game in the first quarter

As I was returning from the grocery store, Cann began to go through my mind as an oversight in my consideration.  The posts in this thread serves as confirmation he should at least be considered.

Of course this raises some interesting questions.

I can't think of a single Jaguars offensive lineman that has performed poorly overall.  Taylor struggled against Miami, but has been good overall.  As you guys have observed, Cann has improved a great deal.  Even Shatley filled in well when Linder was out.

I think this is a great development, but it runs counter to the thoughts of many Jaguars fans who did not trust Warhop to be a good OL coach.  To the extent the OL as a whole has improved, do you attribute the improvement to him, or to Gruden, or health for Robinson and experience to Taylor?

Is the improvement a function of the schedule?

Two more awards...of a begative variety and two more positive category.

Most disappointing-offense:  Dede Westbrook-Not that he has done too much, but somehow he fell out of favor and hasn't been active.  Fortunately, Keelan Cole is looking like the guy we saw in the second half of the 2017 season.

Most disappointing-Defense:  Josh Allen-I don't think he is a bust at all, and I have no problems with his effort.  His health has been okay though I understand he is dealing with a knee.  But more than that, he is dealing with a lack of help along the DL, and weakened coverage in the secondary.  I am not listing Chaisson because I really did not expect much from him this year and I didn't like the pick from the beginning.

Biggest Surprise, offense:  Again Robinson has to take the award.  You typically don't expect undrafted guys to be your opening day starter, but he is, and from what I've seen, his game is complete.

Biggest Surprise, Defense:  To me, the performance against the Colts.

(10-10-2020, 11:18 AM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote: Solid list and post.  I would agree with everything you said, except the Colts game.  That was more of the Colts not knowing what we were going to run and being unprepared in COVID Week 1 than Gruden's offense scheming guys open, imo.  I am afraid it will look very different when we play them a second time.

This may very well be true.  There could be any number of reasons for that performance.  The Jaguars have had success against the Colts in recent years, even dating back to Gus Bradley, strangely enough..  Perhaps this was a merely a continuation of that  Perhaps we still match up well with the Colts.  All I know is beating them was a pleasant surprise.
 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!





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#9
(This post was last modified: 10-10-2020, 01:29 PM by Bullseye.)

(10-10-2020, 11:37 AM)Upper Wrote: Chark would be my offensive MVP. He's hauled in 15/16 targets and made a lot of questionable throws successful.

I think I agree with Cann being most improved. Average is a giant improvement for him.

An excellent choice.  When he was out against Miami, our offense had their worst performance.  I liked the Chark pick and was one of my pound the table picks.  He has exceeded my expectations after a slow rookie year that created some trepidation amongst Jaguars fans, including myself.


 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!





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#10
(This post was last modified: 10-10-2020, 01:47 PM by mal234.)

(10-10-2020, 12:22 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote:
(10-10-2020, 12:09 PM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote: A case can definitely be made for Chark as Team Offensive MVP well.  But as we debate about these MVP's we have... one thing is striking.  Not one of them would be considered a Top 10 guy at their position in the League.  Not Minshew or Chark.  Maybe Jack would be in the lower end of the 10 ILB's in the League.  But that is how bad our roster is.

Linder is a top 10 center and Chark can certainly be a top 10 WR.  There isn't 10 WRs isnt take over Chark.  Lambo is the best kicker and Jack is a top 5 LBer easily so far this year

(10-10-2020, 12:27 PM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote:
(10-10-2020, 12:22 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: Linder is a top 10 center and Chark can certainly be a top 10 WR.  There isn't 10 WRs isnt take over Chark.  Lambo is the best kicker and Jack is a top 5 LBer easily so far this year

Linder would be bottom half of Top 10... I'll give you that one.  No way in hell Chark is a Top 10 receiver in the League... go look at the list.  No one outside of Duval County would have him even in their Top 15.  Lambo I will give you Top 10 (not the best though, and wasn't even really thinking about specialists), and Jack is definitely not Top 5.  He won't be in the Pro Bowl.

Regardless, our talent level is HORRIBLE.  We didn't even have ONE player in the NFL Top 100 this year, voted on by other players.

I agree withflgatorsandjags that DJ could definitely be a top 10.receiver in this league. James Robinson is playing top 10 (and better) level at his position. And Josh Lambo when healthy is like the second best kicker in this league. Last year the only one you could maybe put over him is Justin Tucker.

The defense is rough but the offense has talent. The talent level on the offense is not horrible.
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#11
(This post was last modified: 10-10-2020, 03:11 PM by NeptuneBeachBum.)

(10-10-2020, 01:42 PM)mal234 Wrote:
(10-10-2020, 12:22 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: Linder is a top 10 center and Chark can certainly be a top 10 WR.  There isn't 10 WRs isnt take over Chark.  Lambo is the best kicker and Jack is a top 5 LBer easily so far this year

(10-10-2020, 12:27 PM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote: Linder would be bottom half of Top 10... I'll give you that one.  No way in hell Chark is a Top 10 receiver in the League... go look at the list.  No one outside of Duval County would have him even in their Top 15.  Lambo I will give you Top 10 (not the best though, and wasn't even really thinking about specialists), and Jack is definitely not Top 5.  He won't be in the Pro Bowl.

Regardless, our talent level is HORRIBLE.  We didn't even have ONE player in the NFL Top 100 this year, voted on by other players.

I agree withflgatorsandjags that DJ could definitely be a top 10.receiver in this league. James Robinson is playing top 10 (and better) level at his position. And Josh Lambo when healthy is like the second best kicker in this league. Last year the only one you could maybe put over him is Justin Tucker.

The defense is rough but the offense has talent. The talent level on the offense is not horrible.
 
Robinson has played 4 games as an undrafted rookie and you have him in the Top 10 backs in the League?  C'mon....

As for Chark, who are you taking off this list and putting him ahead of? Not ranked in any real order:

1.  Michael Thomas
2.  DeAndre Hopkins
3.  Julio Jones
4.  Chris Godwin
5.  Tyreek Hill
6.  DeVante Adams
7.  Mike Evans
8.  Amari Cooper
9.  Courtland Sutton
10.  AJ Brown
11.  Tyler Lockett
12.  Allen Robinson
13.  DJ Moore
14.  Keenan Allen
15.  Odell Beckham Jr.
16.  DeVante Parker
17.  Kenny Golladay
18.  Deebo Samuel
19.   Stefon Diggs
20.  Robert Woods
21.  Terry McLaurin
22.  DK Metcalf
23.  Jarvis Landry
24.  Cooper Kupp
25.  Adam Thielen
26. AJ Green
27. Ty Hilton
28. JuJu Smith-Schuster
29. Will Fuller
30. Julian Edelman
31. Jerry Jeudy
32. Michael Gallup
33. Sammy Watkins
34. Larry Fitzgerald
35. Calvin Ridley

If you think he is better than 15 guys on this list (which is highly debatable), Chark is still not even Top 20.  Nevermind Top 10. I'd have him in the 22-25 range.

Chark is currently ranked 45th in receiving yards, 40th in yards per catch, and 31st in yards per game. NOT Top 10, or even Top 20. Take off the Teal glasses, my friend.
This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.
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#12

(10-10-2020, 12:09 PM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote:
(10-10-2020, 11:37 AM)Upper Wrote: Chark would be my offensive MVP. He's hauled in 15/16 targets and made a lot of questionable throws successful.

I think I agree with Cann being most improved. Average is a giant improvement for him.

A case can definitely be made for Chark as Team Offensive MVP well.  But as we debate about these MVP's we have... one thing is striking.  Not one of them would be considered a Top 10 guy at their position in the League.  Not Minshew or Chark.  Maybe Jack would be in the lower end of the 10 ILB's in the League.  But that is how bad our roster is.

It ain’t over til the fat lady sings, but Minshew is currently 

6th in completion percentage 
8th in yards
Tied for 7th for TDs

So statistically  speaking he could make an argument for top 10. But let’s see how the season plays out
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#13

(10-10-2020, 03:29 PM)SamusAranX Wrote:
(10-10-2020, 12:09 PM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote: A case can definitely be made for Chark as Team Offensive MVP well.  But as we debate about these MVP's we have... one thing is striking.  Not one of them would be considered a Top 10 guy at their position in the League.  Not Minshew or Chark.  Maybe Jack would be in the lower end of the 10 ILB's in the League.  But that is how bad our roster is.

It ain’t over til the fat lady sings, but Minshew is currently 

6th in completion percentage 
8th in yards
Tied for 7th for TDs

So statistically  speaking he could make an argument for top 10. But let’s see how the season plays out

Agreed.  Long way from over.  Hope Minshew keeps rolling and has had a great start, I just see him regressing as the season goes on.  Hopefully, I am wrong!
This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.
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#14

All of that looks correct to me. I can’t say I disagree with any of it. It’s too bad the DL just fell off the map at the same time out OL got their [BLEEP] together. With any pass rush, we’d probably have another win on our record.
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#15

To me Chark fits in @16
Your beliefs become your thoughts,
Your thoughts become your words,
Your words become your actions,
Your actions become your habits,
Your habits become your values,
Your values become your destiny.
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#16
(This post was last modified: 10-10-2020, 05:26 PM by NeptuneBeachBum.)

(10-10-2020, 05:19 PM)JaG4LyFe Wrote: To me Chark fits in  @16

I'd say that assessment is through a Teal-colored lens, but you are not too far off the reservation.  lol

Like I said, I can't see anyone outside of Duval County (or this board) putting him in the Top 20, never mind Top 10.
This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.
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#17

(10-10-2020, 03:29 PM)SamusAranX Wrote:
(10-10-2020, 12:09 PM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote: A case can definitely be made for Chark as Team Offensive MVP well.  But as we debate about these MVP's we have... one thing is striking.  Not one of them would be considered a Top 10 guy at their position in the League.  Not Minshew or Chark.  Maybe Jack would be in the lower end of the 10 ILB's in the League.  But that is how bad our roster is.

It ain’t over til the fat lady sings, but Minshew is currently 

6th in completion percentage 
8th in yards
Tied for 7th for TDs

So statistically  speaking he could make an argument for top 10. But let’s see how the season plays out

Garbage stats
[Image: giphy.gif]
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#18

Cam and Jawaan are going to be really good for a long time. Such an under rated view. Linder is still a very good Center. And Robinson has been perfect for our offense and he gets my nod for MVP on offense

Myles Jack has turned it around finally.
Chark is a legit Pro Bowl WR.

Cole has earned his way on the field.

Josh Allen has been double teamed all year. Henderson has my vote for defensive MVP.

Lambo is still automatic and gets some love too.
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#19

(10-10-2020, 05:29 PM)leopold332002 Wrote:
(10-10-2020, 03:29 PM)SamusAranX Wrote: It ain’t over til the fat lady sings, but Minshew is currently 

6th in completion percentage 
8th in yards
Tied for 7th for TDs

So statistically  speaking he could make an argument for top 10. But let’s see how the season plays out

Garbage stats
That was Bortles
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#20
(This post was last modified: 10-10-2020, 09:23 PM by NeptuneBeachBum.)

(10-10-2020, 08:46 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: Cam and Jawaan are going to be really good for a long time. Such an under rated view. Linder is still a very good Center. And Robinson has been perfect for our offense and he gets my nod for MVP on offense

Myles Jack has turned it around finally.
Chark is a legit Pro Bowl WR.

Cole has earned his way on the field.

Josh Allen has been double teamed all year. Henderson has my vote for defensive MVP.

Lambo is still automatic and gets some love too.

I didn't know 23 receivers made it to the Pro Bowl.  If so, Chark has a shot.

Cam and Jawaan = Eugene Monroe and Eben Britton = Average
This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.
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