I think the hate for Pence has always been a product of association with Trump.  When the primary target isn't in sight, people tend to focus on whoever is directly in front of them.

Of the four candidates in both elections, I always found his demeanor and delivery to be that which I most wanted to see in the Oval Office.

I agree.

I agree.  Pence wins by default.  He's very bland, but the "spice" that each of the others adds to the mix, is a negative for me.

---

My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

NJ Rep. Sherrill: Unidentified lawmakers led apparent 'reconnaissance' tours prior to Capitol attack | Fox News

Tinfoil hat time.

Oh my hell. People walking through the building the day before is hardly proof of a recon mission. Unless there is specific evidence such as actual audio of what was being said it's circumstantial at best. 

There is actual evidence that shows Capitol police letting people in the building and no, it wasn't because they were overrun by the mob. There is social media evidence some of those officers took selfies with 'rioters'. There is actual social media evidence that several of the 'patriots' were not there to protest the certification of the electoral college but to make idiots of themselves. All of these people should be investigated, arrested, and charged for what they did. 

People are going to believe what they want to believe and see what they want to see. That doesn't make someone guilty of a thing.

---

Trump declassifying Obamagate and the FBI confirms there were leftist agitators in group of people storming the Capitol. 



https://video.foxbusiness.com/v/62229929...show-clips

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What in the Wide Wide World of Sports is agoin' on here???

Shocker.  The “L” in left stands for Looney

---

...that or liar. Or both. Idk

---

Trump declassifying Obamagate and the FBI confirms there were leftist agitators in group of people storming the Capitol. 



https://video.foxbusiness.com/v/62229929...show-clips

And there (Obamagate) is the middle finger Trump is giving the left on his way out the door. It will be most interesting to see what those documents show. Too bad it will be filtered through the lens of MSM. Hopefully a moderate source will provide a Cliff's notes version. I

As for the FBI and their report....it's not going to matter. The media will ignore it the best they can and will continue to say Trump incited the mob. I appreciate their investigation and that they actually found and reported something many suspected, but it won't reach those who don't want to hear it.

---

Trump declassifying Obamagate and the FBI confirms there were leftist agitators in group of people storming the Capitol. 



https://video.foxbusiness.com/v/62229929...show-clips

And there (Obamagate) is the middle finger Trump is giving the left on his way out the door. It will be most interesting to see what those documents show. Too bad it will be filtered through the lens of MSM. Hopefully a moderate source will provide a Cliff's notes version. I

As for the FBI and their report....it's not going to matter. The media will ignore it the best they can and will continue to say Trump incited the mob. I appreciate their investigation and that they actually found and reported something many suspected, but it won't reach those who don't want to hear it.

The media is going to ignore the declassification of the obamagate documents too.

---

What in the Wide Wide World of Sports is agoin' on here???

And there (Obamagate) is the middle finger Trump is giving the left on his way out the door. It will be most interesting to see what those documents show. Too bad it will be filtered through the lens of MSM. Hopefully a moderate source will provide a Cliff's notes version. I

As for the FBI and their report....it's not going to matter. The media will ignore it the best they can and will continue to say Trump incited the mob. I appreciate their investigation and that they actually found and reported something many suspected, but it won't reach those who don't want to hear it.

The media is going to ignore the declassification of the obamagate documents too.

Yeah, you're most likely right about that. Too bad really.

---

Well, that's close to the point I was making that jj was weakly contesting. Look up palingenetic ultranationalism, then tell me how that differs from Trumpism, especially considering their recent insurrection against the United States.

In every way, the democratic movement is closer to fascist Germany except one. They are globalists. They have merged corporate and political control and are working to make this is a one party state. If they were nationalists instead of globalists, you have NAZI Germany. So, hide behind that technicality if you want. Trump didn't do a single thing that was fascist except promote nationalism, which is not fascist by any means.

Did you even look up palingenetic ultranationalism?  If not, please do so, then explain to me how it differs from Trumpism. Really,  in any way? I will admit, you're not totally incorrect, as the left promising the voters a brighter future falls well into this sphere,  as well.

---

Trump declassifying Obamagate and the FBI confirms there were leftist agitators in group of people storming the Capitol. 



https://video.foxbusiness.com/v/62229929...show-clips

I wonder how much is getting released and if this is just the first release.

Sent from my SM-T970 using Tapatalk

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Trump declassifying Obamagate and the FBI confirms there were leftist agitators in group of people storming the Capitol. 



https://video.foxbusiness.com/v/62229929...show-clips

Honest question, do you believe the tripe bandied about in that video?  If so, I feel sad for you. At one point in the video, Dobbs's guest states that these documents were held from the light of day by the FBI for four years. This is a bureau that for the last four years has been in control of Trump. If Trump wanted these released before then, it was well within his power. Or maybe he's just incompetent. Or lazy. Or maybe now is the time to release fodder for his sycophants in a futile attempt to keep his world from crumbling around him by continuing the grift.

---

In every way, the democratic movement is closer to fascist Germany except one. They are globalists. They have merged corporate and political control and are working to make this is a one party state. If they were nationalists instead of globalists, you have NAZI Germany. So, hide behind that technicality if you want. Trump didn't do a single thing that was fascist except promote nationalism, which is not fascist by any means.

Did you even look up palingenetic ultranationalism?  If not, please do so, then explain to me how it differs from Trumpism. Really,  in any way? I will admit, you're not totally incorrect, as the left promising the voters a brighter future falls well into this sphere,  as well.

Is "Trumpism" really a thing now?

---

When you get into the endzone, act like you've been there before.

Did you even look up palingenetic ultranationalism?  If not, please do so, then explain to me how it differs from Trumpism. Really,  in any way? I will admit, you're not totally incorrect, as the left promising the voters a brighter future falls well into this sphere,  as well.

Is "Trumpism" really a thing now?

It is if you want to attempt to create parallels between people who politically disagree with you and immorality.  Who knew we were palindromic ultrasoundists?

---

In every way, the democratic movement is closer to fascist Germany except one. They are globalists. They have merged corporate and political control and are working to make this is a one party state. If they were nationalists instead of globalists, you have NAZI Germany. So, hide behind that technicality if you want. Trump didn't do a single thing that was fascist except promote nationalism, which is not fascist by any means.

Did you even look up palingenetic ultranationalism?  If not, please do so, then explain to me how it differs from Trumpism. Really,  in any way? I will admit, you're not totally incorrect, as the left promising the voters a brighter future falls well into this sphere,  as well.

I don't remember it if that was something I studied in college. Had to do a quick Wiki search. Not sure why you think that's a solid rebuttal to my argument. I have conceded that Trumpism is a nationalist movement, which in and of itself is not bad. It's only the abuse of authoritarianism that makes a nationalist movement dangerous. I don't know if I have mentioned it on this board or not, but I could easily see the Trump movement descending into fascism, under the right circumstances. However, those factors just aren't present in this nation at the moment. 

Germany was facing some of the same struggles as the US (but on a much, much greater level). Economic downturn followed by a loss of jobs, brought about by sanctions imposed by foreign nations. These factors were compounded by a communist movement that was looking to remove German identity so they could replace it with their own ideology. Communists were burning national monuments and rioting in the street. This movement created the base that supported Hitler. They needed a person who would stand up to the foreign nations and face the communists that were trying to tear Germany apart. The same factors are present, more or less, in modern day America, with a few MAJOR exceptions. 

Trump hasn't used any authoritarian means to address the "threat" that his base feels is subverting the nation, and he has no backing from the media, military, or corporate institutions to control the narrative he is putting forth. And, most importantly, he hasn't tried to silence the democratic party. If Trump had gained that backing and used a military coup to attack his detractors and silence them, we would be living in a fascist government. But he didn't. That said, I do think there would be a significant amount of his supporters that would either condone or be sympathetic to Trump if he carried out an authoritative action in pursuit of pushing back against the progressive movement in this country, which is scary. 

I started to go into an in-depth discussion of NAZI Germany, but I don't have time to sit here and write a giant history lesson. The left in this country are far more like NAZI Germany, because they married to corporate America, have complete control of the narrative, and are taking actions to become a single party state. The sole exception is that they aren't nationalists. So,  you can talk about palngenetic ultranationalism all  you want. It doesn't change what I said. One side is significantly more authoritarian, and it ain't the right.

---

Did you even look up palingenetic ultranationalism?  If not, please do so, then explain to me how it differs from Trumpism. Really,  in any way? I will admit, you're not totally incorrect, as the left promising the voters a brighter future falls well into this sphere,  as well.

I don't remember it if that was something I studied in college. Had to do a quick Wiki search. Not sure why you think that's a solid rebuttal to my argument. I have conceded that Trumpism is a nationalist movement, which in and of itself is not bad. It's only the abuse of authoritarianism that makes a nationalist movement dangerous. I don't know if I have mentioned it on this board or not, but I could easily see the Trump movement descending into fascism, under the right circumstances. However, those factors just aren't present in this nation at the moment. 

Germany was facing some of the same struggles as the US (but on a much, much greater level). Economic downturn followed by a loss of jobs, brought about by sanctions imposed by foreign nations. These factors were compounded by a communist movement that was looking to remove German identity so they could replace it with their own ideology. Communists were burning national monuments and rioting in the street. This movement created the base that supported Hitler. They needed a person who would stand up to the foreign nations and face the communists that were trying to tear Germany apart. The same factors are present, more or less, in modern day America, with a few MAJOR exceptions. 

Trump hasn't used any authoritarian means to address the "threat" that his base feels is subverting the nation, and he has no backing from the media, military, or corporate institutions to control the narrative he is putting forth. And, most importantly, he hasn't tried to silence the democratic party. If Trump had gained that backing and used a military coup to attack his detractors and silence them, we would be living in a fascist government. But he didn't. That said, I do think there would be a significant amount of his supporters that would either condone or be sympathetic to Trump if he carried out an authoritative action in pursuit of pushing back against the progressive movement in this country, which is scary. 

I started to go into an in-depth discussion of NAZI Germany, but I don't have time to sit here and write a giant history lesson. The left in this country are far more like NAZI Germany, because they married to corporate America, have complete control of the narrative, and are taking actions to become a single party state. The sole exception is that they aren't nationalists. So,  you can talk about palngenetic ultranationalism all  you want. It doesn't change what I said. One side is significantly more authoritarian, and it ain't the right.

Some of what you said there is true.  

Something you left out of that history is that the fascists in Germany in the 1920s and 1930s made great use of a huge lie that was going around a sizeable portion of the German populace at the time.  They adopted it, they promoted it, and they leveraged it to gain power.  And that big lie was, that they weren't losing when WW1 ended.  The big lie was that they were actually winning WW1 when they were "sold out" and stabbed in the back by Jews and communists in the government.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stab-in-the-back_myth

Trumpism is doing a similar thing right now, with their own big lie, and that is, that Trump didn't lose the election, that the other side cheated.  

Another similarity is that apparently a lot of the more extreme Trump supporters would love to have an open battle, shooting and all, with the left.  We read and see it constantly.  It comes from right wing militias, "Proud Boys," and white nationalists, who would love nothing better than to provoke open warfare in the streets.   That's would be just like late 1920s and early 1930s Germany, with the fascists fighting street battles with the communists.    


I don't think it's going to happen here yet, but there are some echoes of 1920s Germany here in the US.  What really led to the rise of the Nazis in Germany was the Great Depression.  If we have a massive economic failure here, brought about by the pandemic and seemingly unlimited government spending, we could see a real rise in fascism here.  There was incredible inflation in Weimar Germany.  Over the last 4 years under Trump, we have seen a huge increase in the national debt, and there is a lot of speculation that that could lead to a lot of inflation in the US in the future.  

Overall, I don't think Trumpism = fascism, because we don't have the conditions here in the US for the rise of fascist movement, yet.  Trumpism smells like fascism, with the national savior myth, the strong man, the nationalism, and racism, but as some have correctly pointed out to me, it doesn't really meet the definition of fascism.  

I don't recall off the top of my head if the Nazis ever carried out an open, physical attack on the representative branch of the German government, in an effort to shut it down, like (some) Trump supporters just did.

---

I don't remember it if that was something I studied in college. Had to do a quick Wiki search. Not sure why you think that's a solid rebuttal to my argument. I have conceded that Trumpism is a nationalist movement, which in and of itself is not bad. It's only the abuse of authoritarianism that makes a nationalist movement dangerous. I don't know if I have mentioned it on this board or not, but I could easily see the Trump movement descending into fascism, under the right circumstances. However, those factors just aren't present in this nation at the moment. 

Germany was facing some of the same struggles as the US (but on a much, much greater level). Economic downturn followed by a loss of jobs, brought about by sanctions imposed by foreign nations. These factors were compounded by a communist movement that was looking to remove German identity so they could replace it with their own ideology. Communists were burning national monuments and rioting in the street. This movement created the base that supported Hitler. They needed a person who would stand up to the foreign nations and face the communists that were trying to tear Germany apart. The same factors are present, more or less, in modern day America, with a few MAJOR exceptions. 

Trump hasn't used any authoritarian means to address the "threat" that his base feels is subverting the nation, and he has no backing from the media, military, or corporate institutions to control the narrative he is putting forth. And, most importantly, he hasn't tried to silence the democratic party. If Trump had gained that backing and used a military coup to attack his detractors and silence them, we would be living in a fascist government. But he didn't. That said, I do think there would be a significant amount of his supporters that would either condone or be sympathetic to Trump if he carried out an authoritative action in pursuit of pushing back against the progressive movement in this country, which is scary. 

I started to go into an in-depth discussion of NAZI Germany, but I don't have time to sit here and write a giant history lesson. The left in this country are far more like NAZI Germany, because they married to corporate America, have complete control of the narrative, and are taking actions to become a single party state. The sole exception is that they aren't nationalists. So,  you can talk about palngenetic ultranationalism all  you want. It doesn't change what I said. One side is significantly more authoritarian, and it ain't the right.

Some of what you said there is true.  

Something you left out of that history is that the fascists in Germany in the 1920s and 1930s made great use of a huge lie that was going around a sizeable portion of the German populace at the time.  They adopted it, they promoted it, and they leveraged it to gain power.  And that big lie was, that they weren't losing when WW1 ended.  The big lie was that they were actually winning WW1 when they were "sold out" and stabbed in the back by Jews and communists in the government.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stab-in-the-back_myth

Trumpism is doing a similar thing right now, with their own big lie, and that is, that Trump didn't lose the election, that the other side cheated.  

Another similarity is that apparently a lot of the more extreme Trump supporters would love to have an open battle, shooting and all, with the left.  We read and see it constantly.  It comes from right wing militias, "Proud Boys," and white nationalists, who would love nothing better than to provoke open warfare in the streets.   That's would be just like late 1920s and early 1930s Germany, with the fascists fighting street battles with the communists.    


I don't think it's going to happen here yet, but there are some echoes of 1920s Germany here in the US.  What really led to the rise of the Nazis in Germany was the Great Depression.  If we have a massive economic failure here, brought about by the pandemic and seemingly unlimited government spending, we could see a real rise in fascism here.  There was incredible inflation in Weimar Germany.  Over the last 4 years under Trump, we have seen a huge increase in the national debt, and there is a lot of speculation that that could lead to a lot of inflation in the US in the future.  

Overall, I don't think Trumpism = fascism, because we don't have to conditions here in the US for the rise of fascist movement, yet.  Trumpism smells like fascism, with the national savior myth, the strong man, the nationalism, and racism, but as some have correctly pointed out to me, it doesn't really meet the definition of fascism.

Meanwhile...

AOC is slammed for suggestion of federal commission to rein in the press | Daily Mail Online

---

Some of what you said there is true.  

Something you left out of that history is that the fascists in Germany in the 1920s and 1930s made great use of a huge lie that was going around a sizeable portion of the German populace at the time.  They adopted it, they promoted it, and they leveraged it to gain power.  And that big lie was, that they weren't losing when WW1 ended.  The big lie was that they were actually winning WW1 when they were "sold out" and stabbed in the back by Jews and communists in the government.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stab-in-the-back_myth

Trumpism is doing a similar thing right now, with their own big lie, and that is, that Trump didn't lose the election, that the other side cheated.  

Another similarity is that apparently a lot of the more extreme Trump supporters would love to have an open battle, shooting and all, with the left.  We read and see it constantly.  It comes from right wing militias, "Proud Boys," and white nationalists, who would love nothing better than to provoke open warfare in the streets.   That's would be just like late 1920s and early 1930s Germany, with the fascists fighting street battles with the communists.    


I don't think it's going to happen here yet, but there are some echoes of 1920s Germany here in the US.  What really led to the rise of the Nazis in Germany was the Great Depression.  If we have a massive economic failure here, brought about by the pandemic and seemingly unlimited government spending, we could see a real rise in fascism here.  There was incredible inflation in Weimar Germany.  Over the last 4 years under Trump, we have seen a huge increase in the national debt, and there is a lot of speculation that that could lead to a lot of inflation in the US in the future.  

Overall, I don't think Trumpism = fascism, because we don't have to conditions here in the US for the rise of fascist movement, yet.  Trumpism smells like fascism, with the national savior myth, the strong man, the nationalism, and racism, but as some have correctly pointed out to me, it doesn't really meet the definition of fascism.

Meanwhile...

AOC is slammed for suggestion of federal commission to rein in the press | Daily Mail Online

"Oh, yeah?  Well what about AOC?"  

What do you want me to say about that?  It's a horrible idea that is totally unconstitutional.  I wish she would go away and not bother us any more.  Okay?

---

Meanwhile...

AOC is slammed for suggestion of federal commission to rein in the press | Daily Mail Online

"Oh, yeah?  Well what about AOC?"  

What do you want me to say about that?  It's a horrible idea that is totally unconstitutional.  I wish she would go away and not bother us any more.  Okay?

Someone’s a little snippy today.

---

What in the Wide Wide World of Sports is agoin' on here???

"Oh, yeah?  Well what about AOC?"  

What do you want me to say about that?  It's a horrible idea that is totally unconstitutional.  I wish she would go away and not bother us any more.  Okay?

Someone’s a little snippy today.

Coffee is wearing off.

---

Meanwhile...

AOC is slammed for suggestion of federal commission to rein in the press | Daily Mail Online

"Oh, yeah?  Well what about AOC?"  

What do you want me to say about that?  It's a horrible idea that is totally unconstitutional.  I wish she would go away and not bother us any more.  Okay?

Don't take it so personal. I'm merely pointing out that popular demonization of the right should be equally applied to the left.

---

"Oh, yeah?  Well what about AOC?"  

What do you want me to say about that?  It's a horrible idea that is totally unconstitutional.  I wish she would go away and not bother us any more.  Okay?

Don't take it so personal. I'm merely pointing out that popular demonization of the right should be equally applied to the left.

I don't think my post was demonizing the right, and I don't think your post about AOC was demonizing the left.  I think both posts were truthful.  But what-about-ism, even if it's truthful, does get old.  What-about-ism is just deflection.  It's usually irrelevant to the subject.

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