I just want to preface this by saying everyone has a right to choose to get vaccinated or not, and should be based on that individual. With that said why isnt there national attention on the breakthrough covid-19 deaths.

https://www.wsmv.com/call_4_action/break...3aae4.html

https://www.njspotlight.com/2021/07/covi...b-mask-up/

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Whether someone has a liberal, or conservative viewpoint, a authoritative figure should not lock a thread for the sole purpose to get the last word in all the while prohibiting someone else from being able to respond.

As a co-worker do you think I should give up my right to a safe working environment because you don't want to get vaccinated? What risk do I assume as the owner by allowing you to potentially expose the rest of the staff? If I require you to be vaccinated then I have taken what could be legally seen as every reasonable precaution to provide a safe environment and that protects me when your co-workers get sue happy. However, if the only reason you get the shot is because I require it for you to remain employed and you are one of the very few who suffer an injury as a result what is my liability there?

But vaccinated people are also spreading this. I've seen this from Fauci to random doctors talking about it. I don't get why this part is hard for people to understand. So people who want to have fewer/less/no symptoms go ahead and get vaccinated but understand that you are just as much of a spreader as the unvaccinated.

That's not quite accurate, vaccinated persons have at minimum 40% less viral load than unvaccinated persons. That means they are significantly less contagious for significantly less time as validated by one of the studies I linked earlier. That's why masking for vaccinated people is recommended, because for a small period of time they are potentially contagious. Why this matters is because as fewer and fewer unvaccinated people are in the environment the opportunity for infection becomes less and less and the amount of virus in the environment becomes less and less until it's gone. But while we're sitting here with half the population at risk the virus has plenty of petri dish people to nourish it and spread it all over.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Starting Monday we are being required to go back to wearing masks at work. My workplace had relaxed the mask rule, but now we are going back to it. I was already still wearing mine because my job is a lot of high exposure and we have several unvaccinated people there who weren't wearing masks.

We are federal employees and I did tell a couple of my unvaccinated co-workers that they will be subjected to regular covid testing if they don't get the vaccine. They both acted like that didn't bother them and one of them said they will take the tests.  They both are against/suspicious of taking the vaccine and even tried to say that they believed it was being spread more among the vaccinated. And I told them it wasn't and mentioned the stats of people being hospitalized which is overwhelmingly unvaccinated people.

It's going to be something to see what happens when unvaccinated people have to start taking tests regularly. I wouldn't be surprised if it's revealed some of them have COVID and they have to miss work. At some point I wonder if the regular testing will wear on them and they might change their mind and get the vaccine.

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I just want to preface this by saying everyone has a right to choose to get vaccinated or not, and should be based on that individual. With that said why isnt there national attention on the breakthrough covid-19 deaths.

https://www.wsmv.com/call_4_action/break...3aae4.html

https://www.njspotlight.com/2021/07/covi...b-mask-up/

Because 800 deaths out of 160 million vaccinations is within the expected range?

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Because 800 deaths out of 160 million vaccinations is within the expected range?

It is a small group of people, yes absolutely but my concern is why the media is not quickly drawing attention to the people who are dying who received the vaccine? Is the Delta now able to fight certain microbodies or tcells the vaccine was able to repair? It may be too soon but for me it is yet another red flag to getting the vaccine.

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Whether someone has a liberal, or conservative viewpoint, a authoritative figure should not lock a thread for the sole purpose to get the last word in all the while prohibiting someone else from being able to respond.

Had the democrats not cheated and stole the election and the Trump admin was able to continue their good work, this vaccine wouldn't have been politicized like it has been, and there would be more buy in. The democrats "winning" the election and politicizing this thing from the beginning is the worst thing that could have happened for this country.

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Because 800 deaths out of 160 million vaccinations is within the expected range?

It is a small group of people, yes absolutely but my concern is why the media is not quickly drawing attention to the people who are dying who received the vaccine? Is the Delta now able to fight certain microbodies or tcells the vaccine was able to repair? It may be too soon but for me it is yet another red flag to getting the vaccine.

We knew months ago that the vaccine is between 90 and 95% effective. So of the 160,000,000 people who've gotten it, it's expected that it won't work for somewhere between 8,000,000 and 16,000,000 of them. While the individual deaths are awful, that just 800 people have died from "breakthrough" cases should be seen as a positive. I've seen it mentioned several places, but frankly it's not news.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Had the democrats not cheated and stole the election and the Trump admin was able to continue their good work, this vaccine wouldn't have been politicized like it has been, and there would be more buy in. The democrats "winning" the election and politicizing this thing from the beginning is the worst thing that could have happened for this country.

Meh, both sides imo politicized this. The GOP using the "my body my rights" argument, and the left using the "trust the science", and "mask up" argument. 

I just with both the Trump and Biden administration would have gave a more informative options. Educate the public on the necessity of taking the necessary vitamins/supplements, fruits and veggies and other natural herbs to strengthen the body to be able to handle this disease. Or educated the public on the vaccine method. I feel both admins put all their eggs in the basket with the one way method.

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Whether someone has a liberal, or conservative viewpoint, a authoritative figure should not lock a thread for the sole purpose to get the last word in all the while prohibiting someone else from being able to respond.

Had the democrats not cheated and stole the election and the Trump admin was able to continue their good work, this vaccine wouldn't have been politicized like it has been, and there would be more buy in. The democrats "winning" the election and politicizing this thing from the beginning is the worst thing that could have happened for this country.

Meh, both sides imo politicized this. The GOP using the "my body my rights" argument, and the left using the "trust the science", and "mask up" argument. 

I just with both the Trump and Biden administration would have gave a more informative options. Educate the public on the necessity of taking the necessary vitamins/supplements, fruits and veggies and other natural herbs to strengthen the body to be able to handle this disease. Or educated the public on the vaccine method. I feel both admins put all their eggs in the basket with the one way method.

Pfizer withheld announcement of their vaccine until after the election. There is no way this was a coincidence. It was perfectly coordinated to produce the most political damage on Trump as possible. They lost any trust I had left at this moment.

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Meh, both sides imo politicized this. The GOP using the "my body my rights" argument, and the left using the "trust the science", and "mask up" argument. 

I just with both the Trump and Biden administration would have gave a more informative options. Educate the public on the necessity of taking the necessary vitamins/supplements, fruits and veggies and other natural herbs to strengthen the body to be able to handle this disease. Or educated the public on the vaccine method. I feel both admins put all their eggs in the basket with the one way method.

Pfizer withheld announcement of their vaccine until after the election. There is no way this was a coincidence. It was perfectly coordinated to produce the most political damage on Trump as possible. They lost any trust I had left at this moment.

It seems the real trust problem is the result of rampant political conspiracy theory.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Had the democrats not cheated and stole the election and the Trump admin was able to continue their good work, this vaccine wouldn't have been politicized like it has been, and there would be more buy in. The democrats "winning" the election and politicizing this thing from the beginning is the worst thing that could have happened for this country.

Meh, both sides imo politicized this. The GOP using the "my body my rights" argument, and the left using the "trust the science", and "mask up" argument. 

I just with both the Trump and Biden administration would have gave a more informative options. Educate the public on the necessity of taking the necessary vitamins/supplements, fruits and veggies and other natural herbs to strengthen the body to be able to handle this disease. Or educated the public on the vaccine method. I feel both admins put all their eggs in the basket with the one way method.

I think that overall people did provide enough information for people regarding the vaccine. At this point, there isn't a whole lot more that can be done. Besides possibly mandate like some jobs are and/or do restrictions/incentives to try and get more people to get it. And at this point, if some/possibly a lot of people haven't gotten it, they aren't going to get it anytime soon. They've made their minds up, at least for the time being.

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Pfizer withheld announcement of their vaccine until after the election. There is no way this was a coincidence. It was perfectly coordinated to produce the most political damage on Trump as possible. They lost any trust I had left at this moment.

It seems the real trust problem is the result of rampant political conspiracy theory.

https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-releas...te-against

Yeah, November 9th. Nothing to see here.

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It seems the real trust problem is the result of rampant political conspiracy theory.

https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-releas...te-against

Yeah, November 9th. Nothing to see here.

Pfizer did not have access to the trial data until November 5th and it was not unblinded until the 8th. So yes, nothing to see here.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/fact...267242002/

Pfizer lacked access to its trial data until after Election Day and could not have known or released the results prior to that. 


Albert Bourla, Pfizer's CEO, told Axios that the data came in on Nov. 5 or 6, after Election Day on Nov. 3. "From the time that the data comes in, before the committee meets, some people need to prepare for each case," he said. "So there's a lot of work that needs to be done. But we did it with the speed of light." As a result, the soonest the independent monitoring committee could analyze the data from the 94 cases was on Nov. 8, after Biden had been declared president-elect. "The independent experts’ committee, independent from Pfizer, that unblinded the data and reviewed, they met at 11 and they finished their meeting at 1:30," Bourla said. Bourla himself then learned of the results on at 2 p.m. Pfizer announced the news to the public the following morning.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

I just want to preface this by saying everyone has a right to choose to get vaccinated or not, and should be based on that individual. With that said why isnt there national attention on the breakthrough covid-19 deaths.

https://www.wsmv.com/call_4_action/break...3aae4.html

https://www.njspotlight.com/2021/07/covi...b-mask-up/

Because 800 deaths out of 160 million vaccinations is within the expected range?

I can appreciate this argument, but not in the context of mandatory vaccination. If you've had Covid, there is no reason to take that extra risk. Deaths are almost certainly underreported (but I accept that it's minimal), but there are also people who have serious side-effects to a tune much larger than 800. There is no reason to risk it. Especially not for a virus that is easily survivable for most people. Again, and I can't reiterate this enough, if you want to get it, get it. But the pressure on the individual is insane. The suppression of scientific dissent is not helping.

And, again, I emphasize that we do not yet have a long-term study on this vaccine. Do you not even think it's plausible that there could be serious effects down the road? That's not even a possibility to you? You are going to need a control group if/when there is ever a problem down the road. This alone is enough of a reason not to do a global roll-out, imo, but whatever. 

And to the point of carrying 40% less viral load, I don't think that matters. According to the experts, you only need to be in close proximity of someone with the delta variant for 1 minute to contract this disease. So, great... I get an additional 24 seconds standing next to the vaccinated. Whoopity doo. There is no way this thing is spreading through Jax the way it us unless a significant amount of spread can happen through the vaccinated. We have 50% vaccinated PLUS everyone that's already had it PLUS the people who have a naturally high resistance to it. Yet, it's still spreading. Just food for thought.

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Because 800 deaths out of 160 million vaccinations is within the expected range?

I can appreciate this argument, but not in the context of mandatory vaccination. If you've had Covid, there is no reason to take that extra risk. Deaths are almost certainly underreported (but I accept that it's minimal), but there are also people who have serious side-effects to a tune much larger than 800. There is no reason to risk it. Especially not for a virus that is easily survivable for most people. Again, and I can't reiterate this enough, if you want to get it, get it. But the pressure on the individual is insane. The suppression of scientific dissent is not helping.

And, again, I emphasize that we do not yet have a long-term study on this vaccine. Do you not even think it's plausible that there could be serious effects down the road? That's not even a possibility to you? You are going to need a control group if/when there is ever a problem down the road. This alone is enough of a reason not to do a global roll-out, imo, but whatever. 

And to the point of carrying 40% less viral load, I don't think that matters. According to the experts, you only need to be in close proximity of someone with the delta variant for 1 minute to contract this disease. So, great... I get an additional 24 seconds standing next to the vaccinated. Whoopity doo. There is no way this thing is spreading through Jax the way it us unless a significant amount of spread can happen through the vaccinated. We have 50% vaccinated PLUS everyone that's already had it PLUS the people who have a naturally high resistance to it. Yet, it's still spreading. Just food for thought.

1. Yes, it's plausible though unlikely. I've not said otherwise. Will you accept that as well?
2. It was minimum 40%. Another study I read somewhere yesterday said 65% with viral shedding and complete resolution multiple days shorter. Both of which contribute to reducing the amount of virus in the environment.
3. Yes, it's still spreading as has been repeatedly stated it would until we reach the herd immunity %. And who is being overwhelmingly the most impacted by this? The unvaccinated.
4. My mother lost a good friend today to the Delta. His wife who also has it was moved into hospice this evening and probably won't last another 24 hours. I'd say it would've been worth it. But at least tt was finally enough to convince her to go to Publix and get inoculated.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Had the democrats not cheated and stole the election and the Trump admin was able to continue their good work, this vaccine wouldn't have been politicized like it has been, and there would be more buy in. The democrats "winning" the election and politicizing this thing from the beginning is the worst thing that could have happened for this country.

Lol...what?  Trump politicized the virus, the WHO, the CDC, Fauci....there's no way anyone is this dense.

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Had the democrats not cheated and stole the election and the Trump admin was able to continue their good work, this vaccine wouldn't have been politicized like it has been, and there would be more buy in. The democrats "winning" the election and politicizing this thing from the beginning is the worst thing that could have happened for this country.

So if Trump were still president, you would have gotten the vaccine?

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Had the democrats not cheated and stole the election and the Trump admin was able to continue their good work, this vaccine wouldn't have been politicized like it has been, and there would be more buy in. The democrats "winning" the election and politicizing this thing from the beginning is the worst thing that could have happened for this country.

So if Trump were still president, you would have gotten the vaccine?

If this pandemic happened in 2017, it would have been history by 2019. The politicization of this virus and vaccine have caused hundreds of thousands of more deaths than needed to occur.. As far as your question, I would have been more likely to take it had it not been politicized. 

For the record, I am not some cowboy out there. I will still mask up in crowded areas and still actively keep my distance from people in public.

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I can appreciate this argument, but not in the context of mandatory vaccination. If you've had Covid, there is no reason to take that extra risk. Deaths are almost certainly underreported (but I accept that it's minimal), but there are also people who have serious side-effects to a tune much larger than 800. There is no reason to risk it. Especially not for a virus that is easily survivable for most people. Again, and I can't reiterate this enough, if you want to get it, get it. But the pressure on the individual is insane. The suppression of scientific dissent is not helping.

And, again, I emphasize that we do not yet have a long-term study on this vaccine. Do you not even think it's plausible that there could be serious effects down the road? That's not even a possibility to you? You are going to need a control group if/when there is ever a problem down the road. This alone is enough of a reason not to do a global roll-out, imo, but whatever. 

And to the point of carrying 40% less viral load, I don't think that matters. According to the experts, you only need to be in close proximity of someone with the delta variant for 1 minute to contract this disease. So, great... I get an additional 24 seconds standing next to the vaccinated. Whoopity doo. There is no way this thing is spreading through Jax the way it us unless a significant amount of spread can happen through the vaccinated. We have 50% vaccinated PLUS everyone that's already had it PLUS the people who have a naturally high resistance to it. Yet, it's still spreading. Just food for thought.

1. Yes, it's plausible though unlikely. I've not said otherwise. Will you accept that as well?
2. It was minimum 40%. Another study I read somewhere yesterday said 65% with viral shedding and complete resolution multiple days shorter. Both of which contribute to reducing the amount of virus in the environment.
3. Yes, it's still spreading as has been repeatedly stated it would until we reach the herd immunity %. And who is being overwhelmingly the most impacted by this? The unvaccinated.
4. My mother lost a good friend today to the Delta. His wife who also has it was moved into hospice this evening and probably won't last another 24 hours. I'd say it would've been worth it. But at least tt was finally enough to convince her to go to Publix and get inoculated.

1. Why do you think it's unlikely? It's an unknown. We don't know what the results will be. I can point to plenty of vaccines/medicines that ended up having problems down the road, and I'm sure their producers meant well enough by it.
2. This is a bad time to be defending this position: ‘The war has changed’: Internal CDC document urges new messaging, warns delta infections likely more severe - The Washington Post
3. Don't disagree. However, people should be able to choose how they want to play their part in herd immunity. Looking at the data, I still prefer to roll the dice with the virus. 
4. Sorry to hear that. Still, considering what I've already mentioned, people are not dying at a high rate from this. People have a greater chance of dying from heart disease. That doesn't stop others from eating cheeseburgers.

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Had the democrats not cheated and stole the election 

 They did not steal the election. President trump lost it because of a few factors. He had it in the bag to win the electoral college but he was too stubborn to make any adjustments. Hubris strikes again just as it has through out history. I can list a couple of things at least President Trump could have done different and he would have won. He lost it. Biden won but it was from president trump shooting himself in the foot a few key times. 

As far as covid... 


It's so stupid. What's the big freaking deal? Just wear the stupid mask until this corona crap is hopefully finally over. I dont love it, but I put my jaguars mask on and represent everyday. It's no big deal. As far as people in Congress go, they should be setting a good example. Working folks dont have time for their dumb political games. That goes for democrats or Republicans

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